Opening gambits in EU / UK exit negotiations;

[stevewinn]

2 minutes ago, RAyMO said:

Yes, but if the money doesn't materialize - it will be superseded for example by a new emergency budget. Putting 600m into the NHS largely funded from increased taxes and borrowing (yes that is under consideration) is NOT the same as Brexit providing that 600m or even 350m. Apparently there is a dispute between the treasury and no. 10 on how the 600m will be funded - I would not all be surprised if that was a difference over the likely size of any Brexit dividend. 

How will the money not materialise its our money, were in control of it. - It will materialise in the same way it does when we hand it over to the EU.

Edited June 17, 2018 by stevewinn

[RAyMO]

8 minutes ago, stevewinn said:

How will the money not materialise its our money, where in control of it. - It will materialise in the same way it does when we hand it over to the EU.

A Net dividend will not materialize if tax receipts or lower than expected.

Even with that the expenditure will still mean that spending in the NHS for the next 5 years will be increasing slower than it has done historically - We are not even playing catch up after years of austerity. This last point has sod all to do with Brexit and all to do with Tory policy.

Have you tried to get an appointment with a GP recently - or have been given a date for an operation - or sat in an A&E waiting room. None of these experiences reflect well on the NHS at the minute.

Edited June 17, 2018 by RAyMO

[stevewinn]

9 minutes ago, RAyMO said:

A Net dividend will not materialize if tax receipts or lower than expected.

Even with that the expenditure will still mean that spending in the NHS for the next 5 years will be increasing slower than it has done historically - We are not even playing catch up after years of austerity. This last point has sod all to do with Brexit and all to do with Tory policy.

Have you tried to get an appointment with a GP recently - or have been given a date for an operation - or sat in an A&E waiting room. None of these experiences reflect well on the NHS at the minute.

The money has materialised for our payments to the EU regardless of the economic situation. please tell me during the worst financial crash in history did the UK reduce or miss its annual payments to the EU. No is the answer, in fact they increased.

Austerity which is another debate entirely.

As for the Appointment with Doctor. not recently try and keep myself healthy, But did have to go the dentist, got an appointment same morning. as for NHS, needed a Ambulance for my Auntie 999 job, 3 minutes arrived. passed through the A&E within 1 hour. in assessment ward for 5 hours and was moved onto a ward, sadly 18 hours later my auntie passed away. Showed the NHS at its best the professionalism and treatment they gave to her. (this happened in the last month)

 

 

 

[RAyMO]

Just seeing the retorts now on the news sites - basically arguing as I have that the net cost of leaving will likely mean there is no dividend and May  saying there will be, is "taking people for fools" (a Tory MP btw) and that the money for the NHS is not sufficient to bring it up to where it was in even 2010. Basically the pool of money available to government after Brexit is likely to be less, according to most economists, at least for a while than it is now (even after you deduct payment to the EU). So potentially no Brexit dividend.  If you stop spending money on something that was contributing to your economic well being and that economic well being drops more than you were paying, you are worse off - less to spend on everything - unless as is being suggested you Tax and Borrow more.

Off course you believe that we are going to make trade deals with the counties that aren't part of the EU wider trade agreements and somehow come out on top - that is and always will be where we differ, until reality proves one or other of us right.

I am sorry to read about your aunt.

My own experience (through family not personally) 2 weeks or more for GP appointment- 23 hours on hospital trolley waiting for admittance to a bed after 5 hours sitting in A&E, 90 weeks to see a consultant (we paid for that and the consultant informed us that the hospital had not allocated priority correctly and it should never have been that long, now waiting to see when the how long it be for and operation. 

Edited June 17, 2018 by RAyMO

[keithisco]

3 hours ago, RAyMO said:

Just seeing the retorts now on the news sites - basically arguing as I have that the net cost of leaving will likely mean there is no dividend and May  saying there will be, is "taking people for fools" (a Tory MP btw) and that the money for the NHS is not sufficient to bring it up to where it was in even 2010. Basically the pool of money available to government after Brexit is likely to be less, according to most economists, at least for a while than it is now (even after you deduct payment to the EU). So potentially no Brexit dividend.  If you stop spending money on something that was contributing to your economic well being and that economic well being drops more than you were paying, you are worse off - less to spend on everything - unless as is being suggested you Tax and Borrow more.

Off course you believe that we are going to make trade deals with the counties that aren't part of the EU wider trade agreements and somehow come out on top - that is and always will be where we differ, until reality proves one or other of us right.

I am sorry to read about your aunt.

My own experience (through family not personally) 2 weeks or more for GP appointment- 23 hours on hospital trolley waiting for admittance to a bed after 5 hours sitting in A&E, 90 weeks to see a consultant (we paid for that and the consultant informed us that the hospital had not allocated priority correctly and it should never have been that long, now waiting to see when the how long it be for and operation. 

I suppose we could re-hash the old arguments about the millions of suddenly arriving EU immigrants that were impossible to accommodate (all calculations were an order of magnitude LOWER than the reality) within the NHS structures that had taken decades to build.

Lets not forget that imports WILL become cheaper all round because the UK will not have to levy Tariffs any more (unless we want to). We will not have to levy Tariffs on any automotive parts from the EU, unless we want to, but of course, the Commission intent on revenge will insist on no reciprocity in this area and WILL impose Tariffs and bring a swathe of unemployment to its remaining 27 members.

Anecdotally there are are myriad stories of exceptionally good to exceptionally poor NHS practises, yet it has recently been rated as the best service in the World.

[RAyMO]

48 minutes ago, keithisco said:

Anecdotally there are are myriad stories of exceptionally good to exceptionally poor NHS practises, yet it has recently been rated as the best service in the World

Don't disagree - I want it stay that way.

For myriad of reasons there will still be tariffs at some level despite ideological wishes for there to be none.

[keithisco]

13 minutes ago, RAyMO said:

Don't disagree - I want it stay that way.

For myriad of reasons there will still be tariffs at some level despite ideological wishes for there to be none.

I agree, there will be tariffs in areas, and I think they will largely be reciprocal. Realistically, until wages are the same around the World (will never happen) there is always the opportunity to unfairly undercut production costs on a Regional basis. I think a tariff-free approach should be a target rather than an ideological wish

Edited June 17, 2018 by keithisco

[stevewinn]

4 hours ago, RAyMO said:

Just seeing the retorts now on the news sites - basically arguing as I have that the net cost of leaving will likely mean there is no dividend and May  saying there will be, is "taking people for fools" (a Tory MP btw) and that the money for the NHS is not sufficient to bring it up to where it was in even 2010. Basically the pool of money available to government after Brexit is likely to be less, according to most economists, at least for a while than it is now (even after you deduct payment to the EU). So potentially no Brexit dividend.  If you stop spending money on something that was contributing to your economic well being and that economic well being drops more than you were paying, you are worse off - less to spend on everything - unless as is being suggested you Tax and Borrow more.

Off course you believe that we are going to make trade deals with the counties that aren't part of the EU wider trade agreements and somehow come out on top - that is and always will be where we differ, until reality proves one or other of us right.

I am sorry to read about your aunt.

My own experience (through family not personally) 2 weeks or more for GP appointment- 23 hours on hospital trolley waiting for admittance to a bed after 5 hours sitting in A&E, 90 weeks to see a consultant (we paid for that and the consultant informed us that the hospital had not allocated priority correctly and it should never have been that long, now waiting to see when the how long it be for and operation. 

How much did it cost the UK to join the EU in the first place?

Also you believe there could be a financial loss having based that assumption on?, you must also accept there could be a financial benefit.

to date the models, experts and economists have been defied by the economic performance. - statistics from already discredited civil servants won't convince any brexit voter. Remainers need to come up with a new project fear.

On the EU bring economic benefit, as you put it "If you stop spending money on something that was contributing to your economic well being and that economic well being drops more than you were paying, you are worse off - less to spend on everything"  - what is the figure put on that economic benefit? according to the EU themselves our single market membership added just over 1% to our economy over the whole time we were in it – people wrongly assumes that membership of the single market and customs union has been wholly kind to the UK, and that if we just leave we will be worse off. The facts of our past membership do not prove this mindset. As I have often pointed out on these fourms, our growth rate was faster in the years before we joined, than after we joined. There was no benefit or acceleration of growth when the single market was completed.

in fact no-one mentions the 5% loss of GDP to our economy caused by membership of the European Exchange Rate Mechanism, which the EU doesn't include in it study to reach the 1% figure. You also need to take into account the £12 bn net a year contribution or cost, which is a drag of around 0.6% on our GDP every year. Also if we were to factor in the VAT collected here in the UK on behalf of the EU then its a drag on our economy of around 1.2%. If we spent that all at home instead that would give us a welcome boost. remember that 1% figure is the EU own. food for thought.

[Space Commander Travis]

On 14/06/2018 at 5:20 PM, RAyMO said:

I have stated many times I believe it will be an economic disaster for the country.

In what way exactly? This "90% of trad is with the EU!!" which his vague at best and very probably a great big fib, or anything more specific? 

[RAyMO]

1 hour ago, stevewinn said:

Remainers need to come up with a new project fear.

there is no fear project, Brexit is happening - then we will all see.

[Space Commander Travis]

12 hours ago, RAyMO said:

there is no fear project,

No? People who say things like "it'll be an economic disaster! " seem to be engaged on one.  

[RAyMO]

12 minutes ago, Vlad the Mighty said:

No? People who say things like "it'll be an economic disaster! " seem to be engaged on one.  

No project, merely the truth as I see it. Another predictive report featured today and like majority of the others it claims - any form of Brexit will lead to higher costs for the consumer in the UK.And while that may not be an issue for some, for many families it is a real threat. 

I am used to living in a divided society where people see things differently - I am quite happy to believe it will be a disaster whilst accepting and respecting that others believe it will be the best thing since sliced bread.

The only fear is that on one side we have the known - on the other side the unknown.

Edited June 18, 2018 by RAyMO

[Eldorado]

18 hours ago, keithisco said:

Anecdotally there are are myriad stories of exceptionally good to exceptionally poor NHS practises, yet it has recently been rated as the best service in the World.

OPEN LETTER

As staff who have been pleading with this Government for many years to adequately fund the NHS, we welcome the news that it is promising to increase funding.

Though the headlines are that it is 3.4%, that is not for the whole NHS budget – the real increase is only 3%.

Less than 4% means the NHS will continue to deteriorate and our patients continue to suffer.

The NHS needed a funding increase that would ensure that never again will we see the scenes in our hospitals and A&Es of needless suffering and tragic deaths.

Of patients waiting on hospital trolleys unable to get a bed or of ambulances stacked in queues unable to hand over their patients.

Never again do we want to hear that there are no mental health beds for seriously ill patients, or that the only one available is hundreds of miles away.

And that fewer nurses and doctors end their shifts in tears, exhausted because of overwork and understaffing.

The NHS needs to invest in general practice so people can get timely appointments with their GP, and they have enough time for their patients.

We want to see our cancer treatment times and waiting times for planned care improving, not deteriorating as they have done over recent years.

There must be investment in public health and prevention instead of cuts. We want an end to the shame of having some of the worst child death rates in Europe.

We desperately need serious workforce planning not the shambolic situation we’ve had for years leaving us with 100,000 vacancies.

This and much more is what we want for our NHS. More importantly, it’s what our patients need.

With an offer that falls short of what is needed this Government has shown once again that it can’t be trusted to care for the NHS.

Yours

SENIOR NHS CONSULTANTS, PROFESSORS, GPs, JUNIOR DOCTORS AND NURSES

Signatories:

    Professor John Feehally, Consultant Nephrologist, Leicester
    Professor Aneez Esmail, Professor of General Practice, University of Manchester
    Professor Katrina Wyatt, University of Exeter Medical School, Exeter.
    Professor Geoff Gill, Emeritus Professor of International Medicine, University of Liverpool
    Annie Mitchell, Associate Professor, Plymouth and Clinical Psychologist, Exeter.
    Dr Kailash Chand OBE, president of the British Medical Association,
    Dr Jacky Davis, Consultant radiologist, London
    Dr Alison Gill, Consultant Respiratory Physician, York
    Dr Lesley Kay, Consultant Rheumatologist, Newcastle upon Tyne
    Dr ASM Hopson, Consultant Anaesthetist, Bristol
    Dr Mark Butler, Consultant Paediatrician, London
    Dr Mona Kamal, Consultant Psychiatrist, London
    Dr Kevin O’Kane, Consultant in Acute Internal Medicine, London
    Dr Tony O’Sullivan, retired consultant paediatrician
    Dr Alex Scott-Samuel, retired Public Health Consultant and senior Lecturer, Liverpool
    Dr John Puntis, consultant paediatrician, Leeds Teaching Hospital NHS Trust
    Dr Bob Gill, GP, London
    Dr Aislinn Macklin-Doherty, Secretary Health Campaigns Together, Clinical Research Fellow, London
    Dr Helen Murrell, GP, Gateshead
    Dr Gary Marlowe, GP, Hackney, London
    Dr Youssef El-Gingihy, GP and author, London
    Dr. David Bossano, GP, Exeter
    Dr Louise Irvine, GP, Lewisham, London
    Dr David Wrigley, GP, Carnforth, Lancashire and chair of Doctors in Unite
    Dr Kambiz Boomla, Senior Clinical Lecturer and GP, Queen Mary University of London
    Dr Jim Cole, GP, Tower Hamlets
    Dr Pam Wortley, Sunderland
    Dr Tony Waterston, Newcastle-Upon-Tyne
    Dr Elizabeth Paul, GP, Lewisham, London
    Dr Marta Buszewicz, GP in Camden, north London
    Dr Sally Walker, North Tyneside
    Dr Martha Leigh, London
    Dr John Sharvill, GP, Kent
    Dr Grant Ingrams, GP, Leicester
    Dr Kathryn McAdam Freud, GP, Southwark, London
    Dr Jessica Sibson, GP, Sheffield
    Dr Jonathan Fluxman, GP, Paddington London
    Dr. Steven Ford, Haydon Bridge
    Dr Phillip Bennett-Richards, GP, Tower Hamlets
    Dr Benjamin Robinson, Psychiatrist, London
    Dr Sally Johnston, GP, Lymington, Hants
    Dr Sara Ritchie, GP, City & Hackney, London
    Dr Anita Patel, GP at St Andrews Medical Practice, Whetstone.
    Dr Louise Pealing, GP and Clinical Research Fellow, University of Oxford
    Dr Ravindra Nayar, GP, Doncaster
    Dr Liz Keller, GP, Killingworth, North Tyneside
    Dr David Davies, GP, Islington
    Dr Jennie Read, GP, Tower Hamlets
    Dr Khalid Ismael, GP, Lewisham, London
    Dr Ben Hart , GP, Chrisp Street Health Practice, London
    Dr Kirsten Shirke, GP, Limehouse Practice London
    Dr Dave Tomson, GP, North shields
    Dr. Lauren Cooper-Jones, GP, Bristol
    Dr Surinder Singh, Senior Lecturer UCL and GP, Lewisham, London
    Dr Rob Corker, GP, Sheffield
    Dr Jane Logan, GP, Vauxhall, London
    Dr Jackie Applebee GP, Tower Hamlets.
    Dr Coral Jones GP London
    Dr Terri Eynon, GP, Leicestershire
    Dr Hubertus von Blumenthal, GP, Gamlingay, Cambridgeshire
    Dr Wolfgang Walter, GP, Bristol
    Dr David Jenner, GP, Cullompton Devon
    Dr Andy Tate, GP, Kilburn Park Medical Centre, London.
    Dr Helen Farebrother, GP, East London
    Dr Tim Dowson, GP, Leeds
    Dr Richard Morrison, retired GP, north London
    Dr Manju Navani, Associate specialist, Sexual Health, Manchester Foundation Trust
    Jacqui Berry, ITU sister, London,
    Dr Samantha Batt-Rawden, Emergency medicine doctor, West Sussex
    Dr James Haddock, Medical Doctor, West Midlands
    Dr Veronika Wagner, Registered medical practitioner, Hampshire
    Dr Sebastian Hormaeche, Anaesthetic Doctor, Cambridge
    Dr Ellen McCourt, Emergency Medicine Registrar, Yorkshire
    Dr Jessica Potter, Respiratory Registrar and Clinical Lecturer, London
    Dr Tom Yates, registrar, St George’s Hospital, London
    Dr Karam Sarsan, junior doctor, London
    Rachel Tribe, junior Clinical Psychologist, London
    Dr Julia Patterson, Psychiatry junior doctor, London
    Danielle Tiplady, Nurse, London
    Michael Coram, Nurse, London
    Anthony Johnson, Nurse, London
    Dan Langley, Mental Health Nurse, London
    Annique Simpson, Community Nurse, London
    Maria Gilroy, nurse
    Dan Langley, mental health nurse
    Paul Moloney, counselling psycologist, Royal Shrewsbury Hospital
    Hayley Higson, Clinical Psychologist, North West England
    Dr Hannah Istead , Clinical Psychologist , Bath
    Dr Rachel Barcroft , Clinical Health Psychologist, Royal Preston Hospital
    Dr Lana Renny - clinical psychologist (NHS, Islington, London)
    Mr Rishi Dhir, Orthopaedic Surgeon, UK
    Dr Ben White, gastroenterology doctor, Wessex
    Kathy Cruise, dirstict nurse, London
    Dr Viyaasan Mahalingasivam, nephrology registrar, Royal London Hospital
    Professor Paramjit Gill, GP and Professor of general Practice at the University of Warwick
    Dr Ajay Sharma, consultant paediatrician, Guy’s and St Thomas Hospital
    Dr Penny Milner, GP, Lewisham, London
    Dr Ishani Salpadoru, GP, Kilburn, London
    Dr Pete Campbell, specialist trainee in medicine, Newcastle
    Dr Helen Salisbury, GP, Oxford
    Dr Harriet Dixon, GP, Exeter
    Mr Rishi Dhir, Orthopaedic Surgeon, UK
    Dr Ben White, gastroenterology doctor, Wessex
    Kathy Cruise, dirstict nurse, London
    Dr Viyaasan Mahalingasivam, nephrology registrar, Royal London Hospital
    Professor Paramjit Gill, GP and Professor of general Practice at the University of Warwick
    Dr Ajay Sharma, consultant paediatrician, Guy’s and St Thomas Hospital
    Dr Penny Milner, GP, Lewisham, London
    Dr Ishani Salpadoru, GP, Kilburn, London
    Dr Pete Campbell, specialist trainee in medicine, Newcastle
    Dr Helen Salisbury, GP, Oxford
    Dr Harriet Dixon, GP, Exeter
    Dr Lauren Gavaghan, consultant psychiatrist, Bristol
    Dr James Crane, clinical research fellow, London
    Dr Fionna Martin, medical registrar, London

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/100-senior-nhs-doctors-nurses-12731132

[stevewinn]

Their arguing over a difference of 0.4% and ideal target is 4% increase. what their open letter tells me is we'd be better off privatising the NHS as its clear its unaffordable. The budget is already £114Billion (England) up from £33 Billion in 1975. so in 2050 it'll be in the region of £195Bn. Wow.

[RAyMO]

28 minutes ago, stevewinn said:

Their arguing over a difference of 0.4% and ideal target is 4% increase

don't know how you arrived at this.The headline figure is 3.4% which is 0.6% less than the 4% needed to stand still. The 4% is not an 'ideal', it is what is needed to prevent further deterioration.

Taking into account that the 3.4 is not across the whole health service they are saying the real rise is 3% or 1% per year below what is needed to standstill.

Interestingly the Minister this morning said the increase would bring us in line with French expenditure on the health service. Why he thought that was important I have no idea.

 

[stevewinn]

40 minutes ago, seanjo said:

The NHS does need a new way to pay for it, I'd look at the German or French models.

part private part state?

20 minutes ago, RAyMO said:

don't know how you arrived at this.The headline figure is 3.4% which is 0.6% less than the 4% needed to stand still. The 4% is not an 'ideal', it is what is needed to prevent further deterioration.

Taking into account that the 3.4 is not across the whole health service they are saying the real rise is 3% or 1% per year below what is needed to standstill.

Interestingly the Minister this morning said the increase would bring us in line with French expenditure on the health service. Why he thought that was important I have no idea.

 

The open letter was in response to the Govt. 3.4% which they sate is really a rise of 3% so arguing over 0.4% (official figures)

The 4% is the target figure put forward by those who composed the letter and is separate issue altogether. (aspirational figure)

[keithisco]

In yet another example of the EU Commission shooting itself in the foot to exact its "Terrible Revenge" on the UK for daring to leave the EU:

Quote

 

The UK will be kicked out of the European Arrest Warrant deal after Brexit, EU chief negotiator Michel Barnier has said.

The warrant allows EU members to request the arrest and detention of criminals in other countries without extradition talks between them.

The UK wants to stay part of the system when it leaves the EU next March.

But Mr Barnier said the UK could not, because of its desire to leave the EU's court and free movement scheme...

...According to the National Crime Agency, other EU members requested the arrest of 14,279 UK-based suspects in 2015-6, up from 1,865 in 2004. The UK made 241 such requests in 2015-6, leading to 150 arrests.

Read More:

 

....could you even make up this self-harming position by the EU Commission?

[stevewinn]

The House of Lords again defeated the government over giving MPs a "meaningful vote" on the outcome of negotiations between the UK and the EU. this as now been returned to parliment for a second time, where MP's will vote for a third time. The word is the Govt will be defeated by the rebels. debate to start at 1pm. vote to take place 2:30pm.

Remain MP's think if they defeat the govt it will stop a no-deal scenario with the EU and thus prevent the UK from leaving as then the only way to leave is to have a deal with the EU, So, what's the incentive for the EU to negotiate? all they have to do is offer us no-deal and we remain part of the EU. and this is why the EU hasnt been negotiating with the UK in earnest, because the EU have been getting briefed by the countless remain and opposition MP's and Lords who've been holding private meetings with Barnier and his team. As a result Its the EU's belief that the UK will remain in the EU so no meaningful concessions have been made during these negotiations in case anything they agree to is then up for debate or reform once we remain. 

The EU will only take our leaving serious once the withdrawal Bill as been passed. until then the high stakes gamble by the EU who've played the strong hand based on this assumption. If this goes wrong for the EU it could collapse the whole thing. Theresa May now more than ever needs to hold her nerve, Its no wonder the EU agreed to the two year transition period, as if their high stakes gamble backfires it then gives the EU two years to do what they should have been doing during the current negotiating period.

Theresa May needs to fecking lead, hold her nerve and walk away with No-deal. pull the rug from under their feet and just watch the face on Barnier,Tusk, and Juncker et'al. they'll then come under extreme pressure from the member states who ask serious questions of the strategy, Theresa May should then say you had two years to negotiate and ballsed it up. No, Deal, No Payment, No transition.

 

 

[stevewinn]

PMQ's https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/live/bbctwo

[keithisco]

6 hours ago, stevewinn said:

PMQ's https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/live/bbctwo

Well...that didnt go the way it was "meant" to-Govt won easily in the end so a clean Brexit is still on the cards

[stevewinn]

15 hours ago, keithisco said:

Well...that didnt go the way it was "meant" to-Govt won easily in the end so a clean Brexit is still on the cards

It should now get passed and become Law, which means the Withdrawal Bill will end EU supremacy on 29th March 2019. lets see if the EU's negotiating position now changes as the fifth columnists are losing the battle, We'll most probably get another load of project fear stories, such as no planes flying, lorry's blocking up our ports. having to apply for a visa to go on holiday etc... 

[Unusual Tournament]

Airbus warns of threat to UK jobs from no-deal Brexit

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-airbus/airbus-warns-of-threat-to-uk-jobs-from-no-deal-brexit-idUSKBN1JH3EJ

[Unusual Tournament]

...it seems the tempo and regularity of the pro-Brexit posts on this forum are slowly grinding to a halt. with good reason. the reality is that nothing good in the short to medium term is coming to the UK from these brexit talks. which isn't surprising since day dot, not even the government was prepared with a coherent strategy. in fact they didn't even know what they wanted OR worse still how to negotiate for it. 

which brings me to Greece... there was an interesting article i read this morning about the negotiating tactics used by Greece and just how wrong it was to negotiate with a union as large as the EU. Greece should have just capitulated years ago and done the reforms asked of it and then some and maybe the pain that the Greek people endured would have been less and the economy wouldn't have contracted as much. in light of NO British politician (looking at May) being able to negotiate with the EU cause she doesn't know what she wants...maybe the UK should just tell the EU what they want and the EU can give them a list of can's and can't do and the British could put it to a vote and the UK can get on with the business of building a long term advantage outta it. 

time to have fresh elections and swallow your pride (much like the Greeks should have) and just make the best of a bad situation.  

[stevewinn]

11 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

...it seems the tempo and regularity of the pro-Brexit posts on this forum are slowly grinding to a halt. with good reason. the reality is that nothing good in the short to medium term is coming to the UK from these brexit talks. which isn't surprising since day dot, not even the government was prepared with a coherent strategy. in fact they didn't even know what they wanted OR worse still how to negotiate for it. 

which brings me to Greece... there was an interesting article i read this morning about the negotiating tactics used by Greece and just how wrong it was to negotiate with a union as large as the EU. Greece should have just capitulated years ago and done the reforms asked of it and then some and maybe the pain that the Greek people endured would have been less and the economy wouldn't have contracted as much. in light of NO British politician (looking at May) being able to negotiate with the EU cause she doesn't know what she wants...maybe the UK should just tell the EU what they want and the EU can give them a list of can's and can't do and the British could put it to a vote and the UK can get on with the business of building a long term advantage outta it. 

time to have fresh elections and swallow your pride (much like the Greeks should have) and just make the best of a bad situation.  

It's the same old crap captain risky and as been for the last two years, you yourself should know this better than most as you've posted every project fear article you can Google. As for airbus and the rest of them, remind me is this the same old airbus which was threatening to move production to China a few years back well before Brexit? 

But what do you expect from a Pan-european company. But then again if airbus want to go down this route then I'm afraid UK defence spending will have to stop, I mean their already losing 2.3billion on the Atlas A400m. UK defence purchasing of this plane is the only thing stopping the programe collapsing. 

GREECE: the article you was reading, was it written by someone in the room? If not read "adults in the room" by Yanis Varoufakis. 

I find it remarkable how you think a political grouping, a political body is greater than a sovereign nation state.

 

 

 

 

[keithisco]

22 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

Airbus warns of threat to UK jobs from no-deal Brexit

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-airbus/airbus-warns-of-threat-to-uk-jobs-from-no-deal-brexit-idUSKBN1JH3EJ

Would that be THIS Airbus that you are referring to?:

Quote

 

The World Trade Organization (WTO) has ruled that the European Union (EU) failed to comply with requests to end subsidies for Airbus.

The US Trade Representative (USTR) said the ruling in the dispute opens the way for placing tariffs on EU goods.

The USTR argued that European countries had given $22bn in state aid to Airbus to help launch its A380 and A350 jets, causing losses to US rival Boeing.

What does the ruling mean?

The decision authorises the US to retaliate against Europe with sanctions, the amount of which would be determined in another WTO decision.

Boeing said it is expecting the "largest-ever WTO authorisation of retaliatory tariffs" - which would mean billions of dollars.

The retaliation can apply to a range of goods and could come as early as 2019, analysts said.

Source:

...having already subjected the UK to USA tariff sanctions due to German and French profligacy over Steel and Aluminium production it looks like the illegal State subsidies to Airbus (France and Germany along with Spain) will once be paid for by those countries who are entirely blameless.

Edited June 23, 2018 by keithisco