'We could cripple you'. Brits warn Spain

[seeder]

Quote

 

Britain's Royal Navy is substantially weaker than it was during the Falklands War but could still "cripple" Spain, military experts have said.

Rear-Adml Chris Parry, a former director of operational capability at the Ministry of Defence,  has called on the Government to "appropriately" invest in Britain's military capacity if it wants to "talk big" over Gibraltar.

It came as a former Tory leader suggested that Theresa May would go to war with Spain to defend the sovereignty of the peninsular just as Margaret Thatcher did with the Falklands.

Lord Howard said the Prime Minister will stand by Gibraltar during Brexit talks amid claims of an EU “land grab” for the territory.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/02/britains-navy-far-weaker-falklands-could-still-cripple-spain/

 

 

[Mr.United_Nations]

The Spanish government mindset over Gibralyar is very poor. First of they have repeatedly accused the UK for not talking about gibraltar, 2nd Spanish ships have been harrasing public vessels and police vessels, 3rd lots of Spanish people work in Gibraltar, 4th the Spanish government does not care what the people of gibraltar want.

 

5th Spain has no respect to Catalonia and harrrasing them too. Spain has enclaves and exclaves in Africa, which Morrocans want back

[Duke Wellington]

I think one or two of our Lords will be getting their P45s in the post this week.

Those trying to hysterically turn this into WW3.

[godnodog]

Simple, UK should state that until Spain returns Ceuta to Portugal or gives it to Morocco, plus returns Olivença to Portugal, ther will be no talks.

Edited April 3, 2017 by godnodog

[stevewinn]

I think the Media are over hyping it,- Lord Howard was stressing how strongly the UK is committed to Gibraltar. all this talk of war etc.... is complete rubbish. it plays right into the hands of the hysterical media. - though sending a message to the fleet to sink any Spanish flagged vessel would be like the good old days. el draco

 

 

 

 

[Space Commander Travis]

Is this as well as "deterring" Putin and "blitzing" ISIS?

[Space Commander Travis]

my picture seems to have disappeared.  

 

Edited April 3, 2017 by Manfred von Dreidecker

[Duke Wellington]

7 minutes ago, Manfred von Dreidecker said:

Is this as well as "deterring" Putin and "blitzing" ISIS?

Its not our Government saying these things.

Its the media trying to create sensationalist stories. And the occasional politician who feels left out of things or who wants to feel important giving their opinion. The Lord needs sacking if he has indeed said what the media claims he has ben saying.

It makes him come across as a lose cannon who goes off on rages totally disproportionate to the situation.

Edited April 3, 2017 by RabidMongoose

[Space Commander Travis]

As remarked in this other story http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/03/gibraltar-row-internet-reacted-war-spain-talk/, 

"Under the terms of Nato, we'd then have to go to war with ourselves"

"Meanwhile, in defence of Spain, the other Nato countries would have to attack Britain. And then, in defence of Britain, attack themselves"

 

 

"This is what Putin has been planning all along"

 

 

Edited April 3, 2017 by Manfred von Dreidecker

[Soccergirl13]

What is going on with the world these days that so many people are using the word "war" so easily. Haven't we learned anything from the past? 

Reading the news every day is like looking at little children on a playground fighting each other. 

[godnodog]

2 hours ago, Soccergirl13 said:

What is going on with the world these days that so many people are using the word "war" so easily. Haven't we learned anything from the past? 

Reading the news every day is like looking at little children on a playground fighting each other. 

This is what happens when journalists have to sell news, the one more hysterical sells more

[seeder]

while media may hype stories....Rear-Adml Parry actually said those words
 

Quote

 

However, he insisted that Britain's military capability "significantly" over-matches Spain's and that if it came to a war, the UK is - qualitatively - three times more powerful.  Our capacity to do them harm is far greater.

But he added: "We could cripple Spain in the medium term and I think the Americans would probably support us too. Spain should learn from history that it is never worth taking us on and that we could still singe the King of Spain’s beard”.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/02/britains-navy-far-weaker-falklands-could-still-cripple-spain/

 

 

[Space Commander Travis]

Who is this Adm Parry anyway, the UK's equivalent of Mad Dog McCain? Oh, Former director of operational capability at the Ministry of Defence

Actually what he did in fact say, and the headline is definitely journalistic spin, is "If the Government wants to talk big over Gibraltar, or indeed anywhere else, they have to invest appropriately in the military capacity to back that up."  So what he is in fact saying is that if the Government (or rather Michael Howard) are going to keep blustering about everything, then they ought to've thought about maintaining a reasonable all-round capability, which is a fair argument, I think. 

Anyway, here; if anyone wants to play Top Trumps, is 

: List of active Spanish Navy ships

As of 2016, there are approximately 78 vessels in service within the Navy, including minor auxiliary vessels. A breakdown includes; one amphibious assault ship (also used as an aircraft carrier), two amphibious transport docks, 11 frigates, three submarines, six mine countermeasure vessels, 23 patrol vessels and a number of auxiliary ships. The total displacement of the Spanish Navy is approximately 220,000 tonnes.^[11]

Edited April 3, 2017 by Manfred von Dreidecker

[Eldorado]

Remember HMS Coventry and HMS Sheffield?  Them was the days, eh?

[Unusual Tournament]

This Brexit thing doesn't seem to be panning out very well...

[Space Commander Travis]

6 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

This Brexit thing doesn't seem to be panning out very well...

You seem to have reverted to the smug one-liners, which is disappointing since you were recently making some reasonable reasoned comments. You do know that this is all a silly lot of bluster, mainly propagated buy Michael Howard, that no one is really taking seriously? 

[Frank Merton]

2 minutes ago, Manfred von Dreidecker said:

You seem to have reverted to the smug one-liners, which is disappointing since you were recently making some reasonable reasoned comments. You do know that this is all a silly lot of bluster, mainly propagated buy Michael Howard, that no one is really taking seriously? 

What he said was a perfectly obvious comment and your attempt to undermine its significance that way just makes you look underhanded.

That Spain would like to annex Gibraltar has been known for a long time.  It's kinda like Argentina and the Falcons or Russia and most of the countries around it or China and Mongolia.  Imperialism remains.  What the people in these countries want doesn't seem to matter.

[Space Commander Travis]

yes, that's all obvious.  But surely you must agree that the very idea of anyone even considerating war between two NATO countries (and NATO is nothing to do with the EU) is just too silly. What Adm Parry was saying, though, wasn't, if you read his comments, actually just silly bluster, but he was making a fair point that if Governments are going to "talk tough", they really ought to keep their armed forces up to a reasonable state of numbers and readiness or otherwise they'll look even more silly. 

 

 

[Frank Merton]

3 minutes ago, Manfred von Dreidecker said:

yes, that's all obvious.  But surely you must agree that the very idea of anyone even considerating war between two NATO countries (and NATO is nothing to do with the EU) is just too silly. What Adm Parry was saying, though, wasn't, if you read his comments, actually just silly bluster, but he was making a fair point that if Governments are going to "talk tough", they really ought to keep their armed forces up to a reasonable state of numbers and readiness or otherwise they'll look even more silly. 

 

 

Spain is a bit hypocritical considering its African colonies.  I don't doubt Britain would go to war were Spain to invade Gibraltar, and I think probably the rest of NATO would have to back Britain in such a case.  Of course Spain would have to be out of its gourd to do such a thing, but at the moment a lot of countries do seem out of their gourd.

As far as Britain's military capabilities go, compared to Spain's, I wonder.

[+and-then]

14 hours ago, Soccergirl13 said:

What is going on with the world these days that so many people are using the word "war" so easily. Haven't we learned anything from the past? 

Reading the news every day is like looking at little children on a playground fighting each other. 

Except these children have some of the deadliest weapons humanity has ever devised.  The last "great" war was over 70 years ago.  Like the WHO said - "People forget"

[Space Commander Travis]

21 minutes ago, Frank Merton said:

Spain is a bit hypocritical considering its African colonies.  I don't doubt Britain would go to war were Spain to invade Gibraltar, and I think probably the rest of NATO would have to back Britain in such a case.  Of course Spain would have to be out of its gourd to do such a thing, but at the moment a lot of countries do seem out of their gourd.

As far as Britain's military capabilities go, compared to Spain's, I wonder.

I wonder if there might ever come a time when the Spanish govt. becomes so desperate to hold the EU together (despite the fact that they've hardly benefited from the Common Currency, but because, if the cause of breaking away becomes popular, parts of Spain might be tempted to follow suit) that they might be tempted to do a Galtieri and make a throw of the dice, figuring that it doesn't matter since Britain is determined to tear the EU apart anyway, so they might get sympathy (if covert) from Brussels, Paris* and Berlin.

 

* depending who's in office there

Edited April 4, 2017 by Manfred von Dreidecker

[Soccergirl13]

17 minutes ago, and then said:

Except these children have some of the deadliest weapons humanity has ever devised.  

And that's what is so worring about the current politics world wide. Getting offended and being the tougher child immediately bringing out war.

I don't even understand why Spain wants Gibraltar so badly. The only reason this little piece of land is viable is for it's billion dollar tax haven industry. And Gibraltar's own government fought for that tax haven. They are constantly in court with the UK because if you get a lot of money you will be a greedy bit$# and the UK is trying to force them to increase taxes on everything. Gibraltar is fighting to keep their own tax regulation knowing fully well that companies would just move on to the next tax haven leaving Gibraltar behind with increased taxes on the not available industries.

Why Spain even wants it I don't get. Just imagine Gibraltar would fall under Spanish government  they'd be immediately put under Spanish rules and loose the entire appeal in the first place. In the end it's a small stretch of land without viable natural resources or anything. Just it's tax regulations. It's literally a loose loose.

Besides gibraltans  (?) Are British but voted 95% to remain in the EU. 

[Duke Wellington]

52 minutes ago, Frank Merton said:

Spain is a bit hypocritical considering its African colonies.  I don't doubt Britain would go to war were Spain to invade Gibraltar, and I think probably the rest of NATO would have to back Britain in such a case.  Of course Spain would have to be out of its gourd to do such a thing, but at the moment a lot of countries do seem out of their gourd.

As far as Britain's military capabilities go, compared to Spain's, I wonder.

The only European Power on par with our Military is the French and I dont think Spain would have much success in tempting them against us. Least not because the US, Canada and Australia are likely to back us up.

We have a good relationship with France though so like it would ever get that far. I suspect Spain's only ally would be Argentina.

Edited April 4, 2017 by RabidMongoose

[Frank Merton]

I think it depends mainly on what happens in Gibraltar itself.  If they continue to insist remaining part of Britain, in spite of Brexit, then the British would have no honorable option but to defend them with whatever it took, for however long it took, and a Spanish invasion would be seen by the whole world as intolerable.

[+Hammerclaw]

1 hour ago, Soccergirl13 said:

And that's what is so worring about the current politics world wide. Getting offended and being the tougher child immediately bringing out war.

I don't even understand why Spain wants Gibraltar so badly. The only reason this little piece of land is viable is for it's billion dollar tax haven industry. And Gibraltar's own government fought for that tax haven. They are constantly in court with the UK because if you get a lot of money you will be a greedy bit$# and the UK is trying to force them to increase taxes on everything. Gibraltar is fighting to keep their own tax regulation knowing fully well that companies would just move on to the next tax haven leaving Gibraltar behind with increased taxes on the not available industries.

Why Spain even wants it I don't get. Just imagine Gibraltar would fall under Spanish government  they'd be immediately put under Spanish rules and loose the entire appeal in the first place. In the end it's a small stretch of land without viable natural resources or anything. Just it's tax regulations. It's literally a loose loose.

Besides gibraltans  (?) Are British but voted 95% to remain in the EU. 

Same reason you'd want the tip of Cornwall back if it had Spanish camped out on it for a couple of centuries; national pride. Same reason the Argentines want The Falklands back and the Cubans want Gitmo.