How will God prove himself?

[+Liquid Gardens]

30 minutes ago, and then said:

Unfortunately, when he returns, the bible says the world will be in a state where if he waited ANY longer, "no flesh would be saved alive" .  

The Bible also says that Jesus says that some of his disciples will not taste death before this occurs.  He seems to have been entirely wrong about that; not much reason to worry about the other biblical prophecies when the main dude can't get them right.

[Mr Walker]

29 minutes ago, I hide behind words said:

I will tell you why monogamy is hollow them and now. Because some men don't even kiss their wives, listen, cherish, and make love but either run hot with demand or cold with rarely a tender touch.

So women need to remarry maybe more than once or worse are stuck in their situation but at leas the kids if any are OK.

Not my view but Jesus' as you know.

As far as sex lol. Better she cheat than suffer if it is missing or a place holder for other missing components. 

But your view of sex is valid but also biased as you had an adequate amount of sowing your oats but others maybe did not. So unfair you had your fun and now want to honor the compact or sex within the bounds of monogamy and marriage when you totally did not before like many males with needs and eyes but unlike many males you were blessed with willing partners. So you are OK but cannot be the true maintainer of what you claim are the rules and by no means an authority over others in shaming them if they run afoul of them now.

Tha t is not the fault of monogamy but a failing in the nature of humanity  (and those men and women)  How will a second relationship improve or overcome those failings ? This must be done from inside a person with will and discipline,  based on love and understanding, and of course reality always falls short of perfection.

The only real change we can affect in our lives is changing ourselves    I once asked god why he had made my wife a bit anti social and "cold" towards people He gave me a lecture supported by visual effects  about how i had fallen in love with her just the way she was.

" Of course i could change her' he replied, "but then she would not be the woman you fell in love with. The problem does not lie in her but in you"

. "Instead",  he said, "  i will change you."

and so he did, and suddenly i understood and accepted my wife's nature and it no longer worried me.    

You might have read this before. We were on the beach and as he talked to me, god pointed out a little hermit crab which had come out of its shell and died.

God pointed out, "Your wife is like that hermit crab. She is happy and content within her shell. She feels safe and secure there.  You are her shell and she needs nothing else. Take her out of it and she might die as the person you know'"   

 Since then i always refer to my wife affectionately, as "My little hermit " and  I stopped pushing her to socialise more and get out more.

Um  It is true i have posted occasionally about my youth, but what do you actually understand about my pre  marital sexual experiences ?    As it happens  my wife was not only older than me by 9 years,  but  had a lot more sexual expernce when we met .  I am speaking about the commitment one makes in a formal or informal marriage ceremony.  There are dangers in casual sex especially for women but in this case i am speaking about monogamy within a partnership.

Personally i don't have any hangups about sex, and have counselled a lot of young people and taught sexual education in schools  Because sex is so powerful and thus dangerous ( i have had students commit suicide over it)  I personally believe it should be carried out in the context of a loving relationship, but what others choose, as long as they do no harm, is not my business.,   

There should BE no other partner than a totally willing one.  Sex is not a need, but a desire or a want ( you wont die from lack of sex even if you think you are going to )   that desire or want cant always be met, and it is not healthy that we should think we have an unrestricted right to  sex, or that a partner has an obligation to provide it

 (Due to circumstances beyond our control, my wife has not been able to have sex for  at least 15 years now . This does not diminish my love for her, or commitment to her.  It does not tempt me to think of others, or to seek sex elsewhere.  The partnership and the marriage, the love and companionship, is far too valuable to risk over something like sex,  and I promised to love her  and be faithful to her, in sickness and in health  )

Edited April 7, 2017 by Mr Walker

[Mr Walker]

30 minutes ago, StarMountainKid said:

Only occasionally, in my experience. Lucky you to have found one of the perfect ones!

Lucky. Blessed. Call it what you will.  I was hit by the thunderbolt when i first met her, and the spell has never left me.

She is not perfect, being human,  but she is a good, decent, loyal,  loving, hard working, kind and compassionate woman, with intelligence, many skills i lack    and a sense of  courage and humour;  and that all goes a long way  

[+Sherapy]

5 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

Some gods definitely are metaphysical and psychological constructs.  Some are even nothing more than that.

However this does not preclude some gods from being real/physical, powerful, independently existing entities, which make a connection with human beings.

Interestingly, It  also does not preclude a human being nominating a real entity, like a cat for example, as a god.

EVERYTHING in the human mind exists there only as a mental construct. Take a dog for instance.  Whether it is a real dog or a fictional/imagined one , within  a human mind its existence is ONLY as a perception we construct. ie a mental, psychological, or metaphysical construct of the mind.

 Only humans have this abilty to see reality separately from its actual existence, and to shape and construct their own individual reality within their minds.

How would you decide the difference? 

 

[XenoFish]

Why does god have to be a 'thing'? When we often discuss god it's a humanoid type construct. Even with the embodiment's such as Jesus. A god-like human, but that's not a god. If we can not define a god, then god can not be honestly discussed. The god we often had thread after thread about is human, a god with human qualities. So it is easy to assume that this god is one of our own creation. And god's word is just the world of man. There is nothing more to this because mankind has made god/s/ess's in our image, the angels and demons in our image, and all the entities in between in our image. 

[+Sherapy]

31 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Why does god have to be a 'thing'? When we often discuss god it's a humanoid type construct. Even with the embodiment's such as Jesus. A god-like human, but that's not a god. If we can not define a god, then god can not be honestly discussed. The god we often had thread after thread about is human, a god with human qualities. So it is easy to assume that this god is one of our own creation. And god's word is just the world of man. There is nothing more to this because mankind has made god/s/ess's in our image, the angels and demons in our image, and all the entities in between in our image. 

I would add that "god" is experienced psychologically, this is not new Freud argued this.

To me, God is simply a mix of the parental figures, a projection of the attachment figures. IMHO

God is always comforting, available, loving, and  protective--sound familiar? 

God is sought or makes an appearance during times of upheaval, illness, death, tragedy, or crisis, or loneliness of some sort.

 

 

 

Edited April 8, 2017 by Sherapy

[XenoFish]

1 minute ago, Sherapy said:

I would add that "god" is a experienced psychologically, this is not new Freud argued this.

To me, God is simply a mix of the parental figures, a projection of the attachment figures. IMHO

God is always comforting, available, loving, and  protective--sound familiar? 

 

 

True. But god is also wrathful, demanding and controlling. With often exaggerated expectations. Just like some parents. And you could say it's "divine" paranoia that keeps people on that narrow path of obedience. Since they think that "god" is always watching.

[+Sherapy]

5 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

True. But god is also wrathful, demanding and controlling. With often exaggerated expectations. Just like some parents. And you could say it's "divine" paranoia that keeps people on that narrow path of obedience. Since they think that "god" is always watching.

Yep, I agree. Attachment Theory covers all this. 

 

Edited April 8, 2017 by Sherapy

[Mr Walker]

9 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Why does god have to be a 'thing'? When we often discuss god it's a humanoid type construct. Even with the embodiment's such as Jesus. A god-like human, but that's not a god. If we can not define a god, then god can not be honestly discussed. The god we often had thread after thread about is human, a god with human qualities. So it is easy to assume that this god is one of our own creation. And god's word is just the world of man. There is nothing more to this because mankind has made god/s/ess's in our image, the angels and demons in our image, and all the entities in between in our image. 

Any alien entity incomprehensible to humans can't BE a god to us. It cannot serve the purpose or function of a god to us.   To me, by definition, the ability to establish some common understanding is a necessity for a god    eg if we cant recognise an entity and it can't, or won't, recognise us, It cant be a god.TO/FOR us. If we can't establish some form of communication with it (even if this is an imaginary one which exists only inour minds) it cant be a god to us  

This is not to say that humans do not naturally anthropomorhise gods when they construct concepts about them.

 Indeed, why bother constructing a god who is too alien for us to comprehend or interact with.

Again all this is true Yet a real independent physical and powerful entity exists (  Perhaps many of them) and has, for a long time, interacted with and guided man.  Because a man can only think in the languages and symbolisms he has learned to speak in, every human constructs their understanding of such real gods they might encounter from within their own understandings. We also do this for every real thing we encounter from a dog to a pineapple   The danger here is that, because we know we do make up imaginary gods, that we believe all gods are imaginary.

Ive never got that thought process. We all know real dogs and imaginary/fictional dogs. The existence of  one does not preclude the existence of the other.    

Ps gods and angels are often substantially different from humans in form and abilty. 

[XenoFish]

Oh sorry Walker's talking about the god he's talked to in his garden. A physical god.......I forgot. All our opinions mean nothing now. Threads over folks go home, eat a burrito.

 

 

[Mr Walker]

6 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

I would add that "god" is experienced psychologically, this is not new Freud argued this.

To me, God is simply a mix of the parental figures, a projection of the attachment figures. IMHO

God is always comforting, available, loving, and  protective--sound familiar? 

God is sought or makes an appearance during times of upheaval, illness, death, tragedy, or crisis, or loneliness of some sort.

 

 

 

True, but if you have a dog or a cat you also experience that psychologically. It s the only way a human CAN expernce anything, via a consciousness which is self aware and reflective. . A real independently existent  God appears any time any where. Thats because it is self directed  and self motivated.  You can pick a real god because it does what it wants to do,  not what you would like or expect it to do,  if it was a product of your mind. 

[Mr Walker]

1 minute ago, XenoFish said:

Oh sorry Walker's talking about the god he's talked to in his garden. A physical god.......I forgot. All our opinions mean nothing now. Threads over folks go home, eat a burrito.

 

 

Your opinions are valued  My comments apply BOTH to real gods and imagined ones, It is just that some argue real ones don't exist. 

[XenoFish]

1 minute ago, Mr Walker said:

Your opinions are valued  My comments apply BOTH to real gods and imagined ones, It is just that some argue real ones don't exist. 

There isn't a real god. We've no evidence, no proof in any "god" type being and even if we did where did it come from? Don't you see the logical problem with a god? Wait of course you don't. A lot of people don't. The imaginary one's can create saint and justified serial killers. They can raise up the weak or crush them under foot. Our man-made gods. But that's just it, it isn't really a god. Just an idea. There isn't some metaphysical entity pulling the strings, no magic man, no savior, nothing. There is only a brief amount of time to exist and then nothingness. God doesn't have anyone's back. It's just your (especially yours walker) imagination.

[Mr Walker]

10 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Oh sorry Walker's talking about the god he's talked to in his garden. A physical god.......I forgot. All our opinions mean nothing now. Threads over folks go home, eat a burrito.

 

 

Two questions for you xeno, which might help me understand your position better. 

First. in your opinion, what qualities must an entity  possess and demonstrate  to you to  convince YOU that it is a god?. 

Secondly. Do you believe that these qualities can exist in the real physical world, rather than  only in the imaginations or minds of people. ?

[+Sherapy]

23 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Oh sorry Walker's talking about the god he's talked to in his garden. A physical god.......I forgot. All our opinions mean nothing now. Threads over folks go home, eat a burrito.

 

 

I would say that for Walker because he is getting older, has faced a major illness, wife is recovering from an illness it isn't unusual that he has created his construct the way he has, he is obviously seeking comfort. And, for him I think his garden god serves a much needed purpose at this time in his life.

You found solace in magiK for a time and I found solace in Buddhism not to long ago.

For you and me we just came to different conclusions, we both have discovered we are resilient, capable, and in turn have found we are capable of getting through anything. 

And I think for Walker his god construct gives him comfort, in this context I don't begrudge the poor guy, of course we aren't gonna be convinced his god is real, I think it is more about him and his journey more than anything else.

Edited April 8, 2017 by Sherapy

[MWoo7]

9 hours ago, XenoFish said:

Metaphysic's is a load of pre-psychology b.s. Been there done that. God like all the angels, demons, and other mythical beings are just figments of the imagination. 

EIRU(#* dammit I'm going to wear this word out.

 

In case it was missed,
Recap: Bingo!

[XenoFish]

2 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

Two questions for you xeno, which might help me understand your position better. 

First. in your opinion, what qualities must an entity  possess and demonstrate  to you to  convince YOU that it is a god?. 

Secondly. Do you believe that these qualities can exist in the real physical world, rather than  only in the imaginations or minds of people. ?

There is nothing that could convince me something is a god, because with each effort new questions would be presented. It would be pointless. 

Again there is nothing. God is just a figment of the imagination. 

[XenoFish]

4 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

I would say that for Walker because he is getting older, has faced a major illness, wife is recovering from an illness it isn't unusual that he has created his construct the way he has, he is obviously seeking comfort. And, for him I think his garden god serves a much needed purpose at this time in his life.

You found solace in magiK for a time and I found solace in Buddhism not to long ago.

For you and me we just came to different conclusions, we both have discovered we are resilient, capable, and in turn have found we are capable of getting through anything. 

And I think for Walker his god construct gives him comfort. 

What I found solace in was a simple method of using symbolism to impress an intention into my subconscious. A methodology that is not mystical but psychological in nature. Not pseudoscientific woo.

[+Sherapy]

49 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

True, but if you have a dog or a cat you also experience that psychologically. It s the only way a human CAN expernce anything, via a consciousness which is self aware and reflective. . A real independently existent  God appears any time any where. Thats because it is self directed  and self motivated.  You can pick a real god because it does what it wants to do,  not what you would like or expect it to do,  if it was a product of your mind. 

God can only be a product of your mind at this point ( we just don't know otherwise) and I think for you he feels very real, familiar, safe, dependable, always loving. I am glad you have this source of comfort, it is immaterial to me if god is real to you or not, if it works for you that is what should matter, not trying to convince us otherwise. That tells me you yourself are in doubt. 

Edited April 8, 2017 by Sherapy

[+Sherapy]

8 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

What I found solace in was a simple method of using symbolism to impress an intention into my subconscious. A methodology that is not mystical but psychological in nature. Not pseudoscientific woo.

And, you aren't trying to convince anyone that magiK is the end all be all. 

Edited April 8, 2017 by Sherapy

[Mr Walker]

6 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

There isn't a real god. We've no evidence, no proof in any "god" type being and even if we did where did it come from? Don't you see the logical problem with a god? Wait of course you don't. A lot of people don't. The imaginary one's can create saint and justified serial killers. They can raise up the weak or crush them under foot. Our man-made gods. But that's just it, it isn't really a god. Just an idea. There isn't some metaphysical entity pulling the strings, no magic man, no savior, nothing. There is only a brief amount of time to exist and then nothingness. God doesn't have anyone's back. It's just your (especially yours walker) imagination.

AH but there IS a real, physical, powerful,alien entity which  lots of humans call, and think of, as god. I know this as absolutely a s i know I am real and physical Thus  the only real argument i can accept   is what this entity really is,

 And of course it isn't actually "god", or even  " a god ,if seen through its own eyes.  BUT because humans see it that way, and treat it that way, it is as much a god as a dog is a dog.

 In other words we construct beliefs and concepts around it just as we do for  a dog.   We attach values, symbolic understandings and beliefs, to the word god, just as we do to the word dog.

 My imagination, or even an imaginary friend, cannot act  in a physical way to alter matter.  It can't act to save a life   it cant provide knowledge and abilities not found in a human mind.

One way to recognise a real god is to evaluate its physical impact on you and your environment

  I would be dead a few times if there was no real physical entity watching over me and protecting me.  With respect i can realy only laugh at  the very idea that   an alien, real and powerful entity does not have its own existence and self direction, purpose and goals.  

There is no logical problem with an evolved, powerful, ancient, and wise race of gods  Only with the idea that gods are omniscient, omnipotent, and exist outside of time and space.  That is logically impossible and to believe it requires magical thinking.  The after life is an open question. Given that humans are not far short of immortality and the abilty to store and transfer consciousness and memories by using our own sciences  that would not be beyond the abilty of older alien races.  The only after life i think possible is one created via technology. 

Ps suppose god did not exist and have my back.  Would i still not be much better off acting and believing that he did?  Science proves that i would, so I am in a win win situation, either way. 

[XenoFish]

Just now, Sherapy said:

And, you aren't trying to convince anyone that magiK is the end all be all. 

Nope and I won't. It's something I use as needed without.

[XenoFish]

If you've got proof of aliens then share with the world Walker. Change everything with it. Do it. Prove it.

Even if there was an advanced alien race they still wouldn't be gods. They'd just be advanced aliens. Only an idiot would think they were gods.

Edited April 8, 2017 by XenoFish

[Mr Walker]

16 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

I would say that for Walker because he is getting older, has faced a major illness, wife is recovering from an illness it isn't unusual that he has created his construct the way he has, he is obviously seeking comfort. And, for him I think his garden god serves a much needed purpose at this time in his life.

You found solace in magiK for a time and I found solace in Buddhism not to long ago.

For you and me we just came to different conclusions, we both have discovered we are resilient, capable, and in turn have found we are capable of getting through anything. 

And I think for Walker his god construct gives him comfort, in this context I don't begrudge the poor guy, of course we aren't gonna be convinced his god is real, I think it is more about him and his journey more than anything else.

LOL there goes therapy again doing her own psychological assessment of my needs and drivers, based on her own attitudes and values and harsh up bringing. She never reads a word i actually say but just sees things through her own life long experiences and beliefs.  Only problem is, sherapy that  ive been like this from  age 22 when god first butted into my life. i was a young handsome successful person just finishing uni.  i was fit healthy loved and totally well adjusted  i was popular and  life was good.    I was an atheist and a secular humanist. While moral and ethical i was not religious. i had no need for god and indeed his intervention was a real pain in the butt.  How do you fit that into your diagnoses.?  Also i simply don't see life as you d.o There IS no bad thing in my life. not one. Every thing which happens to me is life affirming and a chance to learn and grow. 

 

Your patronism and well wishes are equally noted sherapy  But to me your life has been much harder and stressful than my own .  While god has been good to me there is nothing in my life which makes me need a god . I have everything i need without god.  He is just a wonderful bonus.

[XenoFish]

Your narcissism is showing Walker.