How will God prove himself?

[Clarakore]

How will you the general poster prove your truth or most efficiently present your postulation?

Why try to worry about God being proven when few have proven themselves.

Simply accept others and you will be accepted and proof is a non factor when true trust is developed in others and also the system of human discourse to arrive to the truth. The buffalo went that way, no this way, tribe split. My religion is right and yours wrong, continental conflict.

Science is gold and religion has no value, or religion is truth and science is of the devil, but true illumination on a systematic level is the domain of science and acceptance the domain of religion. We need each other, just as friction is required for a plant to grow. Quit continuing the debunked drape-white thesis of their being a conflict between the two. Now science has to quietly respect religion while mildly but seriously reporting the bad parts of it, but accept, and religion needs to modernize as the era of Christianity is over as we have left the Piscean just as judaism was done when we entered it.

The era of aggressive atheism is dead, based on draper-white, and pushed by those who make money of the conflict, quit the panic that we have to drill in the truth to save humanity, and religion get back to your original mission, spirituality being illuminated yes and truths being told in that domain but only caring for the weakest in society as their only outreach, Come as you are churches are needed and we won't force conversion but are willing to share what we believe and will listen to what you believe, and since no church offers this I have none to be loyal too.

Philosophers debated, Jewish priests debated on some level, that is gone and we need it back. Science also debates amongst each others but their truth or closest to it by accepting consensus as mainstream view of science is a deterrent to the mission and creates alternative junk and fringe science when we need to always leave much to question and this is the best we have so far but one group says this and another that and mine this thus a composite view of truth which is actual truth and a way to say we have the most superior knowledge up to date by allowing a few views to run like horses in the same race. But we have dominant view that rules academia but is more like religion in that way, no room for liberal science to flourish here, no room for true debate there and thus none can be extended to religion now.

 

Edited April 8, 2017 by I hide behind words

[Rlyeh]

15 hours ago, RabidMongoose said:

In the Bible, God is a mind that through language creates the universe. God at no stage becomes a physical flesh and blood being. Also the Bible does not explicitly state how many dimension there are but as there is a realm outside of this world in Genesis (Garden of Eden before the fall of Man) it implies higher dimensions. Other dimensions also present a way in which far out stories like Noahs Ark could be correct.

Where does any of this appear in the Bible? I get the feeling you're retro-fitting scripture.

[XenoFish]

I spent 20 years of my life as a devotee to the occult. Hours upon hours of study and practice, mostly practice. I learned a lot out myself, how my mind works. And during all that time I did not have one experience that 100% convinced me that it was real. And I really wanted that. But there was nothing. It was all just a prettied up system of affirmations, creative visualization, and self-hypnosis. I saw spirits constantly because I expected to, once I stopped they vanished. Oh, how some will say I awoke my astral senses. No I just let my imagination run wild. The drawn up cosmic/elemental/personal energy was again a product of the imagination, not real. Great words spoken with an emotional charge, calling upon some being. Those were just a magical placebo. No physical god came roaring in. No fire and brimstone from the devils. 

Yet there are those who will praise god for curing someone's cancer, the same cancer god created. I will save you but not another, I will give you victory in war but not another. I will help those who have faith in me and punish the non-believers. God of our own creation, god of the imagination. A product of human fear and ignorance. 

[Clarakore]

14 minutes ago, Rlyeh said:

Where does any of this appear in the Bible? I get the feeling you're retro-fitting scripture.

Interpreting scripture through a different lens is the best way to approach the Bible, It has many truths on different levels. Just as Atlantis was not a real physical continent it was a place where people cooperated and knew what the other person was thinking. When we shared more of the same mind and my memories might blend into my parents memories so uncle George did this great thing but we can't say if it was 20 or 200 years ago.

Eden and the Flood are the same. Eden is Atlantis and the flood is still ongoing. So much negative mojo floods the world here and there based on real world dynamics like drugs being a problem and economic progress is always the best but screw the environment and those people over there. Religion is meant to care about those things and recognize them and pray they change, intention, it thus spreads and change happpens when others fall in line, most of the great shifts in culture like the end of slavery here was because religion got involved finally.

The rapture is just the ascension of rising to the highest level evolution offers. Even evolution itself is in there, the days of creation basically run the gammut of how life came to be, day one was this, fish came whatever, then people, truth, and it was added in later and put up front, the original bible did not begin with In the Beginning lol, the prelude was born again and truth is we never can reach the end or the beginning but will at the same time, when we know all the ins and outs of everything from DAY ONE of big bang.

Edited April 8, 2017 by I hide behind words

[XenoFish]

7 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

Well then you believe that  most humans are idiots. About 90 % of modern humans still believe in a higher power  Given such a power is clearly not human, it is alien. You have just labelled 90% of humans as idiots.  God is just a name e attach to certin entities Like magic is a name we attach to technologies beyond our understanding. 

I am changing the world

I bet i have done far more than you ever will to change it for the better. if not for gods existence hundreds of children would have died from  starvation whom we have fed   thousands of villagers would have died from unsafe water and lack of sanitation.  Several young people would have never got an education in asia and africa, and a dozen young abandoned and homeless local people would not have been loved, cared for and given back their future.

I don't care about your "stories" walker. They are a dime a dozen. God didn't feed those people, create safe water, and improve sanitation. God didn't educate those people either. God didn't give people love as well. People did all those things. It's always people. Not god. Not some physical entity that you believe is real. No, all those things were done by people. Under the guise of religion and indoctrination.

  A dozen women would not have had seed funding to start businesses to make them independent and to provide for themselves and their families  Many animals would not have been saved or helped by our work and funding with several animal welfare groups.  By revealing himself to me, god has made a difference not only in my life but in the lives of thousands of others.  This could also have been accomplished if i simply believed , but i am incapable of belief and so god had to reveal  himself to me to change my life and to have me and my wife help all those people.

Again it's a people thing. Not a god thing. God isn't helping anyone or anything. And if god's revealed himself to you, I'd seek medical assistance. Again God has done nothing in your life or the lives of others. God as an idea has, the holy dopamine ghost, the divine placebo, the watcher in the darkness. The idea of some eternal parental figure watching over you. Not a real god, a surrogate parent. And this same god hasn't helped anyone nor done anything. People have done it all, yet they give the credit of there efforts to something that doesn't exist.

Your attitude is natural and understandable, but based on your own lack of exerince with this alien entity and its powers.   

Because it doesn't exist and if any advanced alien did exist, it's still just an alien. Not a god.

 

[XenoFish]

1 minute ago, I hide behind words said:

Interpreting scripture through a different lens is the best way to approach the Bible, It has many truths on different levels. Just as Atlantis was not a real physical continent it was a place where people cooperated and knew what the other person was thinking. When we shared more of the same mind and my memories might blend into my parents memories so uncle George did this great thing but we can't say if it was 20 or 200 years ago.

Eden and the Flood are the same. Eden is Atlantis and the flood is still ongoing. So much negative mojo floods the world here and there based on real world dynamics like drugs being a problem and economic progress is always the best but screw the environment and those people over there. Religion is meant to care about those things and recognize them and pray they change, intention, it thus spreads and change happpens when others fall in line, most of the great shifts in culture like the end of slavery here was because religion got involved finally.

If any holy scripture needs interpretation then it is wrong. 

[Clarakore]

12 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

I spent 20 years of my life as a devotee to the occult. Hours upon hours of study and practice, mostly practice. I learned a lot out myself, how my mind works. And during all that time I did not have one experience that 100% convinced me that it was real. And I really wanted that. But there was nothing. It was all just a prettied up system of affirmations, creative visualization, and self-hypnosis. I saw spirits constantly because I expected to, once I stopped they vanished. Oh, how some will say I awoke my astral senses. No I just let my imagination run wild. The drawn up cosmic/elemental/personal energy was again a product of the imagination, not real. Great words spoken with an emotional charge, calling upon some being. Those were just a magical placebo. No physical god came roaring in. No fire and brimstone from the devils. 

Yet there are those who will praise god for curing someone's cancer, the same cancer god created. I will save you but not another, I will give you victory in war but not another. I will help those who have faith in me and punish the non-believers. God of our own creation, god of the imagination. A product of human fear and ignorance. 

That is what you get for going the high magic route. You could use some truths of it and form your own techniques outside of those silly spell books and do folk magic my friend and see truth change for it is an augment.

Folk magic is first and true, when we learned to write we made everything more confusing by trying to say exactly how it works, thus when we try to be precise we lose our aim and focus is fuzzy.

The old ways don't need to rise they are here still we just need to blend the best of the past before we wrote and all we have done since we started a few thousand years ago.

The struggle of the ancient knowledge is real and we just need to discover and follow it as if it was some codified rule and law way of doing stuff, nah, ancient knowledge is here and we need to use it better cause we use it daily but mainly for the worst, they got in my lane in their car grrr I own the road, kill mode on.

Instead of the other way where we are part of the road and it has authority and we move according to conditions, and the stress of commuting which takes away quality of life, ruins health, will be gone. Cognitive Behavioral Therapy is kind of religious to me in that it truly heals as well, on a totally random end, CBT! Try it if you see a psychologist or plan too. Then let it go and don't preach it cause it isn't omg i need to follow rules which is a bad script to begin with. I need to be adaptive and avoid triggers by recognition, and not be the rat who died cause they moved the cheese.

[Clarakore]

8 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

If any holy scripture needs interpretation then it is wrong. 

It needs many interpretations which give more light on the truth of it all. It is grand literature in that it can be correlated to any time of history with timeless lessons if we recognize the bulk of it is simply a record of the past and how it was and how they did it then but don't do as they did.

It is not the end all of truth but helps many discover truths and grow in certain ways. Do not diss personal growth in any form or structure. Less you kill off roots that want to spread and suck as much nutrient from the soil in this tree called humanity.

But now days fiction like books and movies offer the same truths and new ones.

[XenoFish]

I've done it all. High, low, black magic, various forms of sorcery, energy work, and finally the only results producing method; sigils. Yet those results were purely psychological.

1 minute ago, I hide behind words said:

It needs many interpretations which give more light on the truth of it all. It is grand literature in that it can be correlated to any time of history with timeless lessons if we recognize the bulk of it is simply a record of the past and how it was and how they did it then but don't do as they did.

It is not the end all of truth but helps many discover truths and grow in certain ways. Do not diss personal growth in any form or structure. Less you kill off roots that want to spread and suck as much nutrient from the soil in this tree called humanity.

But now days fiction like books and movies offer the same truths and new ones.

I call that putting your own spin on things. It's not an interpretation, it's seeing what you want to see.

[Duke Wellington]

14 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

If any holy scripture needs interpretation then it is wrong. 

Who needs to interpret the opening lines of Genesis? Its quite clear what its saying.

[XenoFish]

2 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said:

Who needs to interpret the opening lines of Genesis? Its quite clear what its saying.

Yet what it's saying is complete B.S.

[Clarakore]

6 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

I've done it all. High, low, black magic, various forms of sorcery, energy work, and finally the only results producing method; sigils. Yet those results were purely psychological.

I call that putting your own spin on things. It's not an interpretation, it's seeing what you want to see.

No spin or need to despin. I call it recognizing literature and art can be enlightening and thus is a good format for illumination. Science is dandy but without the professional who can actually tell us the truths of it in story form, not me lol, few will understand or slowly come to it.

No one wants an authority to say this is right that is wrong, change now, cause that is Parent to Child in Eric Berne's Transactional Analysis. We need Adult to adult and adult to child narratives.

Your cold hard truth is great but the narrative makes it golden and timeless. One day far away our modern science will seem like fairytales and people will dishonor the truths it revealed now. Scientific method is not eternal as it only is able to work when repeatable clinical conditions can be researched and eventually we won't need that elusive doorway to allow truth in in that form. We will be able to simply fire up the repeat this phenomena machine and study way faster and better, we will capture more, and our net will widen. You cast a shallow net bro enjoy the fish I got a few extra if ya need.

Edited April 8, 2017 by I hide behind words

[XenoFish]

True is subjective, unless it's backed by facts. No religion has facts. Just opinions. 

[Herr Falukorv]

1 minute ago, XenoFish said:

Yet what it's saying is complete B.S.

couldnt have said it better myself

[XenoFish]

All the gods, forged in our image, based on our desire. They are us. Yet many worship the idols. Calling them Hope and Salvation. Adhering to the words of long dead men from a time when superstition was a power, and the lack of knowledge made storm gods "real". When a sacrifice to the harvest god meant for good returns this year and if not, then you've displeased it. 

There is always a cop out when prayers do not get answered, it is god's will that you die from some disease. Yet for some reason "god" will save another instead of you. An 80 year old get's a heart transplant that a 20 year old needed. Odd that is. A loving god who is so willing to let us all die horrible deaths. Who even if asked will let someone starve to death. But the true force of change, people. People make all the betterment and horrors happen, we own up to it. God does nothing yet get's the praise. Madmen become saints and there names "holy". The power of god comes in mania that get's people killed over a drawing. 

[Clarakore]

13 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

All the gods, forged in our image, based on our desire. They are us. Yet many worship the idols. Calling them Hope and Salvation. Adhering to the words of long dead men from a time when superstition was a power, and the lack of knowledge made storm gods "real". When a sacrifice to the harvest god meant for good returns this year and if not, then you've displeased it. 

There is always a cop out when prayers do not get answered, it is god's will that you die from some disease. Yet for some reason "god" will save another instead of you. An 80 year old get's a heart transplant that a 20 year old needed. Odd that is. A loving god who is so willing to let us all die horrible deaths. Who even if asked will let someone starve to death. But the true force of change, people. People make all the betterment and horrors happen, we own up to it. God does nothing yet get's the praise. Madmen become saints and there names "holy". The power of god comes in mania that get's people killed over a drawing. 

Prayers should not be answered lol.

Saint Theresa of something, not Mother Theresa who is now Saint Theresa of Calcutta, said people forgot about prayer being, God I am listening, tell me what to do, instead of God listen to me, do this, and thus the great miraculous lives of past saints became rare, the great leaps religion offered have slowed down dramatically, and I still have a long way to go before I learn how to listen as part of prayer but at least I know prayer can be song, it can be silent contemplation, breathing properly a few moments or more, a spell put together or a poem composed with intent of working like a prayer and hopefully to bring blessing to others and self, to grieve with proper sadness of things we know are wrong, and add in joys and gratefulness of things that are working for others,

When you cry don;t waste it in boohoo for self, spread the energy, wah wah so bad for me or so and so, then say thank whoever you praise for so and so being blessed with what i lack, or they got good news here or there, Miley Cyrus showed us this when she was on stage with a big pail and stick and was stirring it as she moaned for a good while.

It was spiritual lesson by actually doing the prayer in one form, others will slowly understand the truth of it and she will maybe one day be included of someone who did bring spiritual truth to a greater promotion beneath the gimmicks and fanfare for fun and profit. Able to do what she wants cause she is set for life.

Many songs have crying in it, in some form or another, wah wah wah, woo woo woo, I always listen for it, this was the first time I saw crying used to it's maximum effect I know now.

Prayer cannot be said to be one simple thing and method and then debunked because it doesn't always work.

We ask for things yes but do other stuff more,

One day I was in such a panic, praying God I need help, God help me, God this, God that, and I heard demons laughing and one said, you think you are praying to God but you are praying to Panic.

I was like dirty demons I will stop praying like that and thus my prayer life began from the infancy of God do this k thx prayer and Country Songs about Prayers not meant to be answered with a yes, and plaititudes of ask for this instead of that methods.

I like to pick on occultists because they say folk paths to magic are wrong and you have to do it this way, meh meh, and their goal of control is such a vain effort, they could have made a compendium that is folk fun and not esoteric waste of time to try and learn many systems, stick to one in that case, check out Postmodern Magic blog by Patrick Dunn or pick up his book. Woo woo woo alert, nah, he is level headed professor in academia.

If I am good I will catch you one day and say look, you just said a prayer here.

 

Edited April 8, 2017 by I hide behind words

[Duke Wellington]

19 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Yet what it's saying is complete B.S.

My point is Genesis quite clearly says that God created the universe with his words. That is clearly written not ambiguous.

You're questioning if God exists which is a separate and distinct topic. Its not an opinion I share, although I am open to the possibility of errors in the Biblical accounts of the creator. I look at stories like Noahs Ark and ask how can this be true? And for it to be true I realise how we see and understand reality must be wrong. For example if we are indeed living in a multiverse then in the past reality on Earth might have had far fewer animals and a lot more water.

[XenoFish]

5 minutes ago, I hide behind words said:

Prayers should not be answered lol.

Saint Theresa of something, not Mother Theresa who is now Saint Theresa of Calcutta, said people forgot about prayer being, God I am listening, tell me what to do, instead of God listen to me, do this, and thus the great miraculous lives of past saints became rare, the great leaps religion offered have slowed down dramatically, and I still have a long way to go before I learn how to listen as part of prayer but at least I know prayer can be song, it can be silent contemplation, breathing properly a few moments or more, a spell put together or a poem composed with intent of working like a prayer and hopefully to bring blessing to others and self, to grieve with proper sadness of things we know are wrong, and add in joys and gratefulness of things that are working for others,

When you cry don;t waste it in boohoo for self, spread the energy, wah wah so bad for me or so and so, then say thank whoever you praise for so and so being blessed with what i lack, or they got good news here or there, Miley Cyrus showed us this when she was on stage with a big pail and stick and was stirring it as she moaned for a good while.

It was spiritual lesson by actually doing the prayer in one form, others will slowly understand the truth of it and she will maybe one day be included of someone who did bring spiritual truth to a greater promotion beneath the gimmicks and fanfare for fun and profit. Able to do what she wants cause she is set for life.

Many songs have crying in it, in some form or another, wah wah wah, woo woo woo, I always listen for it, this was the first time I saw crying used to it's maximum effect I know now.

Prayer cannot be said to be one simple thing and method and then debunked because it doesn't always work.

We ask for things yes but do other stuff more,

One day I was in such a panic, praying God I need help, God help me, God this, God that, and I heard demons laughing and one said, you think you are praying to God but you are praying to Panic.

I was like dirty demons I will stop praying like that and thus my prayer life began from the infancy of God do this k thx prayer and Country Songs about Prayers not meant to be answered with a yes, and plaititudes of ask for this instead of that methods.

If I am good I will catch you one day and say look, you just said a prayer here.

 

You are not talking to god, you are talking to yourself. Your subconscious. Easy way to understand this is to ask yourself a question. Like the name of the actor/actress of your favorite movie character when you can't remember their name. Give it time and you'll remember. It's all self-hypnosis/self-suggestion and god is the metaphysical placebo to take conscious worry off asking yourself something. Just a tool. All the gods are this way. 

[XenoFish]

5 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said:

My point is Genesis quite clearly says that God created the universe with his words. That is clearly written not ambiguous.

You're questioning if God exists which is a separate and distinct topic. Its not an opinion I share, although I am open to the possibility of errors in the Biblical accounts of the creator. I look at stories like Noahs Ark and ask how can this be true? And for it to be true I realise how we see and understand reality must be wrong. For example if we are indeed living in a multiverse then in the past reality on Earth might have had far fewer animals and a lot more water.

Where did this god come from, before space, before time? Who or what created god? Again this feeds into the eternal question.

Even if we live in a multi-verse it doesn't matter anyway, we're stuck in this reality. It doesn't matter if version-7373 of earth has a real god or not, it's not my reality. Not this reality either. 

[Clarakore]

57 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said:

Who needs to interpret the opening lines of Genesis? Its quite clear what its saying.

Not so, in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth blah blah let their be light and it was good. Darkness and void into light,

When one can do that on a personal level for growth of any sort it is using that spell to create. When one can create heaven and earth truly they will be outside the universe and understand this is simulation that they created and ran. and so many stops in between I have yet to see but two variations is good for me.

Rashi comments this way about it," In the beginning of God’s creation of: Heb. בְּרֵאשִית בָּרָא. This verse calls for a midrashic interpretation [because according to its simple interpretation, the vowelization of the word בָּרָא, should be different, as Rashi explains further]. It teaches us that the sequence of the Creation as written is impossible, as is written immediately below] as our Rabbis stated (Letters of R. Akiva , letter “beth” ; Gen. Rabbah 1:6; Lev. Rabbah 36:4): [God created the world] for the sake of the Torah, which is called (Prov. 8:22): “the beginning of His way,” and for the sake of Israel, who are called (Jer. 2:3) “the first of His grain.” But if you wish to explain it according to its simple meaning, explain it thus: “At the beginning of the creation of heaven and earth, the earth was astonishing with emptiness, and darkness…and God said, ‘Let there be light.’” But Scripture did not come to teach the sequence of the Creation, to say that these came first, for if it came to teach this, it should have written:“At first (בָּרִאשׁוֹנָה) He created the heavens and the earth,” for there is no רֵאשִׁית in Scripture that is not connected to the following word, [i.e., in the construct state] like (ibid. 27:1):“In the beginning of (בְּרֵאשִית) the reign of Jehoiakim” ; (below 10:10)“the beginning of (רֵאשִׁית) his reign” ; (Deut. 18:4)“the first (רֵאשִׁית) of your corn..." and goes on and on lol but it is all about what it means to the Hebrew in His opinion.

I much prefer discussing all of this in Rumi;s Field btw.

Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing there is a field. I'll meet you there. When the soul lies down in that grass the world is too full to talk about. Rumi.

Right and wrong is black and white thinking, science is right, religion is wrong, blah blah not my monkeys and not my mess but I am part of the audience of this theater if it is such.

The part payed to boo and jeer and comment loudly as the show goes on, I forget what they were called, but one time were part of the theater operation.

Another part did the same  but were not payed, and the upperclass in the best seats were more reserved with polite clapping and maybe a muted hiss.

Theater was grander before and even today some say Shakespeare was really Francis Bacon, and also Count Saint Germaine, lol.

From conspiracy theory to new age belief. meh i dont buy into it without proof but i do know shakespeare was illuminating and stil is, he enriched the english language, and gave us great beauty, produced great actors, and i will visit the globe one day when it burned down. i will replay that part of this sim when i learn how.

I met Count Saint Germaine, If you have any theosophical knowledge before with an intent to believe but didn't, test it with an open heart, he will come if invited, and you might not recognize him if not awaiting, but if awaiting you will end up saying like I did, "Who, who, who are you?"

He said who do you think I am.

Count Saint Germaine.

He smugly gestured but in a way of agreement with me.

I even helped him along his path by giving him a clue he thanked me for that changed his perception of his fate or some such, his lot maybe, or duty, who knows how he considers it, but he did think he was wrong about something and I took it away. He gave me lessons briefly in creating music with a mini jam session where he used the keyboard and i used my fists on wood for percussion, it was good music, told me other clues, admitted his tattoo then of humility written within a wedding ring band on his finger did not mean he was married to it when i asked, he admitted he was married to pride and thus put it there as a reminder, me and him told my mom that even the devil will be saved and isnt a bad guy and pointed to the same spot and area my mom dreamed jesus was sitting at in the living room, and gave me a clue about using double mirrors as a portal, so far i realized we can show us an outline of ourselves behind us, and finally but not a full summary of all that happened in two hours, he claimed to have been in our living room before using the mirrors, unsure how that works, then on the way out to his car he said, i have never been here before, although i saw him walk past it to get inside, but obviously we can travel outside of the bound of linear routes although it might appear to another if walking with them as being linear,

one day i will walk with him but probably after i die but still not in paradise as the work continues. now the 18 font bolded and red lettered portion of this text.

again finally now for this post science can be interpreted too, as i heard on NPR they studied lean years and feast years, and seasonal times of plenty and of less, and boys from 5-10 who suffered in lean years and periods were shorter, had less brain power and health, so suffered badly, but they studied their descendants and a few generations later their line had better healthier specimens while those who never suffered did not get that boost.

our suffering was not in vain for those who suffered in spiritual times of leanness. especially in the 70s and early 80s when divorces tore many families apart after Vietnam.

or for this who grew up on the poor side or region. our suffering was not in vain, it healed me a bit, and thus i read it like a chapter from the good book that is not limited to KJV for me.

Edited April 8, 2017 by I hide behind words

[Rlyeh]

1 hour ago, I hide behind words said:

Interpreting scripture through a different lens is the best way to approach the Bible, It has many truths on different levels. Just as Atlantis was not a real physical continent it was a place where people cooperated and knew what the other person was thinking. When we shared more of the same mind and my memories might blend into my parents memories so uncle George did this great thing but we can't say if it was 20 or 200 years ago.

Eden and the Flood are the same. Eden is Atlantis and the flood is still ongoing. So much negative mojo floods the world here and there based on real world dynamics like drugs being a problem and economic progress is always the best but screw the environment and those people over there. Religion is meant to care about those things and recognize them and pray they change, intention, it thus spreads and change happpens when others fall in line, most of the great shifts in culture like the end of slavery here was because religion got involved finally.

The rapture is just the ascension of rising to the highest level evolution offers. Even evolution itself is in there, the days of creation basically run the gammut of how life came to be, day one was this, fish came whatever, then people, truth, and it was added in later and put up front, the original bible did not begin with In the Beginning lol, the prelude was born again and truth is we never can reach the end or the beginning but will at the same time, when we know all the ins and outs of everything from DAY ONE of big bang.

Sounds like this "truth" is just you manipulating scripture by making it vague enough so it can remain relevant. However that isn't called truth, it's called equivocation.

[Rlyeh]

41 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said:

My point is Genesis quite clearly says that God created the universe with his words. That is clearly written not ambiguous.

You're questioning if God exists which is a separate and distinct topic. Its not an opinion I share, although I am open to the possibility of errors in the Biblical accounts of the creator. I look at stories like Noahs Ark and ask how can this be true? And for it to be true I realise how we see and understand reality must be wrong. For example if we are indeed living in a multiverse then in the past reality on Earth might have had far fewer animals and a lot more water.

This "creator" evolved from ancient Semite polytheism, but he is the creator of the universe.. right. Ignoring reality would be far simpler than trying to cherry-pick these inconvenient facts.

[cluey]

if god was one of us would you spit on him on the bus,lol.......only kidding.......what universe would he choose to control and get slave labor to make his sandals........while apparently with a beard,long hair a kaftan and sandals.........millions of people dress like that........how do you expect him to prove himself???

[Clarakore]

25 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

You are not talking to god, you are talking to yourself. Your subconscious. Easy way to understand this is to ask yourself a question. Like the name of the actor/actress of your favorite movie character when you can't remember their name. Give it time and you'll remember. It's all self-hypnosis/self-suggestion and god is the metaphysical placebo to take conscious worry off asking yourself something. Just a tool. All the gods are this way. 

And we are God. I agree with all you say but interpret it differently to validate my own belief for me and not to negate you, i get your truth, do what works for you, condemn what doesn't if that works for you, but you basically agreed with me in my view of seeing what someone says in other ways and hidden meanings, this was plain reversal and easy to spot, but also part of my outlook that turns curses and insults into blessings and praise, people who steal from me were just blessed cause i gave them something without knowing but the energy that i gave dominates, if someone does me wrong i will simply raise my fist and wear my wounds with pride, you must stick up for yourself son, never mind what anyone else done,

Sorry for dropping scripture, that last bit was from the Book of Yeasayer for you Nayayer lol, jk, but I am glad you highest form of truth is one we share, science, and it can be proven in steps to improve the way it helps humanity in time, i wish it was that easy for me and drop all else but I do have the advantage of not dealing with the you are wrong gambit in its pure form, mine is you are right but there is also this bit and this bit i would include, no worries if your basic response all sums down to but science can be proven and all that other stuff is false, maybe you might think harmful and bad as some do, and many parts are but most have abandoned those parts and kept the good, so thus my response boils down to riffing, discussing what i find awesome and healing for me, and accepting all views and await for those who do likewise to tell me how to actually improve and nudge me in new directions with their insights.

These debates offer edification but so much energy for little results. glad i stuck in and learned to accept atheism as a valid choice, science as a part of healing humanity system, and the good in those i once viciously debated as being harmful to me and the world at large, you guys have big hearts, big guns, and can argue the same things over and over again, i won;t always be here as i will be drawn somewhere else when the lessons run dry but i got more to learn from skeptics. carry on and man that hill before the enemy takes it while i simply flatten it because one time it was flat, and walk dandily across it mumbling stories with my staff i sometimes use to poke a branch in my way, a rock i want to move, but mostly so i walk well along this path and use magic to my best ability, this is a holy place, a church among many churches that community, i wish i knew you all better, Jessica Christ and my many other names here have ended, signing off,

mr walker, no monogamy is not the best system and was only enhanced as an illusion by romance genre of literature and song not so long ago when a princess said screw you dad i will marry who i want and not who you say i have to, and thus monogamy did flourish with the view we can choose for the first time, but romance is false man, buddhism tells us no one can promise love to another forever, monogamy of one person for one person is a convenience to order that part of their life and relationships, but truthfully we have many partners sometimes, marriage is more a legal entity than a true spiritual bonding mage magical and sanctified by saying i do, even the prostitute had true bonds with a few clients that led to enduring friendships and healthy interactions, cause like you said it aint about sex, but if monagamy was so perfect prositites would not exist, and because monogamy is god stammped in some views jesus said marriage is a worldly thing and we wont have the same spouse in heaven,

learn to divide the book between eternal truth and temporal conveniences that only began because of problems, will end when we solve them, and pagans are steps ahead man, able to divorce after a year and a day, can remary the next year....

truth be told for millions of years we were loyal to each other as groups, men and women in tribes, and they all had babies, had favorites, the lucky jackpot winners of genetics had more sex probably but all had a go at it on some day of the month or something, when they crossed this ridge at least once a year the less desirable males and females were given equal footing, because even the shape of the male instrument to insert genetic material has a scoop to help pull out some competing dna with ours, and science proved when jealous a male will thrust harder, so good try for the small guy, even if the big man was more beneficial due to woman also being able to enjoy the big o, oxytocin was guranteed to all in some form, so we were not dopamine dopamine no oxytocin reward haywire like now, and oxytocin leads to the sense of bonding, a gift from god, using chemicals we now can explain with science, the default relationship is more like a free love hippy scene but not because it was counter cultural but imperative to our surivival, so we must bridge the two and while i love the myth of monogamy one there is one right one for me god chose, it is a myth so any sadness from it is soothed, and even in the OT if the husband died the next brother got a new wife lol, and if there was none she was widowed and everyone was obligated to take care of her, now monogamy is i cant be bothered about the widow cause i got probs and need to focus on wife so none will be had.

 

selfish selfish selfish that lacks much to be desired before claiming it is the right way, for now maybe, for you yes, but it is more of hassle then not, and many churches were divorce? ok the man can stay as a memeber, the ex wife, well she is not welcome no more, thus even the church failed at protecting their women, cause of monogamy, and ancient tribal laws and early greek and roman ideas on men being leaders instead of support team cause the default was women rule and science proves this as they can have way more partners in one go than one man can offer

so many tribes then most likely had very strong women who were the leaders and ran the show and many many men to support that effort, women probably eliminated each other then, so it wasn't perfect and this last bit of agressive actions of women is speculative, maybe more just died in childbirth so there was more men, but we evolved with a few women marrying many men, and that is what god ordained for most of humanity, and even if monagamy was an improvement it failed in keeping the core units of tribe and family together leading to clans, sects, city states, kingdoms, sovereign nations, then intranational alliances and suprastates competing and letting family and marriage go to the way side. it is about the babies being taken care of first then, and the women who can actually carry them to term, being the prized source of life, and worth willing to fight, die, bond, and cooperate, and when we lost that we lost our path where it was both spiritual and physical, and now we walk a path of flesh, we will restore the spiritual path first of all by understanding romance is dead, and i am loyal to my joan of arc yes, but many boys follow her too, the men are busy protecting their power, we fight for women, our lady, we are not lancelot, or the king, we are the true warriors who follow the miracles and the woman who others condemn, burn, execute, do not want because they dont fit in, but good for all who have and maintained their traditional roles even as everything else it was based on falls apart.

and marriage and death should not cost much, if wealthy spend moderately but will seem lavish, if not it will seem less but it is the same proportion, the only thing missing for some is dancing towards their wife like king david did. i made sure to do that later in life and it was a second private ceremony.

and when we no longer have old women giving information to the younger of how to best mother and wife, and men supporting men in the same vain, and some meeting of the two, open book discussion without hiding anything, it worked better, when we had matchmakers who made sure people would always be married no matter what, and when we started drinking at the bar, ranting on the wife, saying how horrible hubby is when womens gather, we lost the plot

when men quit praising the noble wife at the gate we stopped following the proverbs of the bible. when monogamy in the church looks like this then i will give it some credit but it does not.

An excellent wife who can find? She is far more precious than jewels.
	Pro 31:11	The heart of her husband trusts in her, and he will have no lack of gain.
	Pro 31:12	She does him good, and not harm, all the days of her life.
	Pro 31:13	She seeks wool and flax, and works with willing hands.
	Pro 31:14	She is like the ships of the merchant; she brings her food from afar.
	Pro 31:15	She rises while it is yet night and provides food for her household and portions for her maidens.
	Pro 31:16	She considers a field and buys it; with the fruit of her hands she plants a vineyard.
	Pro 31:17	She dresses herself [fn] with strength and makes her arms strong.
	Pro 31:18	She perceives that her merchandise is profitable. Her lamp does not go out at night.
	Pro 31:19	She puts her hands to the distaff, and her hands hold the spindle.
	Pro 31:20	She opens her hand to the poor and reaches out her hands to the needy.
	Pro 31:21	She is not afraid of snow for her household, for all her household are clothed in scarlet. [fn]
	Pro 31:22	She makes bed coverings for herself; her clothing is fine linen and purple.
	Pro 31:23	Her husband is known in the gates when he sits among the elders of the land.
	Pro 31:24	She makes linen garments and sells them; she delivers sashes to the merchant.
	Pro 31:25	Strength and dignity are her clothing, and she laughs at the time to come.
	Pro 31:26	She opens her mouth with wisdom, and the teaching of kindness is on her tongue.
	Pro 31:27	She looks well to the ways of her household and does not eat the bread of idleness.
	Pro 31:28	Her children rise up and call her blessed; her husband also, and he praises her:
	Pro 31:29	"Many women have done excellently, but you surpass them all."
	Pro 31:30	Charm is deceitful, and beauty is vain, but a woman who fears the LORD is to be praised.
	Pro 31:31	Give her of the fruit of her hands, and let her works praise her in the gates.

[Clarakore]

33 minutes ago, Rlyeh said:

This "creator" evolved from ancient Semite polytheism, but he is the creator of the universe.. right. Ignoring reality would be far simpler than trying to cherry-pick these inconvenient facts.

nice insight there thank you but i would like to see proof of this, where did you learn this?

and the process of us being creators was innate to us without the ability to even invent and discuss the concept of creator, and we also had the view of higher forces, at one time it was our ancestors, and we should have not forgotten and dishonor them for they are the ones who look for us, another time was environment, so lighting and storm gods, the greeks personalized those gods so we had personal relationships, the semites did have many hills and each had a god, but it was not personal but for the tribe, but where is this first instance of a CREATOR being credited to the semites? I need to learn, know, and see for myself if not no worries i will find it one day,

i suspect but cannot prove womanhood and aunts and grandmothers were viewed as awesome creators but limited in that maybe not of the world but of life probably, but if so that would be the fist step to thinking about a creator even if we did not have the ability to write and record it, but whatever, i will stick with history as it was recorded, i will find the first instance and see if semitic views beat aristotle and any other competition. semites pushed it hard but unsure if they were first to say a creator made the whole world.