How will God prove himself?

[Mr Walker]

2 hours ago, XenoFish said:

 

I can only feel extremely sorry for you missing out on so much of human reality.There is a lot more i could add about your supreme arrogance in trying to argue that your disbelief is somehow more valid than my lifetime of experiences but its not worth my while.

Finally i explained that gods manifestion caused changes in my life which resulted in hundreds of lives being saved snd thosands improved This is factual reality. So yes of course my wife and I made those changes but they would never have happened if god had not physically manifested in my life and changed all my priorities.  Thus ultimately god is responsible, by changing me. What part of this dont you believe and why do you suppose we would have chosen to give awy almost a million dollars over 40 years if NOT for the intervention of god? 

Finally and very simply I would have died a number of times without the direct physical intervention of god. Thus if god did not exist, i would not be here now having this conversation with you.  And to suggest that those who experience or believe in a god are mentally ill, is rude, and shows the depth of your own deophobia. 

From within my experince i could argue that those who refuse to acknowledge God's presence when he is clearly all around them,  are the mentally ill ones

[Clarakore]

1 hour ago, Rlyeh said:

Sounds like this "truth" is just you manipulating scripture by making it vague enough so it can remain relevant. However that isn't called truth, it's called equivocation.

No concealing here or avoiding to commit. I come from total disclosure and full commitment to my beliefs which change and grow, are revised, and draw from many sources.

In the end we just define truth differently with yours likely being defined by if not truth then falsehood, I suggest a deconstruction of truth on your part for improvement because better heads then we tell much and history itself reveals how truth and what it means has evolved and changed in time, and even now how people define it has variances.

For me truth is subjective and elusive, but more importantly it is revealed and revised, a composite and shared, yours is maybe revealed if using revelation being only the domain of scientific method, and shared if shared means science is and right and all else is wrong, that is kinda forced like religionist do it, and if you did look i am sure you could draw from several theories of truth to define how you view it, based on consenus and contained further by a strict system to proclaim it, for me it is more a force that entails that but really is about Revelation, that is from unreality into reality with the end goal of healing and moving together as a group because of it as the tide lifts all ships, and that it also constantly improves us as a  single being, none can contain all truth be it a person or a system, and any who try will fall short, and play judge seriously but childishly, and i am learning it is nothing to be fought over, so you are right, all i add on might be wrong, but if it work for you and yours i am glad, i don't discredit your version of truth, only the piggy back concept of declaring others of having falsehoods.

i think much is to be revealed to me and you, but what we know is not falsehood no matter what, unless we are intentionally lyings and don't believe what we post, i bet if we went on forever you would break before me on our defintions of truths because my view also is based on power, not the kind we use to win and demolish the losers by force, soft power that when used adds and grows, empowers all, more power is made, while your form of power behind your concept of truth is using energy that will not be replenished. no worries there is a good intentions sink somewhere in shambalah and maybe your own local mystical kingdom, here we call it aztlan, and others here before us say a time is coming when the buffalo herds will return, mystically of course, we wont see the herds again i dont thinik, but the power and the way they thrived in the land by using it for the best way with all they had was lost by power plays that destroyed harmony, your truth is backed up by good stuff but then ends with right or wrong, which is bogus sucker choice, dualism, also behind god and the devil at odds lol, you are in their camp with this, and my truth lives and ignores right and wrong but knows both work together to bring truth, you telling others they are wrong point blank is somehow the right thing and right energy we need to keep all this going, but it wont be needed forever, and truth as you see it will be as if it never existed, and truth that comes from many sources, rivers, wells, and ocean full of it, is just a part of who we are.

have fun but i am a skeptic of your view of truth and you are a believer.

my views to you leave you outside that as there is nothing to be skeptical about, it is just wrong wrong for you, and doesnt deserve address other than it is wrong, it is ok as i am a believer lots and a skeptic when i need to be but not as much as i should in my own view of truth. my way is funner for me so maybe draw it as fancy and frivolity but at one time even fancy and frivoloty served a deep purpose, was something people took time to do, and it allowed balance, so i leave this thread for good good, i wont be drawn back, cause it will be repeating without any new tales to tell, i leave with song, laughter, juggling, a hunch back, piping, jestering, minsteling, clowning, and taking your rats away.and instead of king rat the song will be truckers atlas by modest mouse.

This truckers atlas roads the ways
The freeways and highways don't know

I sold my atlas by the freight stairs

You got yourself a trucker's atlas

Do you speak the lingo?
Oh, oh, no, no, no
How far does your road go?

aka my truth is not limited to anything written and mapped, it is behind making new roads itself that await to be written about and mapped later

one day i wont need this view of truth

in the future you will also use this truckers atlas

we talked but there was no conversation, sorry i used lingo that just seems bogus, but how far does your road go? as far as they say? mine goes on forever because eternal truth in the end transcends the limited lifespan of the truth we claim and talkeds about just now, all that yours and mine, wont survive the sun which was born and will die

but i know you think it might and are ok with it as i am ok with that too but am also ok with beleiving it wont and thus knowing it whether it is true or not, i admit it might be the end, but i sure did not operate that way, but if we see each other at the simulator forum where gods discuss how to better rune UNIVERSE sim i will lol, and if i happen to sell your copy, i will fair price it and even accept a simple can i have one i am new here, as payment

so if im right you get a win, and if i am wrong at least my version is polite in one form and open and wishing you the best, a gift in itself here and now, and i overdo it cause i accept the same from you even if you will offer it later, science wont always be discussed in coldness with yes no true false fallacy. MANY FORMS OF DUALISM BUT SCIENCE TELLS US THAT ONE IS BASED ON FIGHT OR FLIGHT, TWO OPTIONS, AND ANOTHER SPEAKS OF A TIME WHEN ZORHASTRIANISM MADE IT PART OF RELIGION, THE SEMITES PICKED IT UP WITH GOD AND DEVIL, GOOD AND EVIL, RIGHT AND WRONG BECAME SOMETHING OF WHAT WE SEE NOW, AND THAT IS STRONG IN HOW SOME CLAIM SCIENCE IS RIGHT AND ALL ELSE IS WRONG, DRAPER WHITE THESES SHOWS HOW SCIENCE AND RELIGION WORK IN TANDEM, AND ANOTHER SCIENTIFIC INSIGHT YOU MIGHT WANT TO RESEARCH IF PYSHCOLOGY  AND HSTORU IS YOUR THING, CAUSE UNSURE WHO SAID IT BUT THEY HAD CREDENTIALS, IS THAT RELGION IS 20 YEARS BEHIND SCIENCE, A LAG TIME, AND IN THEY AGREE ON THE END, DUE TO RELGION HOLDING TRADTION TO UPHOLD TRUTH, WHAT WORKED IS GOOD, SO IT IS RESISTANT TO CHANGE FAST, AND SCIENCE PUSHING AHEAD WITH FASTER REVISION AND BEING ON THE FOREFRONT, BUT ITS ALL TRUTH AND IF YOU CLAIM SCIENCE SO MUCH EVEN YOU WOULD AGREE

but what i see is not real science which is limited and scientist know that but scientism and i leave you with an excerpt of an article penned by thomas burnett

not the theologian

Thomas is a former BioLogos Associate Editor. He currently works in science communications at the National Academy of Sciences, and he has also worked with the American Scientific Affiliation and the American Association for the Advancement of Science. He has degrees in philosophy and the history of science from Rice University and University of California, Berkeley. - See more at: http://biologos.org/author/thomas-burnett#sthash.0Xaj0p5t.dpuf

Scientism of Today

Scientism today is alive and well, as evidenced by the statements of our celebrity scientists:

“The Cosmos is all that is or ever was or ever will be.” –Carl Sagan, Cosmos

“The more the universe seems comprehensible, the more it also seems pointless.” –Stephen Weinburg, The First Three Minutes

“We can be proud as a species because, having discovered that we are alone, we owe the gods very little.” –E.O. Wilson, Consilience

While these men are certainly entitled to their personal opinions and the freedom to express them, the fact that they make such bold claims in their popular science literature blurs the line between solid, evidence-based science, and rampant philosophical speculation. Whether one agrees with the sentiments of these scientists or not, the result of these public pronouncements has served to alienate a large segment of American society. And that is a serious problem, since scientific research relies heavily upon public support for its funding, and environmental policy is shaped by lawmakers who listen to their constituents. From a purely pragmatic standpoint, it would be wise to try a different approach.

 

And look what this person has to say,

Physicist Ian Hutchinson offers an insightful metaphor for the current controversies over science:

“The health of science is in fact jeopardized by scientism, not promoted by it. At the very least, scientism provokes a defensive, immunological, aggressive response from other intellectual communities, in return for its own arrogance and intellectual bullyism. It taints science itself by association.”

and another good article is the poverty of scientism,

so lol joke is i support science, understand, and honor it better than you, and you actually are a detriment to the progress it offers

but hey your beliefs are valid for you now so i respect it and because of it i can laugh with a good heart, no cruelty,

the sacred clown of two-spirits disappears before the song he sings ends, it was rainbowarrior by cocorise, and the evil spirit of material thugs and mischief is banished, laughter is heard and a whisper as of a child to tell the children who might fear that no worries i am shussing the bad away, roo roo roo roo, safe and sound they are left and i wish i was a good parent but dont mind playing one for a moment here

honor to one of the masters of the scientific narrative, ian hutchinson, who might not be an authority as his field is in hard science, i find truth and healing in his words, so yeah i know most wont accept his view, but i did not try and pawn him off as authoritative or win an argument, i know it is not part of the "truth" and i dont want to convice you, i dont want to win, even if it seems i am doing that i have not the same energy because most using this much thought on one topic would be diatribing with hatred, was fun singing around the perimiter and through the village lane, past the hill we fight for, i kissed whatever flag was hoisted now, leave plans to flatten hills so there is nothing to fight over, and one seed for the  peace plant that will grow here one day

Edited April 8, 2017 by I hide behind words

[Mr Walker]

38 minutes ago, I hide behind words said:

And we are God. I agree with all you say but interpret it differently to validate my own belief for me and not to negate you, i get your truth, do what works for you, condemn what doesn't if that works for you, but you basically agreed with me in my view of seeing what someone says in other ways and hidden meanings, this was plain reversal and easy to spot, but also part of my outlook that turns curses and insults into blessings and praise, people who steal from me were just blessed cause i gave them something without knowing but the energy that i gave dominates, if someone does me wrong i will simply raise my fist and wear my wounds with pride, you must stick up for yourself son, never mind what anyone else done,

Sorry for dropping scripture, that last bit was from the Book of Yeasayer for you Nayayer lol, jk, but I am glad you highest form of truth is one we share, science, and it can be proven in steps to improve the way it helps humanity in time, i wish it was that easy for me and drop all else but I do have the advantage of not dealing with the you are wrong gambit in its pure form, mine is you are right but there is also this bit and this bit i would include, no worries if your basic response all sums down to but science can be proven and all that other stuff is false, maybe you might think harmful and bad as some do, and many parts are but most have abandoned those parts and kept the good, so thus my response boils down to riffing, discussing what i find awesome and healing for me, and accepting all views and await for those who do likewise to tell me how to actually improve and nudge me in new directions with their insights.

These debates offer edification but so much energy for little results. glad i stuck in and learned to accept atheism as a valid choice, science as a part of healing humanity system, and the good in those i once viciously debated as being harmful to me and the world at large, you guys have big hearts, big guns, and can argue the same things over and over again, i won;t always be here as i will be drawn somewhere else when the lessons run dry but i got more to learn from skeptics. carry on and man that hill before the enemy takes it while i simply flatten it because one time it was flat, and walk dandily across it mumbling stories with my staff i sometimes use to poke a branch in my way, a rock i want to move, but mostly so i walk well along this path and use magic to my best ability, this is a holy place, a church among many churches that community, i wish i knew you all better, Jessica Christ and my many other names here have ended, signing off,

mr walker, no monogamy is not the best system and was only enhanced as an illusion by romance genre of literature and song not so long ago when a princess said screw you dad i will marry who i want and not who you say i have to, and thus monogamy did flourish with the view we can choose for the first time, but romance is false man, buddhism tells us no one can promise love to another forever, monogamy of one person for one person is a convenience to order that part of their life and relationships, but truthfully we have many partners sometimes, marriage is more a legal entity than a true spiritual bonding mage magical and sanctified by saying i do, even the prostitute had true bonds with a few clients that led to enduring friendships and healthy interactions, cause like you said it aint about sex, but if monagamy was so perfect prositites would not exist, and because monogamy is god stammped in some views jesus said marriage is a worldly thing and we wont have the same spouse in heaven,

learn to divide the book between eternal truth and temporal conveniences that only began because of problems, will end when we solve them, and pagans are steps ahead man, able to divorce after a year and a day, can remary the next year....

truth be told for millions of years we were loyal to each other as groups, men and women in tribes, and they all had babies, had favorites, the lucky jackpot winners of genetics had more sex probably but all had a go at it on some day of the month or something, when they crossed this ridge at least once a year the less desirable males and females were given equal footing, because even the shape of the male instrument to insert genetic material has a scoop to help pull out some competing dna with ours, and science proved when jealous a male will thrust harder, so good try for the small guy, even if the big man was more beneficial due to woman also being able to enjoy the big o, oxytocin was guranteed to all in some form, so we were not dopamine dopamine no oxytocin reward haywire like now, and oxytocin leads to the sense of bonding, a gift from god, using chemicals we now can explain with science, the default relationship is more like a free love hippy scene but not because it was counter cultural but imperative to our surivival, so we must bridge the two and while i love the myth of monogamy one there is one right one for me god chose, it is a myth so any sadness from it is soothed, and even in the OT if the husband died the next brother got a new wife lol, and if there was none she was widowed and everyone was obligated to take care of her, now monogamy is i cant be bothered about the widow cause i got probs and need to focus on wife so none will be had.

 

selfish selfish selfish that lacks much to be desired before claiming it is the right way, for now maybe, for you yes, but it is more of hassle then not, and many churches were divorce? ok the man can stay as a memeber, the ex wife, well she is not welcome no more, thus even the church failed at protecting their women, cause of monogamy, and ancient tribal laws and early greek and roman ideas on men being leaders instead of support team cause the default was women rule and science proves this as they can have way more partners in one go than one man can offer

so many tribes then most likely had very strong women who were the leaders and ran the show and many many men to support that effort, women probably eliminated each other then, so it wasn't perfect and this last bit of agressive actions of women is speculative, maybe more just died in childbirth so there was more men, but we evolved with a few women marrying many men, and that is what god ordained for most of humanity, and even if monagamy was an improvement it failed in keeping the core units of tribe and family together leading to clans, sects, city states, kingdoms, sovereign nations, then intranational alliances and suprastates competing and letting family and marriage go to the way side. it is about the babies being taken care of first then, and the women who can actually carry them to term, being the prized source of life, and worth willing to fight, die, bond, and cooperate, and when we lost that we lost our path where it was both spiritual and physical, and now we walk a path of flesh, we will restore the spiritual path first of all by understanding romance is dead, and i am loyal to my joan of arc yes, but many boys follow her too, the men are busy protecting their power, we fight for women, our lady, we are not lancelot, or the king, we are the true warriors who follow the miracles and the woman who others condemn, burn, execute, do not want because they dont fit in, but good for all who have and maintained their traditional roles even as everything else it was based on falls apart.

and marriage and death should not cost much, if wealthy spend moderately but will seem lavish, if not it will seem less but it is the same proportion, the only thing missing for some is dancing towards their wife like king david did. i made sure to do that later in life and it was a second private ceremony.

and when we no longer have old women giving information to the younger of how to best mother and wife, and men supporting men in the same vain, and some meeting of the two, open book discussion without hiding anything, it worked better, when we had matchmakers who made sure people would always be married no matter what, and when we started drinking at the bar, ranting on the wife, saying how horrible hubby is when womens gather, we lost the plot

when men quit praising the noble wife at the gate we stopped following the proverbs of the bible. when monogamy in the church looks like this then i will give it some credit but it does not.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

An excellent wife who can find? She is far more precious than jewels.
	Pro 31:11	The heart of her husband trusts in her, and he will have no lack of gain.
	Pro 31:12	She does him good, and not harm, all the days of her life.
	Pro 31:13	She seeks wool and flax, and works with willing hands.
	Pro 31:14	She is like the ships of the merchant; she brings her food from afar.
	Pro 31:15	She rises while it is yet night and provides food for her household and portions for her maidens.
	Pro 31:16	She considers a field and buys it; with the fruit of her hands she plants a vineyard.
	Pro 31:17	She dresses herself [fn] with strength and makes her arms strong.
	Pro 31:18	She perceives that her merchandise is profitable. Her lamp does not go out at night.
	Pro 31:19	She puts her hands to the distaff, and her hands hold the spindle.
	Pro 31:20	She opens her hand to the poor and reaches out her hands to the needy.
	Pro 31:21	She is not afraid of snow for her household, for all her household are clothed in scarlet. [fn]
	Pro 31:22	She makes bed coverings for herself; her clothing is fine linen and purple.
	Pro 31:23	Her husband is known in the gates when he sits among the elders of the land.
	Pro 31:24	She makes linen garments and sells them; she delivers sashes to the merchant.
	Pro 31:25	Strength and dignity are her clothing, and she laughs at the time to come.
	Pro 31:26	She opens her mouth with wisdom, and the teaching of kindness is on her tongue.
	Pro 31:27	She looks well to the ways of her household and does not eat the bread of idleness.
	Pro 31:28	Her children rise up and call her blessed; her husband also, and he praises her:
	Pro 31:29	"Many women have done excellently, but you surpass them all."
	Pro 31:30	Charm is deceitful, and beauty is vain, but a woman who fears the LORD is to be praised.
	Pro 31:31	Give her of the fruit of her hands, and let her works praise her in the gates.     Reveal hidden contents

You too readily dismiss the power and influence of human self awareness in the construction of concepts like romantic love

 I will take just one error from your post. The buddhists ( if they really say this) are wrong to say that no one can promise to love another for ever. I did and so far Ive keptvit easily for45 years.  Almost every member of our families made that promise and kept it until they died.

Thats because all concepts are constructs and a human being can maintin them for ever if they commit to doing so. Romantic love and similar intellectual constructs like duty, honour, loyalty, are what make us human, and different to all other life on earth.

They give us choices,  and with the freedom to chose, they give us responsibilty to choose wisely.They mean we can and will be held accountable for every choice we make, by our on mind and by others.

[Duke Wellington]

1 hour ago, XenoFish said:

Where did this god come from, before space, before time? Who or what created god? Again this feeds into the eternal question.

Even if we live in a multi-verse it doesn't matter anyway, we're stuck in this reality. It doesn't matter if version-7373 of earth has a real god or not, it's not my reality. Not this reality either. 

Is human reasoning and logic infallible?

One thing University taught me is that everyone is completely convinced of their own worldview. They dont self-criticise. And this applies as much to atheists as it does to theists. Yet our society seems to talk up the atheist worldview and almost takes a cult of personality approach to its proponents like Stephen Hawking.

I am sat there listening to these proponents of atheism claiming that science means this and science means that. Yet I'm intelligent, I'm educated, and it allows me to see through what they're saying. Everyone, atheist or theist is feeding you BS. Yet you only allow yourself to question, criticise, and see through the BS that is against your own worldview.

Its like the fake news on social media which the American electoral system have been complaining about. If its an article a group of people want to hear then they accept it as the truth.

If you investigate the possibility that God exists then why would it need a creator? Why would it need to come before our space and time? You are expecting God to comply with your own reasoning and logic. Its the kind of arrogance we all suffer from and a process we usually dont see occurring within ourselves.

God or the universe or whatever there is out there does not have to comply with what you or I see as rational, logical and scientific. It is what it is and cares not for what we think it should be.

As regards myself I went from atheist to open minded about religion. All it takes is an information searching session into such topics as 'criticisms of materialism' and 'criticisms of reductionism' and 'criticisms of determinism' and 'criticisms of maths' and 'criticisms of the big bang' and 'criticisms of relativity' and 'criticisms of classical mechanics' and 'criticisms of evolution' and on and on with hundreds of topics.

We have the internet and we live in the information age so people should try using it.

When they seek out the flaws, inconsistencies, assumptions, and faulty reasoning that underpins the logical arguments for all worldviews then they become wise. Faced with the conclusion that we really know nothing about anything they switch to a more pragmatic approach to life. One where quality of life and enjoyment are all that matter.

And whether you like it or not religion contains an approach to life which gives you that quality and enjoyment. And hence why its far more useful to me than atheism. Atheism just seems to produce negative angry egotistic people who dont get along with each other properly because each is only really interested in themselves.

[Mr Walker]

2 hours ago, XenoFish said:

If any holy scripture needs interpretation then it is wrong. 

No two humans can interpret a simple sentence, identically, because they bring to it their own different experience based realities.   So certainly nothing as complex as theology or scripture can ever be read or understood without interpretation. Even the omission or misplacement of a comma can totally change the meaning of a sentence .

When scripture has been translated through several languages a lot will also be lost or altered each time. 

[XenoFish]

If you want to live your life as a member of a cult while talking with your imaginary friend, that's fine by me. Just don't proclaim your god is real without proof. Shepards, sheep, and slaughter houses. That's what it all is.

[Clarakore]

37 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

I can only feel extremely sorry for you missing out on so much of human reality.There is a lot more i could add about your supreme arrogance in trying to argue that your disbelief is somehow more valid than my lifetime of experiences but its not worth my while.

Finally i explained that gods manifestion caused changes in my life which resulted in hundreds of lives being saved snd thosands improved This is factual reality. So yes of course my wife and I made those changes but they would never have happened if god had not physically manifested in my life and changed all my priorities.  Thus ultimately god is responsible, by changing me. What part of this dont you believe and why do you suppose we would have chosen to give awy almost a million dollars over 40 years if NOT for the intervention of god? 

Finally and very simply I would have died a number of times without the direct physical intervention of god. Thus if god did not exist, i would not be here now having this conversation with you.  And to suggest that those who experience or believe in a god are mentally ill, is rude, and shows the depth of your own deophobia. 

From within my experince i could argue that those who refuse to acknowledge God's presence when he is clearly all around them,  are the mentally ill ones

pit'-i (chamal, chuc; eleeo): "Pity," probably contracted from "piety," is tender feeling for others in misery or distress. It is allied to compassion (which see), but differs in respect of the object that causes the distress (or feeling). The feeling of pity is excited chiefly by the weakness, miserable or degraded condition of the object; compassion by his uncontrollable and inevitable misfortunes: "We pity a man of weak understanding who exposes his weakness; we compassionate the man who is reduced to a state of beggary and want" (Crabb, English Synonyms). Pity often becomes allied to contempt; "a pity" is something to be regretted. See PITIFUL. In the Old Testament "pity" is closely akin to "mercy." It is most frequently the translation of chamal, "to pity," "to spare," e.g. in Nathan's parable of the poor man's one lamb, it is said that the rich man was worthy to die because he had "no pity" (2 Samuel 12:6).

In Jeremiah 13:14 we have, "I will not pity nor spare, nor have mercy,

where is your mercy master walker?

Jeremiah 33:3New International Version (NIV)

³ ‘Call to me and I will answer you and tell you great and unsearchable things you do not know.’

[Mr Walker]

2 hours ago, XenoFish said:

You are not talking to god, you are talking to yourself. Your subbconscious. Easy way to understand this is to ask yourself a question. Like the name of the actor/actress of your favorite movie character when you can't remember their name. Give it time and you'll remember. It's all self-hypnosis/self-suggestion and god is the metaphysical placebo to take conscious worry off asking yourself something. Just a tool. All the gods are this way. 

No. Some gods give you answers and knowledge, even abilites, which you cannot get from your own isolated human mind. One example is where a god gives a clear and specific advanced warning of danger, to allow you to avoid it. Another is where you are lost in a place you dont know and god gives you clear and specific directions on how to find your way to where you need to go. One of the handiest is where god directs you to the only vacant parking spot in a  car park.  Another good one is when he consistently gives you winning numbers for the lotto or winners in a horse race.  A god can give all sorts of useful and practical advice, from your love life to business investments.

One of the ways of identifying an independently existent god is whether it can impart knowledge,  skills, or wisdom, you cannot possibly get from within your own mind.

[Clarakore]

12 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

No two humans can interpret a simple sentence, identically, because they bring to it their own different experience based realities.   So certainly nothing as complex as theology or scripture can ever be read or understood without interpretation. Even the omission or misplacement of a comma can totally change the meaning of a sentence .

When scripture has been translated through several languages a lot will also be lost or altered each time. 

Forgot to add in the begining is also now. The eternal NOW, present is all that is real, past and future illusions, one scientific view is it is tied into gravity, so basically in the beginning is not even a one time beginning as common speech would tell us, the first and last day are one day, now, creation, mary conceived without sin, jesus born of a virgin, even if she was raped or flinged joseph and kin backed her, that was a true miracle instead of runing her for life and the baby, the ministry, crucicixion, resurrection, ascension, day of judgment, all happened at once.

[Mr Walker]

6 minutes ago, I hide behind words said:

pit'-i (chamal, chuc; eleeo): "Pity," probably contracted from "piety," is tender feeling for others in misery or distress. It is allied to compassion (which see), but differs in respect of the object that causes the distress (or feeling). The feeling of pity is excited chiefly by the weakness, miserable or degraded condition of the object; compassion by his uncontrollable and inevitable misfortunes: "We pity a man of weak understanding who exposes his weakness; we compassionate the man who is reduced to a state of beggary and want" (Crabb, English Synonyms). Pity often becomes allied to contempt; "a pity" is something to be regretted. See PITIFUL. In the Old Testament "pity" is closely akin to "mercy." It is most frequently the translation of chamal, "to pity," "to spare," e.g. in Nathan's parable of the poor man's one lamb, it is said that the rich man was worthy to die because he had "no pity" (2 Samuel 12:6).

In Jeremiah 13:14 we have, "I will not pity nor spare, nor have mercy,

where is your mercy master walker?

Jeremiah 33:3New International Version (NIV)

³ ‘Call to me and I will answer you and tell you great and unsearchable things you do not know.’

Lol its just that i fell so sorry for people who are limited in their understanding of reality. So many humans are afraid, angry, lonely, envious, depressed etc when  they should be all the opposite  things. We are not meant to be any of those things We are meant to be filled with joy purpose connection etc. This is really serious. In australia suicide is the biggest cause of death in men under about 40 and in all young people. It is the 13th highest cause of ALL deaths 

 

 My mercy is expressed in my taking the time to tell them that their lives do not have to be so confined and restricted. They can be liberated from all fears  and negative emotions and live happy, peaceful, purposeful and contented lives

[Clarakore]

1 minute ago, Mr Walker said:

No. Some gods give you answers and knowledge, even abilites, which you cannot get from your own isolated human mind. One example is where a god gives a clear and specific advanced warning of danger, to allow you to avoid it. Another is where you are lost in a place you dont know and god gives you clear and specific directions on how to find your way to where you need to go. One of the handiest is where god directs you to the only vacant parking spot in a  car park.  Another good one is when he consistently gives you winning numbers for the lotto or winners in a horse race.  A god can give all sorts of useful and practical advice, from your love life to business investments.

One of the ways of identifying an independently existent god is whether it can impart knowledge,  skills, or wisdom, you cannot possibly get from within your own mind.

Some claim intuition is a spiritual gift from god, a feeling in the pit of the stomach before danger as an example, using augurs for direction was practiced by roman believers, being calm and finding the right way is a true blessing if it leads us out a complex maze of streets that would upset one usually, one view is if you honor the Genius Loci, or spirit of place, your car spot will be there for you lots, another view is park far and walk as it is healthy and be sure to not go a to b and rush but enjoy the walk and any convo with another, or if alone commune with environment mindfully to get in tune with self, no worrying, the gods are fickle when it comes to giving love and business advice but a bit better now than when delivered by the pythia who some realized the advice given was true and not how they took it and staked all on, there is no way to identify an independent god because no proof will be given, believe that is all you can do, faith is a gift, belief is your only labor required, and the human mind is how god works in us, and we are connected to all, your being is not just you alive now in a body, a time and place for things is temporary, the division of dark and light is temporary, fish and fowl, ferengi and hu-man, temporary,all created from the darkness, from nothing, all was made, on substance did it, spiritual substance, breath, word, aether or air in that sense, is what all else is made from, the word was made flesh but is not from here, neither are you pilgrim our home is not here, quit fighting over it walker, and quit making god separate from us and from our mind, we are all part of the body, you might be the head, but we are the feet, and hands, so do your part and leave the non believers who do believe and will, and that is eternal, and do their part now, to do their work, all of humanity is the ultimate church, we are one, who cares if the hand and feet might say you are wrong, come on head you are hearing things, your hands and feet are not arguing with you, and dont cut us off please, we now plead in voices that craze you lolol, because how will you do what you need missing a limb, instead let me have your tongue or an eye, cut it out now,

[Clarakore]

12 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

Lol its just that i fell so sorry for people who are limited in their understanding of reality. So many humans are afraid, angry, lonely, envious, depressed etc when  they should be all the opposite  things. We are not meant to be any of those things We are meant to be filled with joy purpose connection etc. This is really serious. In australia suicide is the biggest cause of death in men under about 40 and in all young people. It is the 13th highest cause of ALL deaths 

 

 My mercy is expressed in my taking the time to tell them that their lives do not have to be so confined and restricted. They can be liberated from all fears  and negative emotions and live happy, peaceful, purposeful and contented lives

you do feel sorry i know it, and it is a good way to do it, i know the true you because it is good and from god, and we are all afraid lonely etc and we are meant to all be the opposite which is really fullness and not lacking of anything or blessing, so come on no need to further make others feel loney and depress them because some are not happy until we say god is dead but nihilishm from nietchze is not total truth,i will pray for the suicide wave and flooding that drowns many thee in aussie over suicide, my sister commited it, i wanted to ever since i was a young teen, i have been healed from that and i dont know how, but thank god, so ive been there, and i will pray about this, and tell others it is bad there, my mom and sis, pop and step, will naturally do what they do without me telling them to pray, in their own way they will address it with their own separate sense of religion which i see as one, be it christian, santeria, fundie, new age, all for you, light work be done, blessings be given, mourning be sung, and our cries will be heard up in heaven, and our praise will then be heard as it comes to and suicide leaves oz, thank you for turing judas siucide into a blessing and having the hypocrites who claimed to be priest to make a potters grave to help the foreigner, theiir truth work which ignored you still had them perform even if they were using negative ways and the money was blood money bothing leaving and being accepted back in treasury so they can raid it, but you used it for some who did suciide or died, and had no one tom bury them because no place was available,  you do have mercy in that manner but that is intention and eternal truth but it is manifesting as not merciful, misericordia as we say in spanish, so not your fault, the seed is falling not on fertile ground, the same ground, one time  it is the wayside, another era stony, and will be fully fertile  NOW, i ask god to lessen the lag, so in this one issue of mercy the seed falls and prospers, dont add to their confinment and restrictions by making them feel separated from you, i dont know how to do that lol, but i know it is possible, i try and fall short as you know with them, allow the gifts of love and trust to grow in walker, bless him with these fruits now, and doing so will be an instrument for your gifts and power cominig from love will ally the fears and negatifvity of thoise he encounters, let him be your blessing without trying, show me too, so it is

Edited April 8, 2017 by I hide behind words

[Mr Walker]

16 minutes ago, I hide behind words said:

Some claim intuition is a spiritual gift from god, a feeling in the pit of the stomach before danger as an example, using augurs for direction was practiced by roman believers, being calm and finding the right way is a true blessing if it leads us out a complex maze of streets that would upset one usually, one view is if you honor the Genius Loci, or spirit of place, your car spot will be there for you lots, another view is park far and walk as it is healthy and be sure to not go a to b and rush but enjoy the walk and any convo with another, or if alone commune with environment mindfully to get in tune with self, no worrying, the gods are fickle when it comes to giving love and business advice but a bit better now than when delivered by the pythia who some realized the advice given was true and not how they took it and staked all on, there is no way to identify an independent god because no proof will be given, believe that is all you can do, faith is a gift, belief is your only labor required, and the human mind is how god works in us, and we are connected to all, your being is neot just you alive now in a body, a time and place for things is temporary, the division of dark and light is temporary, fish and fowl, ferengi and hu-man, temporary,all created from the darkness, from nothing, all was made, on substance did it, spiritual substance, breath, word, aether or air in that sense, is what all else is made from, the word was made flesh but is not from here, neither are yo u pilgrim our home is not here, quit fighting over it walker, and quit makinh and such because her wil be a major accident therg god separate from us and from our mind, we are all part of the body, you might be the head, but we are the feet, and hands, so do your part and leave the non believers who do believe and will, and that is eternal, and do their part now, to do their work, all of humanity is the ultimate church, we are one, who cares if the hand and feet might say you are wrong, come on head you are hearing things, your hands and feet are not arguing with you, and dont cut us off please, we now plead in voices that craze you lolol, because how will you do what you need mcomissing a limb, instead let me have your tongue or an eye, cut it out now,

In my case its more than intuition It is clear and specific directions about where to go or not go  eg turn left at the next stret  or walk up the hill til you find a dead tree, then turn right, walk 200 paces and you will be back at your campsite Ocassionally god will give a message like," dont get on that plane its going to have engine trouble and have to return here or Tomorrow when driving to work avoid the intersection of such and such because there will be a major crash there. It takes a bit of a knack to keep your mind open to these messages and also to recognise them, but with time and practice they become part of your general awareness 

I am sorry but i cant comprehend a lot of your recent posts which seem to have developed a stream of consciousness style and use concepts  of your own making with which I am not familiar

Edited April 8, 2017 by Mr Walker

[Clarakore]

16 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

In my case its more than intuition It is clear and specific directions about where to go or not go  eg turn left at the next stret  or walk up the hill til you find a dead tree, theciousness style and use concepts i am notn turn right, walk 200 paces and you will be back at your campsite Ocassionally god will give a message like," dont get on that plane its going to have engine troble and have to return here or Tomorrow when driving to work avoid the intersection of such and such because there will be a major crash there. It takes a bit of a knack to keep your mind open to these messages and also to recognise them, but with time and practice they become part of your general awareness 

I am soory but i cant comprehemd a lot of your recent posts which seem to have developed a stream of consciousness style and use concepts  of your own making with which I am not familiar

cool lol on me not actually using english even if it appears so, but here we go about intutiton, it is god, it is evolution, and being alive and breathing is also a miracle from god

all this proves god to me, why do you ignore these miracles and use this big one for proof, you got this gift cause you need more faith, a little more faith, we know your pain, we are with you, pm me some time walker or i will see you on another thread soon you are right but id rather be wrong and be closer to god out of my insecurity, that i am not close is belief is, my failing of truth, but id rather be that than being right but farther from having faith, i got a little mustard seed finally last year, it is now a baby bush, finally i am so happy about that one big worry gone and i no longer need to cry and fear and say the verse of i have faith, i have no faith, give me more faith, or whatever the verse says since i dont say it no more the way i used to repeat that prayer, but i am far far far and i too need more faith and to believe you all are with me, you know my pain, and the cry of telling me i need a little more faith

in the end find out where you lack walker, where you falll short, where you are wrong, it is between you and GOD and has been all along, then you can better tell a believer where they fall short in their walk of belief, be kind to the skeptics mate if you can lol, but i would rather get clues based on our beliefs from believers than debate the way we do with them and they with us, so even if we change it appears the same, because of their overpowering energy we use by default but it isnt godly energy and done out of flesh and takes up energy better used to find fault in our own view, find the flake over the eye, the mirror is foggy but not as much, then you will see fully and lol it is you, all along it is you, the great I AM god we claim is you, at first we see dimly like a mirror barely lit, i dont even exist until you see yourself in me and others and proceed in unity based on spirit not beliefs and debaates, but they are fun lol and can be had with good energy that grows, not bad energy, still flesh and vanity, but closer to danger time where it must be HIS WORDS GIVEN and we dont think of what we will say, we are not taken to the courts for trial to be killed, we are not persecuted, so no need for that now, but a few moments now and then it will be words from god and prophecy and not your own thoughts

Edited April 8, 2017 by I hide behind words

[Mr Walker]

1 minute ago, I hide behind words said:

cool lol on me not actually using english even if it appears so, but here we go about intutiton, it is god, it is evolution, and being alive and breathing is also a miracle from god

all this proves god to me, why do you ignore these miracles and use this big one for proof, you got this gift cause you need more faith, a little more faith, we know your pain, we are with you, pm me some time walker or i will see you on another thread soon you are right but id rather be wrong and be closer to god out of my insecurity that i am not close, my failing, than right but farther from having faith, i got a little mustard seed finally last year, it is now a baby bush, finally i am so happy about that one big worry gone and i no longer need to cry and fear and say the verse of i have faith, i have no faith, give me more faith, or whatever the verse says since i dont say it no more lots, but i am far far far and i too need more faith and to believe you all are with me, you know my pain, and the cry of telling me i need a little more faith

Oh woe is me. Clearly no one really gets me at all.I just cant see where people get these ideas about me.

For example there is no pain in my life That was the point I have been trying to make .Pain and suffering are choices we make for ourselves. I chose peace contentment connection love and joy.w Everything is a gift from god; life, love, talents, courage etc. I suppose ive been blessed with these for so long that I just take them as normal. It is the bigger things which stick out and seem more remarkable/ less normal

I am really happy to hear you are feeling better and more confident about things.

[Mr Walker]

25 minutes ago, I hide behind words said:

you do feel sorry i know it, and it is a good way to do it, i know the true you because it is good and from god, and we are all afraid lonely etc and we are meant to all be the opposite which is really fullness and not lacking of anything or blessing, so come on no need to further make others feel loney and depress them because some are not happy until we say god is dead but nihilishm from nietchze is not total truth,i will pray for the suicide wave and flooding that drowns many thee in aussie over suicide, my sister commited it, i wanted to ever since i was a young teen, i have been healed from that and i dont know how, but thank god, so ive been there, and i will pray about this, and tell others it is bad there, my mom and sis, pop and step, will naturally do what they do without me telling them to pray, in their own way they will address it with their own separate sense of religion which i see as one, be it christian, santeria, fundie, new age, all for you, light work be done, blessings be given, mourning be sung, and our cries will be heard up in heaven, and our praise will then be heard as it comes to and suicide leaves oz, thank you for turing judas siucide into a blessing and having the hypocrites who claimed to be priest to make a potters grave to help the foreigner, theiir truth work which ignored you still had them perform even if they were using negative ways and the money was blood money bothing leaving and being accepted back in treasury so they can raid it, but you used it for some who did suciide or died, and had no one tom bury them because no place was available,  you do have mercy in that manner but that is intention and eternal truth but it is manifesting as not merciful, misericordia as we say in spanish, so not your fault, the seed is falling not on fertile ground, the same ground, one time  it is the wayside, another era stony, and will be fully fertile  NOW, i ask god to lessen the lag, so in this one issue of mercy the seed falls and prospers, dont add to their confinment and restrictions by making them feel separated from you, i dont know how to do that lol, but i know it is possible, i try and fall short as you know with them, allow the gifts of love and trust to grow in walker, bless him with these fruits now, and doing so will be an instrument for your gifts and power cominig from love will ally the fears and negatifvity of thoise he encoounters, let him be your blessing without trying, show me too, so it is

Thank you for your prayers, but be careful. They are very powerful and can be answered in ways you dont expect. Having lost a loved one  to suicide I can feel for your loss but It is good to hear that you are more confident about your own emotional health. i just worked out that you are bilingual which might explain your writing style. I will take more time to read your posts. I have great respect for anyone who can speak more than one language.

[Rlyeh]

2 hours ago, I hide behind words said:

nice insight there thank you but i would like to see proof of this, where did you learn this?

A number of books describes the evolution of Yahweh even taking El's consort Asherah

https://books.google.com.au/books?id=G49SJI183IkC&redir_esc=y&hl=en

https://books.google.com.au/books?id=JBhY9BQ7hIQC

https://books.google.com.au/books?id=eMneBAAAQBAJ

https://books.google.com.au/books?id=bua2dMa9fJ4C&pg=PA45&redir_esc=y&hl=en#v=onepage&q&f=false

2 hours ago, I hide behind words said:

and the process of us being creators was innate to us without the ability to even invent and discuss the concept of creator, and we also had the view of higher forces, at one time it was our ancestors, and we should have not forgotten and dishonor them for they are the ones who look for us, another time was environment, so lighting and storm gods, the greeks personalized those gods so we had personal relationships, the semites did have many hills and each had a god, but it was not personal but for the tribe, but where is this first instance of a CREATOR being credited to the semites? I need to learn, know, and see for myself if not no worries i will find it one day,

Nothing more than superstitious stories.

[+Hammerclaw]

2 hours ago, XenoFish said:

If you want to live your life as a member of a cult while talking with your imaginary friend, that's fine by me. Just don't proclaim your god is real without proof. Shepards, sheep, and slaughter houses. That's what it all is.

If there is a Creator, it may impinge upon our perceptual reality the way a three dimensional object would on a hypothetical two dimensional universe: incomprehensibly.

Edited April 8, 2017 by Hammerclaw

[Clarakore]

1 hour ago, Hammerclaw said:

If there is a Creator, it may impinge upon our perceptual reality the way a three dimensional object would on a hypothetical two dimensional universe: incomprehensibly.

We have today's award winner!

One possible implication is that reality is actually two-dimensional, and the three-dimensional world is merely an illusion, which would explain some of the wackiness of quantum mechanics.

All of these views of the world — those that we perceive in our minds, and those that physicists discover in the universe — are flavors of reality. What humans perceive as reality may be no more than an illusion. But in the end, maybe that doesn't matter. 

was posted with the title of

Reality Check: Is Our Universe Real?

@http://www.livescience.com/38234-is-reality-real-or-not.html

also what we see is not steady stream live but delayed signal, partial signal, that our mind processes into live stream in the present,

we see the past so it will be hard to be present focused much less control the future by automatic elimination of not relying on the past

and of course reality is greater dimensions than what science can currently measure and eventually if there is more beyond that dimension science might not be a good tool for measurment

 

it would also save so much energy if what we see is partial and our mind processes it as reality

some can see beyond and the article even gives a nod to stage magicians for using the higher dimension to create illusion

no mention of real low magic practitioners who also use it but not for show and not to trick but to break illusion once we no longer need it to protect our childish eyes who does not want to be woke with harsh lighting

call your mommy to soothe you back to bed cause sometimes light cannot be hid and it hurts to transition especially those who are called to help it shine as it controls lots just as our sun controls by regulation and power sourcing us and life as we know

Edited April 8, 2017 by I hide behind words

[XenoFish]

The more I'm around you religious types the more sickened I get. Some of the things you're willing to believe. It's sad really.

[Mr Walker]

5 hours ago, XenoFish said:

The more I'm around you religious types the more sickened I get. Some of the things you're willing to believe. It's sad really.

I bet you are saddened and sickened by many things. Just remember "Always look on the bright side of life da dum da dum."

Even if you see belief and religion as mere social constructs, as an evolutionist you should be able to see that such constructs do not evolve or persist, unless they are generally productive in outcome. Overall, faith, belief and religion, evolved and persist because they are good and positive attributes, which benefit both individuals and societies.

It is you who is out of step with this functional reality of human existence. We are wired, not only for faith and belief, but towards hope and optimism, as survival mechanisms.

 

Edited April 9, 2017 by Mr Walker

[XenoFish]

1 minute ago, Mr Walker said:

I bet you are saddened and sickened by many things. Just remember "Always look on the bright side of life da dum da dum."

Even if you see belief and religion as mere social constructs, as an evolutionist you should be able to see that such constructs do no evolve or persist unless they are generally productive in outcome. Overall, faith, belief and religion evolved and persist because they are good and positive attributes which benefit both individuals and societies.

 

 

It's called a meme. Not just the images I and others point. It's also a mental virus and those are hard to get rid of. 

[StarMountainKid]

I think if God came to the Earth, God would become a dolphin or otter or some playful animal, have some fun then return to Wherever. Why would God want to present to humans?

[GoldenWolf]

6 minutes ago, StarMountainKid said:

Why would God want to present to humans

With all the negative karma he has...........

[Mr Walker]

17 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

It's called a meme. Not just the images I and others point. It's also a mental virus and those are hard to get rid of. 

No. it is an evolved cognitive property of a self aware mind. It evolved to help people cope, to provide ways to resolve guilt and conscience etc. It can be used for good or evil but this is always a free willed and informed choice by the person who makes the choice.

Humans are cognitively programmed by evolution not only to believe and have faith, but to be optimistic rather than pessimistic. This is how a self aware mind survives its awreness of the nature of itself and the world around it, without driving its self mad.

A meme is a social construct passed on via culture. While specific religions might be thought of as memes, the religion belief or faith of an individual is, by the nature of human cognition, a genetic cognitive imperative existing in all self aware beings ie we individually construct our own unique faith or belief as we do with everything in life based on the unique experiences of our lives and minds.

Edited April 9, 2017 by Mr Walker