How will God prove himself?

[Truthseeker007]

6 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

Well I'm not big on "assuming" what someone believed/taught "was actually" what they believed/taught. Especially when it was only first mentioned AFTER THEY DIED. How convenient for the believer I guess.

cormac

Not to mention he didn't even write anything himself yet the bible is called Gods word by many.

[+Hammerclaw]

1 minute ago, Truthseeker007 said:

That is very good how you put that but I will say my contention is that the Bible Jesus never existed as one person and are stories created by authors much like Marvel Comics does in this day. But you are free to believe in him if it makes your life better. I know when I was a Cristian for over 20 years believing in him did not make my life any better and in fact not very good at all. To each their own I guess.

I kind of think of it like the Book version of The Hobbit compared to the Peter Jackson version. Like I said, it's a matter of belief and it's disingenuous to demand proof of belief and a fool's quest to try to provide it.

[Truthseeker007]

2 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

I kind of think of it like the Book version of The Hobbit compared to the Peter Jackson version. Like I said, it's a matter of belief and it's disingenuous to demand proof of belief and a fool's quest to try to provide it.

Well the whole problem is none of us were there so we could debate about it all day never changing each others mind. Especially a man of your intelligence it would like trying to stop my dad from being an atheist.lol!! I am not an atheist myself I believe God to be more energy and consciousness. I feel we all have different paths. One is needing to follow a teacher and the other teaching themselves. All are part of this great learning experience we have on this 3D Earth in the middle of the Universe. All of it is a journey for we are always moving even on this Earth.

[cormac mac airt]

19 minutes ago, Will Due said:

Can I be honest?

I do not assume anything. What I do is faith based. If there's anything that's obvious to me about this "belief in God and live a religious life thing, it's that the most important factor is faith. Nothing comes of it otherwise.

The lesser the factor that faith is, the lesser the results.

Really?

Quote

 

Definition of faith

plural faiths play \ˈfāths, sometimes ˈfāt͟hz\1a : allegiance to duty or a person : loyalty 

lost faith in the company's president

b (1) : fidelity to one's promises 

(2) : sincerity of intentions 

acted in good faith

2a (1) : belief and trust in and loyalty to God 

(2) : belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion

b (1) : firm belief in something for which there is no proof 

clinging to the faith that her missing son would one day return

(2) : complete trust

3: something that is believed especially with strong conviction; especially : a system of religious beliefs 

the Protestant faith

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/faith

Quote

 

Definition of assumption

1: a taking to or upon oneself 

the assumption of a new position

2: the act of laying claim to or taking possession of something 

the assumption of power

3a : an assuming that something is true 

a mistaken assumption

b : a fact or statement (such as a proposition, axiom (see axiom 2), postulate, or notion) taken for granted

4a : the taking up of a person into heaven

b capitalized : August 15 observed in commemoration of the Assumption of the Virgin Mary

5: the taking over of another's debts

6: arrogance, pretension

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/assumption

 

I don't see a difference between "something believed with strong conviction" and "a statement taken for granted", do you? They both require the same thing IMO. 

cormac

Edited August 16, 2018 by cormac mac airt

[+Hammerclaw]

1 minute ago, Truthseeker007 said:

Well the whole problem is none of us were there so we could debate about it all day never changing each others mind. Especially a man of your intelligence it would like trying to stop my dad from being an atheist.lol!! I am not an atheist myself I believe God to be more energy and consciousness. I feel we all have different paths. One is needing to follow a teacher and the other teaching themselves. All are part of this great learning experience we have on this 3D Earth in the middle of the Universe. All of it is a journey for we are always moving even on this Earth.

To me, it's all symbols and religion is a language of symbols whose meaning vary from one religion to another. I follow the dictates of my own heart and use the symbols I'm accustomed to. God, if such a thing exists, is beyond imagining and certainly no anthropomorphic hairy thunderer, wreathed in clouds, casting thunderbolts. My thoughts, as do yours, soar beyond the earthly confines of religion and embrace the Universe.

[ChrLzs]

6 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

To me ... God, if such a thing exists, is beyond imagining {and} soar{s} beyond the earthly confines of religion and embrace{s} the Universe.

Let's take that further.   I betcha this God did in fact create the entire Universe, and hasn't yet spotted the tiny outbreak of life in the Milky Way (let's face it - God has much to keep an eye on...).

When we *do* get spotted, there's gunna be big trouble.

Edited August 16, 2018 by ChrLzs

[Truthseeker007]

8 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

tTo me, it's all symbols and religion is a language of symbols whose meaning vary from one religion to another. I follow the dictates of my own heart and use the symbols I'm accustomed to. God, if such a thing exists, is beyond imagining and certainly no anthropomorphic hairy thunderer, wreathed in clouds, casting thunderbolts. My thoughts, as do yours, soar beyond the earthly confines of religion and embrace the Universe.

Well I think it has been said at some point that all is God so even a tree can be a symbol of God. So we should be free to bow down and worship that tree if we want. I mean don't get me wrong I want freedom for all to believe what people want to. But I just enjoy debating the subject.It really is an interesting topic and how all religions and beliefs unfold. What do you think of the symbols sometimes we see in fields? There are many.lol!!

Edited August 16, 2018 by Truthseeker007

[Will Due]

1 minute ago, ChrLzs said:

Let's take that further.   I betcha this God did in fact create the entire Universe, and hasn't yet spotted the tiny outbreak of life in the Milky Way (let's face it - God has much to keep an eye on...).

When we *do* get spotted, there's gunna be big trouble.

 

You can say that again lol.

 

 

[Will Due]

10 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

Really?

I don't see a difference between "something believed with strong conviction" and "a statement taken for granted", do you? They both require the same thing IMO. 

cormac

 

Well to me, they're entirely different. 

 

 

[Truthseeker007]

I find this interesting:

“It should be understood that all species of life, O son of Kunte, are made possible by birth in this material nature, and that I am the seed-giving father.” (Lord Krishna, Bhagavad-Gita 14.4)

“I am the father of this universe, the mother, the support and the grandsire. I am the object of knowledge, the purifier and the syllable om. I am also the Rg, the Sama and the Yajur Vedas.” (Lord Krishna, Bhagavad-Gita 9.17)

[cormac mac airt]

Just now, Will Due said:

Well to me, they're entirely different. 

One can just as easily have "something believed with strong conviction" be wrong as much as it could be right (as conviction doesn't make something right), just as one could have something "taken for granted" be wrong as much as it could be right as (being taken for granted doesn't make something right). Neither is evidence of the validity of something.

I think you see what you want to see. 

cormac

[Truthseeker007]

13 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

One can just as easily have "something believed with strong conviction" be wrong as much as it could be right (as conviction doesn't make something right), just as one could have something "taken for granted" be wrong as much as it could be right as (being taken for granted doesn't make something right). Neither is evidence of the validity of something.

I think you see what you want to see. 

cormac

To be the devils advocate. I think we all see what we want to see.lol!! Hey at least he hasn't got the blue book out yet.lol!

[cormac mac airt]

1 minute ago, Truthseeker007 said:

To be the devils advocate. I think we all see what we want to see.lol!! Hey at least he hasn't got the blue book out yet.lol!

Bite your tongue. Stargate was more entertaining IMO.

cormac

[Truthseeker007]

7 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

Bite your tongue. Stargate was more entertaining IMO.

Cormac

Haha!!

[+Hammerclaw]

45 minutes ago, ChrLzs said:

Let's take that further.   I betcha this God did in fact create the entire Universe, and hasn't yet spotted the tiny outbreak of life in the Milky Way (let's face it - God has much to keep an eye on...).

When we *do* get spotted, there's gunna be big trouble.

I don't know. I'm just peering over the edge of the petri dish--like everyone else, tiny, finite specks of protoplasm who number the time of their existence in a few dozen revolutions around their star. "What a piece of work is a man." indeed.

[+Hammerclaw]

54 minutes ago, Truthseeker007 said:

Well I think it has been said at some point that all is God so even a tree can be a symbol of God. So we should be free to bow down and worship that tree if we want. I mean don't get me wrong I want freedom for all to believe what people want to. But I just enjoy debating the subject.It really is an interesting topic and how all religions and beliefs unfold. What do you think of the symbols sometimes we see in fields? There are many.lol!!

This giant artifact called civilization in which we reside, is a mass of symbols. Humans think in symbols and define and order their existence by them. Language and writing are pure symbols, representing both thought, imagination and reality. They are quintessentially human.

[Perfection]

4 hours ago, Sherapy said:

No, I am asking what is great about god? I feel like what you describe about my friends hubby and kids. For me, ha going out with my husband is interesting and is filled with love. 

Do you have a support system in your life, friends, love, etc?

 

Well God takes care of your soul, & the souls of your children & your husband, & puts you all together in paradise to live happily ever after when this earth life is over. That is what is great about God. No one else can save the souls of you & your loving family & keep you all together forever. Only God can do that.

 

I don't really need support? I have a lot of people who look to me for support. I have saved many lives & am strong & able. I may need my car fixed occasionally? I certainly don't need a support system?

 

[Jodie.Lynne]

5 hours ago, Will Due said:

I guess what I'm trying to say is you have to follow Jesus to find out why he's the best example to follow.

Soooo Jesus is the best example to follow, because he is the best example to follow?

I really don't know that I expected anything more from you Will, and I don't even know why I bothered to ask.

[Mr Walker]

12 hours ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

Where are you pulling this from? It isn't any church doctrine I have heard of.

It is doctrine for many churches post Catholicism . From churches established from  the reformation and especially from the great christian revival movements of the 1800s  ie churches who based their doctrines on an actual reading and study of the bible.  

https://www.versebyverseministry.org/bible-answers/how_is_jesus_the_word

https://www.gotquestions.org/Jesus-Word-God.html

The Word”: Jesus

First, we focus on the term word. “In the beginning was the Word.” The most important thing to know about this Word is found in verse 14: “And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.” The Word refers to Jesus Christ.

https://www.desiringgod.org/messages/in-the-beginning-was-the-word

"Jesus is the Word because through him all things are made," says Jonathan, 8. "What he said became. Through the words of Jesus, the Earth and man were made. So, he is the Word."

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When we read, "In the beginning was the Word" in John's Gospel, we should immediately think of another Bible text that begins with the same introductory phrase. Genesis 1:1 says, "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth."

 

John's purpose is to establish the fact that Jesus is God and man in one person. By presenting Jesus Christ as the Word through which all things were created, John is saying that God chose Jesus as his messenger/messiah to tell us about himself. Jesus is God and the revealer of God the Father.

https://www.creators.com/read/kids-talk-about-god/03/14/why-does-the-bible-call-jesus-the-word

Edited August 16, 2018 by Mr Walker

[Mr Walker]

18 hours ago, Perfection said:

well I did not know it was God who was manifesting & so I continued to read books & listen to other people teach for a while. Then when I threw away my fear & faced God, & realised it actually was God & not just a spiritual being of some sort, then I found that everything the world had taught me was wrong to some degree.

God takes me to other worlds for thousands of years & returns me here & only a few hours have passed. God has taken me to amazing worlds filled with life forms & people that are beyond belief. There is little point in discussing it. All I thought I would do is say that God definitely is real, & I know because I have met Him. And therefore people ought to believe in God & reach out to God with their hearts & minds. 

Critics of course want proof & there never will be proof because spiritual things are very subtle & easily dismissed 

 

Hallelujah I at least can relate to this That doesn't mean i accept  it uncritically but  I absolutely know tha t humans can have this sort of experience.

The cosmic consciousness (aka god) has also allowed me to travel to many of the worlds of this galaxy and observe the inhabitants of many.  Of course it may not be real, but given other verified experiences it quite possibly is.   Sometime i would like to compare notes. 

[Mr Walker]

17 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

Talking about nothing isn't preaching anything. 

Actually it is.

Preaching the non existence of anything is no different  from preaching the existence of something.

In both cases you are preaching a personal belief  eg preaching the existence of climate change or preaching the non existence of  climate change 

Atheists cant get out of it that easily by claiming atheism is not a belief.

It is, and can be nothing else BUT a belief construct. 

[Mr Walker]

13 hours ago, ChrLzs said:

I don't want to harsh, but........  

The belief in any god is pure fantasy, as it is completely unsupported by evidence.  You may as well believe in those Invisible Unicorns.   

Observation and understanding of the complex beauty of reality is the absolute best thing in existence.  It is the ONLY thing.  Something that everyone should try (but some are far too lazy and they need to justify their misdemeanours, or simply pretend superiority..).  Embrace reality.

Sadly, religion is oft used to justify a racist stance or a war or a moral crime... that is what religion encourages by removing personal responsibility.  For some, that is a really dangerous (and often reprehensible) thing.

A person who knows god can only gently laugh at this arrogant belief    ( Bolded bit)

[Mr Walker]

12 hours ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

Listen smugmouth, the person I was referencing has no desire to share her experiences. Her POV is: I'm right, you're wrong. I don't need to explain.

At least you, even with your incredibly annoying dissertations, at least tries to explain your stance.

As I have stated many, many times: I'm NOT trying to sway anyone from their beliefs. But if someone makes fantastical claims, they had better be ready to provide some evidence.

"Perfection" ( a rather ironic & inappropriate moniker, IMHO) is presenting as a classic fundy xtian, full of hate for anyone who doesn't follow her path. SHE, and people like her, are what disgust me about religion and the majority of religious people. That smug, arrogant, condescending view that they are better than everyone else. That attitude almost makes wish the xtian god DID exist, and when he finally decides to put in an appearance, takes all those 'holier-than-thou' hypocrites, gathers them into a group and tells them they are all asshats and boots the whole kit & caboodle into oblivion.

There are elements of truth in this but on the other hand perfection is one of the few posters to share my own Peronal experience with god as a real living entity.

Many  of Perfection's experiences are identical to mine. I do not however agree with him/her about hell.

  I hear him saying that the bible is NOT the only, or even the true, way to god, but tha t ONLY personal  experience and connection( or individual faith) is required 

Yea i know what you mean.

Sort of like a non smoker telling you that, if you keep smoking, it will kill you.

,Smug and condescending aren't they, especially those damned ex smokers ?

What business of theirs is it if i want to kill myself and add millions to the health bill of the nation   

[Mr Walker]

12 hours ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

You are a master of ignorance. 

Most of the atheists on this site do not preach or try to sway others from their faith.

In fact, a lot of the atheists here are of the "I don't know" category. Why is it so difficult for theists to understand this? Perhaps theists & atheists have differently wired brains. One can readily accept things on 'faith', while the other cannot.

 

Perfection, you have stated that you really had no connection to religion until "god" appeared to you. You were provided proof that your version of god exists.

But then you state that proof isn't required, and people should 'just believe'. Do you not see a dichotomy here?

Um!! not true At least a dozen are constantly trying to convert me and are telling me that i am wrong, deluded, crazy or needy , Or at very least  partonisingly saying that if i need such a belief to cope with life then they can tolerate this, as long as i don't claim it to be true or real.    This comes from their belief that the y are right that god does not exist 

Perfection, (if we accept their word) and I, know differently   

There is not a dichotomy.

I know that god exists because it proved its existence to me, but it does not do this with most people.

For most, belief is essential if the y are  to live their lives with and connected to god .  For example my wife and many of our friends are absolute and unwavering believers The y pray, give thanks, always ask god for advice in any decision etc.  In their minds, god is as real as it is to me, despite  them not knowing him physically.  Indeed they are a,lot more obedient to his will, and more dedicated to doing his will than i am, BECAUSE they are driven by inner belief . 

[Mr Walker]

11 hours ago, cormac mac airt said:

So I'm going to ask again, "Who's God?". And if it's YOURS by what right do you have to claim YOU have final say on what God IS, DOES, THINKS? 

cormac

Oh go on. How many people do you know who claim to know a  god   It is His/her god  because he/she has made it such.

If you don't want that version, go find your own.