Mr Walker Posted August 16, 2018 #1101 Share Posted August 16, 2018 11 hours ago, Jodie.Lynne said: I have to say (horrors!) that I agree with Will. Jesus was no fool. IF jesus existed and was truly a manifestation of god, then he knew, for a FACT, that he would be coming back from death. FS, everyone claiming that Yeshua was god, if so, then his 'suffering & death" was a sham. A sleight of hand pulled off by 'the creator' Theologically Jesus was a man who lived and died as a man, but was indwelt with the holy spirit His pain suffering and death was no less real than any mans, and of course it is the template for all believers No matter what life and what death you endure, you too are promised eternal life. Like christ, if you have faith, you can die expecting to be resurrected and given eternal life Is your death a sham if you are later resurrected? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted August 16, 2018 #1102 Share Posted August 16, 2018 10 hours ago, Jodie.Lynne said: Do you even read what others have to say? Do you truly not comprehend? Or are you willfully being obtuse? And do you not think your own wording isn't being deliberately offensive? No it is not deliberately offensive. Perfection believes what they say to be absolute truth, and how can a truth be offensive? The western world today is unused to absolutes and absolute beliefs. We are expected to be wishywashy, tolerant of diversity, ready to compromise and agree with others, for peace . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted August 16, 2018 #1103 Share Posted August 16, 2018 10 hours ago, Jodie.Lynne said: Are we not taught that the Father and the son are one? and the 'holy spirit' makes three? But all are one? Maybe it's because of different backgrounds, but I was taught 3 = 1. So, if Yeshua was the flesh avatar of god, then despite whatever travails and pain the avatar felt, he yet knew that he would rise. He didn't need faith, he knew! How did he know? He was a man in that incarnation. He required faith just as you do. remember how Satan was tempting christ in the wilderness? You cant tempt a person who is untemptable ie a god. As a man, christ had the weaknesses of any man but the power of the spirit sustained him, as it can you or i. What were his last words? "Father why hast thou forsaken me " ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted August 16, 2018 #1104 Share Posted August 16, 2018 10 hours ago, XenoFish said: Love is a chemical reaction in the brain based on instinctive drives and one's own beliefs. Same goes for faith, it's just a chemical reaction based on an individuals beliefs and desires. Same type of neurochemicals. Endorphins, serotonin, oxytocin, and dopamine. If it feels good, people can become addicted to anything, even an idea. No. Both are cognitive constructs created and maintained for evolved psychological purposes Their effectiveness in meeting those purposes ensures their longevity in humans 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted August 16, 2018 #1105 Share Posted August 16, 2018 10 hours ago, XenoFish said: Art is just art. Anyone can paint a picture, draw a figure, or throw paint at a canvass. Art doesn't mean anything. Even a caveman can do it. ah but its only ART, because of certain cognitive processes which allow us to sense, feel and appreciate things like beauty, ugliness, symmetry or imagery or metaphors etc 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted August 16, 2018 #1106 Share Posted August 16, 2018 10 hours ago, XenoFish said: Here's a question for those of you who are 'enlightened', If god exist, is god an atheist? or does god have a god? God does not see it self as god. Only more primitive beings worship more advanced beings. God has all the attributes of a human being and appreciates beauty humour and a good cappachino If it has its own god it has constructed it for a logical and rational purpose, but in all my conversations with it it has never thought of itself as a god or wanted me to do so. So i suspect the question is irrelevant . Ps there may be even more advanced beings in the galaxy than the one we know as god but that is a difference of degree, not nature One day, other species will look at human beings as gods . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danydandan Posted August 16, 2018 #1107 Share Posted August 16, 2018 6 minutes ago, Mr Walker said: No. Both are cognitive constructs created and maintained for evolved psychological purposes Their effectiveness in meeting those purposes ensures their longevity in humans No, all anything we perceive is just electro-chemical signals. Everything. We touch something we feel it because of electrical signals from your fingers to your brain. Love is just the same, we feel it or perceive it because of electrical and chemical responses in our brains. Our whole perception of reality is just electro-chemical signals in our brain. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenWolf Posted August 16, 2018 #1108 Share Posted August 16, 2018 10 hours ago, Will Due said: There's enough evidence of his life and teachings out there to know what that is. There is practically next to nothing. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hammerclaw Posted August 16, 2018 #1109 Share Posted August 16, 2018 de·lu·sion [dəˈlo͞oZHən] NOUN delusions (plural noun) an idiosyncratic belief or impression that is firmly maintained despite being contradicted by what is generally accepted as reality or rational argument, typically a symptom of mental disorder. "the delusion of being watched" synonyms: misapprehension · mistaken impression · false impression · mistaken belief · misconception · misunderstanding · mistake · error · misinterpretation · misconstruction · misbelief · fallacy · illusion · figment of the imagination · fantasy · chimera · fool's paradise · self-deception the action of deluding or the state of being deluded. "what a capacity television has for delusion" synonyms: deception · misleading · deluding · fooling · tricking · trickery · duping 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Due Posted August 16, 2018 #1110 Share Posted August 16, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, MysticWolf said: There is practically next to nothing. Alright but practically next to nothing is still something after all. Edited August 16, 2018 by Will Due Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perfection Posted August 16, 2018 #1111 Share Posted August 16, 2018 God & the angels of God have taken me to see hell since I was a tiny child. I had no idea who God was or what I was being shown. It was God's way of preparing me for the earth life that lay ahead of me. Teaching my soul that there definitely is a Hell & evil wicked people do get taken there to be punished. In my own childish eyes all the people were innocent. I couldn't understand why beautiful harmless women & ordinary men were being thrown into a fiery lava type lake. They were reaching out to me for help at times. Their flesh was melting & burning but they didn't die. They are all herded at first like cattle into pens next to the judge. Then one by one they are taken out of the pen & brought before the judge. Then they are thrown into the fiery lake which is nearby. The guards who do all the work are huge men with little clothing on due to the heat, & they carry huge staves for controlling the people. Years went by & one day I saw an oil painting of Hell & it had the pens full of people & the judge & guards with the staves, & everything was identical to the way it is when God & the angels take me there. So I figured that the artist must have seen Hell as well. A couple of times when God took me to Hell to watch the sinners being punished I spoke back to God with an attitude & He picked me up & threw me into the fiery lake, & watched me burn. It is agony & there is no way to get out unless God takes you out. So I know from direct experience that Hell is a real place. And I know from direct experience that God is a real person. But as far as proof goes there is none. Obviously God is keeping people in the dark so that they feel free to sin or be good. They have free choice, which they wouldn't have if proof of God was given Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Due Posted August 16, 2018 #1112 Share Posted August 16, 2018 17 minutes ago, Perfection said: But as far as proof goes there is none. Obviously God is keeping people in the dark so that they feel free to sin or be good. They have free choice, which they wouldn't have if proof of God was given Yeah but if proof of God was given, we would still have free choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted August 16, 2018 #1113 Share Posted August 16, 2018 51 minutes ago, Perfection said: So I know from direct experience that Hell is a real place. And I know from direct experience that God is a real person. Your experience doesn't count as evidence. I can make any nonsensical claim of spiritual wtf-ever event like so many others, but there is absolutely no way to prove it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted August 16, 2018 #1114 Share Posted August 16, 2018 53 minutes ago, Perfection said: Obviously God is keeping people in the dark so that they feel free to sin or be good. They have free choice, which they wouldn't have if proof of God was given Or people who are delusional have more "god experiences" than those of sound mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+and-then Posted August 16, 2018 #1115 Share Posted August 16, 2018 15 hours ago, Will Due said: I don't. I just took a look at what there's to see about how he lived his life and noticed he suggested to "follow me." And I thought, hell, why not. And to the extent we do, we live in peace and have hope in an increasingly insane world. I get that most don't believe and I have no problem with what they believe. I'll never really understand their seeming need to "educate" those who choose faith. Why is it so important to them to try to dismiss, deny, denigrate and even erase one faith in particular from the world? I've always heard that if your taking Flak, you know you're over the target 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted August 16, 2018 #1116 Share Posted August 16, 2018 28 minutes ago, and then said: And to the extent we do, we live in peace and have hope in an increasingly insane world. I get that most don't believe and I have no problem with what they believe. I'll never really understand their seeming need to "educate" those who choose faith. Why is it so important to them to try to dismiss, deny, denigrate and even erase one faith in particular from the world? I've always heard that if your taking Flak, you know you're over the target The problem with religious beliefs is that people kill over them for no other reason than, "God said so." That right there is why religion is garbage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+and-then Posted August 16, 2018 #1117 Share Posted August 16, 2018 8 minutes ago, XenoFish said: The problem with religious beliefs is that people kill over them for no other reason than, "God said so." That right there is why religion is garbage. Religion is mostly garbage. Faith is essential if a person ever wants to be content and at peace. Christ never told anyone to kill in His name. Blaming Him for the self-serving actions of others is a fraud perpetrated to justify ignoring His teachings. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted August 16, 2018 #1118 Share Posted August 16, 2018 1 minute ago, and then said: Religion is mostly garbage. Faith is essential if a person ever wants to be content and at peace. Christ never told anyone to kill in His name. Blaming Him for the self-serving actions of others is a fraud perpetrated to justify ignoring His teachings. And yet he brought violence to the temple instead of turning the other cheek. Faith is just an expectation, expectations lead to emotional pain and suffering, because life never matches expectations. That's the downside of optimism. If more Christians actually showed love to people, this world might not be a burning piece of feces. People might stop blowing themselves up or running cars into crowds for the sake and glory of god. I have only come across a few good Christians, not sure about you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+and-then Posted August 16, 2018 #1119 Share Posted August 16, 2018 1 minute ago, XenoFish said: And yet he brought violence to the temple instead of turning the other cheek. Faith is just an expectation, expectations lead to emotional pain and suffering, because life never matches expectations. That's the downside of optimism. If more Christians actually showed love to people, this world might not be a burning piece of feces. People might stop blowing themselves up or running cars into crowds for the sake and glory of god. I have only come across a few good Christians, not sure about you. Ask Psyche 101, he can set you straight on my status . If more Christians behaved like Christ, yes, the world would be a better place but expecting Christ-like perfection from flawed human beings is height none of us can reach. As to those killing in the name of God, they aren't Christians and few who act that way even have the cheek to call themselves Christians because they are so easily refuted. Here's the thing, X, I'm more at peace with myself today than I ever was in the past. My faith is what keeps me centered on what's important TO ME. I don't feel any need to question that or to force it on anyone else. Life's just too short. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jodie.Lynne Posted August 16, 2018 #1120 Share Posted August 16, 2018 10 hours ago, Mr Walker said: The western world today is unused to absolutes and absolute beliefs. We are expected to be wishywashy, tolerant of diversity, ready to compromise and agree with others, for peace . Yeah, damn those people that wish to live their own lives, in accordance to their own beliefs! Because we should all conform to the norm. Except.... what is the norm? And should someone stifle their true self in order to keep the status quo? You want to belief what you want to believe? That's fine. Then let others believe what they want to believe. THAT is tolerance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted August 16, 2018 #1121 Share Posted August 16, 2018 You know. If god is love. Then to truly worship god is to become a loving person. Let your kind acts and words be your prayers. No church, no bible, no spiritual nonsense, embody the every ideal you believe and at least try to make this dying world a better place that it was when you got here. No need to over inflate your sense of self-importance. Just be a better person. Give kindness without expectation, be friendly, show a basic level of respect to each person you meet. Hell, you might actually change peoples perception of you. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jodie.Lynne Posted August 16, 2018 #1122 Share Posted August 16, 2018 16 hours ago, Will Due said: In your opinion, what are Jesus' beliefs? who knows? We only have documents that purport to record the words he spoke. And those sources, from what I've read here and elsewhere, are suspect at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perfection Posted August 16, 2018 #1123 Share Posted August 16, 2018 well i think we are all equal. But knowledge is not all equal. Some knowledge updates older knowledge & dissipates it. So there is a way forward & a way backwards when learning is concerned. I would be a sinful devil if I saw people asking questions about spiritual matters & I just ignored them & failed to tell them what I have witnessed. I can take all the insults you can throw. You're just doing what you think it correct. It's like a dog barking. No harm done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jodie.Lynne Posted August 16, 2018 #1124 Share Posted August 16, 2018 16 hours ago, Will Due said: It's easier to follow him than to blaze our own trail. That depends. If no one 'blazed their own trail', followed their dreams & ideas, we'd still be living in the dark ages. Some of our greatest advances/achievements came from people who weren't willing to follow the crowd. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jodie.Lynne Posted August 16, 2018 #1125 Share Posted August 16, 2018 16 hours ago, Will Due said: I do not assume anything. What I do is faith based. Just gonna leave this here for folk to ponder on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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