How will God prove himself?

[Will Due]

5 minutes ago, danydandan said:

Save me please, I'd prefer not to go to hell.

 

I think the way it works is that God would prefer that everyone goes to heaven. Yes.

Go to heaven.

 

 

[+Hammerclaw]

7 minutes ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

With the utmost respect to you, because I am floored by your gentle eloquence, How do we really know that it really happened that way?

I know it is your faith, and that is why you believe it, but how can we know that this is truth?

You can't; that's why religion is called a Faith. It's irrational, it's illogical, it makes absolutely no sense--much like romantic love. Yet, like romantic love, one finds it so exquisite and beautiful and emotionally satisfying one suspends disbelief and buys into it's remarkable illusion--or not. Belief is always a choice, just one sometimes hard to resist. 

Edited August 14, 2018 by Hammerclaw

[danydandan]

Just now, Will Due said:

 

I think the way it works is that God would prefer that everyone goes to heaven. Yes.

Go to heaven.

 

 

This is quite interesting.

Here we have two very different versions of God. I'd love for you to address the differences between the God you believe in and the one Perfection is preaching about. Considering your one doesn't suffer us mortals to hell, where Perfection emphatically stated their one will suffer all non believers to hell. I'd like to see an amicable conversation between you two regarding the different concepts.

[Opus Magnus]

4 minutes ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

And what does that have to do with "It would make more sense if Zeus...etc"?

Because if it were Zeus, that would mean he wanted the world to believe in Jesus Christ. Hence, why all the Gospels are originally in Greek.

[Jodie.Lynne]

2 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

You can't; that's why religion is called a Faith.

Well then, if there is a god, especially the god of the bible, then I better stock up on sunscreen. 

I am unable to suspend disbelief in that manner. 

[+joc]

37 minutes ago, Podo said:

You quoted the wrong guy, somehow. The thing you have in your quotebox is not something I said. Not sure how that managed to happen. I can assure you that I do not give out any pamphlets

Oh %$#@!  My badness!

That happens when you copy a quote inside another quote. I fixed it...my apologies. 

 

[Jodie.Lynne]

2 minutes ago, Opus Magnus said:

Because if it were Zeus, that would mean he wanted the world to believe in Jesus Christ. Hence, why all the Gospels are originally in Greek.

That is one of the silliest answers I have ever read! WTF would Zeus what people to believe in another god and draw his own worshippers away?

At the time, Greek was still the language of trade, along with Latin.

 

That's like saying that because English is the language of trade today, everyone must be English!

[+Hammerclaw]

1 minute ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

Well then, if there is a god, especially the god of the bible, then I better stock up on sunscreen. 

I am unable to suspend disbelief in that manner. 

Some can't; their brains aren't wired that way. Others have never been given reason to. Even Mother Teresa expressed doubts, feeling she had been denied divine revelation. Faith is a hard road to travel in this world of material things. One must be wary lest it be stolen or spirited away.

[Opus Magnus]

2 minutes ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

That is one of the silliest answers I have ever read! WTF would Zeus what people to believe in another god and draw his own worshippers away?

At the time, Greek was still the language of trade, along with Latin.

 

That's like saying that because English is the language of trade today, everyone must be English!

That would be denying the terrible almighty power of the King of the Gods. If it were in his divine plan to move the world this way, then he wouldn't care.

[danydandan]

5 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

Some can't; their brains aren't wired that way. Others have never been given reason to. Even Mother Teresa expressed doubts, feeling she had been denied divine revelation. Faith is a hard road to travel in this world of material things. One must be wary lest it be stolen or spirited away.

I think your faith would be rocked too if you made sick dieing people suffer on their death beds because you believed that the only way to God and the only way to save your soul is through suffering. All the while robbing millions from poor families, with the promise of cures and eternal peace in heaven. If doctors and medical professionals did what she and her kin did to people they'd be jailed or worse.

Why would God, if he does, show himself to a person like that?

Edited August 14, 2018 by danydandan

[+Hammerclaw]

Just now, danydandan said:

I think your faith would be rocked if you made sick dying people suffer on their death beds because you believed that the only way to God and the only way to save your soul is through suffering. All the while robbing millions from poor families, with the promise of cures and eternal peace in heaven.

Why would God, if he does, show himself to a person like that?

I have no answer to such a question nor would I make anyone suffer for any reason if I could prevent it, nor have I any idea why God does anything. Mother Teresa is an Icon of self-sacrifice is all I know, if you know more, then please, share with us.

[Will Due]

23 minutes ago, danydandan said:

This is quite interesting.

Here we have two very different versions of God. I'd love for you to address the differences between the God you believe in and the one Perfection is preaching about. Considering your one doesn't suffer us mortals to hell, where Perfection emphatically stated their one will suffer all non believers to hell. I'd like to see an amicable conversation between you two regarding the different concepts.

 

To be honest, I haven't read much today from this thread. Popped in a few times earlier, read some of Perfection's stuff but . . .

To address your points about our differences, for now, I'll just say that Perfection isn't as perfect as she (I think he's a she lol) as she thinks.

Not that I'm any better. 

 

 

[Opus Magnus]

I think it's a reference to Paul saying to gain perfection through God, which is an ongoing process.

[Will Due]

1 minute ago, Opus Magnus said:

gain perfection through God, which is an ongoing process.

 

That's it!

Through Faith.

 

 

[danydandan]

3 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

I have no answer to such a question nor would I make anyone suffer for any reason if I could prevent it, nor have I any idea why God does anything. Mother Teresa is an Icon of self-sacrifice is all I know, if you know more, then please, share with us.

She did all she did with the best intentions, saving souls, I think. But as you know the best intentions sometimes cause the most pain

There are accusations of forced baptism to get medical care, there are accusations of very very poor health care, accusations of less than honest acquisition of donations.

Let me elaborate, in the 90s a medical journal called Lancet I believe, gave a very poor review of the health care given by her order. Stating they didn't distinguish between curable and incurable people. They made medical advice and decisions with no medical training. Basically because there were no doctors there. The person, I can't remember their name, was very concerned about the lack of pain management. Starting there was basically none. Hence my comment regarding she thought the way to God was through suffering. This report was basically backed up a number of years ago by a college I also can't remember whom exactly, but I remember saying they glorified pain rather than treating it.

The forced baptism claim was made by Christopher Hitchens and backed up by Murray Kempton. Both say her order baptised all on their death bed regardless of Religion beliefs.

Can't remember much about the charitable donations, to be honest.

[Will Due]

 

I think the main thing Perfection is right about is that one needs to meet God. That one needs to seek him.

 

 

[danydandan]

10 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

To be honest, I haven't read much today from this thread. Popped in a few times earlier, read some of Perfection's stuff but . . .

To address your points about our differences, for now, I'll just say that Perfection isn't as perfect as she (I think he's a she lol) as she thinks.

Not that I'm any better. 

 

 

Ah man, please address the differences. I'm begging you.  She's all hell fire and brimstone's, and your quite opposite.

Anyways no one is perfect.

[Opus Magnus]

As I was saying to begin with, in the Gospel Jesus states that no man can reach the Father, but through Jesus. That the son is always with the Father and no man can get to him, but through his son.

[danydandan]

3 minutes ago, Opus Magnus said:

As I was saying to begin with, in the Gospel Jesus states that no man can reach the Father, but through Jesus. That the son is always with the Father and no man can get to him, but through his son.

So what your saying, because one can't have access to God except through Jesus? Then perfection is not telling the truth?

But, Perfection has stated s/he isn't Religious thus are you assuming s/he can't have access to God because they haven't accepted Jesus?  I also assume the same is true for MrWalker.

Edited August 14, 2018 by danydandan

[+Hammerclaw]

Just now, danydandan said:

She did all she did with the best intentions, saving souls, I think. But as you know the best intentions sometimes cause the most pain

There are accusations of forced baptism to get medical care, there are accusations of very very poor health care, accusations of less than honest acquisition of donations.

Let me elaborate, in the 90s a medical journal called Lancet I believe, gave a very poor review of the health care given by her order. Stating they didn't distinguish between curable and incurable people. They made medical advice and decisions with no medical training. Basically because there were no doctors there. The person, I can't remember their name, was very concerned about the lack of pain management. Starting there was basically none. Hence my comment regarding she thought the way to God was through suffering. This report was basically backed up a number of years ago by a college I also can't remember whom exactly, but I remember saying they glorified pain rather than treating it.

The forced baptism claim was made by Christopher Hitchens and backed up by Murray Kempton. Both say her order baptised all on their death bed regardless of Religion beliefs.

Can't remember much about the charitable donations, to be honest.

Yes, I brushed up on her, too. Seems a lot of angst directed at her by high cast conservative Hindu intellectuals and politicians and the likes of Hitchens, of course. If the care she provided the disadvantaged was poor, it was better than what their own government offered--which was next to none. Yes, they weren't pleased with Catholic conversion, yet even in Calcutta there is a deep divide in opinion of her works. For the most part, the poor seem to cherish her memory. Supposedly, conditions in her hospitals improved after her death, thanks to the government. What were they waiting for?

[+joc]

34 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

Some can't; their brains aren't wired that way. Others have never been given reason to. Even Mother Teresa expressed doubts, feeling she had been denied divine revelation. Faith is a hard road to travel in this world of material things. One must be wary lest it be stolen or spirited away.

I honestly think Faith is an easy road to travel. That is why there is a church on every corner.  It's easy because most, I think, are born into it. They never really even have to think about it.

[danydandan]

1 minute ago, Hammerclaw said:

Yes, I brushed up on her, too. Seems a lot of angst directed at her by high cast conservative Hindu intellectuals and politicians and the likes of Hitchens, of course. If the care she provided the disadvantaged was poor, it was better than what their own government offered--which was next to none. Yes, they weren't pleased with Catholic conversion, yet even in Calcutta there is a deep divide in opinion of her works. For the most part, the poor seem to cherish her memory. Supposedly, conditions in her hospitals improved after her death, thanks to the government. What were they waiting for?

Yeah it's a divisive subject.

[+Hammerclaw]

2 minutes ago, joc said:

I honestly think Faith is an easy road to travel. That is why there is a church on every corner.  It's easy because most, I think, are born into it. They never really even have to think about it.

That's not Faith, Joc, that's conditioning, doing things by habit. There are plenty of cultural Christians--but belief and Faith don't necessarily follow. Faith is a hard road for a thinking man, Joc; it's much harder to suspend disbelief.

[Opus Magnus]

4 minutes ago, danydandan said:

So what your saying, because one can't have access to God except through Jesus? Then perfection is not telling the truth?

But, Perfection has stated s/he isn't Religious thus are you assuming s/he can't have access to God because they haven't accepted Jesus?  I also assume the same is true for MrWalker.

No, because they were probably indoctrinated in Jesus during their youth. I was saying, Jesus describes himself as a vine, so if they have in anyway come into contact with it they have encountered God as well. That is why there was a scheme to Christianise the world, so everyone would have a chance to encounter God.

[danydandan]

8 minutes ago, Opus Magnus said:

No, because they were probably indoctrinated in Jesus during their youth. I was saying, Jesus describes himself as a vine, so if they have in anyway come into contact with it they have encountered God as well. That is why there was a scheme to Christianise the world, so everyone would have a chance to encounter God.

But both Perfection and MrWalker have stated both were brought up Athiests and never had access to a Bible or any other religions doctrine when they first had their experiences of God.

MrWalker has stated he initially assumed the thing he encountered was an Alien and after reading biblical accounts he then changed his mind and now believes its God.

Perfection has also stated they encountered God prior to having knowledge of Jesus. And only read Religious texts after their experiences.

So either Jesus being the only way to God is bogus or their claims are. Which is it?

You also know the Bible and other texted are full of people, who never even heard of Jesus, experiencing God?

Edited August 15, 2018 by danydandan