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kartikg

How will God prove himself?

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Hammerclaw
10 minutes ago, Truthseeker007 said:

So why not Krishna or Buddha? After all what Jesus is quoted as saying in the Bible has been taken from other sources.

What sources?

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ChrLzs
11 minutes ago, Will Due said:

{ChrLzs} And I would add, Perfection, next time he takes you to Hell, ask him if you can bring a camera.  If not, can you tell us exactly what he says?

I already asked Perfection that. I didn't get a reply. 

Thanks for letting me know, Will.

Perfection, given you have been asked this TWICE now, I would ask that you prove you are here to discuss, by answering it.  The question was:

Next time God takes you to Hell, ask him if you can bring a camera? If not, tell us exactly what he says.

 

(But beware, as this might be a 'logic trap' - there WILL be questions to follow, no matter how you answer....)

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Truthseeker007
4 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

Are you sure?

Even then, why would it matter?

The evidence of his life and teachings kind of speak for itself doesn't it? What he taught and how he lived is recorded, eventhough it might be fragmented a bit. It's still there isn't it?

 

 

What did he do that was different from any other of these hero's? All he is was a created hero enforcing all the previous hero's. A superman for the Romans to follow.

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Will Due
6 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

And yet very little of it, and NONE of his beliefs/teachings, are contemporary with his life. 

cormac

 

Well, you are entitled to your belief.

In your opinion, what are Jesus' beliefs? 

 

 

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Truthseeker007
12 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

What sources?

Read some of what Hindu,Buddhism and Egyptian writings have said and especially the Book of the Dead. They are all far older then Jesus. A story comes from a story and begets another story. There is not much original about Jesus.

Edited by Truthseeker007

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Hammerclaw
Just now, Truthseeker007 said:

Read some of what Hindu,Buddhism and Egyptian writings have said and especially the Book of the Dead. They are all far older then Jesus. A story comes from a story and begets another story. There is nothing original about Jesus.

It was a rhetorical question. I had classes in comparative religion. I wanted to see if you knew what you were talking about or speaking in vague generalities of the "everyone knows" variety. Apparently the latter. 

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Truthseeker007
2 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

It was a rhetorical question. I had classes in comparative religion. I wanted to see if you knew what you were talking about or speaking in vague generalities of the "everyone knows" variety. Apparently the latter. 

Do you think the classes were telling the truth? Did they have speakers from each religion or just teachers that were Christians? I mean how one sided was it?

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Will Due
4 minutes ago, Truthseeker007 said:

What did he do that was different from any other of these hero's? 

 

I would say that he actually lived what he taught. That's the difference. 

I think how he lived his life is what's instructive of what he taught.

He taught more by living his life as an example to follow than teaching us what to do with his words.

To me, that's the significance of what he meant when he said "follow me."

He is showing us the way. It's easier to follow him than to blaze our own trail.

Something like that anyways.

 

 

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Hammerclaw
1 minute ago, Truthseeker007 said:

Do you think the classes were telling the truth? Did they have speakers from each religion or just teachers that were Christians? I mean how one sided was it?

It was college and the professor was atheist--but he was very well educated and impartial and didn't have an axe to grind. He summarized quite succinctly the history and tenets of the major world religions denoting similarities and differences. You, on the other hand, said the text attributed to Jesus were taken from other sources, not general theosophical similarities and I ask you to cite the sources for that specific statement.

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Truthseeker007
4 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

I would say that he actually lived what he taught. That's the difference. 

I think how he lived his life is what's instructive of what he taught.

He taught more by living his life as an example to follow than teaching us what to do with his words.

To me, that's the significance of what he meant when he said "follow me."

He is showing us the way. It's easier to follow him than to blaze our own trail.

Something like that anyways.

 

 

Well that is a good explanation. But what did he teach that is so great that I couldn't learn from any other hero? Even superman or batman can teach me these things. I think the problem with the whole Jesus thing is you are taught if you don't take this godman in your heart you will either die or burn in hell forever. For that issue I could never be a follower of this deity.

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Truthseeker007
3 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

It was college and the professor was atheist--but he was very well educated and impartial and didn't have an axe to grind. He summarized quite succinctly the history and tenets of the major world religions denoting similarities and differences. You, on the other hand, said the text attributed to Jesus were taken from other sources, not general theosophical similarities and I ask you to cite the sources for that specific statement.

So you want examples but don't you already know them? I could go on forever with them.lol!! They are thick books.lol!! Basically it is easily seen The New Testament is assembled from patterns related to stories taken from earlier sources, such as Zoroastrian, Mithrain, Krishna, Buddhism, and Egyptian. If somebody can't see that then I just don't know. It can even be connected to the zodiac system as Jesus as the fish and Pisces also the number 12. They are well written stories with many layers upon layers. Fishermen didn't write these stories.lol!

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cormac mac airt
23 minutes ago, Will Due said:

Well, you are entitled to your belief.

In your opinion, what are Jesus' beliefs? 

Nope, not my belief. The earliest Gospel, the Gospel of Mark, wasn't even written until 35 - 40 years AFTER his death and scholarly research has suggested that it wasn't even written by Mark. 

I don't presume to know about the beliefs/teachings of a man who wasn't even written about until decades AFTER his life, and by a completely unknown author. Why do you assume you know?

cormac

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Hammerclaw
1 minute ago, Truthseeker007 said:

So you want examples but don't you already know them? I could go on forever with them.lol!! They are thick books.lol!! Basically it is easily seen The New Testament is assembled from patterns related to stories taken from earlier sources, such as Zoroastrian, Mithrain, Krishna, Buddhism, and Egyptian. If somebody can't see that then I just don't know. It can even be connected to the zodiac system as Jesus as the fish and Pisces also the number 12. They are well written stories with many layers upon layers. Fishermen didn't write these stories.lol!

You weren't talking about stories and similarities but specific things Jesus said in the Bible. I'm well aware Judaism and Christianity owe a great debt to Zoroastrianism, for instance, for such things as the duality of man's existence. You seemed to be saying Jesus' words and sermons in the Bible were plagiarized from other sources and I ask you to name those sources. 

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Will Due
3 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

Nope, not my belief. The earliest Gospel, the Gospel of Mark, wasn't even written until 35 - 40 years AFTER his death and scholarly research has suggested that it wasn't even written by Mark. 

I don't presume to know about the beliefs/teachings of a man who wasn't even written about until decades AFTER his life, and by a completely unknown author. Why do you assume you know?

cormac

 

I don't. 

I just took a look at what there's to see about how he lived his life and noticed he suggested to "follow me." 

And I thought, hell, why not.

 

 

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Truthseeker007
12 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

You weren't talking about stories and similarities but specific things Jesus said in the Bible. I'm well aware Judaism and Christianity owe a great debt to Zoroastrianism, for instance, for such things as the duality of man's existence. You seemed to be saying Jesus' words and sermons in the Bible were plagiarized from other sources and I ask you to name those sources. 

Now we are getting somewhere.:lol: Not all of them are because when something is based on something else it isn't going to be exactly the same. So please pardon me for my poor choice of words. I am not the best speaker in the world. I do like though how you put things and sometimes it blows my mind. For just one example of the many:

Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?” (John 14:9)

“For one who sees Me everywhere..” (Lord Krishna, Bhagavad-Gita 6.30)

“Although I am everywhere..” (Lord Krishna, Bhagavad-Gita 9.5)

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Truthseeker007
10 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

I don't. 

I just took a look at what there's to see about how he lived his life and noticed he suggested to "follow me." 

And I thought, hell, why not.

 

 

Sorry everybody picks on you Will. At least you try. I am sure you are a great person.:)

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cormac mac airt
1 minute ago, Will Due said:

I don't. 

I just took a look at what there's to see about how he lived his life and noticed he suggested to "follow me." 

And I thought, hell, why not.

So you just assume that what is said in the Gospels, etc. is the truth, since nothing is actually contemporary to his life? Quite a huge assumption as he left no evidence of his own concerning his beliefs or teachings. Add to that that the Council of Nicea, nearly 300 years AFTER his crucifixion determined what would be accepted in what was to become the Bible regardless of the lack of contemporary evidence. So you're basically standing in quicksand trying to tell me it's granite. :D

cormac

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Will Due
23 minutes ago, Truthseeker007 said:

Well that is a good explanation. But what did he teach that is so great that I couldn't learn from any other hero? Even superman or batman can teach me these things. I think the problem with the whole Jesus thing is you are taught if you don't take this godman in your heart you will either die or burn in hell forever. For that issue I could never be a follower of this deity.

 

Can I ask you a question?

If you can make the decision to entirely not follow any or all deities like your sovereign free will allows, why can't you also just reject the outrageous falsehood that if you don't take this godman in your heart you will either die or burn in hell forever and to the best of your ability, based on what you know is probably true, follow Jesus anyway?

 

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Truthseeker007
6 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

So you just assume that what is said in the Gospels, etc. is the truth, since nothing is actually contemporary to his life? Quite a huge assumption as he left no evidence of his own concerning his beliefs or teachings. Add to that that the Council of Nicea, nearly 300 years AFTER his crucifixion determined what would be accepted in what was to become the Bible regardless of the lack of contemporary evidence. So you're basically standing in quicksand trying to tell me it's granite. :D

Cormac

Very well put Cormac!:tu: I am glad somebody agrees with me for once.:lol:

Trust me it don't happen often in the kind of things I dive into.lol!

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Will Due
9 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

So you just assume that what is said in the Gospels, etc. is the truth, since nothing is actually contemporary to his life? Quite a huge assumption as he left no evidence of his own concerning his beliefs or teachings. Add to that that the Council of Nicea, nearly 300 years AFTER his crucifixion determined what would be accepted in what was to become the Bible regardless of the lack of contemporary evidence. So you're basically standing in quicksand trying to tell me it's granite. :D

cormac

 

But what if there is contemporary evidence?

 

 

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Hammerclaw
13 minutes ago, Truthseeker007 said:

Now we are getting somewhere.:lol: Not all of them are because when something is based on something else it isn't going to be exactly the same. So please pardon me for my poor choice of words. I am not the best speaker in the world. I do like though how you put things and sometimes it blows my mind. For just one example of the many:

Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?” (John 14:9)

“For one who sees Me everywhere..” (Lord Krishna, Bhagavad-Gita 6.30)

“Although I am everywhere..” (Lord Krishna, Bhagavad-Gita 9.5)

No religion arises pristine and unsourced from a vacuum. Christianity is an amalgamation, a synthesis of everything that came before and contemporaneous influences. It's genesis were the teachings of one remarkable man, whose impact on the theosophical thought of a  multiethnic, polytheistic, polyglot society is astonishing. It's difficult to separate his teachings from the religion and centuries of interpolations that altered his message almost beyond recognition. A great teacher, a humble man of peace, exalted and deified. What religious truths that lie therein, twisted and distorted as they were by Pauline Christianity, are purely a matter of conjecture and belief. 

Edited by Hammerclaw
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cormac mac airt
2 minutes ago, Truthseeker007 said:

Very well put Cormac!:tu: I am glad somebody agrees with me for once.:lol:

Trust me it don't happen often in the kind of things I dive into.lol!

Well I'm not big on "assuming" what someone believed/taught "was actually" what they believed/taught. Especially when it was only first mentioned AFTER THEY DIED. How convenient for the believer I guess. :D

cormac

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cormac mac airt
3 minutes ago, Will Due said:

But what if there is contemporary evidence?

It hasn't been presented in nearly 2000 years. So where's it at? And don't say the UB, it's nonsense. 

cormac

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Truthseeker007
3 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

No religion arises pristine and unsourced from a vacuum. Christianity is an amalgamation, a synthesis of everything that came before and contemporaneous influences. It's genesis were the teachings of one remarkable man, whose impact on the theosophical thought of a  multiethnic, polytheistic, polyglot society is astonishing. It's difficult to separate his teachings from the religion and centuries of interpolations that altered his message almost beyond recognition. A great teacher, a humble man of peace, exalted and deified. What religious truths that lie therein, twisted and distorted as they were by Pauline Christianity, are purely a matter of conjecture and belief. 

That is very good how you put that but I will say my contention is that the Bible Jesus never existed as one person and are stories created by authors much like Marvel Comics does in this day. But you are free to believe in him if it makes your life better. I know when I was a Cristian for over 20 years believing in him did not make my life any better and in fact not very good at all. To each their own I guess.

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Will Due
11 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

So you just assume that what is said in the Gospels, etc. is the truth, since nothing is actually contemporary to his life?

 

Can I be honest?

I do not assume anything. What I do is faith based. If there's anything that's obvious to me about this "belief in God and live a religious life thing, it's that the most important factor is faith. Nothing comes of it otherwise.

The lesser the factor that faith is, the lesser the results.

 

 

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