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kartikg

How will God prove himself?

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cormac mac airt
3 minutes ago, Will Due said:

But what if there is contemporary evidence?

It hasn't been presented in nearly 2000 years. So where's it at? And don't say the UB, it's nonsense. 

cormac

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Truthseeker007
3 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

No religion arises pristine and unsourced from a vacuum. Christianity is an amalgamation, a synthesis of everything that came before and contemporaneous influences. It's genesis were the teachings of one remarkable man, whose impact on the theosophical thought of a  multiethnic, polytheistic, polyglot society is astonishing. It's difficult to separate his teachings from the religion and centuries of interpolations that altered his message almost beyond recognition. A great teacher, a humble man of peace, exalted and deified. What religious truths that lie therein, twisted and distorted as they were by Pauline Christianity, are purely a matter of conjecture and belief. 

That is very good how you put that but I will say my contention is that the Bible Jesus never existed as one person and are stories created by authors much like Marvel Comics does in this day. But you are free to believe in him if it makes your life better. I know when I was a Cristian for over 20 years believing in him did not make my life any better and in fact not very good at all. To each their own I guess.

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Will Do
11 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

So you just assume that what is said in the Gospels, etc. is the truth, since nothing is actually contemporary to his life?

 

Can I be honest?

I do not assume anything. What I do is faith based. If there's anything that's obvious to me about this "belief in God and live a religious life thing, it's that the most important factor is faith. Nothing comes of it otherwise.

The lesser the factor that faith is, the lesser the results.

 

 

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Truthseeker007
6 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

Well I'm not big on "assuming" what someone believed/taught "was actually" what they believed/taught. Especially when it was only first mentioned AFTER THEY DIED. How convenient for the believer I guess. :D

cormac

Not to mention he didn't even write anything himself yet the bible is called Gods word by many.

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Hammerclaw
1 minute ago, Truthseeker007 said:

That is very good how you put that but I will say my contention is that the Bible Jesus never existed as one person and are stories created by authors much like Marvel Comics does in this day. But you are free to believe in him if it makes your life better. I know when I was a Cristian for over 20 years believing in him did not make my life any better and in fact not very good at all. To each their own I guess.

I kind of think of it like the Book version of The Hobbit compared to the Peter Jackson version. Like I said, it's a matter of belief and it's disingenuous to demand proof of belief and a fool's quest to try to provide it.

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Truthseeker007
2 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

I kind of think of it like the Book version of The Hobbit compared to the Peter Jackson version. Like I said, it's a matter of belief and it's disingenuous to demand proof of belief and a fool's quest to try to provide it.

Well the whole problem is none of us were there so we could debate about it all day never changing each others mind. Especially a man of your intelligence it would like trying to stop my dad from being an atheist.lol!! I am not an atheist myself I believe God to be more energy and consciousness. I feel we all have different paths. One is needing to follow a teacher and the other teaching themselves. All are part of this great learning experience we have on this 3D Earth in the middle of the Universe. All of it is a journey for we are always moving even on this Earth.

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cormac mac airt
19 minutes ago, Will Due said:

Can I be honest?

I do not assume anything. What I do is faith based. If there's anything that's obvious to me about this "belief in God and live a religious life thing, it's that the most important factor is faith. Nothing comes of it otherwise.

The lesser the factor that faith is, the lesser the results.

Really?

Quote

 

Definition of faith

plural faiths play \ˈfāths, sometimes ˈfāt͟hz\1a : allegiance to duty or a person : loyalty 

lost faith in the company's president

b (1) : fidelity to one's promises 

(2) : sincerity of intentions 

acted in good faith

2a (1) : belief and trust in and loyalty to God 

(2) : belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion

b (1) : firm belief in something for which there is no proof 

clinging to the faith that her missing son would one day return

(2) : complete trust

3: something that is believed especially with strong conviction; especially : a system of religious beliefs 

the Protestant faith

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/faith

Quote

 

Definition of assumption

1: a taking to or upon oneself 

the assumption of a new position

2: the act of laying claim to or taking possession of something 

the assumption of power

3a : an assuming that something is true 

a mistaken assumption

b : a fact or statement (such as a proposition, axiom (see axiom 2), postulate, or notion) taken for granted

4a : the taking up of a person into heaven

b capitalized : August 15 observed in commemoration of the Assumption of the Virgin Mary

5: the taking over of another's debts

6: arrogance, pretension

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/assumption

 

I don't see a difference between "something believed with strong conviction" and "a statement taken for granted", do you? They both require the same thing IMO. 

cormac

Edited by cormac mac airt

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Hammerclaw
1 minute ago, Truthseeker007 said:

Well the whole problem is none of us were there so we could debate about it all day never changing each others mind. Especially a man of your intelligence it would like trying to stop my dad from being an atheist.lol!! I am not an atheist myself I believe God to be more energy and consciousness. I feel we all have different paths. One is needing to follow a teacher and the other teaching themselves. All are part of this great learning experience we have on this 3D Earth in the middle of the Universe. All of it is a journey for we are always moving even on this Earth.

To me, it's all symbols and religion is a language of symbols whose meaning vary from one religion to another. I follow the dictates of my own heart and use the symbols I'm accustomed to. God, if such a thing exists, is beyond imagining and certainly no anthropomorphic hairy thunderer, wreathed in clouds, casting thunderbolts. My thoughts, as do yours, soar beyond the earthly confines of religion and embrace the Universe.

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ChrLzs
6 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

To me ... God, if such a thing exists, is beyond imagining {and} soar{s} beyond the earthly confines of religion and embrace{s} the Universe.

Let's take that further.   I betcha this God did in fact create the entire Universe, and hasn't yet spotted the tiny outbreak of life in the Milky Way (let's face it - God has much to keep an eye on...).

When we *do* get spotted, there's gunna be big trouble.

Edited by ChrLzs
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Truthseeker007
8 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

tTo me, it's all symbols and religion is a language of symbols whose meaning vary from one religion to another. I follow the dictates of my own heart and use the symbols I'm accustomed to. God, if such a thing exists, is beyond imagining and certainly no anthropomorphic hairy thunderer, wreathed in clouds, casting thunderbolts. My thoughts, as do yours, soar beyond the earthly confines of religion and embrace the Universe.

Well I think it has been said at some point that all is God so even a tree can be a symbol of God. So we should be free to bow down and worship that tree if we want. I mean don't get me wrong I want freedom for all to believe what people want to. But I just enjoy debating the subject.It really is an interesting topic and how all religions and beliefs unfold. What do you think of the symbols sometimes we see in fields? There are many.lol!!

Edited by Truthseeker007

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Will Do
1 minute ago, ChrLzs said:

Let's take that further.   I betcha this God did in fact create the entire Universe, and hasn't yet spotted the tiny outbreak of life in the Milky Way (let's face it - God has much to keep an eye on...).

When we *do* get spotted, there's gunna be big trouble.

 

You can say that again lol.

 

 

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Will Do
10 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

Really?

I don't see a difference between "something believed with strong conviction" and "a statement taken for granted", do you? They both require the same thing IMO. 

cormac

 

Well to me, they're entirely different. 

 

 

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Truthseeker007

I find this interesting:

“It should be understood that all species of life, O son of Kunte, are made possible by birth in this material nature, and that I am the seed-giving father.” (Lord Krishna, Bhagavad-Gita 14.4)

“I am the father of this universe, the mother, the support and the grandsire. I am the object of knowledge, the purifier and the syllable om. I am also the Rg, the Sama and the Yajur Vedas.” (Lord Krishna, Bhagavad-Gita 9.17)

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cormac mac airt
Just now, Will Due said:

Well to me, they're entirely different. 

One can just as easily have "something believed with strong conviction" be wrong as much as it could be right (as conviction doesn't make something right), just as one could have something "taken for granted" be wrong as much as it could be right as (being taken for granted doesn't make something right). Neither is evidence of the validity of something.

I think you see what you want to see. 

cormac

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Truthseeker007
13 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

One can just as easily have "something believed with strong conviction" be wrong as much as it could be right (as conviction doesn't make something right), just as one could have something "taken for granted" be wrong as much as it could be right as (being taken for granted doesn't make something right). Neither is evidence of the validity of something.

I think you see what you want to see. 

cormac

To be the devils advocate.:devil: I think we all see what we want to see.lol!! Hey at least he hasn't got the blue book out yet.lol!

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cormac mac airt
1 minute ago, Truthseeker007 said:

To be the devils advocate.:devil: I think we all see what we want to see.lol!! Hey at least he hasn't got the blue book out yet.lol!

Bite your tongue. Stargate was more entertaining IMO. :D

cormac

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Truthseeker007
7 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

Bite your tongue. Stargate was more entertaining IMO. :D

Cormac

Haha!!

zs.jpg

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Hammerclaw
45 minutes ago, ChrLzs said:

Let's take that further.   I betcha this God did in fact create the entire Universe, and hasn't yet spotted the tiny outbreak of life in the Milky Way (let's face it - God has much to keep an eye on...).

When we *do* get spotted, there's gunna be big trouble.

I don't know. I'm just peering over the edge of the petri dish--like everyone else, tiny, finite specks of protoplasm who number the time of their existence in a few dozen revolutions around their star. "What a piece of work is a man." indeed.

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Hammerclaw
54 minutes ago, Truthseeker007 said:

Well I think it has been said at some point that all is God so even a tree can be a symbol of God. So we should be free to bow down and worship that tree if we want. I mean don't get me wrong I want freedom for all to believe what people want to. But I just enjoy debating the subject.It really is an interesting topic and how all religions and beliefs unfold. What do you think of the symbols sometimes we see in fields? There are many.lol!!

This giant artifact called civilization in which we reside, is a mass of symbols. Humans think in symbols and define and order their existence by them. Language and writing are pure symbols, representing both thought, imagination and reality. They are quintessentially human.

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Perfection
4 hours ago, Sherapy said:

No, I am asking what is great about god? I feel like what you describe about my friends hubby and kids. For me, ha going out with my husband is interesting and is filled with love. 

Do you have a support system in your life, friends, love, etc?

 

Well God takes care of your soul, & the souls of your children & your husband, & puts you all together in paradise to live happily ever after when this earth life is over. That is what is great about God. No one else can save the souls of you & your loving family & keep you all together forever. Only God can do that.

 

I don't really need support? I have a lot of people who look to me for support. I have saved many lives & am strong & able. I may need my car fixed occasionally? I certainly don't need a support system?

 

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Jodie.Lynne
5 hours ago, Will Due said:

I guess what I'm trying to say is you have to follow Jesus to find out why he's the best example to follow.

Soooo Jesus is the best example to follow, because he is the best example to follow?

I really don't know that I expected anything more from you Will, and I don't even know why I bothered to ask.

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Mr Walker
12 hours ago, Jodie.Lynne said:

Where are you pulling this from? It isn't any church doctrine I have heard of.

It is doctrine for many churches post Catholicism . From churches established from  the reformation and especially from the great christian revival movements of the 1800s  ie churches who based their doctrines on an actual reading and study of the bible.  

https://www.versebyverseministry.org/bible-answers/how_is_jesus_the_word

https://www.gotquestions.org/Jesus-Word-God.html

The Word”: Jesus

First, we focus on the term word. “In the beginning was the Word.” The most important thing to know about this Word is found in verse 14: “And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.” The Word refers to Jesus Christ.

https://www.desiringgod.org/messages/in-the-beginning-was-the-word

"Jesus is the Word because through him all things are made," says Jonathan, 8. "What he said became. Through the words of Jesus, the Earth and man were made. So, he is the Word."

When we read, "In the beginning was the Word" in John's Gospel, we should immediately think of another Bible text that begins with the same introductory phrase. Genesis 1:1 says, "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth."

 

John's purpose is to establish the fact that Jesus is God and man in one person. By presenting Jesus Christ as the Word through which all things were created, John is saying that God chose Jesus as his messenger/messiah to tell us about himself. Jesus is God and the revealer of God the Father.

https://www.creators.com/read/kids-talk-about-god/03/14/why-does-the-bible-call-jesus-the-word

Edited by Mr Walker
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Mr Walker
18 hours ago, Perfection said:

well I did not know it was God who was manifesting & so I continued to read books & listen to other people teach for a while. Then when I threw away my fear & faced God, & realised it actually was God & not just a spiritual being of some sort, then I found that everything the world had taught me was wrong to some degree.

God takes me to other worlds for thousands of years & returns me here & only a few hours have passed. God has taken me to amazing worlds filled with life forms & people that are beyond belief. There is little point in discussing it. All I thought I would do is say that God definitely is real, & I know because I have met Him. And therefore people ought to believe in God & reach out to God with their hearts & minds. 

Critics of course want proof & there never will be proof because spiritual things are very subtle & easily dismissed 

 

Hallelujah I at least can relate to this That doesn't mean i accept  it uncritically but  I absolutely know tha t humans can have this sort of experience.

The cosmic consciousness (aka god) has also allowed me to travel to many of the worlds of this galaxy and observe the inhabitants of many.  Of course it may not be real, but given other verified experiences it quite possibly is.   Sometime i would like to compare notes. 

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Mr Walker
17 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

Talking about nothing isn't preaching anything. 

Actually it is.

Preaching the non existence of anything is no different  from preaching the existence of something.

In both cases you are preaching a personal belief  eg preaching the existence of climate change or preaching the non existence of  climate change 

Atheists cant get out of it that easily by claiming atheism is not a belief.

It is, and can be nothing else BUT a belief construct. 

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Mr Walker
13 hours ago, ChrLzs said:

I don't want to harsh, but........  :devil:

The belief in any god is pure fantasy, as it is completely unsupported by evidence.  You may as well believe in those Invisible Unicorns.   

Observation and understanding of the complex beauty of reality is the absolute best thing in existence.  It is the ONLY thing.  Something that everyone should try (but some are far too lazy and they need to justify their misdemeanours, or simply pretend superiority..).  Embrace reality.

Sadly, religion is oft used to justify a racist stance or a war or a moral crime... that is what religion encourages by removing personal responsibility.  For some, that is a really dangerous (and often reprehensible) thing.

A person who knows god can only gently laugh at this arrogant belief  :)  ( Bolded bit)

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