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Claire.

Trump weighing military options in Syria

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Imaginarynumber1
3 minutes ago, F3SS said:

It looks a bit heavier than that.

Lovers quarrel? 

 

 

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Astra.

I'm curious as to what Putin's response will now be.. after Tillerson accused Russia of failing in its responsibility to secure and destroy Syria's chemical weapons stockpile under a 2013 agreement with Obama.

From what Iv'e gathered.. Tillerson is suppose to travel to Russia next week by meeting the Russian foreign minister in the hope of forming closer ties with Russia in the fight against ISIS. Seems this visit might possibly prove to be a little awkward in light of what's happened.

All in all, it's going to be interesting to see what the 'fallout' is now going to be after this US strike.

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Yamato
1 hour ago, Claire. said:

No, it's like saying what it's saying: that the rebels do not have the scientific expertise or finances to develop and stockpile chemical weapons like Sarin.

The following, by the way, is a scientific explanation on why the Russian explanation doesn't hold water:

Russia, the Syrian government’s main ally, claims the incident in Khan Sheikhoun happened when conventional air strikes hit a rebel-held cache or factory for chemical weapons. There are reasons to doubt this. For one thing, sarin is unstable, and the Assad regime chose to stockpile its precursor chemical, which would be mixed with another chemical just before use to produce sarin. Any rebel-made agent would probably be handled similarly. Hitting a cache of this would release little sarin.

Moreover, if Syrian air strikes released the agent by accidentally hitting an enemy cache, they were improbably lucky, as they managed to do the same thing at three separate locations in the area within 24 hours: SAMS reports two attacks on nearby villages the previous day that produced fewer casualties but with similar symptoms. And a Syrian government attack on a town near Palmyra last December also produced victims displaying symptoms of sarin. There was little international response, partly because “we cannot confirm the chemical used unless inspectors can take samples under proper conditions”, says Zanders.

Source: New Scientist

Assuming it's a "rebel made agent", assuming it wasn't just before use as if we have any knowledge about the logistics of the situation at all, it's assuming it's sarin, it's assuming that Assad ordered chemical weapons attacks on his own people, it's assuming it wasn't staged. 

I'm assuming that New Scientist isn't aware that for months terrorists Assad is fighting were planning to use chemical weapons and finger the Assad regime for it.   I'm not assuming this wasn't staged and that I can believe Al Qaeda and ISIS terrorists before I'm going to believe Assad is the greatest fool in the world.   This is the kind of sensationalized and predetermined escalation that once again sadly proves who we're in bed with.  

Regarding "evidence" there was no time for anything but a greyhound guilty until proven innocent straight back to "Assad Must Go."   This is reckless to the point of insanity.   This is also (once again) unconstitutional.   I'm to assume we have cart blanche to attack Syria without declaring war too?   According to our own rule of law this is a(nother) war crime. 

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Yamato
17 minutes ago, Astra. said:

I'm curious as to what Putin's response will now be.. after Tillerson accused Russia of failing in its responsibility to secure and destroy Syria's chemical weapons stockpile under a 2013 agreement with Obama.

From what Iv'e gathered.. Tillerson is suppose to travel to Russia next week by meeting the Russian foreign minister in the hope of forming closer ties with Russia in the fight against ISIS. Seems this visit might possibly prove to be a little awkward in light of what's happened.

All in all, it's going to be interesting to see what the 'fallout' is now going to be after this US strike.

One aspect of the fallout is it's going to be another bullseye on America's forehead. 

If we invade Syria, the fallout for that another endless military occupation.    What possible reason could we have to expect anything else?

Love the great lineup of Assad-replacements Trump's got ready to go too.   He's really thought this through.  

This is one of the worst cases of "Shoot First" I've ever seen.

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Hammerclaw
2 minutes ago, Yamato said:

One aspect of the fallout is it's going to be another bullseye on America's forehead. 

If we invade Syria, the fallout for that another endless military occupation.    What possible reason could we have to expect anything else?

Love the great lineup of Assad-replacements Trump's got ready to go too.   He's really thought this through.  

This is one of the worst cases of "Shoot First" I've ever seen.

Not really. It was just a little love tap, a wake up call to whom it may concern. The passive, belly up responses of the Obama era are over. Now there will be real consequences when their proxies attack our proxies. In for a penny, in for a pound.

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Yamato
1 hour ago, DarkHunter said:

You do know that bombs and artillery shells that release chemical agents are completely different then conventional bombs and artillery shells right.  Bombs and shells that release chemical agents are designed to spray them over a large area instead of detonating.  In normal high explosives the temperature normally gets to around 5,500 K at the moment of detonation, far higher temperatures then an artillery she'll being fired or a bomb being dropped would experience.

I'm positive that if ground crews could get to the site of the chemical attacks they would fine the bomb casings that were used to disperse the gas.

Of course there is exceptions with the dispersal method, like chlorine gas can be dispersed by an explosion, but it wasn't chlorine gas that was killing the people either.

Temperatures further distant from the blast aren't going to experience temperatures that high.

Bomb casings would be legitimate evidence.   It's a shame we don't have any.   60 missiles too late to run back to cover our necks now (politics).

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Yamato
1 minute ago, Hammerclaw said:

Not really. It was just a little love tap, a wake up call to whom it may concern. The passive, belly up responses of the Obama era are over. Now there will be real consequences when their proxies attack our proxies. In for a penny, in for a pound.

Well how wonderful it's the US's job to give love taps half the world away.   The Obama era is over, the Proxy War era has begun?   I'm thrilled.

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Hammerclaw
9 minutes ago, Yamato said:

Well how wonderful it's the US's job to give love taps half the world away.   The Obama era is over, the Proxy War era has begun?   I'm thrilled.

Yes, Since we already over anyway cleaning up the mess the Obama administration fomented, encouraged, and then abandoned the people he once promised to help to their fate, letting the Russians have free rein to bomb the people who trusted us into oblivion.  The are few good options but us doing nothing was the worst.  If you don't believe me, ask the refugees.  

Edited by Hammerclaw
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Not Your Huckleberry

I don't like this one bit and everything reeks of BS, but I think this has much less to do with Syria and Assad and more to do with the China vs. Japan conflict. In my opinion, we wouldn't have seen such a grotesque and virulent response had Trump not just recently met with Xi. Why else would we destroy a single base with 50+ cruise missiles when it only would've taken five or six? It was a way of tugging at Xi's shirt sleeve and saying, "Psst, hey! Look what we can do. Whaddya think about our aging technology now?" It was an indirect threat.

Again, I can only see this ending badly and its straight out of the neocon playbook. 

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Yamato
Just now, Hammerclaw said:

Yes, Since we already over anyway cleaning up the mess the Obama administration fomented, encouraged, and then abandoned the people he once promised to help to their fate, letting the Russians have free rein to bomb the people who trusted us into oblivion.  The are few good option but  us doing nothing was the worst. If you don't believe me, ask the refugees.  

Sorry I can't believe that Assad's the singular bad guy and Al Qaeda and ISIS are good guys.  "Just kill everyone." is an asinine proposition even if it was our job.   Another nanny state for us to nanny over?   Oh joy!   Conservatism is dead.

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Yamato
5 minutes ago, Not Your Huckleberry said:

I don't like this one bit and everything reeks of BS, but I think this has much less to do with Syria and Assad and more to do with the China vs. Japan conflict. In my opinion, we wouldn't have seen such a grotesque and virulent response had Trump not just recently met with Xi. Why else would we destroy a single base with 50+ cruise missiles when it only would've taken five or six? It was a way of tugging at Xi's shirt sleeve and saying, "Psst, hey! Look what we can do. Whaddya think about our aging technology now?" It was an indirect threat.

Again, I can only see this ending badly and its straight out of the neocon playbook. 

Straight out of the neocon playbook!

It was also about 16 hours after Russia said it was ready to view West Jerusalem as the capital of Israel, and East Jerusalem the capital of Palestine.

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Hammerclaw
1 minute ago, Not Your Huckleberry said:

I don't like this one bit and everything reeks of BS, but I think this has much less to do with Syria and Assad and more to do with the China vs. Japan conflict. In my opinion, we wouldn't have seen such a grotesque and virulent response had Trump not just recently met with Xi. Why else would we destroy a single base with 50+ cruise missiles when it only would've taken five or six? It was a way of tugging at Xi's shirt sleeve and saying, "Psst, hey! Look what we can do. Whaddya think about our aging technology now?" It was an indirect threat.

Again, I can only see this ending badly and its straight out of the neocon playbook. 

It was a better move than Clinton bombing a baby food factory and some empty tents. I think the military minds behind this sortie knew exactly what they were doing by inflicting maximum damage with minimal effort and in short time. Putin will have come to terms with an administration capable and willing to play hardball, too.

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Tatetopa
8 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

  If you don't believe me, ask the refugees.

We don't really seem to care what happens to the refugees.  This is not about humanitarian concerns, it is about power, and maybe even a political distraction for the presidency.  There will be a lot of losers in this situation,  but president Trump seems to be a winner.  Maybe I have grown too cynical.

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Hammerclaw
Just now, Tatetopa said:

We don't really seem to care what happens to the refugees.  This is not about humanitarian concerns, it is about power, and maybe even a political distraction for the presidency.  There will be a lot of losers in this situation,  but president Trump seems to be a winner.  Maybe I have grown too cynical.

...There is neither East nor West, border nor breed nor birth,

   When two strong men stand face to face, 'though they come from the ends of the Earth. It's about respect. The Russians had lost respect for us and our power and power, pomp and ceremony is something they understand. They've been treated with a dose of their own medicine.

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Yamato

For the record, this is Hillary Clinton's idea.  She just talked about this in an interview a day or two ago.   Pathetic!

If I were Putin I'd bring the mother load of advanced SAMs to Syria and Iran, try to coordinate defensive measures in Iran with China, and consider a large forward deployment of air power in Iran. 

This is the same old neocon cheese we've smelled before.   They've got a great new playboy in the White House for all their mess making needs.   Some people have no nose for BS.  

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Yamato
20 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

It was a better move than Clinton bombing a baby food factory and some empty tents. I think the military minds behind this sortie knew exactly what they were doing by inflicting maximum damage with minimal effort and in short time. Putin will have come to terms with an administration capable and willing to play hardball, too.

Oh I remember that story.  Clinton bombed an aspirin factory to distract away from the Monica Lewinsky scandal.   It's very telling that would even be brought up in comparison to this.

But of course Trump would never do such a thing.  It was about politics then, but now it's not.   :rolleyes:

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Hammerclaw
8 minutes ago, Yamato said:

For the record, this is Hillary Clinton's idea.  She just talked about this in an interview a day or two ago.   Pathetic!

If I were Putin I'd bring the mother load of advanced SAMs to Syria and Iran, try to coordinate defensive measures in Iran with China, and consider a large forward deployment of air power in Iran. 

This is the same old neocon cheese we've smelled before.   They've got a great new playboy in the White House for all their mess making needs.   Some people have no nose for BS.  

Sniff, Sniff. Could be you, doc.

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Yamato
Just now, Hammerclaw said:

Sniff, Sniff. Could be you, doc.

Well I'm not camping with you, Hillary, Trump, Al Qaeda and the US media.   No thanks I'm good. 

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Hammerclaw
2 minutes ago, Yamato said:

Oh I remember that story.  Clinton bombed an aspirin factory to distract away from the Monica Lewinsky scandal.   It's very telling that would even be brought up in comparison to this.

But of course Trump would never do such a thing.  It was about politics then, but now it's not.   :rolleyes:

No, you don't get it. What Clinton did was just a gesture, fling a few missiles here and there without accomplishing anything. Trumps move was a solid, unambiguous effective military response to a military provocation. He not only drew his own line in the sand he backed up his words with action immediately.

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acidhead

Hmm.. everyone has an opinion and I have mine and it hasn't changed much.  From what I understand the Russians have a missle system in Syria which could have easily intercepted the Tomahawk missles yet they didn't take them out. Who benefits from Syria falling apart?  And don't think short term think long term who will claim the majority of this country.

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RavenHawk
2 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

No, you don't get it. What Clinton did was just a gesture, fling a few missiles here and there without accomplishing anything. Trumps move was a solid, unambiguous effective military response to a military provocation. He not only drew his own line in the sand he backed up his words with action immediately.

It sent a solid message to all our enemies and it embarrassed Russia.  It perhaps dealt us back in and took Syria back.  Trump can now dictate to Putin if he can keep Tartus and establish the pipeline to coexist.  It also assured our allies.  He banked a lot of political capital today.  Can he keep this going now?  He went a long way to establish a peace dividend, don't lose it!

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Raptor Witness
45 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

It was a better move than Clinton bombing a baby food factory and some empty tents. I think the military minds behind this sortie knew exactly what they were doing by inflicting maximum damage with minimal effort and in short time. Putin will have come to terms with an administration capable and willing to play hardball, too.

Trump is out of his league.

Hardball would be hitting the Presidential Palaces, all of them, at the same time.

That would have been my move on Assad. Make it personal.

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RavenHawk
4 minutes ago, Raptor Witness said:

Trump is out of his league.

Hardball would be hitting the Presidential Palaces, all of them, at the same time.

That would have been my move on Assad. Make it personal.

The world isn't in his league.  They will be forced to react to him.  This is only the 1st inning.  He's only saying hello...We're back!

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acidhead

Im more intetested in what Assad is thinking.  Wondering why his supposed Russian friends didn't take out those missles which they easily could have.  Im also interested if Assad doesnt publically question it Why? Who do you work for Assad?

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Yamato
13 minutes ago, acidhead said:

Hmm.. everyone has an opinion and I have mine and it hasn't changed much.  From what I understand the Russians have a missle system in Syria which could have easily intercepted the Tomahawk missles yet they didn't take them out. Who benefits from Syria falling apart?  And don't think short term think long term who will claim the majority of this country.

Israel and non-state terrorist groups Al Qaeda, ISIS, other non-state actors - ergo the ones at war with Assad.   It was obvious who the sweethearts are from Trump's AIPAC speech acidhead.   Sheldon Adelson's money, bearing fruit.

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