Is North Korea really a problem?

[Einsteinium]

13 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

There are cruder and just as effective ways of delivering a nuclear payload, missiles not required. They could load one on a motorboat twenty miles offshore and steer it remotely into one of our harbors, any time. Are you prepared to risk the loss of New York, Sidney, Honolulu, or any other Western target he may choose on the efficacy of containment? 

You must really be paranoid, wow.

NK ultimately just wants to be left alone. They are not Jihadists who want to spread radical Islam all over the world by any means necessary. You don't see many people here in the US 'self radicalizing' and proclaiming allegiance to Little Kim like we see with ISIS.

NK has nothing to gain and everything to lose by attacking us in that manner. Your paranoid mentality is the same mentality that Little Kim has with regards to us, that paranoia is the exact reason why he is so keen on developing Nukes in the first place, as a deterrent to hopefully stop us from attacking him. I suppose you could argue that he is crazy and unpredictable, but that is exactly the way he wants the world to view him. It is like Nixon's 'madman' theory. I do agree that he is crazy, but I don't think he is stupid.

[CrimsonKing]

3 minutes ago, Einsteinium said:

You must really be paranoid, wow.

NK ultimately just wants to be left alone. They are not Jihadists who want to spread radical Islam all over the world by any means necessary. You don't see many people here in the US 'self radicalizing' and proclaiming allegiance to Little Kim like we see with ISIS.

NK has nothing to gain and everything to lose by attacking us in that manner. Your paranoid mentality is the same mentality that Little Kim has with regards to us, that paranoia is the exact reason why he is so keen on developing Nukes in the first place, as a deterrent to hopefully stop us from attacking him. I suppose you could argue that he is crazy and unpredictable, but that is exactly the way he wants the world to view him. It is like Nixon's 'madman' theory. I do agree that he is crazy, but I don't think he is stupid.

I would't exactly say he wants to be left alone...

He wants nukes so he can extort freebies out of other countries through threats!

Half of his economy is ran through counterfitting US currency 

Sorry but tinpot dictators shouldn't have nukes...jmo 

[Space Commander Travis]

5 minutes ago, Einsteinium said:

You must really be paranoid, wow.

NK ultimately just wants to be left alone. They are not Jihadists who want to spread radical Islam all over the world by any means necessary. You don't see many people here in the US 'self radicalizing' and proclaiming allegiance to Little Kim like we see with ISIS.

NK has nothing to gain and everything to lose by attacking us in that manner. Your paranoid mentality is the same mentality that Little Kim has with regards to us, that paranoia is the exact reason why he is so keen on developing Nukes in the first place, as a deterrent to hopefully stop us from attacking him. I suppose you could argue that he is crazy and unpredictable, but that is exactly the way he wants the world to view him. It is like Nixon's 'madman' theory. I do agree that he is crazy, but I don't think he is stupid.

Did you see the theory that the Deepwater Horizon rig may have been torpedoed by a N. Korean mini submarine that was smuggled into the Gulf of Mexico on a merchant ship bound for Cuba? That was actually put forward as a rational theory (well, a theory anyway) by someone, who may well be in Trump's cabinet by now. Possibly Sen. "Mad Dog" McCain (R-Barking Mad).

[+Hammerclaw]

2 minutes ago, Einsteinium said:

You must really be paranoid, wow.

NK ultimately just wants to be left alone. They are not Jihadists who want to spread radical Islam all over the world by any means necessary. You don't see many people here in the US 'self radicalizing' and proclaiming allegiance to Little Kim like we see with ISIS.

NK has nothing to gain and everything to lose by attacking us in that manner. Your paranoid mentality is the same mentality that Little Kim has with regards to us, that paranoia is the exact reason why he is so keen on developing Nukes in the first place, as a deterrent to hopefully stop us from attacking him. I suppose you could argue that he is crazy and unpredictable, but that is exactly the way he wants the world to view him. It is like Nixon's 'madman' theory. I do agree that he is crazy, but I don't think he is stupid.

And you must be living in a fool's paradise. The man is a medieval tyrant who has his enemies, even his own relatives, executed for his own entertainment in the most gruesome manners. Yet you, living safe and secure in the heartland in your Leave it to Beaver neighborhood are willing to risk the lives of millions on the gamble that the sadistic megalomaniac will always behave consistently and rationally.  You also pretend you know what he's thinking and what he will and will not do. How silly is that? 

[Farmer77]

 

Just now, Hammerclaw said:

Yet you, living safe and secure in the heartland in your Leave it to Beaver neighborhood are willing to risk the lives of millions on the gamble that the sadistic megalomaniac will always behave consistently and rationally.

Its more than a little disingenuous for you to talk about people "willing to risk lives" when the very thing you are advocating will instantly kill hundreds of thousands of South Koreans. 

Just now, Hammerclaw said:

You also pretend you know what he's thinking and what he will and will not do. How silly is that? 

Speaking of disingenuous you're advocating war based on the fact that you think you know what he's thinking. 

Edited April 26, 2017 by Farmer77

[Space Commander Travis]

7 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

Its more than a little disingenuous for you to talk about people "willing to risk lives" when the very thing you are advocating will instantly kill hundreds of thousands of South Koreans. 

Koreans (of any kind) don't matter! It's only Mercans* that matter.

If Hammerclaw tries to deny this he's less honest than some of his fellow rightwingers, who quite openly say this, and in a way I rather respect them for their honesty. 

*  

[+Hammerclaw]

18 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

 

Its more than a little disingenuous for you to talk about people "willing to risk lives" when the very thing you are advocating will instantly kill hundreds of thousands of South Koreans. 

Speaking of disingenuous you're advocating war based on the fact that you think you know what he's thinking. 

When it comes to war, the only lives that matter are those of your own people. The only thing  I advocate is vigilance and that we prepare for any contingency. South Koreans knows what's at stake and have made preparations for decades. Hiding under your bed, trembling,  because you haven't the stomach for what may need to be done, won't change anything. 

Edited April 26, 2017 by Hammerclaw

[Farmer77]

Just now, Hammerclaw said:

When it comes to war, the only lives that matter are those of your own people. The only thing  I advocate is vigilance and that we prepare for any contingency. South Koreans knows what's at stake have made preparations for decades. Hiding under your bed, trembling,  because you haven't the stomach for what may need to be done, won't change anything. 

Its not about "hiding under my bed" its about a lifetime's worth of experiencing trauma and human suffering up close and personal and not wanting that to happen to anyone for any reason, until it has to. I just dont see a compelling argument that the maniacal rush to war with N. Korea is something that actually has to be done at this time. 

[Space Commander Travis]

6 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

When it comes to war, the only lives that matter are those of your own people. The only thing  I advocate is vigilance and that we prepare for any contingency. South Koreans knows what's at stake and have made preparations for decades. Hiding under your bed, trembling,  because you haven't the stomach for what may need to be done, won't change anything. 

Who's the one hiding under the bed trembling here? The one with their paranoid dreams of nukes smuggled onto boats sneaking into a harbour near you? 

[+Hammerclaw]

1 minute ago, Farmer77 said:

Its not about "hiding under my bed" its about a lifetime's worth of experiencing trauma and human suffering up close and personal and not wanting that to happen to anyone for any reason, until it has to. I just dont see a compelling argument that the maniacal rush to war with N. Korea is something that actually has to be done at this time. 

Yes, Frodo. So do all people who live through such times. We must do what we can with what time we have before it reaches the point of no return. With such as he, retreat and capitulation are not options.

[CrimsonKing]

3 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

Its not about "hiding under my bed" its about a lifetime's worth of experiencing trauma and human suffering up close and personal and not wanting that to happen to anyone for any reason, until it has to. I just dont see a compelling argument that the maniacal rush to war with N. Korea is something that actually has to be done at this time. 

I like what you are saying here,but i think this one needs to be taken care of before future tragic consequences unfold...

I just wish we woulda/coulda not ruffled feathers in Syria at the same time...that mess keeps me shaking my head 

[Space Commander Travis]

Quote

Yes, Frodo. So do all people who live through such times. We must do what we can with what time we have before it reaches the point of no return. With such as he, retreat and capitulation are not options.

Holy crap, now you're channeling Churchill, or one of FDR's Fireside Chats.

Edited April 26, 2017 by Manfred von Dreidecker

[+Hammerclaw]

Just now, Manfred von Dreidecker said:

Who's the one hiding under the bed trembling here? The one with their paranoid dreams of nukes smuggled onto boats sneaking into a harbour near you? 

Actually, I live near and work in Oak Ridge, so my paranoia is of missiles not boats and not from North Korea. 

[+Hammerclaw]

1 minute ago, Manfred von Dreidecker said:

Holy crap, now you're channeling Churchill, or one of FDR's Fireside Chats.

JRR Tolkien.

[Farmer77]

Just now, Hammerclaw said:

Yes, Frodo. So do all people who live through such times. We must do what we can with what time we have before it reaches the point of no return. With such as he, retreat and capitulation are not options.

There would be no retreat if not for our presidents bluster !!!! It would just be a fat lonely dude in a hell hole of a nation screaming about how nobody better touch his stuff. Trump has given Kim legitimacy by responding to him as he has done. 

[+Hammerclaw]

4 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

There would be no retreat if not for our presidents bluster !!!! It would just be a fat lonely dude in a hell hole of a nation screaming about how nobody better touch his stuff. Trump has given Kim legitimacy by responding to him as he has done. 

Burying your head in the sand won't change the fact he is a madman with a nuclear arsenal! Trump is calling his bluff. If he's the sane, reasonable maniacal sadist you think he is, you've nothing to worry about. If not, best to find out now, while in a position of strength. It should be obvious to everyone including Kim, we're not flooding troops into South Korea, as we did the Middle East, to invade. 

[Einsteinium]

25 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

And you must be living in a fool's paradise. The man is a medieval tyrant who has his enemies, even his own relatives, executed for his own entertainment in the most gruesome manners. Yet you, living safe and secure in the heartland in your Leave it to Beaver neighborhood are willing to risk the lives of millions on the gamble that the sadistic megalomaniac will always behave consistently and rationally.  You also pretend you know what he's thinking and what he will and will not do. How silly is that? 

I know what he has done. I am not naiive. Nor am I living in a fool's paradise.

I simply have found a way to balance my paranoia with rationality. NK simply has nothing to gain by attacking us with nukes. Indeed, doing so would end the regime once and for all and turn their only ally, China, completely against them. Rational or not, Little Kim knows this and he is rightly terrified of us. He personally has nothing to gain by nuking us but his own death. That is a damn good incentive not to do anything. 

Maybe Russia will nuke us and make it look like NK did it so Trump has a reason to invade.....haha just kidding, but I bet some conspiracy nuts out there are thinking about that.

[Farmer77]

North Korea’s Special Operations forces are numerous, mysterious and formidable 

The war drums are reaching a crescendo when the Washpo joins in, rather conveniently laying the groundwork  for Americans to expect an attack which will be much less clear than a missile launch from the north perhaps. 

[Farmer77]

Just now, Hammerclaw said:

Burying your head in the sand won't change the fact he is a madman with a nuclear arsenal! Trump is calling his bluff. If he's the sane, reasonable maniacal sadist you think he is, you've nothing to worry about. If not, best to find out now, while in a position of strength. It should be obvious to everyone including Kim, we're not flooding troops into South Korea, as we did the Middle East, to invade. 

Haha you misunderstand.

There are two spoiled rich kids with no real life experience waging a war of words , im just as worried about the nutjob with the bigger arsenal kicking this whole thing off as I am about the one with a wannabe arsenal. 

[+Hammerclaw]

23 minutes ago, Einsteinium said:

I know what he has done. I am not naiive. Nor am I living in a fool's paradise.

I simply have found a way to balance my paranoia with rationality. NK simply has nothing to gain by attacking us with nukes. Indeed, doing so would end the regime once and for all and turn their only ally, China, completely against them. Rational or not, Little Kim knows this and he is rightly terrified of us. He personally has nothing to gain by nuking us but his own death. That is a damn good incentive not to do anything. 

Maybe Russia will nuke us and make it look like NK did it so Trump has a reason to invade.....haha just kidding, but I bet some conspiracy nuts out there are thinking about that.

Neither Russia nor China want the humanitarian crisis at their borders if there was war.   Trump is taking a page from Teddy Roosevelt's book and waiving the big stick, right now.

Edited April 26, 2017 by Hammerclaw

[CrimsonKing]

3 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

Haha you misunderstand.

There are two spoiled rich kids with no real life experience waging a war of words , im just as worried about the nutjob with the bigger arsenal kicking this whole thing off as I am about the one with a wannabe arsenal. 

I just hope Trump doesn't start playing a game of "hold my beer and watch this" on the world stage 

[Einsteinium]

1 minute ago, Hammerclaw said:

Neither Russia nor China want the humanitarian crisis at their borders if there was war.   Trump is taking a page Teddy Roosevelt's book and waiving the big stick, right now.

We shall see how it all plays out. Not like any of us can do anything to change it anyways.

Unless you, Hammerclaw, are Trump's secret online persona! Get back to work!

[+Hammerclaw]

15 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

Haha you misunderstand.

There are two spoiled rich kids with no real life experience waging a war of words , im just as worried about the nutjob with the bigger arsenal kicking this whole thing off as I am about the one with a wannabe arsenal. 

He is surrounded by military minds that won't allow him to do anything rash and stupid. I don't much care for the man as he is abrasive and often crude in the most irritating manner--but he's the only President we have at the moment. 

Edited April 26, 2017 by Hammerclaw

[Lilly]

Update: Now Kim Jong Un is threatening Australia: http://www.news.com.au/finance/work/leaders/north-korean-threats-show-kim-jongun-is-under-pressure-ambassador-says/news-story/fd85d8ea0dd13a36ec7be483cbc861f4

[+Hammerclaw]

14 minutes ago, Einsteinium said:

We shall see how it all plays out. Not like any of us can do anything to change it anyways.

Unless you, Hammerclaw, are Trump's secret online persona! Get back to work!

If I was, I'd fly out to the Carl Vinson and do the absolutely inconceivable and invite Kim over for crumpets and tea and cut a deal. Who knows? Maybe the guy's a Republican.