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imrunningthismonkeyfarm

Is North Korea really a problem?

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RoofGardener
4 hours ago, DieChecker said:

To the OP question, if the NK are a real threat... I'd say yes. They continue to develop longer range delivery systems, and increased warhead yields. If we assume they aren't idiots, then even a fishing boat could be a delivery system, and could show up in San Francisco Bay and go off. Perhaps even by remote control.

Much like checking everyone for metal weapons at the airport, US Customs searching all cargo containers at US ports is just for show. A real terrorist nuke could just sail up in a yacht, or big fishing boat. Seattle, Portland, Vancouver (I know that's Canada, but does Kim know that?), San Francisco, Los Angles, San Diego... All major west coast cities that could be severely hit by a sea (or river in Portland's case) borne nuke.

It's a worrying scenario to be sure. However, crossing the Pacific would require a fairly substantial ship. You wouldn't want to do the journey on a small fishing boat. Apart from the danger of severe storms sinking it, even a mild storm would risk shaking the Nuke' to pieces. 

I'd like to think that any ship of significant size approaching the US seaboard would be monitored and identified, a bit like air traffic control, and its port of origin confirmed ? 

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Dumbledore the Awesome
37 minutes ago, Merc14 said:

You're getting boring, why don't you give it a break.

It';s wrong when mad dictators show off their nuclear hardware, but it's a display of American might to instil pride when America does it? Some might see that as double standards.

 

Edited by Manfred von Dreidecker
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LV-426
10 hours ago, Manfred von Dreidecker said:

Introducing the new, Improved, now Even More Accurate B61-12 Gravity Nuclear Bomb!  http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-04-14/us-conducts-successful-field-test-new-nuclear-gravity-bomb

Trying to look at this logically, we live in a world with nuclear weapons. That's just an inescapable fact of life.

They can't be uninvented, and countries that already possess them would be committing suicide to unilaterally disarm in this crazy world we live in.

Looking at the specs for this new bomb, it's being sold as "a bomb that can make more accurate nuclear strikes and a warhead whose destructive power can be adjusted to minimize collateral damage and radioactive fallout."

Now, yes... it's still a nuclear bomb, but I'd say accuracy, minimized collateral damage and reduced fallout seem like pretty good concessions in a weapon of mass destruction.

I can't imagine Kim Jong-un wants to build weapons with these specs.

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Dumbledore the Awesome

The trouble is though, the more they boast about how "accurate" it is and how much they can "miminise collatoral damage" and all the rest of the soothing euphemisms they use, the more some particularly gung-ho General (or some President moved, once again, to tears by more beautiful babies) might be tempted to reach for it, mightn't they. After his MOAB, what better as the next step in a demonstration of power to remind old Kim what we can do?

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LV-426

We'll find out in the coming days I guess. What options are there realistically though?

Kim Jong-un is intent on developing nuclear weapons. Sanctions aren't working. They're just starving North Korea's people, while the nutcase rules with an iron fist and continues with his madcap plans.

If it's not possible to halt the proliferation of nuclear weapons with sanctions, the problem is only going to get bigger, and the potential for casualties on both sides is only going to get higher.

Military strength may well be the only thing that brings Kim Jong-un back to reality.

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Dumbledore the Awesome

I wish someone would bring Trump back to reality. The astonishing thing is that so few people seem to be concerned about his clearly fragile mental state.  Or those that were, or claimed to, are now the ones whooping and cheering him because he's finally Doing Something about the world's dictators.

Edited by Manfred von Dreidecker
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CrimsonKing
9 minutes ago, Manfred von Dreidecker said:

 Or those that were, or claimed to, are now the ones whooping and cheering him

If only things weren't typed here and archived the hysterical amount of hypocrisy couldn't be called out,but as one can see from the silence of the once loudly brash talking heads...life isn't so simple :lol:

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fred_mc
1 hour ago, RoofGardener said:

It's a worrying scenario to be sure. However, crossing the Pacific would require a fairly substantial ship. You wouldn't want to do the journey on a small fishing boat. Apart from the danger of severe storms sinking it, even a mild storm would risk shaking the Nuke' to pieces. 

I'd like to think that any ship of significant size approaching the US seaboard would be monitored and identified, a bit like air traffic control, and its port of origin confirmed ? 

I read that North Korea has quite many submarines (even though they are pretty old). I guess that they could cross the sea without being detected.

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fred_mc
18 hours ago, Lilly said:

To answer the question: Is North Korea really a problem? first answer this question: Is an utter lunatic with nuclear weapons really a problem?

Unfortunately, there is a lunatic with nuclear weapons in the White House as well. Many people feared that Trump would win the presidential elections, at least here in Sweden. They couldn't imagine such a lunatic to be in control of the US nuclear weapons, and now it is a fact that he is in control.

Edited by fred_mc
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Dumbledore the Awesome
44 minutes ago, fred_mc said:

Unfortunately, there is a lunatic with nuclear weapons in the White House as well. Many people feared that Trump would win the presidential election, at least here in Sweden, since they didn't want such a lunatic to be in control of the US nuclear weapons, and now it is a fact that he is in control.

That's exactly it. Would N. Korea have suddenly become this supposed great menace to the world if the American President hadn't proved himself to be, to put it most kindly, extremely emotionally unstable and prone to kneejerk reactions or, to put it less kindly, a mere puppet of the real powers behind the scenes and who, having no backbone at all, can be manipulated into doing whatever they want if it means holding onto the "power" his ambition has brought him to?

Some people did indeed consider him to be vastly preferable to Hillary for precisely that reason; the reason that he's now gone back on so completely, that he did, up until a week or two ago even, seem to talk sense when it came to military interventions, regime change, getting involved in Syria and so on. That's why they hate him so strongly now, because he has revealed himself to be an utter liar, fraud and hypocrite, and now very clearly mentally highly unstable and prone to childlike tantrums and whims of sheer petulance.

Edited by Manfred von Dreidecker

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CrimsonKing
3 minutes ago, fred_mc said:

Unfortunately, there is a lunatic with nuclear weapons in the White House as well. Many people feared that Trump would win the presidential elections, at least here in Sweden, since they didn't want such a lunatic to be in control of the US nuclear weapons, and now it is a fact that he is in control.

Not just in Sweden,we heard it here daily for over a year from all around the world including many of our fellow US dems...

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susieice

Kim has been a major problem long before Trump came to office. Most of these nuclear tests were carried out over a period of years before the last election. I wonder what Hillary would have done, but the blame for all this doesn't fall on the shoulders of one. It's only a matter of time before Kim does something really stupid. Should we give him the chance? Then it will be, why didn't someone do something. It's a no win situation with someone who is that hellbent on causing a very large problem.

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CrimsonKing
3 minutes ago, susieice said:

Kim has been a major problem long before Trump came to office. Most of these nuclear tests were carried out over a period of years before the last election. I wonder what Hillary would have done, but the blame for all this doesn't fall on the shoulders of one. It's only a matter of time before Kim does something really stupid. Should we give him the chance? Then it will be, why didn't someone do something. It's a no win situation with someone who is that hellbent on causing a very large problem.

Very true on this one ;)

11 years ago when his dad did their first succesfull nuke test an end should have been put to that regime at once!

Being in a 50+ year cease fire with them at the time,we shoulda actually finished the war once and for all...

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kartikg

why people are saying Kim is a lunatic? he is the one who is started somewhat of a economic reform and is sending lot of students abroad he himself is educated in West and BTW just few months ago every analyst on tv was saying that north Korea has still a long way to put nukes on icbm why suddenly this urgency? and it seems that usa needs to brand the leaders as either evil or lunatic before bombing. 

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CrimsonKing
5 minutes ago, kartikg said:

why people are saying Kim is a lunatic? he is the one who is started somewhat of a economic reform and is sending lot of students abroad he himself is educated in West and BTW just few months ago every analyst on tv was saying that north Korea has still a long way to put nukes on icbm why suddenly this urgency? and it seems that usa needs to brand the leaders as either evil or lunatic before bombing. 

Well seeing as how his country still has an estimated 150-200k in "work camps",any time he tests anything he spews rhetoric about the US and SK,and well the war never actually ended so why wait till he is capable of causing massive amounts of destruction over long ranges?!...

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Merc14
3 hours ago, Manfred von Dreidecker said:

It';s wrong when mad dictators show off their nuclear hardware, but it's a display of American might to instil pride when America does it? Some might see that as double standards.

BOOOORRRRIIIINNNGGGGG!!!!!!!  

You are a bore!  You are boring all of us with your endless single issue whining.  I don't f'ing care if you see it as a double standard, that just means you haven't the brains to worry that a mad man has nuclear tipped missiles that he threatens to use daily.  You don't like Trump, we get it, we all get it and we have been getting it for a week now so WHY continuously post the same thing over and over again?    That was my question, I posted nothing about Kim's little parade I just want to know why you are stuck on this single issue and feel the need to post 80 times a day a bout it, endlessly repeating the same drivel?  

 

Never mind, I'll stick you on ignore with that other idiot yamato, you two belong together, two boring, whining, obsessed man-childs

 

 

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Merc14
13 minutes ago, kartikg said:

why people are saying Kim is a lunatic? he is the one who is started somewhat of a economic reform and is sending lot of students abroad he himself is educated in West and BTW just few months ago every analyst on tv was saying that north Korea has still a long way to put nukes on icbm why suddenly this urgency? and it seems that usa needs to brand the leaders as either evil or lunatic before bombing. 

Maybe because he had his brother killed with a chemical weapon, blew up his uncle with a flame thrower, killed 5 officials with an antiaircraft cannon for inaccurate reports, killed his aunt for grieving about the uncle too long, is starving an entire country and has hundreds of thousands in prison camps and on and on.  http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/05/13/kim-jong-un-s-cruel-unusual-executions.html  

 

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susieice
17 minutes ago, kartikg said:

why people are saying Kim is a lunatic? he is the one who is started somewhat of a economic reform and is sending lot of students abroad he himself is educated in West and BTW just few months ago every analyst on tv was saying that north Korea has still a long way to put nukes on icbm why suddenly this urgency? and it seems that usa needs to brand the leaders as either evil or lunatic before bombing. 

I know of no one else who is testing nuclear weapons and saying the things he says. For someone who is Western educated, he doesn't have many good things to say about the West. What is he sending students abroad to study? N. Korea isn't an active participant in anything humanitarian or research oriented except for stockpiling a weapons arsenal that I've seen. I could be wrong, but offhand, I can't think of anything else. We can just sit back and let this keep escalating. We've done that for 11 years, but when something happens, it will be why did you let this go on like that. We're damned if we do and we're damned if we don't. Not so sure we should wait to see what happens 11 years from now. There are a lot more methods of delivery than an ICBM. He doesn't even have to hit the US. S. Korea, Japan, even Australia is currently in range. I don't think this guy cares who he hits as long as he gets the reaction he wants. He won't. Not now or then. How long should we sit and wait to see what he does. His threats are constant.

 

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F3SS

Could a nuke create a tidal wave sizeable enough to cause serious damage if detonated off shore of a coastal city? I recall that being a possibility on something I watched some time ago. That entire country is insane. China ought to just take over it. Who would have a problem with that? Chinese communism doesn't seem very fun to me but would be absolute freedom to the liberated North Korean citizens. I've often wondered how damaged they are like how would they or could they even adjust to anything else? I get the sense that the entire country suffers from serious Stockholm syndrome. 

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imrunningthismonkeyfarm
On 15 April 2017 at 1:00 AM, Gromdor said:

Technically, we just have a cease-fire with them.  We never managed to "blow the crap" out of them in the beginning.

Technically we haven't fired anything anyway so where does a ceasefire come into it?

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imrunningthismonkeyfarm
On 15 April 2017 at 1:44 AM, Lilly said:

To answer the question: Is North Korea really a problem? first answer this question: Is an utter lunatic with nuclear weapons really a problem?

What you mean like Putin? Or maybe the Iranian leader? I see a pattern emerging here.

Or is it the fat Trump throwing his weight about whose the lunatic?

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CrimsonKing
5 minutes ago, SNR said:

Technically we haven't fired anything anyway so where does a ceasefire come into it?

The ceasefire has been in effect 60+ years and has mostly stood except when porky and his daddy have tried provoking a response...The war never really came to an official end.

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F3SS

Apparently nukes and tsunamis are a well known/researched idea. A google search brings up tons of info, seemingly recent, I haven't looked at yet but according to this link https://what-if.xkcd.com/15/ which breezes over several decades of research but seems to end with info dating up to 1996 the short answer is that big and quickly dissipating waves would ensue but nothing like a tsunami that mother nature can produce. Lots of the other links  I haven't looked at seem to point to more recent technology/rumors.

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Frank Merton
2 minutes ago, CrimsonKing said:

The ceasefire has been in effect 60+ years and has mostly stood except when porky and his daddy have tried provoking a response...The war never really came to an official end.

One doesn't know what the leadership of the North is capable of, official war or not.  The fact that they continue to work and spend lots of money they need for other things on development of missiles and nuclear weapons, for no reason other than such a war, makes them automatically suspect.  The official excuse, deterrence, is nonsense.  No one is planning to invade them and the Chinese would in that case protect them.  This makes their behavior scary.

The more countries that have nuclear weapons, the more dangerous the world is, and the destabilization that proliferation brings has been well documented.  It has to be prevented, in my opinion by preemptive action when nothing else works.

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