Jump to content
Join the Unexplained Mysteries community today! It's free and setting up an account only takes a moment.
- Sign In or Create Account -
imrunningthismonkeyfarm

Is North Korea really a problem?

875 posts in this topic

Recommended Posts

Einsteinium
1 hour ago, Merc14 said:

Allowing these thugs to fester and metastasize is what is dangerous.

I completely agree Merc. What Bill Clinton did was a disaster and what Obama did with Iran likely will be a disaster as well in terms of allowing them to obtain Nuclear weapons. However, that being said, what Trump has said about letting South Korea/Japan have Nukes is equally just as troubling. They are our allies now, but as you know things can change. We cannot be complacent, yet we must acknowledge that much of the rest of the world see's the US as the only country who ever used Nukes against an enemy. We make them afraid, and that fear drives them to do extreme things, like develop nukes because they think that is the only way to stop us from invading them. They see what happened to Saddam and Qaddafi and think, gee, maybe I am next unless I have a nuclear deterrent.

I have never said we should give them money and let them develop nukes, I am merely trying to look at it from their point of view as I think it is important to do that from time to time. It is important to carefully consider what the unintended consequences of our actions could be before we act. If we don't do that, then we will just wind up with another Iraq. In Iraq you can see what it looks like when we invade and force a regime change and then have no plan on the back end to sustain it. It was a disaster. We never should have been there to begin with, and once there Obama never should have pulled us out so soon. Now we have ISIS. Our actions, especially our military actions, have serious consequences and do not always result in a safer, better world, and can demonstrably be shown to have a net negative effect on world stability and safety if we fail to do our homework and make sure our use of force is the best option to pick from.

We have had great successes, don't get me wrong, and we hesitate to call our failures failures. But we have had some pretty big failures from WW2 until now along with some amazing successes.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
F3SS
17 hours ago, Yamato said:

In the event Trump shoots his bombs off again, they'll enter North Korea not as Regime Changers but as bulwarks to US aggression and a stabilizing force.   It's not that they're all medics but medical aid et al is representative of the mission.   If Kim then rolls a nuke into Seoul on a wheelbarrow and kills a million people, the resident neocons will cream their jeans after Trump patriotically retaliates with beautiful nukes and kills another million people.

That's a terrible thing to say. It's an emotional attack based on ignorance or hatred. Nobody wants any of that to happen. That's a distorted lens you see people through.

2 hours ago, SNR said:

Yh yh its a crazy place and America ain't PMSL.

 You actually believe all you post don't you?

I get the feeling that N Korea hasn't forgotten like all the other nations Americas bombed won't forget. I doubt we'll see it on our lifetime but trust me Americas heading for a S**tstorm.

Good thing we have that enormous military budget then!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Space Commander Travis
2 hours ago, susieice said:

Why are you picking on me? I agree with Merc. Anyone who thinks they're going to appease this guy is a fool.

I know, but what can you do? He is supposedly the leader of the Free World, and when you get into that position of complete and utter unrestrained power what can anyone do to restrain megalomaniacal tendencies?

 

 

... oh wait, were you talking about North Korea's leader? :blush:

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Farmer77
Just now, Manfred von Dreidecker said:

I know, but what can you do? He is supposedly the leader of the Free World, and when you get into that position of complete and utter unrestrained power what can anyone do to restrain megalomaniacal tendencies?

 

 

... oh wait, were you talking about North Korea's leader? :blush:

:lol::clap:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Merc14
15 minutes ago, Einsteinium said:

I completely agree Merc. What Bill Clinton did was a disaster and what Obama did with Iran likely will be a disaster as well in terms of allowing them to obtain Nuclear weapons. However, that being said, what Trump has said about letting South Korea/Japan have Nukes is equally just as troubling. They are our allies now, but as you know things can change. We cannot be complacent, yet we must acknowledge that much of the rest of the world see's the US as the only country who ever used Nukes against an enemy. We make them afraid, and that fear drives them to do extreme things, like develop nukes because they think that is the only way to stop us from invading them. They see what happened to Saddam and Qaddafi and think, gee, maybe I am next unless I have a nuclear deterrent.

I agree, adding nuclear weapons to that area is not a solution but saying it may wake the Chinese up to the fact that their behavior is not peaceful.   There is a LOT of hatred for Japan because of WWII and rightfully so and I wonder how much of that hatred drives Chinese expansion into the S. China Sea?    Also, not sure how keen the Japanese people are to go nuclear, I was never stationed there nor did I ever go on  cruise in the Pacific but I know that they don't allow nukes in ships that are stationed over there, at least not when I was on active duty (maybe that a changed, not sure). 

15 minutes ago, Einsteinium said:

I have never said we should give them money and let them develop nukes, I am merely trying to look at it from their point of view as I think it is important to do that from time to time. It is important to carefully consider what the unintended consequences of our actions could be before we act. If we don't do that, then we will just wind up with another Iraq. In Iraq you can see what it looks like when we invade and force a regime change and then have no plan on the back end to sustain it. It was a disaster. We never should have been there to begin with, and once there Obama never should have pulled us out so soon. Now we have ISIS. Our actions, especially our military actions, have serious consequences and do not always result in a safer, better world, and can demonstrably be shown to have a net negative effect on world stability and safety if we fail to do our homework and make sure our use of force is the best option to pick from.

I never said you did but I can see how you'd get that impression so my mistake, I was merely using that as an example of how not to do things.

15 minutes ago, Einsteinium said:

We have had great successes, don't get me wrong, and we hesitate to call our failures failures. But we have had some pretty big failures from WW2 until now along with some amazing successes.

Yep we have, none of this stuff is easy nor is it without unseen hazards you can't plan for.  Bush II's invasion of Iraq was a prime example of how you can win the war but lose the peace.   Iraq should be a caution to every president.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
spud the mackem
22 hours ago, susieice said:

They also detained an American citizen who is a professor. He had gone to teach for a few weeks at a university.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/23/asia/american-detained-in-north-korea/index.html

Anyone who goes to N.K nowadays is risking interment especially Americans and other Western people .I cannot understand why they would risk a life sentence in an N.K jail. They must have 1 brick short of a wall.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Farmer77
Just now, spud the mackem said:

Anyone who goes to N.K nowadays is risking interment especially Americans and other Western people .I cannot understand why they would risk a life sentence in an N.K jail. They must have 1 brick short of a wall.

Anyone from the west who goes to NK is most likely a spy, missionary or humanitarian of some sort, generally with intentions to do something the regime doesnt like. They know what it is theyre doing and what theyre risking. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
spud the mackem
12 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

Anyone from the west who goes to NK is most likely a spy, missionary or humanitarian of some sort, generally with intentions to do something the regime doesnt like. They know what it is theyre doing and what theyre risking. 

Try telling Kim that you are not a spy but a person who is helping his people and he would wet himself laughing because they don't understand the word HELP.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Lilly

Well, it's not all that common. However, considering what's been happening with N Korea I'm not surprised. 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yamato
4 hours ago, F3SS said:

That's a terrible thing to say. It's an emotional attack based on ignorance or hatred. Nobody wants any of that to happen. That's a distorted lens you see people through.

Is it terrible to say it or terrible to keep doing it via allowing it to happen?    Another country sending nuke subs and armadas of warships into our waters while speaking soothing denials of what they don't want wouldn't be saying much.  

An excuse could be that we're not threatening other countries like Kim is threatening ours, but we're doing more than that when we're attacking them.   Actions >> words.  

Ignoring diplomacy and exchanging threats of annihilation with each other is one hateful and ignorant way of not wanting another war.  This is how wars begin.  Once it starts it'll be too late to prevent. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yamato
3 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

Anyone from the west who goes to NK is most likely a spy, missionary or humanitarian of some sort, generally with intentions to do something the regime doesnt like. They know what it is theyre doing and what theyre risking. 

American captives are leverage and bargaining chips in this newfangled hostile environment (aka "the era of strategic patience is over").  Kidnapping as many Americans as possible is Kim's best defense if this is how we're going to play when it provides something positive we want that he can do.   Any American going to N Korea today for even so much as a suntan would have to be crazy.  

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
susieice
8 hours ago, Manfred von Dreidecker said:

I know, but what can you do? He is supposedly the leader of the Free World, and when you get into that position of complete and utter unrestrained power what can anyone do to restrain megalomaniacal tendencies?

 

 

... oh wait, were you talking about North Korea's leader? :blush:

I know what you are saying but you have to look at some facts here. Kim's dad started testing nuclear weapons about 12 yrs ago. In the last 12 yrs, all N. Korea has done is develop and test. They mass produced armaments. They taught an entire generation warfare. So now he's threatening the entire Pacific. Trump (and I'm not necessary a huge fan on everything he does) called him out and this is the reaction. A reaction that's been waiting over a decade to happen. And the US really hasn't done anything at all but put it's Pacific fleet on maneuvers and hold talks with China. The USS Carl Vinson has been everywhere but the Korean Peninsula. It went to Australia (who got threatened) Now, it's in the Philippines, which is a US base since WWII, with Japan. That the Vinson and it's fleet are there shouldn't be surprising to anyone. We have Army and Air Force bases all throughout the Pacific. Always have. Military maneuvers with our allies have been going on for decades. We go to Europe for NATO exercises and NATO comes here. When I lived in Nevada, I saw a huge joint Air Force exercise with NATO forces out of Nellis Air Force Base.

Also...

http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/24/politics/uss-michigan-nuclear-sub-south-korea/

 I have no doubt that Kim is mentally unstable and can't be allowed to just continue doing what he's doing. This may all well be a show of force to try and dissuade him from doing something stupid, but it's best to be ready as I'm sure he spent all those years preparing for something a little more than defense for what happened 70 yrs ago. Why couldn't he make a better Korea than the one that was!

Edited by susieice
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yamato

Listening to the rhetoric lately, it's a hodgepodge of "We must, we need to, we have to, we have no choice, it's unacceptable, it can't be allowed, it can't be tolerated, there is no doubt."  

“North Korea is a big world problem, and it’s a problem we have to finally solve. People have put blindfolds on for decades, and now it’s time to solve the problem.”

Well that settles that  .....Bring out the excuses! 

First on stage, Communism!  If Communism is so bad, why is Russia so good?    Oh wait, it's April, my bad

Next up!  Mental Illness!   Those world-renowned psychiatrists at NATO, working overtime for all our global mental healthcare needs!   Coming soon to the DSM-5, a brand new chapter for that holy grail of hard psychiatric science: Political Systems, Regimes and Mental Health

Next up?  Yellow People!   Not quite Brown, but more importantly not Whites trying to take over the world and cut-in on our action, so we'll still bomb the **** out of them anyhow!

If that compilation of great excuses isn't enough to convince every real American....

Nukeyouler Weppins!   Hey, we have nukes too, but they're Yellow.  and more importantly, small enough to push around

Of course when it comes to every fight we pick anymore, it's always some foreign leader that's the voice of reason.    “China adamantly opposes any actions in contravention of the United Nations Security Council resolutions" said Xi.   When did Xi start to think that UN Security Council resolutions applied to us?

Add in some locker room jockstrap male posturing and the door to war is wide open:  "We Can't Pull Out!  We Have To Go All The Way!"   Besides, the next time Trump's poll numbers start to slump he's going to have to bomb somebody...

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MWoo7
1 hour ago, Yamato said:

Add in some locker room jockstrap male posturing and the door to war is wide open

Keep tooting your horns, I can't because, well enough said. Well two bits::At college I'd nail them to the wall verbally and got kicked out, well just for that session in the auditorium over some racist thing when we were trying to learn history.

Don't care for everything you say but certainly , some of it I do. 

A lot of touchy-feely buttercups will bump some that speak at times.

Oh I forgot YOUR CANADIAN!~ and now that's going to screw up my thinking, canad-fireworks-smiley.gif?1292867563robinsparkles.gifnothing but good times up there working and well hikes that nearly killed me and loads of skiing till one drops.

ee-gads merk's going to chime in any second now here we go teeheeeeeeheheee!

Edited by MWoo7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
bee
Just now, MWoo7 said:

 

Oh I forgot YOUR CANADIAN!~ and now that's going to screw up my thinking, canad-fireworks-smiley.gif?1292867563robinsparkles.gifnothing but good times up there working and well hikes that nearly

.

He's American not Canadian ...

aaaaanyway perhaps you and Yamato should hook up and be our UM Ambassadors to North Korea -

gooooo on - you can help save the world from nuclear destruction - pretty please - 
you  could spend days and days locked away with Kim in 24/7 negotiations - 
when you two have finished with him he won't know what day of the week it is let alone
which way to point the missiles... :P

I mean all this in an affectionate and respectful way of course --- :wub:

:tu:

.

 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Space Commander Travis

 Yes, Mwoo as Global Peace Ambassador ! 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MWoo7
18 minutes ago, bee said:

e's American not Canadian ...

aaaaanyway perhaps you and Yamato should hook up and be our UM Ambassadors to North Korea -

gooooo on - you can help save the world from nuclear destruction - pretty please - 
you  could spend days and days locked away with Kim in 24/7 negotiations - 
when you two have finished with him he won't know what day of the week it is let alone
which way to point the missiles... :P

I mean all this in an affectionate and respectful way of course --- :wub:

:tu:

My mistake indeed, no disrespect intended to Mr. Yamoto who seemed to be railed at every corner for some reason.

 

Interesting,

 

a jab and gone, nice.

 

Now where were we/ I ! okay , hmmm ponderings of the diatribes of the enlightened one,

Well now, perhaps we should, it would probably be better than you’re pitiful attempts and what shall we say the mainstream would call it because its not dialogue in that it had a trollic like smell or vibe/theme to it, oh humor , sad pitiful attempts, good show kiddo.  We commend you.

Your enlightened prose are appreciated beyond reason oh and yes this is in the most loving and cordial light of course Mr. Jack, again hats off to you touché you are the best! on earth.

 

=-=-= cont.

Oh man fred said pipping in, nice.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--==-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-=-

Trolling as in never a nice thing to say.  Ever.   Just railing on people.  As long as you can live with it no harm done.

Edited by MWoo7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Space Commander Travis
1 hour ago, MWoo7 said:

My mistake indeed, no disrespect intended to Mr. Yamoto who seemed to be railed at every corner for some reason.

 

Interesting,

 

a jab and gone, nice.

 

Now where were we/ I ! okay , hmmm ponderings of the diatribes of the enlightened one,

Well now, perhaps we should, it would probably be better than you’re pitiful attempts and what shall we say the mainstream would call it because its not dialogue in that it had a trollic like smell or vibe/theme to it, oh humor , sad pitiful attempts, good show kiddo.  We commend you.

Your enlightened prose are appreciated beyond reason oh and yes this is in the most loving and cordial light of course Mr. Jack, again hats off to you touché you are the best! on earth.

 

=-=-= cont.

Oh man fred said pipping in, nice.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--==-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-=-

Trolling as in never a nice thing to say.  Ever.   Just railing on people.  As long as you can live with it no harm done.

I think bee was being friendly to you. No one was accusing you of trolling. I think you've taken it entirely the wrong way to how it was intended.

Edited by Manfred von Dreidecker
  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MWoo7
21 minutes ago, Manfred von Dreidecker said:

I think bee was being friendly to you. No one was accusing you of trolling. I think you've taken it entirely the wrong way to how it was intended.

H*hhhuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuggs!** to the max .... god I wish more were like you

 

. . . . .  you know if there were angels

 

I can't express or elaborate, no words

 

 

. . . .  . you know . ,   and II really should know humor, actually I'm new born .... an new born and I can't see sometimes and  thanks for the clarity.

Edited by MWoo7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yamato
5 hours ago, MWoo7 said:

My mistake indeed, no disrespect intended to Mr. Yamoto who seemed to be railed at every corner for some reason.

Millions of lives are at stake.  for some reason

If I was Canadian I'd say hey look, we aren't a country full of paranoids and don't have 10 aircraft carriers, and we can survive in the world without non-stop violence.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
and then
On 4/18/2017 at 4:38 PM, Einsteinium said:

People I know who were over there in places where the US had set up schools and was working with the population said that the kids who interacted with us over there loved us, even started to emulate us in some ways

 

This is a simple, yet profound point in the discussion.  It's all about the minds of those children.  We see the damage done in the Palestinians schools and in the madrassas all over the M.E.  These children are not being taught about love and coexistence.  Anyone who still spouts that stupidity is rapidly becoming complicit to this crime, IMO.  As to a "never-ending war", other wars have gone on for decades, even centuries.  This is a conflict between civilization and darkness and the fight will take as long as it takes.  If the only other alternative is to kneel before that system, I prefer continuing to judiciously apply high explosives for however long it takes.  If they ever decide to talk, we'll pause and have a chat.  

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
and then
On 4/21/2017 at 10:32 AM, Merc14 said:

maybe you should educate yourself on how we got here before predicting Trump's failure.  BTW, Now Russia is joining in on the condemnation of Lil' Kim for threatening nuclear attack.  So, Trump is the first president to get both Russia and China to condemn a North Korean act and trigger mobilization of their armed forces on the Korean border yet your prediction is NK won't take him seriously.  How did you arrive at that conclusion?  Certainly not based on the evidence as Trump is the first president to ever get NK allies to turn against them.  

 

It's amazing what a pair of Fives can do in a hand of poker IF you're willing to push in your whole stack to back them.  Apparently, 59 pinpoint strikes by Ratheon's best science project is enough to gain the attention of formerly c***-sure despots.  Funny how that works.  EVERY TIME IT'S TRIED.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Farmer77
Just now, and then said:

This is a simple, yet profound point in the discussion.  It's all about the minds of those children.  We see the damage done in the Palestinians schools and in the madrassas all over the M.E.  These children are not being taught about love and coexistence.  Anyone who still spouts that stupidity is rapidly becoming complicit to this crime, IMO.  As to a "never-ending war", other wars have gone on for decades, even centuries.  This is a conflict between civilization and darkness and the fight will take as long as it takes.  If the only other alternative is to kneel before that system, I prefer continuing to judiciously apply high explosives for however long it takes.  If they ever decide to talk, we'll pause and have a chat.  

So you think that killing their parents, thereby confirming for them that their parents' extremist views on America were correct is somehow productive? 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
and then
15 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

So you think that killing their parents, thereby confirming for them that their parents' extremist views on America were correct is somehow productive? 

You can be really tiresome, man.  MY mission (speaking rhetorically of the US) is to stop a threat against citizens here that have done nothing to those children OR their parents.  You have bought in totally to the idea that America is the root cause of all evil in the world or at least, we're guilty ENOUGH that we don't even have a right to self -defense.  I reject that claim and anyone that makes it seems foolish to me.  If the parents hate and raise children to hate, then both are likely to experience unpleasant outcomes.  Here's an exercise for ya, how about they leave us the frig alone?  I know little of you but I assume that if somebody started shoving you around in a public place, you'd stand up for yourself to make them stop - or do I mistake your resolve?  I get sick of hearing citizens in this country finding fault, ALWAYS, with America first.  Obama is a weepy little, conniving b****, that went around the world apologizing for my country.  I hope he chokes on his legacy for that alone.  Tell me, farmer, when these disaffected "children" begin blowing up buses or church services or shopping malls, will you be as protective of their motivations?  'cause I gotta tell ya, that ain't going down too well in this country.  You and others here can think of me as a redneck if you like, couldn't possibly care less, but redneck or no, in this part of flyover country we LOVE our nation.  Faults and all.  And a man that speaks out for an enemy that is killing Americans, IN America, isn't going to like the responses he'll receive.  Maybe it's different in your little part of heaven.  I'd bet that's not nearly as true as you expect, though.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.