Is North Korea really a problem?

[The Silver Thong]

4 minutes ago, Bama13 said:

How long does it take to surrender? Truman warned them before the first bomb was dropped and called on them to surrender after the first bombing. A simple "we quit" would have sufficed. Shouldn't have taken three days.

Love your joke.  Have to remember to tell it on my religious friends.

It would take me 3.1 seconds to surrender, the Japanes are a bit different but they did.  Imo it did not take 2. we can all agree wmd`s are a bad thing. NK is a pebble in your shoe.

Glad you liked my Joke, but I can not take credit for it, I stole it.

[Space Commander Travis]

34 minutes ago, Bama13 said:

How long does it take to surrender? Truman warned them before the first bomb was dropped and called on them to surrender after the first bombing. A simple "we quit" would have sufficed. Shouldn't have taken three days.

Love your joke.  Have to remember to tell it on my religious friends.

What, simple as that? You don't think in a society where honour is such an important thing, it would have been just slightly a bigger decision than "ok, we quit", and besides, that is what they'd been trying to do, they had been making overtures immediately after Hiroshima, but Truman was determined that there had to be a second Bang to make his point to Stalin.

[Bama13]

2 minutes ago, Manfred von Dreidecker said:

What, simple as that? You don't think in a society where honour is such an important thing, it would have been just slightly a bigger decision than "ok, we quit", and besides, that is what they'd been trying to do, they had been making overtures immediately after Hiroshima, but Truman was determined that there had to be a second Bang to make his point to Stalin.

This post, and my others responding to The Silver Thong, were about Thong's claim that Japan would have surrendered if we had dropped the first A-bomb off shore. Since they didn't surrendered after the A-bomb was used on Hiroshima I can't imagine they would have if the US had dropped it off shore.

Again after the second bomb was dropped elements of the military tired a coup to keep the Emperor from surrendering.

Of course we never would have had to use the A-bombs if Japan hadn't attacked the US in the first place. A nation can choose when and how it starts a war. They can't always choose when and how it ends.

[Merc14]

2 hours ago, The Silver Thong said:

So you like to make a guess.  I can safley say If I saw a nuke going off I would raise the white flag in a heart beat back then.

Who cares what you would do?   What you would do  has NOTHING to to do with WWII Japan and what actually happened which is that after dropping the first bomb on Hiroshima, Japan refused to surrender and in fact continued to attack American forces.   As astounding as that may seem it is what happened and it caused the dropping of a second bomb which the Japanese military ignored and continued the war.  It took the intervention of the Emperor to end the war and he hesitated to do that even after Nagasaki. 

Now I asked you a question, which is the more moral decision, killing 200,000 Japanese by atomic bomb or killing upwards of 10,000,000 Japanese and at least 1,000,000 American military by invading the Japanese home islands?  That estimate is, even today, considered to be a conservative one.

2 hours ago, The Silver Thong said:

I have leanings to both the left and right. Some views disgust me and some don`t. I don`t lable people on there opinions but there actions. The knee jerk reaction to North Korea imo is premature. They have been doing it for many years and yet nothing. If they were the big problem then why no solution, oh wait, no oil.

Yes, we should definitely wait until they can strike the continental US with an atomic bomb because kicking the can down the road always works, except when it doesn't.

2 hours ago, The Silver Thong said:

I can have an opinion and you try to insult me, the exact same tacticts antifa uses. That`s why I said it.

You insulted America and I called you on it and when faced with the facts refused to answer my questions.  BTW, antifa would simply beat you senseless, not argue about your wrong conclusions with facts, so you didn't get that right either. 

2 hours ago, The Silver Thong said:

Just make thinks a little more clear Im more right than left. I can`t stand my Priminister.

 

[Yamato]

4 hours ago, Bama13 said:

And yet even after the second bomb was dropped some in the Japanese military tried to stage a coup to prevent the surrender. Revisionist claim they were close to surrendering, but very few at the time thought they were. 

There were elements within the government that didn't want to attack the US in the first place. Those elements had very little say so. The military pretty much ran the countries foreign policy. 

The Japanese military was a ghost by that point.  It couldn't even stage a coup. 

"Revisionist" well yeah, the propaganda got revised by real historians.  Gawd, read some books on the subject already...

[Yamato]

1 hour ago, Bama13 said:

This post, and my others responding to The Silver Thong, were about Thong's claim that Japan would have surrendered if we had dropped the first A-bomb off shore. Since they didn't surrendered after the A-bomb was used on Hiroshima I can't imagine they would have if the US had dropped it off shore.

Again after the second bomb was dropped elements of the military tired a coup to keep the Emperor from surrendering.

Of course we never would have had to use the A-bombs if Japan hadn't attacked the US in the first place. A nation can choose when and how it starts a war. They can't always choose when and how it ends.

Do you have any clue how many of their cities were completely destroyed before the atomic bombs?   How in sam hell could you believe that doesn't provide the same motive to surrender the atomic bombs did?   As if, oh if we destroyed the two virgin targets with incendiaries to raze those cities to the ****ing ground, ya think Japan would have hung in there indefinitely?  

So apparently in your revisionist view of history it's ONLY the unique and exclusive psychological fear of the atomic bombs then, not the utter devastation of Japan's entire industrial base, military, and largest population centers, or Stalin's invasion of its Asian territory....yeeah mmkay. 

Here's some light reading to get you started on your learning curve...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firestorm#Nuclear_weapons_in_comparison_to_conventional_weapons

 

[DarkHunter]

46 minutes ago, Yamato said:

The Japanese military was a ghost by that point.  It couldn't even stage a coup. 

"Revisionist" well yeah, the propaganda got revised by real historians.  Gawd, read some books on the subject already...

I had a reply to your response to my post last night but it got deleted before I could post it, but since you keep harping on the same historical revisions and utter delusions I can just retype it.

The Japanese at that point had 65 divisions in the Japanese islands, 10,000 planes ready for kamikaze attacks, 28 million citizens trained for combat, 4 battle ships, 5 aircraft carriers, 2 cruisers, 23 destroyers, 46 submarines, 400 midget submarines, 120 manned torpedoes, and over 2,400 suicide boats.  Despite how much you try to pretend it isn't the case they also had the fuel to use the 10,000 planes as kamikaze attacks and to use the smaller ships close to shore.  The larger ships, the battleships, aircraft carriers, and cruisers, were mostly damaged so they planned on keeping them in harbor or beaching them and using them as weapon platforms.  Before you try to claim those numbers came from allied estimates or are some form of propaganda, those figures came from the Japanese themselves and their defense plans of the home islands.

I get you live in a delusional world and cherry pick facts that support your delusion and discard any facts that go against your world view but given the revived Bushido culture in Japan at that time and past actions of the Japanese military in defending islands it is safe to assume if ordered by the emperor the vast majority would of fought to the death.

As for the psychological impact the nuclear bombs definitely had a psychological impact that the fire bombing didn't.  Even the emperor said in his writing that with the use of atomic bombs it showed that the entirety of Japan could be destroyed.  The fact that the emperor specifically mentions the atomic bombs, especially in relation to total destruction of Japan shows the psychological impact they had.  Since such records go against your world view I'm sure you'll find some reason to discard it.

Lastly the Japanese military did attempt a coup even though you seem to believe it was impossible.  Before you go off on some tirade about how they wouldn't try to kill the emperor, of course they didn't try to kill the emperor.  What the people involved in the coup attempted was to stop the surrender process, silence the pro surrender members of the big six, and spirit the emperor away to a remote location under the pretense of protecting him while also having the added benefit of removing his ability to directly control Japan leaving control effectively in the hands of the pro war members of the big six.

Instead of telling others to read you might actually want to do some yourself, but given how you tend to reject facts that threaten your world view I doubt it would do much good.

[F3SS]

12 hours ago, Yamato said:

My ex was an international relations girl and turned me onto Kim Jong looking at things years ago.   There must be pages upon pages of this by now.

http://kimjongunlookingatthings.tumblr.com/

 

If you just have to dick around with it then yeah, it's carrots and sticks, what else?

I wouldn't be providing any grist for the propaganda mill to churn out in the first place, because why, frankly?

Because the age of strategic patience is over?  Am I supposed to be impressed?

 

That's a ridiculous site. I couldn't reach the end there are so many. I noticed his entourage carries tiny little note pads everywhere he goes.

[The Silver Thong]

1

Edited May 3, 2017 by The Silver Thong

[The Silver Thong]

2 hours ago, Merc14 said:

Who cares what you would do?   What you would do  has NOTHING to to do with WWII Japan and what actually happened which is that after dropping the first bomb on Hiroshima, Japan refused to surrender and in fact continued to attack American forces.   As astounding as that may seem it is what happened and it caused the dropping of a second bomb which the Japanese military ignored and continued the war.  It took the intervention of the Emperor to end the war and he hesitated to do that even after Nagasaki. 

Now I asked you a question, which is the more moral decision, killing 200,000 Japanese by atomic bomb or killing upwards of 10,000,000 Japanese and at least 1,000,000 American military by invading the Japanese home islands?  That estimate is, even today, considered to be a conservative one.

Yes, we should definitely wait until they can strike the continental US with an atomic bomb because kicking the can down the road always works, except when it doesn't.

You insulted America and I called you on it and when faced with the facts refused to answer my questions.  BTW, antifa would simply beat you senseless, not argue about your wrong conclusions with facts, so you didn't get that right either. 

 

You do understand I live in America as well right. Your nation happens to be called the United States. If I offended you personaly I don`t give a rats behind Mr.Snowflake.

Edited May 3, 2017 by The Silver Thong

[The Silver Thong]

29 minutes ago, F3SS said:

That's a ridiculous site. I couldn't reach the end there are so many. I noticed his entourage carries tiny little note pads everywhere he goes.

Probably better then 15 blackberries and a hidden server in the basement wink wink.

[Golden Duck]

35 minutes ago, F3SS said:

That's a ridiculous site. I couldn't reach the end there are so many. I noticed his entourage carries tiny little note pads everywhere he goes.

Yeah... looks every show on the Discovery Channel 

[The Silver Thong]

4 hours ago, Bama13 said:

This post, and my others responding to The Silver Thong, were about Thong's claim that Japan would have surrendered if we had dropped the first A-bomb off shore. Since they didn't surrendered after the A-bomb was used on Hiroshima I can't imagine they would have if the US had dropped it off shore.

Again after the second bomb was dropped elements of the military tired a coup to keep the Emperor from surrendering.

Of course we never would have had to use the A-bombs if Japan hadn't attacked the US in the first place. A nation can choose when and how it starts a war. They can't always choose when and how it ends.

 I have to ask, do we approve of WMD`S or condem them. This might be a trick question. If NK truely possed a threat of using a nuke it would have been delt with by now. NK is a mouse in a locked room with a hundred traps. They will do nothing but pretend. Kinda like the WWE.

 

 

[Yamato]

2 hours ago, DarkHunter said:

I had a reply to your response to my post last night but it got deleted before I could post it, but since you keep harping on the same historical revisions and utter delusions I can just retype it.

The Japanese at that point had 65 divisions in the Japanese islands, 10,000 planes ready for kamikaze attacks, 28 million citizens trained for combat, 4 battle ships, 5 aircraft carriers, 2 cruisers, 23 destroyers, 46 submarines, 400 midget submarines, 120 manned torpedoes, and over 2,400 suicide boats.  Despite how much you try to pretend it isn't the case they also had the fuel to use the 10,000 planes as kamikaze attacks and to use the smaller ships close to shore.  The larger ships, the battleships, aircraft carriers, and cruisers, were mostly damaged so they planned on keeping them in harbor or beaching them and using them as weapon platforms.  Before you try to claim those numbers came from allied estimates or are some form of propaganda, those figures came from the Japanese themselves and their defense plans of the home islands.

I get you live in a delusional world and cherry pick facts that support your delusion and discard any facts that go against your world view but given the revived Bushido culture in Japan at that time and past actions of the Japanese military in defending islands it is safe to assume if ordered by the emperor the vast majority would of fought to the death.

As for the psychological impact the nuclear bombs definitely had a psychological impact that the fire bombing didn't.  Even the emperor said in his writing that with the use of atomic bombs it showed that the entirety of Japan could be destroyed.  The fact that the emperor specifically mentions the atomic bombs, especially in relation to total destruction of Japan shows the psychological impact they had.  Since such records go against your world view I'm sure you'll find some reason to discard it.

Lastly the Japanese military did attempt a coup even though you seem to believe it was impossible.  Before you go off on some tirade about how they wouldn't try to kill the emperor, of course they didn't try to kill the emperor.  What the people involved in the coup attempted was to stop the surrender process, silence the pro surrender members of the big six, and spirit the emperor away to a remote location under the pretense of protecting him while also having the added benefit of removing his ability to directly control Japan leaving control effectively in the hands of the pro war members of the big six.

Instead of telling others to read you might actually want to do some yourself, but given how you tend to reject facts that threaten your world view I doubt it would do much good

Oh really?   Name those four battleships and five aircraft carriers, why don't ya?    I'll start you out with the first battleship:  IJN Nagato.

All you've got left at the end of your long imagination to make the difference in your opinion is the psychological impact of the atomic bomb that you weigh to the exclusion of actual damage done and to be done.   Sorry but I will have to conclude you're someone with very little knowledge about WW2 Japan based on the content of these replies you're writing.

The only reason Japan hadn't surrendered already was this political obstinacy from the Roosevelt and Truman admin of "Unconditional Surrender" which was as BS as it was obstinate, as we obviously know from history that there were conditions to the surrender.  

[The Silver Thong]

18 hours ago, and then said:

It didn't?  About 80,000 people die and they still refuse surrender and, what?  Continue fighting for years?  Invade against a massive force of civilians with sharpened sticks?  Japan started a war of aggression aginst the US and their neighbors.  They lost.  What's the old saying -Tom Clancy — 'If you want to kick the tiger in his ass you'd better have a plan for dealing with his teeth'

Poke a bear with a stick and you become lunch. Quoet, from me.  Japan had lost and they knew that. Pride can hurt. They had no food or fuel. Park a few ships around it and guess what. I know that sounds simple but do you not impose sanctions on nations to this day to make them submit.  I would have to look it up but I can only imagine how many have died due to sanctions.  If we didn`t have sanctions on certian nations we might not have this immigration problem.  Lets see how it pans out. Germany is a waste land so is france lets not forget about Sweden. Making war only benifits a very few. If you want I could post video after video.  NK is a scape goat. They are a lion with no teeth. China wants nothing to do with them so go in and bomb the nuke sites, Russia wont stop you. However you can keep funding ISIS and see how that works. Oh wait we know how the U.S. funded ISIS and created it. Arguee with me on that and I will show you.

[The Silver Thong]

NK is but a tick

[DarkHunter]

6 minutes ago, Yamato said:

Oh really?   Name those four battleships and five aircraft carriers, why don't ya?    I'll start you out with the first battleship:  IJN Nagato.

All you've got left at the end of your long imagination to make the difference in your opinion is the psychological impact of the atomic bomb that you weigh to the exclusion of actual damage done and to be done.   Sorry but I will have to conclude you're someone with very little knowledge about WW2 Japan based on the content of these replies you're writing.

The only reason Japan hadn't surrendered already was this political obstinacy from the Roosevelt and Truman admin of "Unconditional Surrender" which was as BS as it was obstinate, as we obviously know from history that there were conditions to the surrender.  

For battleships there was the Nagato, Ise, Hyuga, and Haruna.  As for aircraft carriers there was the Katsuragi, Hosho, Jun'yo, Ryuho, and Kaiyo.  Of those nine ships some of them were sunk in shallow water but were still in use as weapon platforms and weren't struck from the Japanese naval lists till after the war ended.

I noticed you completely refused to discuss the amount of military forces in Japan at the time of the atomic bombing, with the exception of the naval forces.  I suppose since it doesn't fit into your distorted historical view of Japan immediately before the atomic bombings you rather completely ignore the facts to preserve your delusions.  As for why you brought up naming the battleships and aircraft carriers, my guess is that you thought you had me in some inaccuracy and probably did a quick Google search and saw an article saying how the Nagato was the last battleship Japan had.

You keep downplaying the psychological impact of the atomic bombings to the point of irrelevance while continuing to ignore what emperor Hirohito said.  From Hirohito's surrender speech.

"Moreover, the enemy has begun to employ a new and most cruel bomb, the power of which to do damage is, indeed, incalculable, taking the toll of many innocent lives.   Should we continue to fight, it would not only result in an ultimate collapse and obliteration of the Japanese nation, but also it would lead to the total extinction of human civilization."

Seems pretty clear the atomic bombings had a rather large psychological impact of Hirohito but I assume you will ignore what he actually wrote in favor of continuing your childish delusions.

Yet you still ignore the complete list of conditions Japan had for surrendering and focus all your energy on the one condition America found acceptable.  While it's true Japan didn't expect to win the war by the time of the atomic bombings or to even get all of their conditions they were still expecting to make the campaign to capture the Japanese home islands so bloody that they could get more then just keeping the emperor.  Just because you refuse to accept that Japan was still holding onto unacceptable conditions before the atomic bombings because it doesn't fit into your extremely simplistic world view doesn't mean it isn't true.

After being embarrassed about sarin in Syria do you really want to try again about world war 2 history.  I have no problem proving you wrong and embarrassing you again but it does get rather boring since you generally only have at best a childish understanding of most subjects.  Also still waiting for your chemistry experience.

[Yamato]

1 hour ago, DarkHunter said:

For battleships there was the Nagato, Ise, Hyuga, and Haruna.  As for aircraft carriers there was the Katsuragi, Hosho, Jun'yo, Ryuho, and Kaiyo.  Of those nine ships some of them were sunk in shallow water but were still in use as weapon platforms and weren't struck from the Japanese naval lists till after the war ended.

I noticed you completely refused to discuss the amount of military forces in Japan at the time of the atomic bombing, with the exception of the naval forces.  I suppose since it doesn't fit into your distorted historical view of Japan immediately before the atomic bombings you rather completely ignore the facts to preserve your delusions.  As for why you brought up naming the battleships and aircraft carriers, my guess is that you thought you had me in some inaccuracy and probably did a quick Google search and saw an article saying how the Nagato was the last battleship Japan had.

You keep downplaying the psychological impact of the atomic bombings to the point of irrelevance while continuing to ignore what emperor Hirohito said.  From Hirohito's surrender speech.

"Moreover, the enemy has begun to employ a new and most cruel bomb, the power of which to do damage is, indeed, incalculable, taking the toll of many innocent lives.   Should we continue to fight, it would not only result in an ultimate collapse and obliteration of the Japanese nation, but also it would lead to the total extinction of human civilization."

Seems pretty clear the atomic bombings had a rather large psychological impact of Hirohito but I assume you will ignore what he actually wrote in favor of continuing your childish delusions.

Yet you still ignore the complete list of conditions Japan had for surrendering and focus all your energy on the one condition America found acceptable.  While it's true Japan didn't expect to win the war by the time of the atomic bombings or to even get all of their conditions they were still expecting to make the campaign to capture the Japanese home islands so bloody that they could get more then just keeping the emperor.  Just because you refuse to accept that Japan was still holding onto unacceptable conditions before the atomic bombings because it doesn't fit into your extremely simplistic world view doesn't mean it isn't true.

After being embarrassed about sarin in Syria do you really want to try again about world war 2 history.  I have no problem proving you wrong and embarrassing you again but it does get rather boring since you generally only have at best a childish understanding of most subjects.  Also still waiting for your chemistry experience.

You just embarrassed yourself.

Inoperable or sunk in their moorings, ergo not struck from the Japanese naval lists.    Japan's navy was destroyed.  "Weapons platforms".  LOL with that kind of BS you'd have to sink the entire country, it was a "weapons platform."  

Nagato was the last battleship.  Your "childish delusion" about sunken ships still being operational just sunk your credibility along with them.  I now have to think you believe the sunken battleships were manned and ready for combat!  

I didn't disagree the atomic bombs had a "rather large psychological impact" but I'm not buying your revisionist nonsense that it was the only impact that counted.

I don't refuse to accept the propaganda of the Japanese government I just understand it for what it is.   You're quoting a speech from Hirohito to help you understand your history better and he referenced the atomic bomb so you think your fantasy holds water?  What conditions were unacceptable is a bureaucratic decision and we are at an irreconcilable political division here obviously.  You want so badly to believe in your own mind that the atomic bombings were necessary you'll spew as much BS as it takes to ram your religion down someone else's throat.   Of course you have to rely on Japanese propaganda for a source.   If you were logically consistent, you'd be relying on North Korea's on this thread.   Tell us the truth then about North Korea based on what the North Korean government says, I can't wait to hear it.  

Why don't you tell me what Kim said next and see if I'm gullible enough to believe it.   You're still peddling that rot nonsense about Assad's Sarin bombs in Syria?   When you ran away and never came back when I asked for your source?   I thought we were done with that.  I posted three sources from Israel that all came out simultaneously days later.   If you have something to add to that discussion, do it on the other thread.  

"Four battleships" LOL   How addled are you?   Dark "10,000 aircraft!" Hunter!   Put down the crack pipe and step away from the baby carriage.

 

Edited May 4, 2017 by Yamato

[Yamato]

"Chemistry experience?"  LOL what the hell is that?   Do you have "chemistry experience"?     You want to have a ball scratching contest with me about chemistry now?   Get a life Darkhunter seriously.   Go live a life in the real world, stop stroking yourself on an anonymous message board trying to recover your irreparably damaged credibility.

[Yamato]

http://www.ww2pacific.com/japcv.html

Japanese Aircraft Carriers

Name	Type(a/c)	Tons	Commis	Sunk	By	Where	Comments
Hosho	CVL (21)	7,500	27Dec22	-	-	Kure	Training ship
Akagi	CV  (63)	36,000	25May27	04June42	CV	Midway
Kaga	CV  (72)	36,800	21Mar28	04June42	CV	Midway
Ryujo	CVL (46)	10,500	9May33	24Aug42	CV	EastSolomons
Soryu	CV  (63)	17,500	29Sep37	04June42	CV	Midway
Hiryu	CV  (63)	17,500	5July39	05June42	CV	Midway
Zuiho	CVL (24)	11,200	27Dec40	25Oct44	CV	CapeEngano
Shokaku	CV  (72)	27,000	08Aug41	19June44	SS-244	Marianas
Taiyo	CVE (27)	16,700	15Sep41	18Dec44	SS-269	off Luzon
Zuikaku	CV  (72)	27,000	25Sep41	25Oct44	CV	CapeEngano
Shoho	CVL (30)	11,200	26Jan42	07May42	CV	Coral Sea
Junyo	CV  (45)	24,100	05May42	09Dec44	SS	off Sasebo
Unyo	CVE (27)	16,700	31May42	16Sep44	SS-220	S.ChinaSea
Hiyo	CV  (45)	24,100	31July42	20June44	CV	Marianas
Chuyo	CVE (27)	16,700	25Nov42	04Dec43	SS-192	off Honshu
Ryuho	CVL (31)	13,400	28Nov42	-	-	Kure
Hyuga	BBV (22)	convert	01Oct43	24July45	CV	Kure
Ise	BBV (22)	convert	08Oct43	28July45	CV	Kure
Chiyoda	CVL (24)	11,200	31Oct43	25Oct44	CV	CapeEngano
Kaiyo	CVE (24)	15,400	23Nov43	24July45	CV	Beppu Bay
Shinyo	CVE (27)	17,500	15Dec43	17Nov44	SS-411	S.YellowSea
Chitose	CVL (24)	11,200	01Jan44	25Oct44	CV	CapeEngano
Taiho	CV  (62)	29,300	07Mar44	19June44	SS-218	Marianas
Unryu	CVL (57)	17,300	06Aug44	19Dec44	SS-395	EastChinaSea
Amagi	CVL (57)	17,100	10Aug44	28June45	air	Kure
Shinano	CVB (70)	62,000	19Nov44	29Nov44	SS-311	Inland Sea	world largest
Katsuragi	CV	17,300	15Oct44	Not service
Kasagi	CVL	17,300	incomplete	85%
Ibuki	CVL	14,500	incomplete	80%
Aso	CV		incomplete	60%
Ikoma	CV		incomplete	60%

[DarkHunter]

14 minutes ago, Yamato said:

You just embarrassed yourself.

Inoperable or sunk in their moorings, ergo not struck from the Japanese naval lists.    Japan's navy was destroyed.  "Weapons platforms".  LOL with that kind of BS you'd have to sink the entire country, it was a "weapons platform."  

Nagato was the last battleship.  Your "childish delusional" BS about sunken ships in shallow water just sunk your BS claims otherwise along with them.

I didn't disagree the atomic bombs had a "rather large psychological impact" but I'm not buying your revisionist nonsense that it was the only impact that counted.

I don't refuse to accept the propaganda of the Japanese government I just understand it for what it is.   You're quoting a speech from Hirohito to help you understand your history better and he referenced the atomic bomb so you think your fantasy holds water?  What conditions were unacceptable is a bureaucratic decision and we are at an irreconcilable political division here obviously.  You want so badly to believe in your own mind that the atomic bombings were necessary you'll spray as much BS as it takes to ram it down someone else's throat.

If you're still peddling your rot nonsense about Assad's Sarin in Syria?   When you ran away and never came back when I asked for your source?   I thought we were done with that.  If you have something to say to me about that, do it on the other thread. 

I said some of those nine ships were sunk in shallow water, specifically the battleships Ise and Haruna were sunk in shallow water in their harbor.  The battleship Hyuga was purposefully ran aground.  The aircraft carriers Ryuho and Kaiyo were the only two sunk in shallow water with the Kaiyo I believe being sunk in shallow water August 9, 1945.

As for weapon platform, most people would consider a heavily armored ship, with functional cannons and anti aircraft weapons, that is still being manned as a threat even if it has been grounded or sank in shallow water, especially if this is in a harbor and able to actively defend the harbor.

While the Japanese fleet was severely damaged it still had 400 midget submarines, over 40 regular submarines, I believe 23 destroyers, and 2 cruisers.  You still completely ignore the 10,000 kamikaze planes and 65 divisions being backed up by a 28 million man civilian fighting force.

I never said it was the only impact that mattered but unlike you I accept that it was finally what pushed Japan to acceptable surrender terms instead of believing it serves no real purpose like you believe.

So you think some or all conditions such as no foreign occupation of Japan, no foreign over sight of disarmament, Japan handling the prosecution of Japanese war criminals, Japan being allowed to hold land it conquered in mainland Asia, and Japan returning colonial holdings on the condition they are granted independence by the European countries as acceptable.

Also I never ran from the thread but I do tend to get busy with life and have to take breaks from UM at times.  Given that the thread had moved on and your tirades were pathetic and uninformed at best I considered it best to leave them but I am more then willing to go back to them in the appropriate thread to continue to show how little you actually comprehend.

Lastly if anyone needs to repair credibility it would be you after your never ending uninformed post in just about every thread you post in.  While I'm not always correct I atleast do actual research and attempt to post informational post instead of constant rants and tirades.

[Merc14]

5 hours ago, The Silver Thong said:

You do understand I live in America as well right. Your nation happens to be called the United States. If I offended you personaly I don`t give a rats behind Mr.Snowflake.

No, I don't understand that you live in America as well, how the hell would I know that?   And who cares anyways, Yammie lives in America and hates everything about the country that protects his drug addled ****.  

Why can't you answer my question Thong?  Are you another yamato who lies, cowers and runs away from his errors like a child or just embarrassed that faced with the facts you may have misjudged this no-win, dire decision?  Now you can go full yamato and create a fantasy world and run down a rabbit hole or be an adult and admit that maybe you should have dug deeper and realized that nothing offered to Truman in 1945 was a good or decent decision and all that was left was the least of the worst.   

People like yamato are children who can't face reality, they make it up as they go along but adults consider the history and realize that while the bomb was a horror, the alternative was much worse.   WWII was mankind's worst act by a long distance but America didn't start it.

[DarkHunter]

1 hour ago, Yamato said:

http://www.ww2pacific.com/japcv.html

Japanese Aircraft Carriers

Name	Type(a/c)	Tons	Commis	Sunk	By	Where	Comments
Hosho	CVL (21)	7,500	27Dec22	-	-	Kure	Training ship
Akagi	CV  (63)	36,000	25May27	04June42	CV	Midway
Kaga	CV  (72)	36,800	21Mar28	04June42	CV	Midway
Ryujo	CVL (46)	10,500	9May33	24Aug42	CV	EastSolomons
Soryu	CV  (63)	17,500	29Sep37	04June42	CV	Midway
Hiryu	CV  (63)	17,500	5July39	05June42	CV	Midway
Zuiho	CVL (24)	11,200	27Dec40	25Oct44	CV	CapeEngano
Shokaku	CV  (72)	27,000	08Aug41	19June44	SS-244	Marianas
Taiyo	CVE (27)	16,700	15Sep41	18Dec44	SS-269	off Luzon
Zuikaku	CV  (72)	27,000	25Sep41	25Oct44	CV	CapeEngano
Shoho	CVL (30)	11,200	26Jan42	07May42	CV	Coral Sea
Junyo	CV  (45)	24,100	05May42	09Dec44	SS	off Sasebo
Unyo	CVE (27)	16,700	31May42	16Sep44	SS-220	S.ChinaSea
Hiyo	CV  (45)	24,100	31July42	20June44	CV	Marianas
Chuyo	CVE (27)	16,700	25Nov42	04Dec43	SS-192	off Honshu
Ryuho	CVL (31)	13,400	28Nov42	-	-	Kure
Hyuga	BBV (22)	convert	01Oct43	24July45	CV	Kure
Ise	BBV (22)	convert	08Oct43	28July45	CV	Kure
Chiyoda	CVL (24)	11,200	31Oct43	25Oct44	CV	CapeEngano
Kaiyo	CVE (24)	15,400	23Nov43	24July45	CV	Beppu Bay
Shinyo	CVE (27)	17,500	15Dec43	17Nov44	SS-411	S.YellowSea
Chitose	CVL (24)	11,200	01Jan44	25Oct44	CV	CapeEngano
Taiho	CV  (62)	29,300	07Mar44	19June44	SS-218	Marianas
Unryu	CVL (57)	17,300	06Aug44	19Dec44	SS-395	EastChinaSea
Amagi	CVL (57)	17,100	10Aug44	28June45	air	Kure
Shinano	CVB (70)	62,000	19Nov44	29Nov44	SS-311	Inland Sea	world largest
Katsuragi	CV	17,300	15Oct44	Not service
Kasagi	CVL	17,300	incomplete	85%
Ibuki	CVL	14,500	incomplete	80%
Aso	CV		incomplete	60%
Ikoma	CV		incomplete	60%

Did you even read that site completely, let alone doing any research before posting, cause it seems like one again you rushed to make a post which you thought proves your point but doesn't.

First I suppose it would be best to start off with the obvious.  The list shows that two of the five carriers I mentioned, the Hosho and Ryuho, had nothing done to them.  But that still leaves three of the five carriers and showing what best can be described as intellectual dishonesty it's very convenient how when you copied and pasted that table from the site how the color coding used on the original site doesn't transfer over and you make absolutely no mention of it what so ever.  You fail to mention how text in red font are ships that have been sunk while ships that have only been damaged are in a blue font.  Of the ships that were damaged and not sunk there is the carrier Junyo and interestingly the battleship Ise.  

If you would of done actual research, which it seems to be you are completely incapable of for whatever reason, some things should of struck you on that site like how it is clearly a homemade site with no sourcing what so ever and that is has quite a few inaccuracies.  The first inaccuracy that is important to point out is that the list has a total of 31 ships, 2 battleships and 29 carriers, while Japan had 30 carriers that it used throughout the second world war.  Of the two battleships it does list the Japanese did attempt to convert them into aircraft carriers after the battle of midway but that plan for a total conversion was scrapped and instead they attempted to make a half carrier half battleship hybrid of which the conversion was undone about a year later for the Ise but I believe ,but not completely sure, the Hyuga remained a hybrid ship but carried so few planes it functioned as a battleship.  The carrier the creator of the list forgot to add was the carrier Kaiyo which was the carrier that was abandoned on August 10, 1945 after severe listing form damage sustained the previous day which is also the day after the second atomic bomb was dropped.  While fine for that site for this thread having the Katsuragi listed as not service is misleading.  The issue is that while the Katsuragi did not fight in any battles it was still a functional ship that was stationed in Kure harbor at the end of the war.

Basically you attempted to use what is at best a site with questionable accuracy, of which there is more flaws then what I mentioned, but has three of the carriers I mentioned, two if you want to put the Katsuragi in a seperate category all of its own, being unharmed, one being damaged along with one battleship being damaged that I had listed, and completely missing a carrier.  Not exactly the strongest evidence for your case.

[The Silver Thong]

2 hours ago, Merc14 said:

No, I don't understand that you live in America as well, how the hell would I know that?   And who cares anyways, Yammie lives in America and hates everything about the country that protects his drug addled ****.  

Why can't you answer my question Thong?  Are you another yamato who lies, cowers and runs away from his errors like a child or just embarrassed that faced with the facts you may have misjudged this no-win, dire decision?  Now you can go full yamato and create a fantasy world and run down a rabbit hole or be an adult and admit that maybe you should have dug deeper and realized that nothing offered to Truman in 1945 was a good or decent decision and all that was left was the least of the worst.   

People like yamato are children who can't face reality, they make it up as they go along but adults consider the history and realize that while the bomb was a horror, the alternative was much worse.   WWII was mankind's worst act by a long distance but America didn't start it.

No, I don't understand that you live in America as well, how the hell would I know that?   And who cares anyways, Yammie lives in America and hates everything about the country that protects his drug addled ****.

SAID BY mERC, AND LOOK TO YOUR LEFT, NO YOUR OTHER LEFT.

For the slow of reading Canada in my very province of Alberta located in North America. Funny how some yanks like Merci don`t get it. According to Merc North America is just the U.S. 

 

 WOW and you don`t get it that the U.S. is the only nation that has ever used nukes on civilians....

 

 Is Canada not part of North America, get a grip man

Edited May 4, 2017 by The Silver Thong

[The Silver Thong]

1 hour ago, Merc14 said:

No, I don't understand that you live in America as well, how the hell would I know that?   And who cares anyways, Yammie lives in America and hates everything about the country that protects his drug addled ****.  

Why can't you answer my question Thong?  Are you another yamato who lies, cowers and runs away from his errors like a child or just embarrassed that faced with the facts you may have misjudged this no-win, dire decision?  Now you can go full yamato and create a fantasy world and run down a rabbit hole or be an adult and admit that maybe you should have dug deeper and realized that nothing offered to Truman in 1945 was a good or decent decision and all that was left was the least of the worst.   

People like yamato are children who can't face reality, they make it up as they go along but adults consider the history and realize that while the bomb was a horror, the alternative was much worse.   WWII was mankind's worst act by a long distance but America didn't start it.

We know the total of kills according to you and we know you support WMD`s the satire you post has to be laughed at.