Theresa May calls General Election for June 8

[Torchwood]

6 minutes ago, Essan said:

Since neither Corbyn nor May are standing for election in my constittuency, what they say, think or do doesn't really concern me.  I can't vote for either of them   Not in a Parliamentary Election.

Shhhh!  This is UM: not the place for actual facts you know!

[Space Commander Travis]

53 minutes ago, Essan said:

Since neither Corbyn nor May are standing for election in my constittuency, what they say, think or do doesn't really concern me.  I can't vote for either of them   Not in a Parliamentary Election.

  Who has ever made their decision how to vote in a general election on what their local candidate promises. It's all about what party is going to be in power, that's the only point of it. It would be an utter waste of everybody's time if all it was about was which carefully programmed nonentity gets to sit in the seat labelled with the name of your particular constituency. 

Edited May 17, 2017 by Manfred von Dreidecker

[Essan]

2 hours ago, Manfred von Dreidecker said:

  Who has ever made their decision how to vote in a general election on what their local candidate promises. It's all about what party is going to be in power, that's the only point of it. It would be an utter waste of everybody's time if all it was about was which carefully programmed nonentity gets to sit in the seat labelled with the name of your particular constituency. 

Thats what happens.  And why I refuse to vote.   Its not what should happen

The Queen may ask any elected member of parliament to be her Prime Minister (it doesnt have to be the leader of the biggest gang of silly bickering schoolgirls) and the PM may appoint any member of parliament to their Cabinet (it doesnt have to be members of their own petty little gang)

And in any case, for a democratic parliament to be efficient, we need a good opposition.

Therefore we should elect the best possible candidates to parliament      And if we dont, and vote for any dead donkey so long as it wears the right colour rosette, we get the mess we deserve ......

[Torchwood]

3 hours ago, Manfred von Dreidecker said:

  Who has ever made their decision how to vote in a general election on what their local candidate promises. It's all about what party is going to be in power, that's the only point of it. It would be an utter waste of everybody's time if all it was about was which carefully programmed nonentity gets to sit in the seat labelled with the name of your particular constituency. 

Thats not entirely true; there are some areas that elect particular people because they like those people- I used to live in one such and the same guy was MP for 33 years.  Thats no accident- his (and his wifes) work within the community was recognised and it was commented on from people living elsewhere that it would be nice if all MPs were as good.

[Space Commander Travis]

7 minutes ago, Torchwood said:

Thats not entirely true; there are some areas that elect particular people because they like those people- I used to live in one such and the same guy was MP for 33 years.  Thats no accident- his (and his wifes) work within the community was recognised and it was commented on from people living elsewhere that it would be nice if all MPs were as good.

Oh that's true yes, what I had in mind was the kind of obedient dummy in a suit who's only in it to get a foot on the rung of the ladder of Power. In fact the whole concept of Ministers and even the PM also being MPs is a flawed one really isn't it, as they couldn't possibly continue to have an interest in their constituents once they're a Big and Important Person who might get to talk to the US President one day! I mean can you imagine the people of where is it, Maidenhead and Marlow, ever being able to get Theresa May's ear if they're unhappy about parking or something?

Edited May 17, 2017 by Manfred von Dreidecker

[stevewinn]

1 hour ago, Essan said:

Thats what happens.  And why I refuse to vote.   Its not what should happen

The Queen may ask any elected member of parliament to be her Prime Minister (it doesnt have to be the leader of the biggest gang of silly bickering schoolgirls) and the PM may appoint any member of parliament to their Cabinet (it doesnt have to be members of their own petty little gang)

And in any case, for a democratic parliament to be efficient, we need a good opposition.

Therefore we should elect the best possible candidates to parliament      And if we dont, and vote for any dead donkey so long as it wears the right colour rosette, we get the mess we deserve ......

Bolded, also worth mentioning the practice of the political parties parachuting candidates into safe seats. As happened in my constituency, Our MP is not even from Liverpool but Enfield London, His claim to fame is winning his Enfield seat from Michael Portillio in 1997.

When he eventually lost his seat in 2005 to the Tories, he was kept on by the labour party as an up and coming starlet, and the labour party parachuted him into the safe labour seat, in the process they deselected two local Labour candidates who were Liverpool born and bred, all because they wanted their man elected as an MP, same happened in another Liverpool constituency of wavertree with Luiciana Berger. another London Born candidate with links to the Blairs, who rocketed up the party ranking to shadow minister.

So sometimes peoples hands are tied in the donkey derby.

Edited May 17, 2017 by stevewinn

[Torchwood]

hmm....

 

Now this one made me chuckle:

 

 

 

Edited May 17, 2017 by Torchwood

[LV-426]

1 hour ago, Essan said:

And in any case, for a democratic parliament to be efficient, we need a good opposition.

Therefore we should elect the best possible candidates to parliament      And if we dont, and vote for any dead donkey so long as it wears the right colour rosette, we get the mess we deserve ......

 

There's no avoiding it, no matter what the other issues are, Brexit is going to change the face of our country. Whether looking at trade, questions of national defence outside the EU, etc., you have to ask which party can lead us through the next few years.

Can anyone honestly say "Labour" or "Lib Dem" and keep a straight face?

I totally agree about a good opposition. Honestly though, the best chance of a good opposition in the coming years is for Labour to get a sharp wake up call with a Tory landslide, and undertake some serious reforms.

[Torchwood]

I'd certainly say Labour over Tory...the tories seem reluctant to debate anything with anyone, which rather suggests their contribution to the brexit negotiations will be to roll over and die....or sell the entire country on Ebay and use the proceeds to pad out their pensions.

[Space Commander Travis]

56 minutes ago, Torchwood said:

hmm....

 

Now this one made me chuckle:

 

 

 

Is that the same one as the Brexit Bus?

[Torchwood]

I believe Greenpeace got the Brexit bus.

Edited May 17, 2017 by Torchwood

[Torchwood]

Oh, wow, shes come up with a couple of policies- 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-39956541

Bad ones, that the tories dont appear to actually agree on....wait I thought that it was supposed to the Labour Party that were falling apart?

[LV-426]

4 hours ago, Torchwood said:

I'd certainly say Labour over Tory...the tories seem reluctant to debate anything with anyone, which rather suggests their contribution to the brexit negotiations will be to roll over and die....or sell the entire country on Ebay and use the proceeds to pad out their pensions.

Okay, I can't argue for the Tories over Labour any more. I feel like I'm living in Bizarro World, and my long dead shop steward, unionist grandad is going to return from the grave to haunt me

Let's say by some miracle Labour win the election.

How do you see Corbyn dealing with Brexit?

As far as I can see, he'll look to stay in the single market, he's already stated he'll unilaterally guarantee the rights of EU citizens living in Britain, without guaranteeing the rights of British citizens abroad. He'll also no doubt seek to maintain all the existing EU laws on employment, environment, etc. He's also stated that he doesn't believe immigration numbers are too high.

So am I reading him wrong, or is he basically planning to stay in the EU without staying in the EU? Possibly with an even worse deal than we had, had we actually remained?

And what about defence? Even though he is having to toe the party line to some degree, he clearly wants to dismantle Trident.

He has noble goals, bless his little cotton socks, but a grasp of reality with the dangerous times we live in?... I don't think so.

Europe, despite the EU's goals, is and always will be unpredicatable. The current American president is unpredictable, and his stance on NATO has shifted from one side to the other - Corbyn has already indicated he will not have a good relationship with Trump. Putin is ambitious, and would love nothing more than to see a splintered Europe without NATO support. The rift between the Islamic world and the Western world is widening across the board, as is the rift between Ultraliberalism and the shift towards the right in Western politics.

Can you honestly see a man like Corbyn showing the strength needed to make the hard decisions that are in our best interest?

And again, the corporation tax hike - it couldn't possibly come at a worse time, whether you love or loathe the idea.

[Torchwood]

Its increasingly looking like an "anyone but tory" election.  Might be worth seeing what the other parties are offering in your area at a local level and picking the best of them, so long as it isnt tory.

A vote for Tory is a vote for a party who can't stand up in debate with anyone who are supposed to represent our national interests, and who believes if you chant "strong and Stable" often enough it'll become true. Its a vote for the total destruction of the welfare state - no benefits, NHS all gone, but don't worry you'll still have to pay tax through the eyeballs as Austerity is an excuse to milk us for everything we've got and hand it to the rich people who have the tories in their pocket. 

With the National debt heading out of control its clear that someone in Tory Britain has made a killing this last few years.  

And its not us. And if it continues there will be nothing left. All the money, all the power back where it belongs in the hands of the establishment. 

 

 

Oh, and I was having a wee think last night- does anyone know how much you'd get for scrapping the BBC?  Some folk mentioned they felt there was a bit of hole in Labours figures and that they wouldn't be able to afford to carry out their plans. And then on the BBC, with 3 weeks to go before the election, and a hell of a lot at stake, instead of asking those on the campaign trail insightful questions about the economy or healthcare, or brexit or any of their other policies, the BBC decided that what was really in the public interest was to talk about beards.  At which point I realised the BBC had outlived its usefulness and could be scraped, sold off for parts and the money used to fund the NHS...

Edited May 18, 2017 by Torchwood

[Space Commander Travis]

Well, today "May's Pitch to voters: Market Intervention, Welfare Cuts, Looser Fiscal Policy". so vote Ms. May for hard-right Conservatism and more state intervention! it's a guaranteed winner! But we all must vote for Ms. May because she's our only hope for brexit! And then we'll be free! Free to enjoy hard-right Conservatism and a world of welfare cuts and State intervention! But they'll be pouring more money into the NHS than ever before!! But they'll still have to close emergency units and specialist baby units because it's more efficient and it'll provide a better service for our customers! 

 

[Space Commander Travis]

But in a shameless ripoff of Jezzer Corbyn's blusterings in an attempt to put a compassionate face oh hard right Conservatism; she'll target "so-called Fat Cats, who rip off ordinary people, according to the Sun. It said measures will be taken against rail bosses landlords and lawyers, without providing details". Rail bosses, Ms. May? You do know that rail fares are set by the Government, do you, and it's the Department for Transport that sets the annual fare increases? But hey, she's our only hope for Brexit! So go, Ms. May! We love you almost as much as we did Hillary! 

[Space Commander Travis]

6 hours ago, LV-426 said:

And what about defence? Even though he is having to toe the party line to some degree, he clearly wants to dismantle Trident.

and what about ti? Do you seriously imagine that (a) the Uk would ever be permitted to use it unilaterally, and (b) if it was scrapped, that Russia's Tyrant V. Putin would immediately attack? That's what NATO's supposed to be about (supposed to), collective defence. What particular weapons one particular country has shouldn't really be particularly important. 

[Torchwood]

Last I checked the Yanks still hold our hand when it comes to nukes so we couldnt fire them if we wanted to. And why would we want to?  We'd have to be MAD. Theres no winner in a Nuclear war, it doesnt matter if you have them or if you don't, your dead either way.

Also I can't believe that Corbyn got grief for saying he'd only fight as a last resort; Its supposed to be a last resort! Its not supposed to be the go-to solution!

I think he can be trusted on defence more than Blair could.  

Quote

As far as I can see, he'll look to stay in the single market, he's already stated he'll unilaterally guarantee the rights of EU citizens living in Britain, without guaranteeing the rights of British citizens abroad. He'll also no doubt seek to maintain all the existing EU laws on employment, environment, etc. He's also stated that he doesn't believe immigration numbers are too high.

Immigration is a bit of non-issue.  Not that its not happening, or that too much of it might be bad, just that there doesnt appear to be anything that can be [legally or ethically] done to reduce it. The Tories are beating that drum again, despite not once coming close to any of their targets. Might just be a case of like it or lump it.

 

Remember that Europe leans rather to the left, so I'd guess Corbyn is banking on them recognising that if we give a little, they'll give a little too, and garauntee the right of our citizens abroad. But dont forget he's always been a bit of a Euro-Sceptic ( I'm convinced he only campaigned for remain because he wouldnt want to be seen dead on a podium next to Farage!) , and didn't the Tories already vote in exact copies of the EU laws into British law anyway ?

 

Its almost hilarious, whilst being horrific how biased the media are over the election of course. They're doing their best to spin Hillary Clinton as anything other than Corporate Spokesperson she is. 

 

Sorry, I meant Theresa May, Cant think how I mixed those two up...

Edited May 18, 2017 by Torchwood

[Frank Merton]

Oh there can be a winner in a nuclear war -- a nuclear war does not have to be global.  If India and Pakistan were to go at it, Pakistan would no longer exist.  The same with the US and almost any other single country, including even Russia.

I think the main restraint is not practicality or uncertainty but morality.

[Space Commander Travis]

Hey guess what everyone, we got a letter from Theresa May today!  Explaining how it's very important that we vote for her* as the alternative is either Strong and Stable Leadership for a Brighter Tomorrow or A Coalition of Chaos with Jeremy Corbyn. Don't you think that that would make a good title for a Saturday night comedy game show? "And now, A Coalition of Chaos, and here he is, your host, Jeremy Corbyn!" *runs on set down stairs to accompaniment of canned house orchestra* 

 

* or if you want to be pedantic  the local Parliamentary Candidate, who is in fact the sitting MP who has a majority of about 200,000 

[Torchwood]

Ah, Brighter Tomorrow eh?   Death Tax's, Dementia Tax, Age of Retirement going up so you have to leave work through ill health and then die unable to pay for the care you need, and then all your assets assuming you have such go straight into the pockets of the rich and wealthy!

 

Those Bentleys don't polish themselves you know!

[stevewinn]

17 hours ago, LV-426 said:

Okay, I can't argue for the Tories over Labour any more. I feel like I'm living in Bizarro World, and my long dead shop steward, unionist grandad is going to return from the grave to haunt me

Let's say by some miracle Labour win the election.

How do you see Corbyn dealing with Brexit?

As far as I can see, he'll look to stay in the single market, he's already stated he'll unilaterally guarantee the rights of EU citizens living in Britain, without guaranteeing the rights of British citizens abroad. He'll also no doubt seek to maintain all the existing EU laws on employment, environment, etc. He's also stated that he doesn't believe immigration numbers are too high.

So am I reading him wrong, or is he basically planning to stay in the EU without staying in the EU? Possibly with an even worse deal than we had, had we actually remained?

And what about defence? Even though he is having to toe the party line to some degree, he clearly wants to dismantle Trident.

He has noble goals, bless his little cotton socks, but a grasp of reality with the dangerous times we live in?... I don't think so.

Europe, despite the EU's goals, is and always will be unpredicatable. The current American president is unpredictable, and his stance on NATO has shifted from one side to the other - Corbyn has already indicated he will not have a good relationship with Trump. Putin is ambitious, and would love nothing more than to see a splintered Europe without NATO support. The rift between the Islamic world and the Western world is widening across the board, as is the rift between Ultraliberalism and the shift towards the right in Western politics.

Can you honestly see a man like Corbyn showing the strength needed to make the hard decisions that are in our best interest?

And again, the corporation tax hike - it couldn't possibly come at a worse time, whether you love or loathe the idea.

excellent post.

Its clear we need to vote for a Tory government to get us through Brexit. 

On the night of election defeat for the Labour party, the knives will be out for Corbyn, but he will stick around and achieve what he set out to do, take Labour back to the good old days, and he can only do this with a massive defeat as it will, at a stroke clear the Labour decks of all the Blairites MP's from the Party, the same ones trying to oust Corbyn, then and only then can true Labour Party reforms happen, and as the dust settles on the Newly reformed Labour party at the next election 2022 Labour will be a true alternative to the Tories.

I've never voted for the Tory party, voted Labour Twice and UKIP in the EU elections. But there's a time and a place for Party loyalty and this election is not the time and certainly not the place. and as such i'll be voting Tory and hopefully they get a massive majority to see us through Brexit, in 2022 it might be a different story.

Edited May 18, 2017 by stevewinn

[Space Commander Travis]

10 hours ago, stevewinn said:

Its clear we need to vote for a Tory government to get us through Brexit. 

It's clear we need hard right Conservatism and "more money being poured into the NHS than ever before (while at the same time emergency units and specialist baby units are being closed and people expected to travel forty miles "because it's more efficient"? 

"But Brexit is so much more important than any of that!"? Once we're Free, then what? We'll be free to enjoy... hard right Conservatism and more hospitals being closed "because it's more efficient"? Frankly I'm coming to think brexit is a red herring and it'll make not the slightest difference at all to the ordinary person, whereas more hospitals being closed probably will. 

[Torchwood]

11 hours ago, stevewinn said:

Its clear we need to vote for a Tory government to get us through Brexit. 

 

You think May can give you Brexit?  This fickle woman who changes her mind about everything on a daily basis (strongly suggesting she isnt doing the thinking and is merely Murdochs mouthpiece.) isn't reliable enough to deliver Brexit. She can't stand up to Corbyn in the commons, she refuses to even try to take him on in the run up to the election, and when given an opportunity to make Britains case against the EU did she do anything useful? Did she have our backs and fight our corner?  No, she tried her hardest to sabotage the whole damn thing before it even started  for the sake of bloody soundbite!  

Shes not strong and stable, shes bloody deluded and dangerous! 

If Tory win the next election then you're right, Corbyn will probably survive, get rid of the Blairites and be back in 5 years for another go- Problem is that Britain as you know it will be dead and gone by then. There will be nothing left for him to save.

This is about more than just Brexit. The right has had its way to long- the inequalities are getting more and more marked and something needs to change. The Capitalists need a good kicking now, before they sell of the country and leave us to starve.  The Blairites and the Murdoch media need a thorough going over for the good of society to remind them of morals and things, and then we can start again. Theyve had 20 years of bending us over and doing whatever they want. 20 years of trying to squeeze every penny out of us that they can. Its time for that to stop, to redress the imbalances and rebuild Britain for the many who don't have the Money and power to buy the Goverments support. 

Vote for anyone but the Tories this June, while there is still a Britain left to save.

 

 

 

[Frank Merton]

1 minute ago, Torchwood said:

You think May can give you Brexit?  This fickle woman who changes her mind about everything on a daily basis (strongly suggesting she isnt doing the thinking and is merely Murdochs mouthpiece.) isn't reliable enough to deliver Brexit. She can't stand up to Corbyn in the commons, she refuses to even try to take him on in the run up to the election, and when given an opportunity to make Britains case against the EU did she do anything useful? Did she have our backs and fight our corner?  No, she tried her hardest to sabotage the whole damn thing before it even started  for the sake of bloody soundbite!  

Shes not strong and stable, shes bloody deluded and dangerous! 

If Tory win the next election then you're right, Corbyn will probably survive, get rid of the Blairites and be back in 5 years for another go- Problem is that Britain as you know it will be dead and gone by then. There will be nothing left for him to save.

This is about more than just Brexit. The right has had its way to long- the inequalities are getting more and more marked and something needs to change. The Capitalists need a good kicking now, before they sell of the country and leave us to starve.  The Blairites and the Murdoch media need a thorough going over for the good of society to remind them of morals and things, and then we can start again. Theyve had 20 years of bending us over and doing whatever they want. 20 years of trying to squeeze every penny out of us that they can. Its time for that to stop, to redress the imbalances and rebuild Britain for the many who don't have the Money and power to buy the Goverments support. 

Vote for anyone but the Tories this June, while there is still a Britain left to save.

 

 

 

Jeez how sexist can you get.  Obviously you are working for the Russians though so who cares -- but I thought they wren't so sexist.