Theresa May calls General Election for June 8

[Torchwood]

4 hours ago, stevewinn said:

Do you remember when labour held the office of Government for 13 years, 1997 to 2010. why didn't labour end homelessness or Zero hour contracts? or any of the other policies you've mentioned.

Ah, the Warmonger years. Heres a reason- Blair. Labour to a jump to the right and such things were no longer a priority when you could do much more fun things like dropping bombs on people. Also I don't recall zero-hour contracts then being the headline making issue it is today.  Homelessness is interesting-  its difficult to find one source that shows it in full or I'd provide a handy link or graph or something, but there seems to be a definite trend of it falling all through the previous labour administration until 2010, when the tories take over, and then its risen every year since.  I suspect it is impossible to eliminate it entirely (some people choose it deliberately apparently) but having a crack at it shouldn't be something to disparage. 

Quote

When it comes to Corbyn and McDonnell their attendances and support for the IRA is well documented. If it was 1917 the pair of them would've been shot as traitors.

unlikely- Cant find an instance of martial law in 1917. Possibly in 1916, but only if caught talking to sinn fein/ira in dublin, in, IIRC, may-august or something. And even then they'd have to be unlucky- only 15 where executed out of thousands arrested.  And they'd have good company in the form of Thatcher, Major etc etc etc.

Theres a slight problem with your argument of course- its all very well trying to blacken the name of those who tried to negotiate with the other various interests in NI over the years, to describe them as traitors, or terrorist sympathsiers, but the thing is it actually worked!  Theres peace in NI now, winebars and comedy clubs where once there were  bombed out buildings and piles of dead school children.  Its unsavory indeed, to have to try and listen to the point of view of a man who wants to kill you and your culture, but talking stopped the killing. Can you say the same for executions? Well some people like to draw a line and divide the world into two, and say if your not for us your against us, and let the firing squad have its target practice.  And then there are people who realise that if , after a century, repeatedly putting people up against a wall and shooting them hasn't worked, then maybe its time to try and talk, and see if you can come to an agreement.  You could call it , I dunno, the Good Friday Agreement , or something...

Theres a reason why of course.  You can shoot a man, but you can't shoot an ideology.  The IRA and Isis and thousands like them don't/didn't follow a man. Oh, theres a leader of course but he's a replaceable nobody. Thats why we've shot/bombed, what is it? 8 Isis leaders now and they still keep coming back for more.  You can shoot as many as you like and there will always be another ready to take their place.  Another with the exact same ideal. Shoot him too? Ok, but here comes his replacement...

You can't go on like that without a century or more of killing, and that won't end it. Sooner or later you have to fight the ideology that they are following. And you can't shoot ideas...Corbyn, and Thatcher, the IRA, and everyone else involved in the NI peace process knew it could only be solved by talking. 

So no, I won't try and help vilify anyone who recognised that fact and played a part in bringing about peace, no matter what side of the political divide they fall on.

Edited May 22, 2017 by Torchwood

[Torchwood]

I see now that the Tories are already backtracking on their manifesto...start as you mean to go on I suppose!  As I said before,  shes not strong and stable , shes fickle. 

BTW I asked if anyone could name any of her successful policies- things she done or put into action that havn't been met with criticism from all sides.  Has anyone found one yet?  No?  I'll keep looking then. But so far I find nothing in her track record to back up this claim of Strong and Stable.

Has the same hobby as Cameron though- likes to **** Pigs.

[Space Commander Travis]

6 hours ago, stevewinn said:

 

When it comes to Corbyn and McDonnell their attendances and support for the IRA is well documented. If it was 1917 the pair of them would've been shot as traitors. 

 

 

President Donald Trump has just given a hundred billion or so dollars' worth of aid & comfort to the world's leading terrorist state, one that killed 3,000 people in a single attack on his country. 

Edited May 22, 2017 by Manfred von Dreidecker

[Space Commander Travis]

43 minutes ago, Torchwood said:

Has the same hobby as Cameron though- likes to **** Pigs.

I'm dying to know what the bleeped out word is. Farm? 

[Torchwood]

50 minutes ago, Manfred von Dreidecker said:

I'm dying to know what the bleeped out word is. Farm? 

ooh! Yer so close!

[Grey Area]

I am stumped.

I don't want to vote for anyone and that annoys the hell out of me.

I honestly believe a hung parliament maybe the best outcome in this election.

[hetrodoxly]

4 hours ago, Torchwood said:

Ah, the Warmonger years. Heres a reason- Blair. Labour to a jump to the right and such things were no longer a priority when you could do much more fun things like dropping bombs on people. Also I don't recall zero-hour contracts then being the headline making issue it is today.  Homelessness is interesting-  its difficult to find one source that shows it in full or I'd provide a handy link or graph or something, but there seems to be a definite trend of it falling all through the previous labour administration until 2010, when the tories take over, and then its risen every year since.  I suspect it is impossible to eliminate it entirely (some people choose it deliberately apparently) but having a crack at it shouldn't be something to disparage. 

unlikely- Cant find an instance of martial law in 1917. Possibly in 1916, but only if caught talking to sinn fein/ira in dublin, in, IIRC, may-august or something. And even then they'd have to be unlucky- only 15 where executed out of thousands arrested.  And they'd have good company in the form of Thatcher, Major etc etc etc.

Theres a slight problem with your argument of course- its all very well trying to blacken the name of those who tried to negotiate with the other various interests in NI over the years, to describe them as traitors, or terrorist sympathsiers, but the thing is it actually worked!  Theres peace in NI now, winebars and comedy clubs where once there were  bombed out buildings and piles of dead school children.  Its unsavory indeed, to have to try and listen to the point of view of a man who wants to kill you and your culture, but talking stopped the killing. Can you say the same for executions? Well some people like to draw a line and divide the world into two, and say if your not for us your against us, and let the firing squad have its target practice.  And then there are people who realise that if , after a century, repeatedly putting people up against a wall and shooting them hasn't worked, then maybe its time to try and talk, and see if you can come to an agreement.  You could call it , I dunno, the Good Friday Agreement , or something...

Theres a reason why of course.  You can shoot a man, but you can't shoot an ideology.  The IRA and Isis and thousands like them don't/didn't follow a man. Oh, theres a leader of course but he's a replaceable nobody. Thats why we've shot/bombed, what is it? 8 Isis leaders now and they still keep coming back for more.  You can shoot as many as you like and there will always be another ready to take their place.  Another with the exact same ideal. Shoot him too? Ok, but here comes his replacement...

You can't go on like that without a century or more of killing, and that won't end it. Sooner or later you have to fight the ideology that they are following. And you can't shoot ideas...Corbyn, and Thatcher, the IRA, and everyone else involved in the NI peace process knew it could only be solved by talking. 

So no, I won't try and help vilify anyone who recognised that fact and played a part in bringing about peace, no matter what side of the political divide they fall on.

Corbyn had nothing whatsoever to do with 'peace in Northern Ireland' it's pure fantasy (fake news) his name as never been connected with it until recently.

More important than the political theatre Corbyn engaged in is the fact that Corbyn has not been consistent in his support of the efforts made by Britain to encourage dialogue and the Northern Ireland Peace Process. Most notably, he voted against the critically important 1985 Anglo-Irish Agreement, saying:

"Does the hon. Gentleman accept that some of us oppose the agreement for reasons other than those that he has given [i.e. Unionist]? We believe that the agreement strengthens rather than weakens the border between the six and the twenty-six counties, and those of us who wish to see a united Ireland oppose the agreement for that reason"

[Torchwood]

22 minutes ago, hetrodoxly said:

Corbyn had nothing whatsoever to do with 'peace in Northern Ireland' it's pure fantasy (fake news) his name as never been connected with it until recently.

Granted, officially however, neither was anyone else for a long time.

 

Very much enjoyed Mays interview with Marr tonight.  I don't think May did.

Edited May 22, 2017 by Torchwood

[Space Commander Travis]

 

 

22 minutes ago, hetrodoxly said:

Corbyn had nothing whatsoever to do with 'peace in Northern Ireland' it's pure fantasy (fake news) his name as never b

That's the sad thing about Blair. That's what he could have been remembered for, if he hadn't decided to go all messianic and decided that he'd be better served by toadying up to America's dictator. 

[spud the mackem]

8 hours ago, stevewinn said:

It seems Labour are going down the Lib Dem route, no chance of being elected so they can pretty much promise anything and everything knowing they''ll not be in a position to enact it. So, what you do when faced with such a defeat labour is expecting you make proposals and promises hoping that enough people dotted about the country don't give it to much thought and vote labour, that means in a great number of seats Labour will get their deposit back.

Both Parties are promising things that they cannot possibly keep. Corbyn has promised £38 billion to the N.H.S and no tax rises so where is this money coming from.The Tories have promised to reduce immigration, which they won't keep.At least the Tories are being honest when saying that there will be cuts and reduced spending while the Labour are promising no tax rises, LOL. The only items that are coming down are Rain, Bird Poo, and Para's.If any Party kept their promises they would be in Gov't Forever.

[Torchwood]

8 minutes ago, spud the mackem said:

Both Parties are promising things that they cannot possibly keep. Corbyn has promised £38 billion to the N.H.S and no tax rises so where is this money coming from.The Tories have promised to reduce immigration, which they won't keep.At least the Tories are being honest when saying that there will be cuts and reduced spending while the Labour are promising no tax rises, LOL. The only items that are coming down are Rain, Bird Poo, and Para's.If any Party kept their promises they would be in Gov't Forever.

Well, according to the manifesto the  extra 30billion will come from increased income tax on the top 5% of earners, plus a higher tax on private medical insurance. That 30b is spread over a parliament so presumably 5 years. 

 

The only promise Labour made about no tax rises was to those on lower incomes. under 80k/a iirc.

 

 

[+Hammerclaw]

5 hours ago, Manfred von Dreidecker said:

President Donald Trump has just given a hundred billion or so dollars' worth of aid & comfort to the world's leading terrorist state, one that killed 3,000 people in a single attack on his country. 

Yep, makes about as much sense as having spent trillions defending Germany and Japan. Oh--wait a minute--the Saudis are actually paying for it.

[ali smack]

I wonder who's going to get in?

[Torchwood]

Well it wont be May.  I'll just leave these here...

http://uk.businessinsider.com/theresa-may-warned-by-manchester-police-that-cuts-risked-terror-attack-2017-5

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/theresa-may-army-deployment-manchester-bombing-police-federation-police-cuts-steve-white_uk_5925d9f0e4b062f96a336e5f

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3326596/Further-police-budget-cuts-affect-ability-officers-respond-Paris-style-terror-attack-according-leaked-document.html

[Torchwood]

Is it ok to say that Brexit did more to reduce immigration than May ever did?

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40043483

[stevewinn]

3 hours ago, Torchwood said:

Is it ok to say that Brexit did more to reduce immigration than May ever did?

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40043483

only if you want to spin it.

Net migration was lower in the second half of 2012 through to first quarter of 2014. long before the Brexit vote was announced or even held in 2016. What is your excuse for that, Torchwoody.

In 2016, the total number of people moving to the UK was made up of 264,000 non-EU citizens, 250,000 EU citizens and 74,000 British citizens. that's the equivalent of the City of Newcastle arriving every single year.

In 1990 net migration stood at 36,000, in 1998 net immigration to the UK was 48,000 per annum. Today it stands at 249,000.

simply unsustainable.

The election of Labour in 1997 and their polices on immigration are as they say, the chickens of the Labour party policy are coming home to roost some 20 years later.

In 1997 net migration was 48,000 however it rose extremely rapidly, almost trebling in one year to 140,000 in 1998; it was not to fall below 100,000 again. Between 1997 and 2010, the New Labour years, net migration averaged 200,000 per year, five times higher than under the Major government of 1990-1996. It is now clear that net foreign migration between 1997 and 2010 was 3.6 million, while nearly a million British citizens emigrated giving total net migration of 2.7 million.

New Labour a disaster for this Nation. and a calamity today. i hope they spend a generation in the wilderness.

 

 

 

[Torchwood]

15 hours ago, stevewinn said:

only if you want to spin it.

Net migration was lower in the second half of 2012 through to first quarter of 2014. long before the Brexit vote was announced or even held in 2016. What is your excuse for that, Torchwoody.

Well given that university tuition fees were tripled that year, causing immigrants on student visas to drop by a quarter ( the area of the largest such drop), and work visas and those accompanying them had been dropping at a lower rate as a result of the economic crises since 2008, my statement still stands for itself.

I agree though that unchecked immigration is unsustainable , certainly in the long term. And that New Labour was a disaster.  I suspect New Old Labour will be a marked improvement.

BTW has anyone found anything (and I'm going lower the bar a bit here given the lack of responces!) that May has done that could be in anyway considered successful or useful , or even just "not a complete disaster"?  

[bee]

 

22 hours ago, ali smack said:

I wonder who's going to get in?

 

20 hours ago, Torchwood said:

Well it wont be May.  

 

 

just a repeat  for future reference ... on 9th June ...

 

 

[Torchwood]

28 minutes ago, bee said:

 

just a repeat  for future reference ... on 9th June ...

 

Hey, I can only tell you what I see when I look into the Crystal Balls...

[Torchwood]

Funny, it was only a few weeks ago that labour was 20 points behind in the polls...

Now just 5.

 

[stevewinn]

5 hours ago, Torchwood said:

Well given that university tuition fees were tripled that year, causing immigrants on student visas to drop by a quarter ( the area of the largest such drop), and work visas and those accompanying them had been dropping at a lower rate as a result of the economic crises since 2008, my statement still stands for itself.

I agree though that unchecked immigration is unsustainable , certainly in the long term. And that New Labour was a disaster.  I suspect New Old Labour will be a marked improvement.

BTW has anyone found anything (and I'm going lower the bar a bit here given the lack of responces!) that May has done that could be in anyway considered successful or useful , or even just "not a complete disaster"?  

your point does not stand at all, you first asked if it was ok to say that Brexit did more to reduce immigration than May ever did? the answer to that is simply no, as immigration had been lower in 2012, 2013, 2014. that was before Brexit was even on the cards and long before any referendum. So what is your excuse for those years, as you cant use Brexit. you ducked that question once already.

As for your loaded question of what as Theresa May done that could be in anyway considered successful, ask that question on June 9th and the answer will be a resounding landslide victory, and labour in the wilderness for a generation. Theresa May keeping labour out of office/government for at least 12 years. will be considered a huge success, after the 13 years of failed Labour.  

I see your crystal ball has been in action again, with your bold statement, Corbyns labour will be a marked improvement. Its a shame you put your crystal ball down a little to early, if you'd looked a few minutes longer you'd have seen Corbyns Labour was not elected and in the following days Labour tore itself apart with in fighting.

Torchwoody, prepare yourself for a huge disappointment on election night and look forward to five years of a Tory Government.

 

[Torchwood]

8 minutes ago, stevewinn said:

your point does not stand at all, you first asked if it was ok to say that Brexit did more to reduce immigration than May ever did? the answer to that is simply no, as immigration had been lower in 2012, 2013, 2014. that was before Brexit was even on the cards and long before any referendum. So what is your excuse for those years, as you cant use Brexit. you ducked that question once already.

Yes and I agreed it was lower but not because of anything May did. 

 

10 minutes ago, stevewinn said:

As for your loaded question of what as Theresa May done that could be in anyway considered successful, ask that question on June 9th and the answer will be a resounding landslide victory, and labour in the wilderness for a generation. Theresa May keeping labour out of office/government for at least 12 years. will be considered a huge success, after the 13 years of failed Labour

So, the only thing you can find that she has done well is something she hasn't done yet and might not do at all?  Is that the kind of feeble argument you're reduced to?  Theres no substance there, nothing to give it depth, nothing to weigh an opinion on.

How the hell can her greatest be success be something she hasn't done yet!? And how can it be called a great success when it involves beating a 100-1 outsider- You can't give someone such credit for scoring against an open goal when they havn't even kicked the fricking ball yet!

Thats not an argument- its a delusion!

 

 

 

[Space Commander Travis]

20 hours ago, bee said:

 

 

 

just a repeat  for future reference ... on 9th June ...

 

 

it has to be Ms. May because she's our Only Hope for brexit? Or because now also she's the only one that can protect us? 

Edited May 27, 2017 by Manfred von Dreidecker
that can, not can can

[bee]

1 hour ago, Manfred von Dreidecker said:

it has to be Ms. May because she's our Only Hope for brexit? Or because now also she's the only one that can protect us? 

 

in reality she is our only guaranteed hope for carrying through on the referendum result to leave the EU -

forget Farron - and Corbyn is very evasive about it all -

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/election-2017-jeremy-corbyn-uk-leave-eu-brexit-prime-minister-win-general-labour-leader-a7726551.html

this comment under the article sums it up -

 

This is why millions of Labour supporters are being forced to vote Tory because they cannot trust Labour to get us out of the EU. If Labour had also offered a referendum at the last election they would probably have won.

 

Labour supporters will start voting Labour again once we have left the EU.

[bee]

21 hours ago, Torchwood said:

Hey, I can only tell you what I see when I look into the Crystal Balls...

 

is that Crystal Ball from the same batch as the one Br Cornelius had ---- ? -----