Theresa May calls General Election for June 8

[stevewinn]

11 hours ago, Torchwood said:

Indeed Stevie!  I can't say I agree with everything that Corbyn stands for - I suspect we disagree on Trident and the Royals and the Falklands etc but on such things Corbyn appears to be happy to go with what the majority want (lumping it, if not actually liking it) which I suppose is a requirement of democracy. 

But I do like that the press are out to get him and really struggling to corner him, forced to dredge up stuff that happened before half the electorate were born as though it were relevant. I do like that he can actually stand up and debate, and when asked a question he actually thinks about it, and gives an answer, unlike May the question dodger, who when pressed for an answer goes to pieces so fast people get hit by the shrapnel ( It did seem that in the interview with Paxman that he went easy on her- some say its cos he's a Tory supporter, but it looked to me more like he was worried she'd burst into tears if he pressed her to hard.).  I like that he realises he's a party leader, and him and his fellow candidates that are up for election, as opposed to the woman who seems to think shes the only Tory standing.

It doesn't take long, when watching them both, to realise that she recites slogans, and he listens to people.  She's fickle (and not in a useful "changing opinion when presented with new evidence" sort of way, but a terrible knee-jerk reaction sort of way), he sticks to his guns. The Tory (Or should I say Theresa's) Manifesto is an uncosted , badly thought out Austerity package, so badly written the Tories don't seem to know whats actually in it. Compared to Labour's; clearly thought out, costed(whether you agree with the costings or not, at least they made the effort!), and full of hope and optimism. 

The choice seems pretty clear cut.

I just watched her brief stint with Paxman where May was getting laughed at, and heckled as a failure.  People see through the feeble character assassination and slogans and realise she's hopeless- laughing at her live on TV.  That speaks volumes.

I do need to watch the Corbyn half though- I only got back from work halfway through....

 

After watching the Sky News debates, what did we learn? nothing, for example your mind is made up and Labour will get your vote regardless, but in all honesty Corbyn done nothing of convincing the undecided to vote for him, and that's why on June 8th people will vote for Theresa May, on matters of, Strong leadership, stronger Brexit negotiator, and stronger on Defence and Security. and in such times as Brexit people will vote for the aforementioned and the status quo,much as we see in other times of uncertainty, during the Afghan war and Iraq War the country voted to keep labour in government.

[LV-426]

12 hours ago, Manfred von Dreidecker said:

Do you really think NATO will be scrapped as Pres. Trump threatened during his campaign? That's the only way that Britain could become a "weak defenseless target" after Labour's Commie Leader scrapps the "independent" nuclear detergent. Do you think that the EU countries would happily stand aside and watch while Putin launched his Missiles, since he's just waiting for his chance as soon as his cutely bearded puppet gets into power and strips Britain to the state of a weak, defenceless little fluffy kitten? "the most dangerous times since the end of WWII" may well be right, but Nuclear Weapons ain't going to help in the slightest in deterring terrorism, are they, which is the real danger, not any mythical danger from the Great Russian Bogeyman. But Corby wants to talk to terrorists!!   Can you think of any better approach? Blitzing the terrorists again? That,many would argue, is what created the terrorists in the first place (certainly those that emanated from Libya and Syria). If you want to talk about stripping the forces of things that might be of some use, look what the Conservative adminstration since 2010 has done with the Navy. But we're soon getting the biggest aircraft carrier the country has ever seen!! Yes, but it won't actually have any fixed wing aircraft till about 2020, and then it'll have all of 12 fighters!! 

I'll try and answer, but I only had about two hours sleep last night, so my brain is Swiss cheese

Do I think Trump will abandon NATO? Personally, no. He's unpredictable, but I think on taking office, his advisors would have pointed out just how fragile European politics is, and how removing US influence from the region would not be in America's overall interests. That's if he stays in office of course, with the amount of liberal enemies he has in politics and the media looking to remove him by fair means or foul.

I'd also ask however, why should America shoulder all the costs and responsibilities for keeping our collective asses safe? We're one of the few European nations that even attempts to meet the 2% GDP on defence.

I know you're fond of mocking any suggestion that Russia might have anything less than honorable intentions too, but let's be realistic here. I don't know what Putin's ambitions are, but the little I've seen of his actions suggest that he'd be quite happy to expand his territory and influence across Europe. If Europe fell to war in the coming years, can you honestly see him looking to remain neutral, and restore sovereign democracies when the dust settles?

You can't just look at the current political pieces in play either. There may be a time when America becomes more isolationist, or not. The may be a time when Russia looks to expand its territories, or not. There may come a time where Europe is at war again, or not.

The bottom line is that in politics, as in life, you have to look after your own interests first, as nobody else will, and then you fit the pieces together on how to interact with the rest of the world.

Abandoning Trident would be a HUGE mistake. It would be an irreversable decision in today's world. It's not like we could just start a program up again with international approval in the future, should circumstances change.

Trident is what it is. It's a deterrent, and it's a bargaining chip in this crazy ass world we live in.

Corbyn is an idealist. He does not have what it takes to make the hard choices. He can't even commit to drone strikes on known direct threats to Britain.

[Space Commander Travis]

5 minutes ago, LV-426 said:

 

Corbyn is an idealist. He does not have what it takes to make the hard choices. He can't even commit to drone strikes on known direct threats to Britain.

Have they ever achieved anything? We know what the American approach to those is; whoever's in a five hundred yard radius of what we hit, call them the target. Have they ever actually taken any direct threats to Britain? 

Quote

I'd also ask however, why should America shoulder all the costs and responsibilities for keeping our collective asses safe? We're one of the few European nations that even attempts to meet the 2% GDP on defence.

That's what I've been saying, but the expenditure is so skewed towards the nuclear detergent , whatever theoretical use that may have, at the expense of things, particularly the Navy, that might be useful in all sorts of circumstances. 

[bee]

 

I see Rent~a~Mob were out in Cambridge yesterday - 

Teresa May must have know she was going to be ambushed for a bit of Playground Political Theatre and sensibly
stayed away - Jeremy only decided to attend at the last minute but beamed like the star of the the Second Coming -
and Farron...... omg... what an annoying and unpleasant man he is (IMO) -

Anyone who wants the Brexit process to be a success knows what they have to do --- this is no time to mess about -

The EU wants us to fail -
They would make mincemeat out of Corbyn and a Labour Brexit team (that's if they even went through with it)
If Teresa May doesn't get a healthy majority the whole country and economy could suffer-

A wishy washy weak Brexit would not be a good thing for anyone including those who voted to Remain -

I hope good sense prevails or we are in for a rocky ride --

. 
 

 

[Torchwood]

From the people who brought you 

"Brexit Means Brexit!

 

comes this astonishing revelation!

 

"In order to have a strong economy you have to have a strong economy!"

 

 

In other news the Tory party just renamed itself the Tautology Party.

[Torchwood]

3 minutes ago, bee said:

 

I see Rent~a~Mob were out in Cambridge yesterday - 

 

Well of course, couldn't possibly have been people turning up off their own back...

[bee]

 

haha what took you so long, Tourchwood - it took you a whole three minutes after I did my post to arrive...  

.

[bee]

5 minutes ago, Torchwood said:

Well of course, couldn't possibly have been people turning up off their own back...

 

it looked and sounded like a contrived set up - a baying mob -

oh Boo Boo they shouted at Amber Rudd --- boo boo booooooooooo ... 
 

embarrassing 

(and counter productive)

.

[Torchwood]

5 minutes ago, bee said:

 

it looked and sounded like a contrived set up - a baying mob -

oh Boo Boo they shouted at Amber Rudd --- boo boo booooooooooo ... 
 

embarrassing 

(and counter productive)

.

People have been doing that to the Tories everywhere they go I think you'll find.   Thats why Mayhem has been avoiding the public like the plague....Though given how many rich people support the Tories you'd think one would stump up the cash for a mob of their own. 

And why shouldn't they Boo, when all she comes out with is Slogans and Bile.  Even tories have been quoted as saying they are losing the election now, and that its Mays strategy thats losing it for them.

[Space Commander Travis]

23 minutes ago, bee said:

I see Rent~a~Mob were out in Cambridge yesterday - 

Teresa May must have know she was going to be ambushed for a bit of Playground Political Theatre and sensibly
stayed away

Well heavens, if she wants to be pri minister* she'd have to expect that, wouldn't she. Isn't that what Question Time (the parliamentary version) is all about. 

 

* well she already is, of course, but that was sort of by accident 

[Space Commander Travis]

13 minutes ago, bee said:

 

it looked and sounded like a contrived set up - a baying mob -

oh Boo Boo they shouted at Amber Rudd --- boo boo booooooooooo ... 
 

embarrassing 

(and counter productive)

.

isn't that entirely understandable given their record of absolutely nothing to date, and particularly disastrously so in Ms. Rudd's particular department? 

[Space Commander Travis]

27 minutes ago, Torchwood said:

From the people who brought you 

"Brexit Means Brexit!

 

comes this astonishing revelation!

 

"In order to have a strong economy you have to have a strong economy!"

 

 

In other news the Tory party just renamed itself the Tautology Party.

That's a sort of Möbius strip of an argument, isn't it. In order to have something then you have to, er, already have it. 

[Torchwood]

2 minutes ago, Manfred von Dreidecker said:

That's a sort of Möbius strip of an argument, isn't it. In order to have something then you have to, er, already have it. 

Indeed!

 

Now, can anyone tell me, Where is Theresa May?  I heard something banging my bins about last night , Maybe that was her?

[bee]

2 minutes ago, Torchwood said:

 

 

Now, can anyone tell me, Where is Theresa May?  I heard something banging my bins about last night , Maybe that was her?

 

oh please - spare us the contrived electioneering -

.

[Space Commander Travis]

4 minutes ago, bee said:

 

oh please - spare us the contrived electioneering -

.

contrived electioneering? 

Quote

Anyone who wants the Brexit process to be a success knows what they have to do --- this is no time to mess about -

isn't? 

[bee]

11 minutes ago, Manfred von Dreidecker said:

Well heavens, if she wants to be pri minister* she'd have to expect that, wouldn't she. Isn't that what Question Time (the parliamentary version) is all about. 

 

* well she already is, of course, but that was sort of by accident 

 

if Rent~a~Mob chase around after her when the election is over ---- well that's another matter -

but last night was all about boo boo Teresa May bashing in the hope of swaying voters -

but as I said before I think that will turn out to be counter productive -

.

 

[bee]

2 minutes ago, Manfred von Dreidecker said:

contrived electioneering? 

isn't? 

 

Tourchwood was saying silly things about his bins - playing political games -

I am genuinely concerned about the future of this country if Brexit gets ****** up -

.  

[stevewinn]

2 hours ago, bee said:

 

Tourchwood was saying silly things about his bins - playing political games -

I am genuinely concerned about the future of this country if Brexit gets ****** up -

.  

Bee, In work yesterday we was talking about the election, most are voting labour, but that's to be expected here in Liverpool, The evidence Labour are going to win is facebook, twitter etc... where polls have been done, a few of them had Labour on and around the 70% figure. with roughly 20,000 votes cast. which seems a good sample but then you have to look at the Country wide picture. the only true accurate poll will be the one on June 8th.

just look at the election map of 2015, and that is the monumental task facing a Labour Party in chaos. who seriously wants Corbyn as Prime Minister, John McDonnell as Chancellor, Diane Abbott as Home Sec, Emily Thornbury foreign Sec. and that's the question facing the nation. oh, and the banging by Torchwoods bins, CCTV footage showed it was Corbyn crawling out of a skip. now we know where he gets his look from.

[LV-426]

3 hours ago, Torchwood said:

Now, can anyone tell me, Where is Theresa May?  I heard something banging my bins about last night , Maybe that was her?

It might have been Corbyn, looking for new material for his defence and immigration policies

[LV-426]

48 minutes ago, stevewinn said:

who seriously wants Corbyn as Prime Minister, John McDonnell as Chancellor, Diane Abbott as Home Sec, Emily Thornbury foreign Sec. and that's the question facing the nation.

This is the bottom line for me.

Labout could promise me a hot date with Scarlett Johansson, and a lifelong supply of super double-choc chocolate chip cookies, and this line up would still dampen my spirits

[Space Commander Travis]

1 hour ago, LV-426 said:

This is the bottom line for me.

Labout could promise me a hot date with Scarlett Johansson, and a lifelong supply of super double-choc chocolate chip cookies, and this line up would still dampen my spirits

so you'd rather have "Zoinks! Zowie" Boris as the UK's face on the World Stage and Fallon as absurd belligerence "Defence" Secretary? If you want some examples of Fallon's Tory toff stupidity, look at his sabre rattling at Putin and particularly when Putin's Nuke Fleet came down the Channel.  

[LV-426]

7 minutes ago, Manfred von Dreidecker said:

so you'd rather have "Zoinks! Zowie" Boris as the UK's face on the World Stage and Fallon as absurd belligerence "Defence" Secretary? If you want some examples of Fallon's Tory toff stupidity, look at his sabre rattling at Putin and particularly when Putin's Nuke Fleet came down the Channel.  

Quite frankly, yes.

Not because they are particularly appealing, but rather the lesser of two evils.

I'd rather have Bert and Ernie from The Muppets holding positions of power in Britain than these two...

[Torchwood]

Dunno if anyone else has seen this, but its quite an interesting little tool to help anyone whose undecided, or just wants to know whose policies they actually support:

https://voteforpolicies.org.uk/

 

You spend half an hour or so picking through the policies and then it tells you whose you liked most.  It told me I picked Labour mostly, and that people mostly favoured Labour or the Greens based on their policies. Its quite interesting though just how similar most of the parties actually are, and you really have to go through them carefully to work out what the differences are. Actually, the similarities shouldn't be that surprising- they are all parties trying to attract the same group of people and do the same thing. Whats interesting is how much the differ from the rhetoric and spiel and bile that the newspapers spew...

[Torchwood]

hmm interesting article- https://www.thecanary.co/2017/06/01/list-dodgy-millionaire-donors-theresa-may-wont-want-see/

[Torchwood]

Heres a question I've been pondering for a few days , its a bit of a tangent , but bear with me;

 

In all the interview he's done Corbyn in GE2017 has been asked about his connections with the IRA and to a lesser extent about his opinions on the Falklands war. Some interviews were about almost nothing else.  Now, its certainly not wrong to ask the question, though perhaps some of the time given to it would have been better spent on other questions, as it was other subjects were hardly touched, which to my mind is a wasted opportunity!

So my question is this- How Relevant are the Falklands War and the IRA/Troubles in NI to todays voters?  

And this is where my question comes from- I am 34 years old.

I Don't remember the Falklands war because it was the year before I was born. I have studied it since because of my studies in British Military History but thats by the by, I have no actual memory of it, all my knowledge is basically second hand on this subject.  

I can just about remember the IRA - I recall seeing men in balaclavas on the telly when I was young, but I don't recall being aware of what was going on or their significance. The Good Friday Agreement was signed in 1998, so I was 15. I have slightly clearer memories of that, but most of what I remember is that bloke with a beard and a funny accent being on the telly a lot (well it was a funny accent to me and my school mates, we hadn't met many people with an Irish accent in rural England at that age.) Looking back I now know that for most of the 90's the peace talks were taking place. 

I know the importance or significance of these events now, but only because I've looked them up since, because thats the sort of thing I'm interested in- History! And I have to say when it comes to actually studying stuff like that I must be in a minority.

At work the other day I was discussing the recent interview between Corbyn and Paxman- one young lady aged aprox 24 hadn't seen it and pressed me for details. When I mentioned the Falklands and IRA questions she threw her head back and laughed , and asked if tToryboy Paxman could have found two topics less relevant to 2017.

This was echoed by others present, and it perhaps should be mentioned that in an office of several hundred people I'm one of the older ones, and so this occurred to me:

For at least a Quarter of the Electorate (possibly as much as a third) questions about the IRA and Falklands War are completely and utterly irrelevant, simply because to anyone under the age of 30-35 they are an ancient and forgotten history, so why the emphasis on those topics when interviewing a potential PM?

Discuss.