stevewinn Posted June 10, 2017 #601 Share Posted June 10, 2017 2 minutes ago, RAyMO said: The problem I see with this is that it still provides major scope for disagreements even within the tory party. All it takes is for a dozen or soon to dislike the direction of travel and put spanners in the works. The govt needs to define Brexit to both the party and country and if the party accepts it - then get on with it. otherwise or perhaps even with this I would not bet against a second GE before Brexit. The Tories need to just get on with the Brexit negotiations, I highly doubt that during the next 21 months anyway the government would pass major legislation. The legislation for Brexit as already been passed. Brexit was defined in your Government leaflet. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hetrodoxly Posted June 10, 2017 #602 Share Posted June 10, 2017 29 minutes ago, bee said: Mmmmm dunno - she HAD a mandate but then ****** that mandate up by asking for a stronger mandate and mixing it in with Party Politics - ??? . Hindsight is a wonderful thing, lets face it the world and his dog thought she'd get a majority no one would have predicted the kids getting out of bed and the great unwashed falling for 'you can have anything' we are where we are (not much different a place than before the election) and need to make the best of it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hetrodoxly Posted June 10, 2017 #603 Share Posted June 10, 2017 (edited) 45 minutes ago, RAyMO said: The problem I see with this is that it still provides major scope for disagreements even within the tory party. All it takes is for a dozen or soon to dislike the direction of travel and put spanners in the works. The govt needs to define Brexit to both the party and country and if the party accepts it - then get on with it. otherwise or perhaps even with this I would not bet against a second GE before Brexit. It's been defined a 1000 times, we're leaving the EU ie the single market (to do anything else isn't leaving) while negotiating the best deal they can. Edited June 10, 2017 by hetrodoxly 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hetrodoxly Posted June 10, 2017 #604 Share Posted June 10, 2017 Another note worthy fact, Teresa May got 2,000,000 yes that's two million votes more than David Cameron did 2 years ago it could be argued she does have a bigger mandate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAyMO Posted June 10, 2017 #605 Share Posted June 10, 2017 (edited) Its not me you have to convince its the elected members of the tory party. Kenneth clarke speaking on election night made it clear that there was not a shared understanding of brexit within the party. in fact it could be argued that the reason the election was called was because not enough tory mps shared the same view on brexit as May did. Edited June 10, 2017 by RAyMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LV-426 Posted June 10, 2017 #606 Share Posted June 10, 2017 7 minutes ago, hetrodoxly said: Hindsight is a wonderful thing, lets face it the world and his dog thought she'd get a majority no one would have predicted the kids getting out of bed and the great unwashed falling for 'you can have anything' we are where we are (not much different a place than before the election) and need to make the best of it. This pretty much sums it up. Labour had nothing to lose in this election, and everything to gain. They managed to throw a huge spanner in the works by making promises they couldn't possibly keep, and capitalizing on May putting all her eggs in the Brexit basket, while paying lip service to traditional voting territory. It's indicative of how Corbyn would run the country - good for his idealistic views, not so good for the nation. If the Tories have half an ounce of sense now, they'll rally behind one leader. It should be May, but the knives are already out. Between her ambitious colleagues and the baying media, I suspect she won't last long, which means more turmoil and uncertainty for the country. I truly hope not, but I suspect we have a couple of rough years ahead now. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bee Posted June 10, 2017 #607 Share Posted June 10, 2017 18 minutes ago, hetrodoxly said: Hindsight is a wonderful thing, lets face it the world and his dog thought she'd get a majority no one would have predicted the kids getting out of bed and the great unwashed falling for 'you can have anything' we are where we are (not much different a place than before the election) and need to make the best of it. it's true hindsight is a wonderful thing - and we do need to make the best of it - but the Brexit position is weaker than it was, IMO, ( and that is a concern ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAyMO Posted June 10, 2017 #608 Share Posted June 10, 2017 1 minute ago, bee said: Brexit position is weaker than it was, IMO it is hard to see how it can realistically be seen in any other way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hetrodoxly Posted June 10, 2017 #609 Share Posted June 10, 2017 28 minutes ago, RAyMO said: Its not me you have to convince its the elected members of the tory party. Kenneth clarke speaking on election night made it clear that there was not a shared understanding of brexit within the party. in fact it could be argued that the reason the election was called was because not enough tory mps shared the same view on brexit as May did. When all the documents are signed hand shakings done and the world knows where the UK stands Ken Clark will still be saying the same, he's more remain than Mr McRemainer No1 remain road, Remania. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hetrodoxly Posted June 10, 2017 #610 Share Posted June 10, 2017 28 minutes ago, bee said: it's true hindsight is a wonderful thing - and we do need to make the best of it - but the Brexit position is weaker than it was, IMO, ( and that is a concern ) Your not wrong but it's not as bad as the Media and the opposition are portraying it to be, Corbyn could have won, when the dust settles and the 'responsible media' starts to examine Corbyn's promises and he's found out, people will start to realize how lucky we've been and how close to disaster the country came. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setton Posted June 10, 2017 #611 Share Posted June 10, 2017 An interesting read for those claiming Corbyn is as much a failure as May and should go: https://medium.com/@leebrown/jeremy-corbyn-just-made-history-with-the-greatest-increase-in-labours-vote-share-since-1945-192a8bc179ba Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevewinn Posted June 10, 2017 #612 Share Posted June 10, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Setton said: An interesting read for those claiming Corbyn is as much a failure as May and should go: https://medium.com/@leebrown/jeremy-corbyn-just-made-history-with-the-greatest-increase-in-labours-vote-share-since-1945-192a8bc179ba and he still didn't win. never seen so much praise for a loser, is this how the labour party is now defined. What do you hope happens now Setton, another general election in the Autumn? Edited June 10, 2017 by stevewinn 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setton Posted June 10, 2017 #613 Share Posted June 10, 2017 1 hour ago, stevewinn said: and he still didn't win. never seen so much praise for a loser, is this how the labour party is now defined. What do you hope happens now Setton, another general election in the Autumn? The reason he's getting so much praise is for the best improvement in the Labour party's support in seventy years. He started from so far behind in 2015, a win was never realistic in six weeks. Think of it this way, there are two companies, let's call them blue and red. Blue is worth 2 million, Red 1 million. The CEO of the Blue company manages to reduce that company's value by 100,000. The CEO of the Red company increases its value by 200,000. Which company is doing better and CEO would you rather have? As for a future election, I've already said I don't want to see another one. I'm quite happy to let the tories struggle through the next five years, unable to push through their more extreme policies. Either they make a success of Brexit now (we all win!) or they rightly take the blame for their actions and the Tories are out in 2022 or 2027. Whatever happens, the future's looking up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Commander Travis Posted June 10, 2017 #614 Share Posted June 10, 2017 "Right, so I've got one Strong & Stable, and one Coalition of Chaos. Now, the Strong & Stable is for you, Mr. Corbyn, I think I've got that right, and the coalition of Chaos is for you, Ms. May? Sign ''ere please." "No! curse you! It wasn't supposed to be this way! Aaaaaagggh my minions, they all let me down ... Strong! Stable! Stable! Strong! Brexit means Strong! Brexit means Stable! Strong! table! Table means Brexit! no! Aaaarrrgghh......" And sadly, no one ever saw anything of Ms. May ever again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Commander Travis Posted June 10, 2017 #615 Share Posted June 10, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, stevewinn said: and he still didn't win. never seen so much praise for a loser, is this how the labour party is now defined. What do you hope happens now Setton, another general election in the Autumn? do you realise how much you're making yourself look like the sourest of sour grapes losers in the Democratic party, do you know that? I mean, the sheer irony of saying "never seen so much praise for a loser", when you refuse to even admit that Ms. May failed utterly and was utterly humiliated and her lifelong career in politics, her ambitions and her lust for power were utterly crushed really defies understanding. Edited June 10, 2017 by Manfred von Dreidecker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setton Posted June 10, 2017 #616 Share Posted June 10, 2017 44 minutes ago, Manfred von Dreidecker said: "Right, so I've got one Strong & Stable, and one Coalition of Chaos. Now, the Strong & Stable is for you, Mr. Corbyn, I think I've got that right, and the coalition of Chaos is for you, Ms. May? Sign ''ere please." "No! curse you! It wasn't supposed to be this way! Aaaaaagggh my minions, they all let me down ... Strong! Stable! Stable! Strong! Brexit means Strong! Brexit means Stable! Strong! table! Table means Brexit! no! Aaaarrrgghh......" And sadly, no one ever saw anything of Ms. May ever again. No, no see it was the public's fault. Apparently we voted wrong: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/election-results-hung-parliament-tory-mp-voters-got-it-wrong-crispin-blunt-conservatives-exit-poll-a7781216.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Commander Travis Posted June 10, 2017 #617 Share Posted June 10, 2017 20 minutes ago, Setton said: No, no see it was the public's fault. Apparently we voted wrong: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/election-results-hung-parliament-tory-mp-voters-got-it-wrong-crispin-blunt-conservatives-exit-poll-a7781216.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Commander Travis Posted June 10, 2017 #618 Share Posted June 10, 2017 "It follows calls for the Ms May to resign from the Labour leader, Jeremy Corbyn, " ? i didn't know she belonged to the Labour leader. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevewinn Posted June 10, 2017 #619 Share Posted June 10, 2017 1 hour ago, Manfred von Dreidecker said: do you realise how much you're making yourself look like the sourest of sour grapes losers in the Democratic party, do you know that? I mean, the sheer irony of saying "never seen so much praise for a loser", when you refuse to even admit that Ms. May failed utterly and was utterly humiliated and her lifelong career in politics, her ambitions and her lust for power were utterly crushed really defies understanding. Sour grapes how do you make that out, im on the winning side, so a bit strange to say sour grapes, I'd say on the contrary, I didn't want a Labour win, i didn't want Corbyn as Prime minister. = Result. if that's sour grapes in your eyes then so be it, the Bonus was the SNP losing seats as well, listen, if someone said to me before the election, Theresa May is NOT going get a landslide and will in fact lose her majority, But remain the Government and the SNP take a kicking i'd take what's happened on that fact alone, saving the Union is above any sort of allegiance i'd have for any political party. in fact i'd never voted for the Tory party in my life, and before that i voted UKIP, and before that Labour twice, im a floating voter im not partisan. i vote for what i consider to benefit the country at the time of elections. and guess what once the Tories mess up and they will because that's how it goes i'll be voting for someone else. Corbyn went to the country put his case and lost. I've said a good few times already Theresa May took a gamble and messed it up, But at the end of the day, we still have a Tory Government and not a Labour one. and that fact is killing a lot of people, including your good self. - i've never seen so much praise for a loser or runner up, Okay, Corbyn run a good race but he still finished a very distant second. general elections are a results business, a business of being elected and governing. praise corbyn, praise the strategy praise it all till the cows come home he's still not prime minister and labour are not in government. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hetrodoxly Posted June 10, 2017 #620 Share Posted June 10, 2017 1 hour ago, Manfred von Dreidecker said: "Right, so I've got one Strong & Stable, and one Coalition of Chaos. Now, the Strong & Stable is for you, Mr. Corbyn, I think I've got that right, and the coalition of Chaos is for you, Ms. May? Sign ''ere please." "No! curse you! It wasn't supposed to be this way! Aaaaaagggh my minions, they all let me down ... Strong! Stable! Stable! Strong! Brexit means Strong! Brexit means Stable! Strong! table! Table means Brexit! no! Aaaarrrgghh......" And sadly, no one ever saw anything of Ms. May ever again. How is Corbyn strong and stable? he's not been tested in governing the country, if the vote had gone the other way to get the SNP support he'd have had to dismantle the union, there would have been Chaos. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setton Posted June 10, 2017 #621 Share Posted June 10, 2017 2 minutes ago, hetrodoxly said: How is Corbyn strong and stable? he's not been tested in governing the country, if the vote had gone the other way to get the SNP support he'd have had to dismantle the union, there would have been Chaos. Whereas what we have now is oh-so-stable... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevewinn Posted June 10, 2017 #622 Share Posted June 10, 2017 (edited) 7 minutes ago, hetrodoxly said: How is Corbyn strong and stable? he's not been tested in governing the country, if the vote had gone the other way to get the SNP support he'd have had to dismantle the union, there would have been Chaos. indeed, and the fact if Labour wanted to form a government they'd have to go in coalition with every other party. imagine how strong and stable a Lab, Lib, SNP, Green & Sinn Fein coalition would have been, total chaos like we've never witnessed before. but Corbyn run a good campaign apparently biggest increase since the war. Give him a blue peter badge. Edited June 10, 2017 by stevewinn 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hetrodoxly Posted June 10, 2017 #623 Share Posted June 10, 2017 2 minutes ago, Setton said: Whereas what we have now is oh-so-stable... OK explain what's wrong tell me what's going to happen, the pound did slump at the exit polls but returned when the results came in, i'm all ears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hetrodoxly Posted June 10, 2017 #624 Share Posted June 10, 2017 May's biggest mistake was thinking she could get away with telling the truth, some people would call it arrogant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Commander Travis Posted June 10, 2017 #625 Share Posted June 10, 2017 29 minutes ago, stevewinn said: Sour grapes how do you make that out, im on the winning side, so a bit strange to say sour grapes, let me try to explain it again. Ms. May called this election because she wanted to have an enormous majority so she could stamp her authority on parliament and tell the EU who was boss so she could get Brexit on her terms. She didn't get any of those things. Instead she had her majority wiped out completely and made herself the most disliked Conservative leader since... well, there's been a lot of competition there, but certainly she's surely about as popular now as T. Blair was in his final years, both with her own party and with the nation as a whole. The Conservative vote came almost entirely from those whose hands are physically incapable of drawing a cross (X) alongside the name of anyone with anything other than (Conservative) next to it. Now she's only able to govern (or she tells herself she's still able to govern) by grovelling to a bunch of bowler-hatted hard-right Northern irish bigots. She's failed in everything. How is that possibly the winning side? She's not in Government, she's not in control, she has no authority. You can understand that can't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now