War & Rumors of War

[ellapenella]

1 hour ago, Farmer77 said:

18 Times Donald Trump Said the U.S. Shouldn't Bomb Syria 

In my own perspective of what happened is that America was not aggressive towards the Syrian people but we were aggressive towards removing the chemicals from Assad that were not suppose to be there, remember Assad said they were gone. Maybe you can find out how many X's Assad said that  he had no chemicals.

[aquatus1]

23 hours ago, Ellapennella said:

And if we would have called Obama a monkey how would that turn out?

Pretty bad, considering that "monkey", has had racist connotations towards black people for quite some time now.  If you use a racist epithet on the race it targets, don't be surprised that people come down on you harder than when you just use what is a normal, let alone a mild, insult on anyone else.

[Farmer77]

Just now, Ellapennella said:

In my own perspective of what happened is that America was not aggressive towards the Syrian people but we were aggressive towards removing the chemicals from Assad that were not suppose to be there, remember Assad said they were gone. Maybe you can find out how many X's Assad said that  he had no chemicals.

Im not anywhere near convinced he did have chemicals recently or that he is to blame for the recent chemical weapon attack. 

Regardless it doesnt change the fact that this is yet another issue that trump duped the American voters over. 

Edited April 23, 2017 by Farmer77

[ellapenella]

3 minutes ago, aquatus1 said:

Pretty bad, considering that "monkey", has had racist connotations towards black people for quite some time now.  If you use a racist epithet on the race it targets, don't be surprised that people come down on you harder than when you just use what is a normal, let alone a mild, insult on anyone else.

 We are in some serious times . Can you see what you're doing?

[aquatus1]

Not as much as I should be, but as much as I can.

[ellapenella]

4 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

Im not anywhere near convinced he did have chemicals or that he is to blame for the recent chemical weapon attack. 

Regardless it doesnt change the fact that this is yet another issue that trump duped the American voters over. 

Did Assad deny that they were his chemicals there?

What changes? Who is giving Intel to Trump? 

I see it as one side is saying one thing about the chemicals and the rebels are saying another about it but Trump just took the chemicals away from them both.

Edited April 23, 2017 by Ellapennella
typo

[Farmer77]

Just now, Ellapennella said:

Did Assad deny that they were his chemicals there?

Yes, categorically 

Just now, Ellapennella said:

What changes? Who is giving Intel to Trump? 

The link I posted earlier showed trumps own words saying he wouldn't and America shouldnt bomb syria 

Just now, Ellapennella said:

I see it as one side is saying one thing about the chemicals and the rebels are saying another about it but Trump just took the chemicals away from they both.

How is that? How did trump remove anything from anyone? He lobbed some missiles at an airbase, without sending anyone in to secure the weapons.  Thats especially true if its the rebels who have the chemicals, he didnt attack them. 

[ellapenella]

Just now, Farmer77 said:

Yes, categorically 

The link I posted earlier showed trumps own words saying he wouldn't and America shouldnt bomb syria 

How is that? How did trump remove anything from anyone? He lobbed some missiles at an airbase, without sending anyone in to secure the weapons.  Thats especially true if its the rebels who have the chemicals, he didnt attack them. 

We all know what he said about Syria but we all do not have the Intel that he now has.

[ellapenella]

10 minutes ago, aquatus1 said:

Not as much as I should be, but as much as I can.

I'm not asking about your vision I'm asking about your awareness.

[Farmer77]

Just now, Ellapennella said:

We all know what he said about Syria but we all do not have the Intel that he now has.

So he didnt attack that airbase because of the chemical attack but did so because of intelligence that he now has? So by that logic Obama was a great president because we didnt know all the intel that he had. 

[aquatus1]

I am telling you about my awareness.  I haven't said a word about my vision.

[ellapenella]

Just now, Farmer77 said:

So he didnt attack that airbase because of the chemical attack but did so because of intelligence that he now has? So by that logic Obama was a great president because we didnt know all the intel that he had. 

I gave you my perspective on it. You keep trying to make it into something else.

[ellapenella]

2 minutes ago, aquatus1 said:

I am telling you about my awareness.  I haven't said a word about my vision.

Oh.I was just wanting to be certain I understood what exactly you meant or if you were playing around.

eta

me too, I can only try to figure things out the best i can too.

Edited April 23, 2017 by Ellapennella

[Farmer77]

Just now, Ellapennella said:

I gave you my perspective on it. You keep trying to make it into something else.

Your perspective appears to be that it doesnt matter what trump does, just what he said on the campaign trail. Im just not able to wrap my brain around that kind of blind loyalty. 

[aquatus1]

Oh.I was just wanting to be certain I understood what exactly you meant or if you were playing around.

Unfortunately, I am not.  I know that you personally have a rather pronounced hero-worship for Trump, but for me, he is the reason why I am spending my spare time (and some work time) helping a young women not get deported to a country she has never lived in without her children.  He is the reason why a couple of churches have consulted me in regards to building secret shelters and escape tunnels for their parishioners to avoid federal law enforcement.  He is the reason why chances of deals with Japan have gone down the toilet.  He is the reason why so many of our allies are unsure about our countries reliability anymore.  To me, Trump isn't a theoretical danger.  The things he has actually done, I already have to deal with in my daily life.

Now, way back when he was elected, I suggested that a Trump presidency would result in an American civil war in his first year.  I have since moderated my view based on the general lack of respect he is receiving, however I have not yet completely ruled it out.

[Einsteinium]

7 hours ago, AnchorSteam said:

Beijing is cutting the N'orks off economically and massing troops on the border to give Kim the Blob a very serious message

They have yet to take any serious economic action against NK. The cuts they have made are more for show and lack much substance, cutting off luxury goods for example hardly harms the NK economy.

Massing of troops on the border is similar posturing, appeasing Trump and creating the appearance of action when there is no real substance behind it. It is a show. Trump is a showman and China is smart enough to understand that and put on a show for him so he can say, "look what I did" while in reality he really didn't do anything of substance.

Trump is all bark, no bite. Bombing the Syrian air base? The jets he took out were old relics that were no threat. Russia was warned before hand and they almost certainly warned the Syrians who moved the important stuff out of the way. Causualties were unusually low all things considered. Again, this was a show, the great showman put on a show to make him look tough but the substance behind it just is not there. I fully expect this to be his foreign policy going forward. Make us look tough, talk tough, but without much substance behind it. This is exactly what Trump has done his entire life. He has always overstated his wealth, always has gilded things in gold, always has cared more about appearances then actual truths. 

That is how he got elected, he made himself look like someone who would fight for the common man, who 'said it like it is', he just gave the people what they wanted and now we see plainly that he was not serious about any of that. Hence why he is pretty much reversing his stance and doing the opposite of just about every single thing he said he was going to do.

[Farmer77]

Just now, Einsteinium said:

That is how he got elected, he made himself look like someone who would fight for the common man, who 'said it like it is', he just gave the people what they wanted and now we see plainly that he was not serious about any of that. Hence why he is pretty much reversing his stance and doing the opposite of just about every single thing he said he was going to do.

It seems the campaign promises are fading and we're slowly moving back to the same old same old but he's got an R. next to his name as opposed to Obama's D so that makes it all ok to the very people he blatantly lied to on the campaign trail. 

[Einsteinium]

2 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

It seems the campaign promises are fading and we're slowly moving back to the same old same old but he's got an R. next to his name as opposed to Obama's D so that makes it all ok to the very people he blatantly lied to on the campaign trail. 

Isn't that something? Both sides are blind to the truth of that it would seem. Anyone who questions it must be 'from the other side' to them.

 

[Gromdor]

Swinging back to the topic a bit, I do think there will be war.  I get the gut feeling that Trump desires to be remembered as a war time president.  His actions towards Syria, Iran, Afghanistan, North Korea, etc.. is just him fishing for a good reason to start it.  It doesn't really help that he has the war hawks whispering into his ear, either.

[AnchorSteam]

4 hours ago, Einsteinium said:

They have yet to take any serious economic action against NK. The cuts they have made are more for show and lack much substance, cutting off luxury goods for example hardly harms the NK economy.

Have you ever heard of Coal?

Hardly a luxury good, unless you like the smell of the stuff.

 

4 hours ago, Einsteinium said:

Trump is all bark, no bite. Bombing the Syrian air base? The jets he took out were old relics that were no threat.

Really? What types were they, and how many?

And honestly, how sophisticated do planes have to be to bomb the crap out of a bunch of scum-bag terrorists that don't even understand the basic reasons why you have to lead your target when shooting at things that fly?!

4 hours ago, Einsteinium said:

That is how he got elected, he made himself ...

Like I have sad before, some people are so consumed with hate vs. Trump that they can't see anything beyond that. If an Asteroid was about to kill us all and Trump could stop it by pushing a button, people like you would try to stop him because it would hurt you in the next election. 

Grow up.

[AnchorSteam]

5 hours ago, aquatus1 said:

Unfortunately, I am not.  I know that you personally have a rather pronounced hero-worship for Trump

I thought that trash-talking people on a personal level was Verboten around here?

5 hours ago, aquatus1 said:

, but for me, he is the reason why I am spending my spare time (and some work time) helping a young women not get deported to a country she has never lived in without her children. 

Baloney. The dreamers are safe, Trump just said so this week.

5 hours ago, aquatus1 said:

He is the reason why a couple of churches have consulted me in regards to building secret shelters and escape tunnels for their parishioners to avoid federal law enforcement. 

Oh, consulted, eh?

I really couldn't care less what the Far-Left Community organizations disguised as Churches are up to, but it is interesting to know that they are preparing an insurgency against the US Federal Govt.

5 hours ago, aquatus1 said:

He is the reason why chances of deals with Japan have gone down the toilet.  He is the reason why so many of our allies are unsure about our countries reliability anymore. 

So a few shady deals and corrupt snake-oil salesmen are being flushed down the toilet, must we care?

5 hours ago, aquatus1 said:

Now, way back when he was elected, I suggested that a Trump presidency would result in an American civil war in his first year.  I have since moderated my view based on the general lack of respect he is receiving, however I have not yet completely ruled it out.

Of course you had to change your prediction, it was just as silly as the predictions that Global Whiners have been getting wrong for over a Generation now!

From the sound of it, you are one of the many people who would WANT a Civil War here, and are in fact preparing to start it. 

[Farmer77]

Looks like pudgy kim is calling the trumpsters bluff : Volleyball Over, North Koreans Go Back to Work at Nuclear Site, Analysts Say 

 

Gotta wonder if he figures Trump's still confused as to where his armada is going 

[AnchorSteam]

8 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

Yes after spending years saying and in fact campaigning on the promise that he wouldnt do such things. Trump flip flop #375 thus far 

Yes, and I oppose it, but it still does not change the fact that Obama dropped the ball and Trump picked it up.

THAT is what I was replying to, and if you want to skip past any of Obama's failures to criticize Trump for doing what YOUR SIDE wanted to do all along, then I would say a credibility gap the size of the Grand Canyon is opening up. 

8 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

A whole lot of assumption there. I see china amassing troops on the border as a proactive measure to deal with the humanitarian fallout from Trumps "dude hold my beer" diplomacy. 

No assumption at all.

Looking at the facts here, when was the last time China moved troops to the North Korean border to make them reign their lunacy in? Every decade in the past has seen the N'orks attacking, killing and kidnapping South Koreans, Japanese and Americans.

This time, things are different, and you can call it anything you want to try to kill off internal support for the US Govt and Trump's effectiveness in his policy, but the facts don't change, only poll results in an already biased media. 

8 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

Thats a cop out , and a really lame one at that. As mentioned above Trump himself spent 4 years criticizing Obama for doing what he just did. There are legitimate reasons to oppose the decision to spend millions lobbing rockets on an airbase in a foreign nation which IS AN ALLY IN THE FIGHT AGAINST ISIS and poses no threat to our nation. 

Yup, all of that is true.

But what about today, current events and the reality on the ground all over the flash-points of the modern world. 

I am not sure if I believe it myself, but it does appear that the raid has made everyone stand up and listen, and see Trump as something other than the kind of blow-hard that came before him. 

I am just going to scratch my head and sit back for a while, maybe give it a few months, and then start commenting on this again once the results of all of this. And why should I not? These things do take time to resolve, and shutting out all the B.S. coming out of the Muddle East for a while can only be a GOOD thing. 

[Farmer77]

Just now, AnchorSteam said:

THAT is what I was replying to, and if you want to skip past any of Obama's failures to criticize Trump for doing what YOUR SIDE wanted to do all along, then I would say a credibility gap the size of the Grand Canyon is opening up. 

First and foremost im not a democrat and I never supported Obama. Further on though why this insane urgency to take out kim all of a sudden? I find it odd and confusing that trump (and his followers) say that Obama couldnt do anything right. Yet rather than redouble the negotiating efforts in a mature and healthy manner (because if obama couldnt do anything right surely that includes negotiating for peace right?) he escalates to saber rattling right off the bat. 

Just now, AnchorSteam said:

I am not sure if I believe it myself, but it does appear that the raid has made everyone stand up and listen, and see Trump as something other than the kind of blow-hard that came before him.

No what made so many happy is that by doing what he did he was acting exactly like the blowhard that came before him. A very very sad commentary on American society IMO. 

 

Just now, AnchorSteam said:

I am just going to scratch my head and sit back for a while, maybe give it a few months, and then start commenting on this again once the results of all of this. And why should I not? These things do take time to resolve, and shutting out all the B.S. coming out of the Muddle East for a while can only be a GOOD thing. 

That amigo can only be good for the soul! LOL 

[+Hammerclaw]

When bartering, the best strategy is to always ask for more than you are willing to settle for.