Theism and Atheism Vs Agnosticism

[Conspirologist 35]

Why people need theism or atheism, when there is agnosticism? Theists believe that gods exist, atheists believe that gods don't exist. Agnostics know that there is no proof for both sides, therefore get busy with something useful, instead of wasting time by talking about gods.

Edited May 4, 2017 by Conspirologist

[eight bits 13,784]

Mustn't confuse us aggies with "apatheists," those who don't care about the Question of God. Another member will be along shortly to explain all that to you.

Welcome aboard!

[XenoFish 108,242]

17 minutes ago, Conspirologist said:

Agnostics know that there is no proof for both sides, therefore get busy with something useful, instead of wasting time by talking about gods.

Theist-Atheist (this is a god/there isn't a god)

Agnostic-Apatheist (there might be a god/then again I don't care)

Apatheism is basically a form of agnosticism but instead of saying there might be a god, you just don't care either way.

Edited May 4, 2017 by XenoFish
Well I didn't see that move coming.

[Clarakore 3,454]

17 minutes ago, Conspirologist said:

Why people need theism or atheism, when there is agnosticism? Theists believe that gods exists, atheists believe that gods don't exist. Agnostics know that there is no proof for both sides, therefore get busy with something useful, instead of wasting time by talking about gods.

Henotheism, kathenoism, polytheism, and even syncretism have no time to talk "bad" about the gods and godesses.

Usefulness on the other hand is whatever works for self and the group, even if just atheism or monotheism dressed up as cynicsm, which at least allows numbing comfort to dull the pain even as it creates more.

Like your view though of no need to argue and rather let us get it on so usefulness means greatest good for all existence...or something like that.

[Davros of Skaro 9,125]

Why have Chocolate, and Vanilla ice cream when you have Strawberry.?

[eight bits 13,784]

Xeno

That's interesting. Why wouldn't an atheist be just as likely not to give a damn as an agnostic?

I'm an a-Easterbunnyist (a recently salient character) and an apethet-Easterbunnyist, as well. (OK, I really like Cadbury caramel chocolate eggs, but that's because of the caramel and chocolate. If they made caramel and chocolate maypoles instead, I'd feel the same way about those. Mmm, maypole ...)

I'm not as confident that there'd be many theist apatheists, because I think it's difficult to believe that "somebody's there," anybody really, and not to care about them, even just a little, even if only now-and-then. (I know, there are theists with "impersonal gods," but typical theists profess somebody with a personality - often three personalities, with a mother figure thrown in for good measure.)

[third_eye 50,945]

I think I am gonna try my hand at being a chocolate covered God ... hope I don't melt before the devotees arrive ...

~

[XenoFish 108,242]

3 hours ago, eight bits said:

That's interesting. Why wouldn't an atheist be just as likely not to give a damn as an agnostic? Who says they can't?

The position I'm going from is that I don't know, I don't care it is not a hard stance. Which is kind of the opposite of an agnostic, because maybe is a part of there belief. Most atheist are NO! there is no god. You could very well just tag on Indifferent to both Atheism and Agnosticism to get the same effect. One of those would mean, there is no god and the question of it's existence doesn't matter, or there might be a god but it's existence doesn't matter. The problem is the definition of a "god". Which tosses us into the playground of Ignosticism. Since we can not truly define god any discussion of it's existence is trivial. 

[eight bits 13,784]

Xeno

Mea culpa ... sometimes I have trouble discerning when you're being legislative, and when you're describing yourself.

That said, arriving at suitable definitions of nebulous concepts is a worthy goal of conversation all by itself. I do approeciate that if somebody both lacks a firm opinion about something and is clueless as to what the something actually is, then they might also find it challenging to muster much interest in the something.

[Rlyeh 17,597]

15 hours ago, Conspirologist said:

Why people need theism or atheism, when there is agnosticism? Theists believe that gods exist, atheists believe that gods don't exist. Agnostics know that there is no proof for both sides, therefore get busy with something useful, instead of wasting time by talking about gods.

Why do you need to invoke a false dichotomy? Perhaps you should be more busy paying attention to what you wrote.

[GlitterRose 26,642]

12 hours ago, davros of skaro said:

Why have Chocolate, and Vanilla ice cream when you have Strawberry.?

Or you could have all three.

[GlitterRose 26,642]

It's not that people "need" either of these. They just happen to feel strongly one way or the other. Or in Xeno's case...they just don't care either way.

[GlitterRose 26,642]

I will not tolerate certainty in this house!

[eight bits 13,784]

Chaos

Funny vid.

I like "Joseph Campbell's Thanksgiving Prayer."

Don't thank God for the turkey; thank the turkey.

[XenoFish 108,242]

This thread made me think of something that hadn't hit my mind in a while. I've heard some christians say that even if god doesn't exist, it's best to be safe. Which made me wonder, What if their god is the wrong one? And the real god is looking at them like WTF?????

[XenoFish 108,242]

3 hours ago, eight bits said:

Xenon

Mea culpa ... sometimes I have trouble discerning when you're being legislative, and when you're describing yourself.

That said, arriving at suitable definitions of nebulous concepts is a worthy goal of conversation all by itself. I do approeciate that if somebody both lacks a firm opinion about something and is clueless as to what the something actually is, then they might also find it challenging to muster much interest in the something.

While this is true we also do not have an actual god to measure against. Only the conceptual version based on peoples assumption of what god is supposed to be. It's almost like saying the sun god is better than any other god. You have zero way of knowing. 

[Only_ 2,068]

Agnosticism suggest to me ignorance. Hence, I can only conclude that the material cosmos is ignorance-causing. Why? That's where the gnostics have a solution. The material cosmos is the result of a primordial error on the part of a supra-cosmic, supremely divine being. That ignorant emanation trapped us all here in an imperfect Universe.

Edited May 5, 2017 by TruthSeeker_

[XenoFish 108,242]

1 hour ago, TruthSeeker_ said:

Agnosticism suggest to me ignorance. Hence, I can only conclude that the material cosmos is ignorance-causing. Why? That's where the gnostics have a solution. The material cosmos is the result of a primordial error on the part of a supra-cosmic, supremely divine being. That ignorant emanation trapped us all here in an imperfect Universe.

If you have actual proof share with the class. If not you're just spouting made up stuff by people who "think" they know what's going on.

[Kismit 13,067]

1 hour ago, TruthSeeker_ said:

Agnosticism suggest to me ignorance. Hence, I can only conclude that the material cosmos is ignorance-causing. Why? That's where the gnostics have a solution. The material cosmos is the result of a primordial error on the part of a supra-cosmic, supremely divine being. That ignorant emanation trapped us all here in an imperfect Universe.

I have to say I identify as Agnostic and I have no idea what this is...

Here is my spin on it. 

I do not believe in a sentient God who meddles in the lives of people, nor do I believe we have set chosen paths, lessons to learn or that I need to fulfil a designated amount of adoration to apease a jealous and sometimes vengful diety.

But I do believe that life itself is a gift and an honour worth treating as God. That spark that marks creation itself. Undefinable.

That's Agnosticism.

[Only_ 2,068]

14 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

If you have actual proof share with the class. If not you're just spouting made up stuff by people who "think" they know what's going on.

What proof? Physical proof based on cosmic laws?

The gnostic man does not attain the knowledge that awakens him from these dreams by cognition but through revelatory experience, and this knowledge is not information but a modification of the sensate being.

Edited May 5, 2017 by TruthSeeker_

[XenoFish 108,242]

2 minutes ago, TruthSeeker_ said:

What proof? Scientific proof?

The gnostic man does not attain the knowledge that awakens him from these dreams by cognition but through revelatory experience, and this knowledge is not information but a modification of the sensate being.

So he reaches a point where is subconscious has been so saturated by a spiritual belief he has a "revelation." Okay we'll just go with that. 

[Podo 7,766]

All these definitions flying around, I no longer know what my manufacturer's label should say. My thought is that there is no reason to believe in a deity because there is and never has been any evidence supporting the existence of one. As such, I don't really need to have any more of a stance on it for the same reason that I don't have a stance on fairies, unicorns, or the flying spaghetti monster; there's no reason to believe these things, so obviously I don't. If that somehow changed, I'd change my tune. But it hasn't.

So what does that make me? I kinda always assumed that'd be atheist, but after this thread I'm not so sure. I mean...I don't really care, since my views aren't going to change based on the label. But I'm curious where others would place me.

[XenoFish 108,242]

10 minutes ago, Podo said:

But I'm curious where others would place me.

In the same boat as I am. An apatheist like myself. Because if evidence does present itself I'll change my tune but in general I don't care. Welcome to the club we have cookies and pie, but you don't get pie that's mine.

[Sherapy 30,780]

14 hours ago, XenoFish said:

The position I'm going from is that I don't know, I don't care it is not a hard stance. Which is kind of the opposite of an agnostic, because maybe is a part of there belief. Most atheist are NO! there is no god. You could very well just tag on Indifferent to both Atheism and Agnosticism to get the same effect. One of those would mean, there is no god and the question of it's existence doesn't matter, or there might be a god but it's existence doesn't matter. The problem is the definition of a "god". Which tosses us into the playground of Ignosticism. Since we can not truly define god any discussion of it's existence is trivial. 

I am the agnostic formerly known as an atheist who finds the subject of god interesting, and enjoys hearing people's thoughts on the subject. To say the least it brings out people's passion and some really profound thinking, whether we agree or disagree. 

Edited May 6, 2017 by Sherapy

[Sherapy 30,780]

8 hours ago, ChaosRose said:

I will not tolerate certainty in this house!

Ha ha ha ha ha good one!