Trump fires FBI Director Comey

[Einsteinium]

11 hours ago, F3SS said:

We have an exponentially larger economy, more resources, a bigger military, likely more intelligence yet they pull our strings? That's a crock.

You really think this? A small group of terrorists with nothing more than box cutters were able to take down the world trade center on 9/11. Have you been so focused on the USA that you have not been paying attention to what is going on in Russia or other nations? Only a fool would think that we are invincible and our system impenetrable to outside influence by a less powerful nation.

 

Do I personally think that Trump colluded with the Russians? No. I think Trump is merely incompetent and narcissistic and the Russians figured he would throw us into a bit of chaos and take our attention away from what he has been doing in his sphere of influence.

[Einsteinium]

15 hours ago, preacherman76 said:

These people GAVE DRUG CARTELS ASSAULT WEAPONS! 

Yes, they did, and they should be held accountable for doing so and if a crime was committed someone should go to prison for it.

However, this was just another one of many shady things our govt. has been involved in ever since right after WW2 at least. By your statement, we should also hold Reagan accountable for his CIA drug running program to finance the Nicaraguan resistance groups. God knows how many innocent Nicaraguan people died as a result of that war and God knows how many Americans lives were ruined by all that cocaine that was essentially allowed to flow into the country. Let us hold all of our leaders to a high standard shall we? Including Mr. Trump.

[Einsteinium]

15 hours ago, preacherman76 said:

that's cause he isn't involved in any real scandals

Bahahahahaha! Now THAT statement is some true fake news.

[WoIverine]

Never underestimate DJT. All memes, scoffing, and snide remarks aside, the man is brilliant in many ways. The second you count him out, he will blindside you.

Edited May 12, 2017 by WoIverine

[Einsteinium]

15 hours ago, RavenHawk said:

And the low information voter is falling for it.

Really? Because I work in a highly competitive engineering firm in the midwest in a state that voted Trump and I am surrounded by people who are above average intelligence and very engaged in government and stay informed about what is going on and the consensus I hear all the time is that Trump is unfit for the office of president, doesn't know what he is doing, and is dangerous for our country. I also meet a lot of intelligent foreigners for my job and though I try to not bring up politics myself they sometimes bring it up and what I hear from them is the same thing. Some of them have told me that they feel sorry for us that Trump is our president.

The only people I meet who still support Trump are low skill blue collar type workers- temporary workers, assembly line workers, farmers, mostly people without a college education, hardly the highly informed voter. To me that is what I think of when I think about Trump supporters because that is what I have seen consistently in the area that I live in.

[Einsteinium]

15 hours ago, RavenHawk said:

Who are most illegals?  They are the poor masses.  They bring poverty, disease, and crime with them.  These are things that can overwhelm a nation.  These are people that come from a way of life that is alien from ours and you think that they should just settle right into this new way of life problem free?  That is a difficult thing to do especially for a group that may not be motivated enough to be here.  En masse, there is no encouragement or direction to assimilate.  And assimilation is critical for the stability of a nation.  Without it a nation cannot exist

People said this same exact thing about the German immigrants and the Italian immigrants over a hundred years ago and they were proven to be wrong. It seems that this idea is based in fear and misunderstanding which I will NOT give in to. It is too easy to let fear and misunderstanding cloud one's judgement. These are by and large human beings seeking a better life for themselves and their children. I refuse to marginalize and stomp on them, that NEVER works out well and those that perpetuate that mindset are continuously proven to be wrong again and again throughout history.

Illegal immigration was dropping before Trump took office while Obama was still POTUS, without a wall, and without the hateful rhetoric. Never treat people as just problems to be disposed of, that NEVER has ever worked out well.

[Gromdor]

Huh, now Trump is tweeting that he might have recorded the conversations between himself and Comey and is threatening to use them if Comey says anything negative.........   http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-threatens-retaliation-against-comey-warns-he-may-cancel-press-briefings/ar-BBB3LPR?ocid=spartanntp

For a guy complaining so much about wiretapping..... Ah never mind....

 

Edited May 12, 2017 by Gromdor

[Dark_Grey]

Looks like it's time to dive back in.

19 hours ago, Einsteinium said:

My opinion is that all of those things are simply bad idea's. I could certainly be wrong, but to say that all of my opinions have been 'debunked' is a bit of a stretch.

They have been, you just haven't done the required reading yet. Judging from your posts over the last few pages of this thread, that is self-evident. I'm sorry you missed Wednesday's class, but lucky for you the lectures and discussions were all recorded. You can find them here:

UM Forums: Politics

I'm 50/50 on whether or not you will actually go through the threads and get to the bottom of the dangers of illegal immigration, the effectiveness of "the wall" as both an idea and as a physical structure, Brexit has it's own mega-thread detailing the pros and cons, etc. Now, I can see you have ~1500 posts over 5 years so clearly you aren't super active on the forums, at least as a poster. What I'm getting at is this; the discussions have already been had, enough so that each topic has it's own thread. The onus isn't on me to rehash every argument because those discussions already happened. I can tell you how each story ends but it would be a waste of time to lay out all the arguments leading up to it, again.

19 hours ago, Einsteinium said:

The wall? Again in my opinion it is a stupid idea, to say that my opinion on that is debunked makes not sense, given that the wall has not been built yet to show whether or not it was a good or bad idea. Once the wall is built (if it ever actually is built) then my opinion can be tested, until then you cannot claim it is a debunked opinion.

Oddly enough, we can. You see, "the wall" is as symbolic as it will be massive.

WashingtonTimes: Illegal Immigration Down 67%

Quote

Trump’s comments on the decline in illegal immigration were corroborated by Politifact earlier this month, his statements on the issue receiving a “True” rating. The website states, “Trump said illegal immigration on the U.S.-Mexico border is ‘the lowest in 17 years.’ Border Patrol data support Trump’s claim. In March, Border Patrol recorded 12,193 apprehensions at the Southwest border, the lowest in at least 17 years.”

A Democratic, open-borders President is not much of a deterrent to organized crime or welfare leeches. Thankfully, the MSM has done a lot of Trump's job for him by spreading immense fear and savage rumors regarding his immigration polices. Friends tell friends, family tells family and suddenly illegals are much more apprehensive to even attempt crossing over. Now, this can't be attributed solely to "the wall" but it is definitely a factor. ICE ramping up deportations (doing their job,) Trump's public image as painted by the Liberal media and promises of a giant, impenetrable wall have all contributed to this massive drop in illegals. Can't believe it's only been a few months!

Quote

Illegal immigration? I just don't see it as a huge problem in and of itself, it is good for us economically, they don't take jobs that American citizens usually want, and the majority of them are not criminals. Yes we have some very bad people that come across the border, but we also have some very bad people who are born right here as well,

You will have to explain how it is good for us economically. Are we talking about tax-paying illegals? They take jobs Americans don't want because those jobs are deliberately underpaid. I can't raise a family on $5/hour so why bother applying? That's a very loose example but you get the gist. As for the criminal element, the majority of illegals are probably not criminals because the majority of human beings are not criminals. However - allowing gangs, rapists, thugs and otherwise to cross the border simply because "we also have bad people" is a terrible argument. We should increase the number of criminals because we already have criminals? What? If you find mold in your bathroom, you don't stop using bleach until the mold is gone.

Quote

this irrational fear of immigrants has been 'debunked' over and over again throughout history in various corners of the globe at various times. "Americans" used to hate the German immigrants, the Italians, on and on, I just don't see justification for the hatred and fear, just politics and manipulation.

I forgot that European immigrants came from countries run by drug cartels. If you don't "see the justification", you simply haven't been informed (yet).

UM Thread: MS-13 Gang Violence Increasing

Besides gangs and assault, another major problem is vehicle fatalities. Uninsured illegal immigrants with little or no driving experience (or license,) get behind the wheel of a car and are not accountable to the State or fellow drivers. Then you end up with pages and pages of these stories:

Immigrant charged in crash was deported 5 times, family says victim’s death ‘could have been prevented’
Illegal immigrant suspected in fatal car crash was deported eight times
Two Illegal Immigrants Arrested after Fleeing Deadly Car Crash

What address can the Cops go to to find these guys? What database can they search? Note that these are 3 examples of thousands that I just picked for sake of argument. Note also how many times these illegals are deported for crimes due to over-lenient, Liberal policies.

To be clear, I don't hate immigrants. I love Westernized, assimilated immigrants. I really do! Many Hindus and Sheiks come here legally, learn English and start businesses. That helps our economy. Chinese and Koreans are great for that as well. My problem is with the 10 illegal families in an illegal basement suite, soaking up tax dollars and not being accountable to anyone. It's not like America is a "closed borders" country, you can apply for citizenship no matter what your race or creed. Just ask all the LEGAL Mexicans who voted for Trump to keep illegals out.

Finally, you have to put American immigration policy in context. Do you like Canada? How about Norway? They are generally considered among the friendliest and most welcoming nations, right? This has everything to do with border control. You can't get in to Canada if you have so much as a drunk driving charge yet no one considers Canada to be xenophobic. That's because strict borders make polite nations!! It's not rocket science: keep the riff-raff out, enjoy a stable, cohesive society.

I spent more time than I should have on this post. Everything you need to know is in the archives. The Google searches have done, the data compiled and conclusions reached. If you want more in depth discussion, it's all there mate.

[Dark_Grey]

36 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

Huh, now Trump is tweeting that he might have recorded the conversations between himself and Comey and is threatening to use them if Comey says anything negative.........   http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-threatens-retaliation-against-comey-warns-he-may-cancel-press-briefings/ar-BBB3LPR?ocid=spartanntp

For a guy complaining so much about wiretapping..... Ah never mind....

To be fair, Comey told Trump 3 times he was not under investigation.

Quote

"I greatly appreciate you informing me, on three separate occasions, that I am not under investigation," Trump wrote in a letter to Comey that was then released to reporters. "I nevertheless concur with the judgment of the Department of Justice that you are not able to effectively lead the bureau."

Quote

"I said, ‘If it’s possible would you let me know am I under investigation?’ He said ‘You are not under investigation,’ " Trump said in the on-camera interview.

But as it turns out...

NationalReview

Quote

Contrary to earlier reporting in the New York Times, which cited FBI sources as saying that the agency did not believe that the private server in Donald Trump’s Trump Tower which was connected to a Russian bank had any nefarious purpose, the FBI’s counter-intelligence arm, sources say, re-drew an earlier FISA court request around possible financial and banking offenses related to the server.

The first request, which, sources say, named Trump, was denied back in June, but the second was drawn more narrowly and was granted in October after evidence was presented of a server, possibly related to the Trump campaign, and its alleged links to two banks; SVB Bank and Russia’s Alfa Bank. While the Times story speaks of metadata, sources suggest that a FISA warrant was granted to look at the full content of emails and other related documents that may concern US persons.

They knew there was little evidence of a Trump-Russia connection based only on a banking server, yet Obama's administration kept requesting FISA warrants. Comey knew what was up.

[.ZZ.]

2 hours ago, Einsteinium said:

Really? Because I work in a highly competitive engineering firm in the midwest in a state that voted Trump and I am surrounded by people who are above average intelligence and very engaged in government and stay informed about what is going on and the consensus I hear all the time is that Trump is unfit for the office of president, doesn't know what he is doing, and is dangerous for our country. I also meet a lot of intelligent foreigners for my job and though I try to not bring up politics myself they sometimes bring it up and what I hear from them is the same thing. Some of them have told me that they feel sorry for us that Trump is our president.

The only people I meet who still support Trump are low skill blue collar type workers- temporary workers, assembly line workers, farmers, mostly people without a college education, hardly the highly informed voter. To me that is what I think of when I think about Trump supporters because that is what I have seen consistently in the area that I live in.

That is one of the most condescending post I have ever read here.

You're surrounded by geniuses and we mere mortals have to slum it with uneducated idiots. Is that what you're saying? Listen Mr Superior, I've got news for you...assembly line workers, farmers, and people that actually work for a living aren't as uninformed as you and snooty co-workers think. How dare you.

[+and-then]

On 5/11/2017 at 4:09 AM, Why not said:

I saw a clip from one of those late night tv shows (forget who- Cobert maybe), He informed his audience about Comey's firing and the audience went wild. I guess he didn't like that and accused them of being Trump supporters ( child molesters in liberal terms). Point is I'm sure most of the audience there were liberals and had to be told what they were supposed think of the firing of Comey. I couldn't believe it, but I guess if he didn't tell them what they were supposed to think about it, then when they got home the MSM would have told them.

To add: Trump needs to work on his people skills. That was probably the worst possible way he could have handled the firing of Comey.

 

It was PRICELESS   To be fair to them though, they'd been hearing all their heroes talking trash and invective about the guy for months.  I guess they didn't get the memo on the new hierarchy of evil  

Trump isn't ever going to graceful in his management style.  Yeah, it could have been better handled but I think the resultant hue and cry would have been just as hysterical.  I also think it makes a definitive statement regarding Obama's lack of a spine or a pair.  Valerie Jarret (queen of all things she surveys) asked him to fire the guy months ago and he was too worried about the consequences.  Trump said "hell no, you cain't HAVE MY cornbread"  (Movie reference/Eddie Murphy)

[RavenHawk]

2 hours ago, Einsteinium said:

Really? Because I work in a highly competitive engineering firm in the midwest in a state that voted Trump and I am surrounded by people who are above average intelligence and very engaged in government and stay informed about what is going on and the consensus I hear all the time is that Trump is unfit for the office of president, doesn't know what he is doing, and is dangerous for our country. I also meet a lot of intelligent foreigners for my job and though I try to not bring up politics myself they sometimes bring it up and what I hear from them is the same thing. Some of them have told me that they feel sorry for us that Trump is our president.

I support PhDs (some are literally rocket scientists) as well as those that don’t have a degree at a national lab in the Southwest.  I only have a bachelors and I’ve been working in the field for so long that it’s not worth the paper it’s printed on.  But it’s almost split down the middle in support.  Those that are anti-Trump relinquish their education and follow what the MSM spews out.  Those that support Trump understand his weaknesses and see how a non-politician is learning on the job and are impressed.  The Founding Fathers never wanted a professional politician to be President so if that is the criteria of being unfit, I see that as a compliment.  He knows what he’s doing and he’s got the MSM and the Establishment running around like cockroaches.  It is very entertaining seeing their safe places and comfort zones all blowup.  He is only dangerous to the Establishment and that is a win for the country.  The foreigners you talk to are probably globalists.  They’ve lost their ties to their nationality.

 

The only people I meet who still support Trump are low skill blue collar type workers- temporary workers, assembly line workers, farmers, mostly people without a college education, hardly the highly informed voter. To me that is what I think of when I think about Trump supporters because that is what I have seen consistently in the area that I live in.

It’s those that are the heart and soul of this nation – GOD bless them all and Trump reaches them, the forgotten man.  That’s the kind of leadership that impresses me.  It is so vastly different to the Piped Piper leadership of someone like Obama.  I don’t suppose you can appreciate the difference?  One is a leader among the people and the other leads people to the slaughter.  Trump is a natural leader as opposed to the community hack.  People can sense the difference and that is why Trump could connect with the people and someone like Hilary couldn’t.  One of the biggest mistakes you could have made (and showing your elitist stance) is trying to equate education with awareness.  People that do not have degrees are hardly not highly informed.  The forgotten man isn’t some hillbilly from Appalachia.  In fact, I would suppose that many have degrees but are aware that getting a degree isn’t the key to life and that is what most of them seek.

 

[Einsteinium]

13 minutes ago, .ZZ. said:

That is one of the most condescending post I have ever read here.

You're surrounded by geniuses and we mere mortals have to slum it with uneducated idiots. Is that what you're saying? Listen Mr Superior, I've got news for you...assembly line workers, farmers, and people that actually work for a living aren't as uninformed as you and snooty co-workers think. How dare you.

I am not saying I am surrounded my geniuses, just that I am surrounded by people with a higher intelligence than the average due to the nature of the work that I do only people with a higher than above average intelligence can make it here, the others cannot handle it and either leave because it is overwhelming or they are 'let go' because they do sub-par work.

Not all blue collar workers are uninformed, but more of them are uniformed than those with higher education. In college one is basically forced to study different perspectives, look at things from a higher level, and understand the minutia better. The only people I hear complaining about higher education as though it is 'liberal indoctrination' or some other ridiculous things are people who have either dropped out of college, or those who never went to college and therefore do not understand it.

I don't fault those people for it, I fault our education system for allowing that mindset to exist. There is a chasm of sorts between socio-economic classes of people that is troubling to me. The educated and well off are increasingly becoming more and more disconnected from the blue collar majority. And Trump was the blue collar answer to try and blow up that chasm in a sense.

[Einsteinium]

5 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

That’s the kind of leadership that impresses me.  It is so vastly different to the Piped Piper leadership of someone like Obama.  I don’t suppose you can appreciate the difference?  One is a leader among the people and the other leads people to the slaughter.

I can appreciate the difference, but I just don't see Trump as being a leader among the people. He himself is an elitist who has no understanding of what life is like for the average Joe American. The MSM calls him a narcissist con-man, and they are right. He conned the people into believing he would actually fight for them when in reality he is clearly, disregarding the medias assessment and just looking at what he has actually done, he clearly is working for the rich and could care less about the average Joe American.

Eventually the majority Average Joe Americans are going to see him for who he really is. The only question is how long will it take before that happens? How many passes will they give him before they say enough is enough with this guy?

[ian hacktorp]

2 hours ago, Einsteinium said:

The only people I meet who still support Trump are low skill blue collar type workers- temporary workers, assembly line workers, farmers, mostly people without a college education, hardly the highly informed voter. To me that is what I think of when I think about Trump supporters because that is what I have seen consistently in the area that I live in.

This remark fairly drips with ignorance.  What is it that you do around all of those "highly intelligent" people?

Serve coffee?

[Einsteinium]

1 minute ago, hacktorp said:

This remark fairly drips with ignorance.  What is it that you do around all of those "highly intelligent" people?

Serve coffee?

I am an engineer, I work right alongside them and it took me years of hard work and working full time while taking more classes, but I have earned respect here and have been given a lot of responsibilities here due to my hard work and problem solving abilities. I have several patents, and I have many more pending patents. Since you asked.

I enjoy poking some of you Trump supporters, it is so easy to offend you! And you think people like me are 'special snowflakes', it is hilariously troubling.

[ian hacktorp]

9 minutes ago, Einsteinium said:

I am an engineer, I work right alongside them and it took me years of hard work and working full time while taking more classes, but I have earned respect here and have been given a lot of responsibilities here due to my hard work and problem solving abilities. I have several patents, and I have many more pending patents. Since you asked.

I enjoy poking some of you Trump supporters, it is so easy to offend you! And you think people like me are 'special snowflakes', it is hilariously troubling.

 

Ahhh...I have directed engineering teams myself as a VP and Director of an instrumentation manufacturer.  Generally, I have found engineers to be likable, dedicated people who can follow orders and solve complex problems with great determination.

Understanding the political nuances of the wider world around them, however, not so much.

eta: I have several patents myself, and they are somewhat overrated as a blanket proof of someone's superior intelligence.

Edited May 12, 2017 by hacktorp

[The Silver Thong]

9 minutes ago, Einsteinium said:

I am an engineer, I work right alongside them and it took me years of hard work and working full time while taking more classes, but I have earned respect here and have been given a lot of responsibilities here due to my hard work and problem solving abilities. I have several patents, and I have many more pending patents. Since you asked.

I enjoy poking some of you Trump supporters, it is so easy to offend you! And you think people like me are 'special snowflakes', it is hilariously troubling.

A riddle. What did the pig say to the dog.

[Einsteinium]

4 minutes ago, The Silver Thong said:

A riddle. What did the pig say to the dog.

Oink Oink?

 

5 minutes ago, hacktorp said:

 

Ahhh...I have directed engineering teams myself as a VP and Director of an instrumentation manufacturer.  Generally, I have found engineers to be likable, dedicated people who can follow orders and solve complex problems with great determination.

Understanding the political nuances of the wider world around them, however, not so much.

And the average Joe Assembly line worker can?

I know it is not politically correct to talk about how the lesser educated are not as capable on average of understanding political nuances of the wider world around them, but it is true. I thought Trump supporters wanted to throw PC out the window? Well, you reap what you sow.

Edited May 12, 2017 by Einsteinium

[The Silver Thong]

1 minute ago, Einsteinium said:

Oink Oink?

 

 

Made ya say it lol

[.ZZ.]

33 minutes ago, Einsteinium said:

I am not saying I am surrounded my geniuses, just that I am surrounded by people with a higher intelligence than the average due to the nature of the work that I do only people with a higher than above average intelligence can make it here, the others cannot handle it and either leave because it is overwhelming or they are 'let go' because they do sub-par work.

How did you determine "higher intelligence"? Compared to whom?

So you're not only an accomplished engineer you also specialize in psychology? Man, what a great resume'!

Your illustrious company also includes IQ tests as prerequisites to hiring I take it.

[Einsteinium]

8 minutes ago, .ZZ. said:

How did you determine "higher intelligence"? Compared to whom?

So you're not only an accomplished engineer you also specialize in psychology? Man, what a great resume'!

Your illustrious company also includes IQ tests as prerequisites to hiring I take it.

I determined it the same way Trump determines his foreign policy, my gut feeling.

[WoIverine]

Ooh, in before "propaganda sponge", "useful idiot", and "Cultural Marxist" start flying around.

Edited May 12, 2017 by WoIverine

[odas]

4 hours ago, Einsteinium said:

You really think this? A small group of terrorists with nothing more than box cutters were able to take down the world trade center on 9/11. Have you been so focused on the USA that you have not been paying attention to what is going on in Russia or other nations? Only a fool would think that we are invincible and our system impenetrable to outside influence by a less powerful nation.

 

Do I personally think that Trump colluded with the Russians? No. I think Trump is merely incompetent and narcissistic and the Russians figured he would throw us into a bit of chaos and take our attention away from what he has been doing in his sphere of influence.

Do not have the time to "like" every each of your posts so let's say I did.

Just like you I am trying to explain to some of the um members not only not to underestimate Russian intell but also not to overestimate their own. My fellow American friends: you do not understand the power of Putin. If you do not take your heads out of your you know what it will not end good for you.

Is Dony and his family so much more worth then you and your families that you buy everything he sais? 

 

[Lilly]

Since there are so many verifiable geniuses hereabouts, I would have thought everyone would have read the applicable UM rules:

5c. Personal scrutiny: Do not attack or scrutinise another member's intelligence, mental status or personal/educational background.

5f. Balanced debate: Do not make posts forbidding opposing viewpoints or make derogatory personal observations designed to dismiss or belittle another member's opinion ( such as accusing them of being mentally ill or being paid to post. ) All sides of a debate should be represented.