Cigarette prices to soar tommorow

[Likely Guy]

If you've taken no notice of post #71 and haven't gone back to page #2, there is no hope for you.

You're not a very good troll.

[The Silver Thong]

Drop it

[The Silver Thong]

3 minutes ago, Likely Guy said:

If you've taken no notice of post #71 and haven't gone back to page #2, there is no hope for you.

You're not a very good troll.

Gee how did I know you woud post that hmmm

 

refer to post 75 lol

Edited May 26, 2017 by The Silver Thong

[Likely Guy]

At least someone has given the last rational post.

[MordorOrc]

On 5/26/2017 at 4:45 PM, The Silver Thong said:

Smokers will keep smoking no matter what, fact

And? The point of the taxes is not to stop people entirely but to reduce the number of people smoking and act as an incentive to not take up smoking. And it works. 

[Frank Merton]

53 minutes ago, MordorOrc said:

And? The point of the taxes is not to stop people entirely but to reduce the number of people smoking and act as an incentive to not take up smoking. And it works. 

This works, to the detriment of the children of the nicotine addict's children and the enrichment of the barons of the black market.

[aztek]

lol, as a former smoker of 20+ years, i can say, higher prices did not stop me, nor anyone i know, we just drove to Pennsylvania and bought cigs for 1\2 the price.  we also ordered online from Europe for 1\3 the price. there were, and i'm sure still are people that made it into their business to drive to VA, and bring truckloads of cigarettes, and sold in new york city for less than ny prices.  one needs to be really naive to believe price bump, has anything to do with gvmnt wanting you to quit.

Edited May 27, 2017 by aztek

[The Silver Thong]

13 hours ago, MordorOrc said:

And? The point of the taxes is not to stop people entirely but to reduce the number of people smoking and act as an incentive to not take up smoking. And it works. 

Yet another simple pleasure only the rich can afford.

[MordorOrc]

20 hours ago, Frank Merton said:

This works, to the detriment of the children of the nicotine addict's children and the enrichment of the barons of the black market.

Not really. If anything, prompting the parents to quit would benefit children as the money used to buy cigarettes or tobacco can buy basic goods. Also there isn't much of a black market here for the tobacco to be sold onto. 

7 hours ago, The Silver Thong said:

Yet another simple pleasure only the rich can afford.

Not really. Most households could afford to have one person smoking without too much of a dent in the family budget. A pack of 25 cigarettes in NZ costs around CA$31.00. 

[Frank Merton]

2 hours ago, MordorOrc said:

Not really. If anything, prompting the parents to quit would benefit children as the money used to buy cigarettes or tobacco can buy basic goods. Also there isn't much of a black market here for the tobacco to be sold onto. 

Not really. Most households could afford to have one person smoking without too much of a dent in the family budget. A pack of 25 cigarettes in NZ costs around CA$31.00. 

Politicians are greedy and once they see they can get away with these "sin" taxes without much political price, they will go up and up.  My main objection, though, is how it helps the black market.  I also have an ideological objection to any time the state makes moral choices, and differences in tax rates like this are a moral choice.

[MordorOrc]

One, it's not greed. The taxes will be put back into government healthcare funding. Two, there's no public backlash against the taxes. Three, there's no black market in New Zealand for cigarettes. Four, having an ideological objection to something is ridiculous, because the state isn't making a moral decision, it's making a financial one. Because 15% of the population still smokes, that 15% of the population will have an increased chance of developing a large number of illnesses and cancers which won't be covered by the collective share of taxes from that percentage which are spent on healthcare. Therefore it is necessary to place taxes on such things in order to cover the costs of additional healthcare treatment for that percentage of the population. 

[aztek]

i'm sure things are just like that in NZ.  but there is more to the world than NZ. 

actually i agree with frank, (like 2nd time since 2013) gvmnt wants more money, that is all there is to it, i have 0 doubts  that money would not be put in any healthcare program.

Edited May 28, 2017 by aztek

[rashore]

8 hours ago, MordorOrc said:

Not really. If anything, prompting the parents to quit would benefit children as the money used to buy cigarettes or tobacco can buy basic goods. Also there isn't much of a black market here for the tobacco to be sold onto. 

Not really. Most households could afford to have one person smoking without too much of a dent in the family budget. A pack of 25 cigarettes in NZ costs around CA$31.00. 

Do you mean CA$31.00 as Canadian dollars? That's about 23 bucks US. One pack of smokes for 23 bucks?

[seeder]

On 25/05/2017 at 7:15 PM, aztek said:

isn't smoking banned in public places already? 

 

In the UK we can smoke in public.... tho work/business places will have a designated spot for smokers well away from non smokers.  One of the unexpected side effects of the smoking ban in enclosed spaces....was that it has had a serious effect on Pubs. UK folk are pub lovers, there is nothing better than a cold pint of beer and a cigarette....the two go together like a hand in a glove

In one of my jobs as a business debt collector.... I worked for a company that dealt with mainly pubs..... so many times, every day, day in and day out.....Id hear the financial struggles of the pubs were down to the smoking ban...of course that wasnt 100% TRUE in every case

But I havent been to a pub since because of it. If I want a cold beer in a pub, I usually either want my drink and a seat so I can read a paper or talk with mates etc...and have a smoke.,  I DONT want to have to ask someone to keep an eye on my drink and seat.. so I can walk out the door and then walk 20 yards for a smoke.....and when Im done, come back and hope my seat and beer are still there

[aztek]

same here,   now  bars\diners that have  backyards, (you can still smoke outside if place allows) got huge bump in business. 

Edited May 28, 2017 by aztek

[Kismit]

My Father died from lung cancer. My Mother is slowly dying from lung cancer. Anything that deters people from smoking is welcome in my books.

I gave up about 12 years ago. Saving a fortune on smokes, perfumes and breath mints.

 

[MordorOrc]

14 hours ago, aztek said:

i'm sure things are just like that in NZ.  but there is more to the world than NZ. 

actually i agree with frank, (like 2nd time since 2013) gvmnt wants more money, that is all there is to it, i have 0 doubts  that money would not be put in any healthcare program.

Then you have absolutely no idea how taxation works. The government doesn't simply tax people for no reason or takes tax money to line their own pockets. What they take is almost always spent again on public services. And even those these days are severely underfunded. 

14 hours ago, rashore said:

Do you mean CA$31.00 as Canadian dollars? That's about 23 bucks US. One pack of smokes for 23 bucks?

According to one site, yes. Prices vary but the average price is supposed to be around NZ$30 per pack by 2020. 

[The Silver Thong]

17 minutes ago, Kismit said:

My Father died from lung cancer. My Mother is slowly dying from lung cancer. Anything that deters people from smoking is welcome in my books.

I gave up about 12 years ago. Saving a fortune on smokes, perfumes and breath mints.

 

Sorry to hear that but it`s a coping tool for many and jacking the cost is theft by the government, just like a carbon tax.  Stop taxing the little guy

[Kismit]

1 hour ago, The Silver Thong said:

Sorry to hear that but it`s a coping tool for many and jacking the cost is theft by the government, just like a carbon tax.  Stop taxing the little guy

As I said earlier if you really want to fight the government. Give up. 

That way you win.

Otherwise your just going to have to keep giving them your money.

Taxes on cigarettes are very high over here but the government funds Quitline and it's nicotine substitute gum and patches are heavily subsidised.

There is no real winning when you smoke. There are other coping mechanisms. It's just damned hard to give up and we fight against the need to, so we make excuses, "it's my only vice", I really enjoy it, "it's a coping mechanism", "why should I?".

The thing is if you choose to smoke you choose to pay taxes. People are really complaining about somthing they have actually chosen to do.

...........

Edited to add to back Mordorcorc up a bit here. It's roughly $23.00 NZ for 20 ciggarettes. A 50gm of tobacco is about $80.00 to $90.00 and that could buy a reasonable amount of groceries. Plain packaging is comming in in a couple of months. And I know quite a few people who have given up because of the cost.

E-ciggarette and vape stick sales have gone up. 

[The Silver Thong]

We all die. The matter in what way we die should not be taxed at all. If I choose to smoke and die at 45 that was my choice. Why is it the government should profit from it.  I`m going to quote you here.

As I said earlier if you really want to fight the government. Give up. 

That kinda scares me, might as well say why even have a government. The government is in place to create an even playing feild for the people. Not punish them. As I said in the past lets make a big mac 20 dollars and tax the chubbies. Lets make a can of Coke 8 bucks a can.

Edited May 29, 2017 by The Silver Thong

[Kismit]

10 minutes ago, The Silver Thong said:

We all die. The matter in what way we die should not be taxed at all. If I choose to smoke and die at 45 that was my choice. Why is it the government should profit from it.  I`m going to quote you here.

As I said earlier if you really want to fight the government. Give up. 

That kinda scares me, might as well say why even have a government. The government is in place to create an even playing feild for the people. Not punish them. As I said in the past lets make a big mac 20 dollars and tax the chubbies. Lets make a can of Coke 8 bucks a can.

The fat tax is a very different issue. Here's the skinny on why we don't have a fat tax.

A fat tax would have to be placed on all procesed goods. This includes things like bread,  margaine, butter, cheese. (food staples)You can not just punish the take away market or specifically target certain companies. It's a common but under evaluated argument.

Our governments allready have put many early prevention education programmes in place. Schools actively provide healthy options.

And the argument that soda and junk food is cheap should not be used if that's all you can afford after you buy yourself smokes.

Edited to add if this scares you

As I said earlier if you really want to fight the government. Give up. 

You have a very low threshold of fear and government understanding. 

The government has not taken away your choice. You are the one in control.

[The Silver Thong]

7 minutes ago, Kismit said:

The fat tax is a very different issue. Here's the skinny on why we don't have a fat tax.

A fat tax would have to be placed on all procesed goods. This includes things like bread,  margaine, butter, cheese. (food staples)You can not just punish the take away market or specifically target certain companies. It's a common but under evaluated argument.

Our governments allready have put many early prevention education programmes in place. Schools actively provide healthy options.

And the argument that soda and junk food is cheap should not be used if that's all you can afford after you buy yourself smokes.

Thanks for proving my point. So instead we tax a very small portion of the population to keep people fat. How about a tax on fast food and soda. You mention a tax on food staples. Thats not what I said. I eat crap because it`s cheap. Would it not make sence to tax fast food so people don`t eat crap.

Edited May 29, 2017 by The Silver Thong

[Kismit]

2 minutes ago, The Silver Thong said:

Thanks for proving my point. So instead we tax a very small portion of the population to keep people fat. How about a tax on fast food and soda. You mention a tax on food staples. Thats not what I said. I eat crap because it`s cheap. Would it not make sence to tax fast food so people don`t eat crap.

Read my earlier post fully.

I used to work for the Department of Human Nutrition at Otago University for a man by the name of Proffessor Jim Mann. Please look him up. This is an area I am well aware of. 

[The Silver Thong]

I think I made my point without having to search for sum Proffessor Jim Mann.  ok I did he talks about this

Jim Mann has been Professor in Human Nutrition and Medicine at the University of Otago. His research has principally been in the fields of lipids and carbohydrates as they relate to coronary heart disease and diabetes and in the field of obesity.

His words

[Kismit]

Yes that is the very first paragraph of the very first post that comes up well done you for researching

And that last word. Obesity. He is the leading researcher on Obesity in New Zealand. He created this magazine the Healthy Food Guide, and instituted kitchen to garden programmes at schools as well as Obesity studies on fitness and food in Schools. This has certainly included a very high level of debate on a Fat Tax.

Education and Prevention is the preffered method used by the Government and the Medical industries, just like smoking.

It's still your choice to smoke and pay taxes.