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Explosions in Manchester


Torchwood

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3 minutes ago, skliss said:

I saw one pundit saying that the problem these days is the U.K has an OVER abundance  of information.  So many cameras and electronic surveillance that they now have more people spending so much time sifting thru it all at desks that they are missing the human information aspect. Years ago you had police on the streets walking around getting to know people in their areas who felt comfortable maybe passing on a fear or suspicion by word of mouth to someone they see all the time and learned to trust. I thought that was interesting even tho its one man's opinion in the end.

Yes, I think that's probably quite true. All this recording of what everyone ever says ever is really counterproductive. Same as relying on algorithms and key words and so on, rather than the experience and judgement of seasoned detectives or intelligence officers. 

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28 minutes ago, Torchwood said:

argued about the morality of issuing condoms to troops.

:huh: Oh, presumably you mean for when they were on leave in Paris. 

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7 hours ago, Manfred von Dreidecker said:

How would Blitzing Whoever (as I'm sure Britain's increasingly authoritarian Prime Minister Theresa May is itching to do right now) be likely to prevent this, or any of the other attacks there've ever been in any Western country since 9/11? They don't need to have a Mastermind masterminding things, they don't need an organisation to give them orders and instructions. Attacking some other country would have not the slightest effect at all. In fact, it would just give twisted individuals - and individuals is the key word here - more motivation or excuse, and certainly give their preachers more ammunition to poison their minds with.

I'm not suggesting we attack another country because there isn't a single country responsible. It's a collective of countries, some actively harboring/supporting extremists.

That doesn't solve the impossible problem of our modern age: how do you separate the extremists from the "moderates" when they all look the same, sound the same and worship at the same places?

You can reduce that question further: is the risk/damages of terrorist attacks greater than the benefits contributed by the Muslim population of the UK (approx. 4.5% of the population)?

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10 minutes ago, Dark_Grey said:



You can reduce that question further: is the risk/damages of terrorist attacks greater than the benefits contributed by the Muslim population of the UK (approx. 4.5% of the population)?

interesting question DG, I pondered this myself last night.

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4 hours ago, Manfred von Dreidecker said:

Kind of like how the Government would keep an agent stationed in every church that they permitted to remain open in Communist countries to ensure Right Thought? all these "solutions" of yours seem to want to turn the UK (and presumably every Western country) into Stalin's USSR.

Hey, this is the UK we are talking about; cameras on every street corner monitoring your every move, and justified in the most Orwellian language you can imagine.

You would think they would be used to this sort of solution by now.... no matter how expensive and innefective. 

 

Meanwhile, they let 3500 ISIS veterans come back into the country!!!

Insane, or just plain suicidal? 

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3 minutes ago, quillius said:

interesting question DG, I pondered this myself last night.

It seems like a complex question until you break this down in to numbers, which I find helps me wrap my head around it. Unfortunately, when you get down to the numbers, the whole situation is even worse.

Islam has brought almost all of Europe to it's knees and has Americans scrambling to sort it out at home. They are only 4.5% of the pop in the UK and only 1% in America! That's insane!
You can argue that terrorists aren't following true Islam but then you must ask why such a small population is producing such a disproportionately high number of violent attacks against non-Muslims. This is where the apologists usually fall silent - they know deep down there is no solving this with kindness.

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40 minutes ago, Manfred von Dreidecker said:

:huh: Oh, presumably you mean for when they were on leave in Paris. 

Nah, there was bit of a scandal over nothing-  Monty wanted the troops in his Division to be practicing safe sex (he didnt want half his men laid low by STD's after some horizontal refreshment with those dirty french girls) , some religious folk got wind and didn't like him encouraging such behaviour (obvious nonsense - it was going to happen anyway) . I believe he wanted to set up army brothels too (can't recall if he actually did or not)- standard practice during WW1 to protect the troops when off duty, but suddenly taboo during WW2. It escalated up through the ranks of the army's command and left it arguing about condoms when it should have been fighting the hun.

16 minutes ago, AnchorSteam said:

Meanwhile, they let 3500 ISIS veterans come back into the country!!!

I'm sure the numbers I saw suggested it was 350...mostly women.

 

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9 minutes ago, Torchwood said:

I'm sure the numbers I saw suggested it was 350...mostly women.

 

According to your own press, NO, I'm right.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/more-3000-isis-jihadists-britain-6470558

 

And whatever the number... what sense does it make to bomb somebody and then invite them over to live with you because you felt bad about bombing them later on?

 

Ask THESE people -

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/05/24/ariana-grande-concert-attack-victims-in-manchester-blast-identified.html

Some of the victims, if anyone wants to have a look and know something about them.

 

Yeah, Fox News, but if it weren't for them the bomber's name would still be concealed and he would be called "Asian" by the UK Govt, just like the last few times. 

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1 minute ago, AnchorSteam said:

Yeah, Fox News, but if it weren't for them the bomber's name would still be concealed and he would be called "Asian" by the UK Govt, just like the last few times. 

A little off topic but I am going to stop you right there. I made the same mistake not long ago of assuming the BCC was trying to cover something up by referring to a Middle Eastern terrorist as "Asian". Turns out, there is a cultural reason for that. In the UK, "Asian" is used to describe anyone from Oriental nations all the way to the Middle East and the countries in-between. It's not a term that is used a lot here so I was also confused when I first saw it in a British headline. :tu:

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4 minutes ago, AnchorSteam said:

According to your own press, NO, I'm right.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/more-3000-isis-jihadists-britain-6470558

 

And whatever the number... what sense does it make to bomb somebody and then invite them over to live with you because you felt bad about bombing them later on?

 

Ask THESE people -

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/05/24/ariana-grande-concert-attack-victims-in-manchester-blast-identified.html

Some of the victims, if anyone wants to have a look and know something about them.

 

Yeah, Fox News, but if it weren't for them the bomber's name would still be concealed and he would be called "Asian" by the UK Govt, just like the last few times. 

Except you said "Veterans"  coming back into the country, for which figures vary- http://www.*** blocked ***/news/uk/680627/Hundreds-ISIS-terrorists-returning-UK-fighting-extremist-group-Syria  350-400 seems to be the consensus though.  The figures you give are for potential Isis supporters who were born here and havn't come back from anywhere.

 

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7 minutes ago, Dark_Grey said:

A little off topic but I am going to stop you right there. I made the same mistake not long ago of assuming the BCC was trying to cover something up by referring to a Middle Eastern terrorist as "Asian". Turns out, there is a cultural reason for that. In the UK, "Asian" is used to describe anyone from Oriental nations all the way to the Middle East and the countries in-between. It's not a term that is used a lot here so I was also confused when I first saw it in a British headline. :tu:

This, though if his ancestry is libyan then it should be "African" rather than "Asian". 

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5 hours ago, Setton said:

I wouldn't support the posting of government officers in every mosque as the majority are genuine, peaceful places of worship

Those places of worship are known focal points for radicalization.  Having surveillance in such places should not offend any reasonable person.  

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FOX just reported two arrests in Libya. One was the younger brother of the bomber who they said "sang like a canary". He knew everything. I hope everyone involved is found and caught.

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23 minutes ago, and then said:

Those places of worship are known focal points for radicalization.  Having surveillance in such places should not offend any reasonable person.  

This is true. It's not uncommon in Europe for Mosques to have radicalized literature on the pamphlet table "just in case". I mean, you never know when someone might be interested in learning more about the afterlife.

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2 minutes ago, Dark_Grey said:

This is true. It's not uncommon in Europe for Mosques to have radicalized literature on the pamphlet table "just in case". I mean, you never know when someone might be interested in learning more about the afterlife.

Now I understand why the Church in this parish had a leaflet entitled "Looking for Sun, Sea and Sand this Summer?  Why not join a Crusade?"...

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7 minutes ago, Torchwood said:

Now I understand why the Church in this parish had a leaflet entitled "Looking for Sun, Sea and Sand this Summer?  Why not join a Crusade?"...

LOL "'Join the Crusades', they said. 'See the world', they said. PFFFFFFFFFF all I got was cholera!"

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CAIRO (AP) — The father of the 22-year-old Briton who police say bombed a concert in Manchester insisted Wednesday that his son was innocent and just had been preparing to go on a pilgrimage in Saudi Arabia.

Ramadan Abedi, 51, also known by his nom de guerre of Abu Ismail, spoke to The Associated Press by phone from the Libyan city of Tripoli. He confirmed that his other son, Ismail, had been arrested Tuesday around Manchester by British authorities in the concert attack probe.

"We don't believe in killing innocents. This is not us," the senior Abedi said. "We aren't the ones who blow up ourselves among innocents. We go to mosques. We recite Quran, but not that."

https://www.yahoo.com/news/father-suspected-manchester-bomber-says-son-innocent-164057058.html

 

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2 hours ago, Dark_Grey said:

A little off topic but I am going to stop you right there. I made the same mistake not long ago of assuming the BCC was trying to cover something up by referring to a Middle Eastern terrorist as "Asian". Turns out, there is a cultural reason for that. In the UK, "Asian" is used to describe anyone from Oriental nations all the way to the Middle East and the countries in-between. It's not a term that is used a lot here so I was also confused when I first saw it in a British headline. :tu:

It makes perfect sense because the Middle East is in Asia.

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3 hours ago, Dark_Grey said:

It seems like a . complex qu, estion until you break this down in to numbers, which I find helps me wrap my head around it. Unfortunately, when you get down to the numbers, the whole situation is even worse.

Islam has brought almost all of Europe to it's knees and has Americans scrambling to sort it out at home. They are only 4.5% of the pop in the UK and only 1% in America! That's insane!
You can argue that terrorists aren't following true Islam but then you must ask why such a small population is producing such a disproportionately high number of violent attacks against non-Muslims. This is where the apologists usually fall silent - they know deep down there is no solving this with kindness.

I kind of know the answer but not might be able to explain it properly. For general Muslim everything is seen through religious view for ex they might not want to sing anthem because it praises the queen instead of God or some anthem might ask every one to put country above all which is again a conflict, the secular law and constitution and the education system of any non Islamic nation is against the Islamic beliefs for ex men and women working in same office etc. To cut short lots of stuff are against the beliefs of even moderate of moderate Muslims this causes the rise in terrorism among the community 

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2 hours ago, and then said:

Those places of worship are known focal points for radicalization.  Having surveillance in such places should not offend any reasonable person.  

No, some of those places of worship are known focal points for radicalisation. It's an important distinction. Those ones should have extra surveillance and they can just cope with being offended. Or better yet, don't make them aware of it, like I said before.

Permanent surveillance on all mosques will just stir up more ill-feeling, drive would-be terrorists underground and be completely impractical both in costs and logistics.

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4 hours ago, AnchorSteam said:

Ariana Grande is just another Prosti-tart who has already gone on record as hating her own fans and the US as a whole... the thought of doing anything for people who are hurting probably never entered her head until the thought was put there by her press agents. 

And.... just Dumb!

Of course she would have run right back here, but a 30 minute drive down the road could have taken her to a safer place. Yes, safer, considering the fact that she had to go through a freaking airport to get back here!

Yeah, way to shake the terrorists. But you don't get to see dumb and cowardly match up so perfectly. 

That's pop-culture for you. :wacko:

That's a bit unfair.

shes like 12 and probsbly bricking it that it could have been her blown up. I fully understand it if every single person who was at the concert or near the concert never actually gives a single thought to another person. They're children, or were once children so recently they might as well still be children. It was two days ago, theyrevall still in "run and hide" mode. 

Shecmight be a public figure and a role model, but she's also a human being who could very possibly have just met death for the first time. 

 

 

You want dumb? You want something to castigate?

the Tweeters who are all showing random photos claiming their of their missing kids. Leave the poor kids who got caught up in this massacre alone. It's not just the ones with shrapnel wounds who are victims here.

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CCTV   recorded him buying his stuff/whatever... a few days earlier


 

Quote

 

BREAKING NEWS: Suicide bomber 'was pictured wearing backpack at Manchester's Arndale Centre three days before atrocity'

    Leaked CCTV from Manchester's Arndale Centre shows Salman Abedi shopping
    He appears to have a backpack similar to one believed to have contained bomb
    He carried explosives into arena in a black vest or blue Karrimor backpack


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4539162/Bomber-pictured-wearing-backpack-Arndale-Centre.html#ixzz4i20eAdHG

 

 

 

 

Edited by seeder
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9 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

shes like 12

Actually she's 23 and does part of her show dressed in lingerie. She's also been political, attended "Marches"... recorded a song to benefit BLM...... sounds like a grown-up to me.

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2 hours ago, aztek said:

CAIRO (AP) — The father of the 22-year-old Briton who police say bombed a concert in Manchester insisted Wednesday that his son was innocent and just had been preparing to go on a pilgrimage in Saudi Arabia.

Ramadan Abedi, 51, also known by his nom de guerre of Abu Ismail, spoke to The Associated Press by phone from the Libyan city of Tripoli. He confirmed that his other son, Ismail, had been arrested Tuesday around Manchester by British authorities in the concert attack probe.

"We don't believe in killing innocents. This is not us," the senior Abedi said. "We aren't the ones who blow up ourselves among innocents. We go to mosques. We recite Quran, but not that."

https://www.yahoo.com/news/father-suspected-manchester-bomber-says-son-innocent-164057058.html

 

The Quran instructs his father to lie.

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