Explosions in Manchester

[aztek]

1 minute ago, hetrodoxly said:

The Quran instructs his father to lie.

yes it does, idk why they even asked him anything.

[Dark_Grey]

Quote

"We don't believe in killing innocents. This is not us," the senior Abedi said. "We aren't the ones who blow up ourselves among innocents. We go to mosques. We recite Quran, but not that."

Reminds me a lot of the Orlando Nightclub shooter's father, also a landed immigrant.

Quote

Seddique said he was “very saddened” by his son’s actions before stating that, “God will punish those involved in homosexuality” and that it’s “not an issue that humans should deal with.”

Later in the day, Seddique contacted CBS to temper his remarks: “He doesn’t have the right, nobody has the right to harm anything, anybody. What a person’s lifestyle is, is up to him. It’s a free country. Everybody has their own choice to live the way they want to live.”

You know, before he was outed as a vocal supporter of the Taliban.

[The Silver Thong]

1 hour ago, skliss said:

Actually she's 23 and does part of her show dressed in lingerie. She's also been political, attended "Marches"... recorded a song to benefit BLM...... sounds like a grown-up to me.

BLM is a joke and does not matter more than any other, look into it.

[The Silver Thong]

Oh wait a second the bomber in Manchester went to Libya  and Syria to gain Isis training and was let back in hmmmm But lets not talk about that or the religion he followed. It might hurt someones feelings.

[The Caspian Hare]

The brother of Salman Abedi, the suspect accused of carrying out a bombing in Manchester, England, that killed 22 people, allegedly said he knew his brother was going to carry out an attack, but did not know where or when, according to a spokesman for Libya's counterterror forces.

http://6abc.com/news/brother-of-manchester-bomber-knew-an-attack-was-coming-libyan-official/2030229/

[The Silver Thong]

I don`t give 2 craps about peoples feelings I give a crap about kids getting blown up in the name of a god Im not allowed to mention. When will the Liberals  stop making excuses for this stuff. Close the borders and deport illigals other wise this bombing that we are told well be a common thing and will happen everywhere.

 

[The Silver Thong]

4 minutes ago, The Russian Hare said:

The brother of Salman Abedi, the suspect accused of carrying out a bombing in Manchester, England, that killed 22 people, allegedly said he knew his brother was going to carry out an attack, but did not know where or when, according to a spokesman for Libya's counterterror forces.

http://6abc.com/news/brother-of-manchester-bomber-knew-an-attack-was-coming-libyan-official/2030229/

So where are the moderates we believe exsist and should expose this. Ohhh wait maybe there are none. We are in deep poo poo if we don`t do something.

 

[docyabut2]

Its so sad that more people will be killed over this Islamic terrorism `s ideology . Its really up to the religion to teach to  kill someone is not a  glory, but is a  loser  (Trump )

[Kismit]

16 minutes ago, The Silver Thong said:

I don`t give 2 craps about peoples feelings I give a crap about kids getting blown up in the name of a god Im not allowed to mention. When will the Liberals  stop making excuses for this stuff. Close the borders and deport illigals other wise this bombing that we are told well be a common thing and will happen everywhere.

 

Let me make my first statement as clear as I can. I am adressing this post as a poster and not a Moderator.

My empathy lies with the families affected, like everyone else here, I would love to live in a world where our children are safe and know love not hate.

So let us have a look at what this post achieves.. 

Firstly it's agressive, why?

Secondly it segregates and disenfranchises both Liberals and Muslims. Generalisations are ignorant, if you lump everyone into any group and add a blatant non-fact you are not exactly showing informed thought process.

How does teaching people to hate and stereotype help? How does this make us better than the terrorist scum?

How does that stop the disenfranchised lone wolf atrack?

What purpose does this really serve but to spread racism and hate? And how does that help those people who are really and trully affected by these tragedies. The families of the victims.

Edited May 24, 2017 by Kismit

[CrimsonKing]

7 minutes ago, Kismit said:

Let me make my first statement as clear as I can. I am adressing this post as a poster and not a Moderator.

My empathy lies with the families affected, like everyone else here, I would love to live in a world where our children are safe and know love not hate.

So let us have a look at what this post achieves.. 

Firstly it's agressive, why?

Secondly it segregates and disenfranchises both Liberals and Muslims. Generalisations are ignorant, if you lump everyone into any group and add a blatant non-fact you are not exactly showing informed thought process.

How does teaching people to hate and stereotype help? How does this make us better than the terrorist scum?

How does that stop the disenfranchised lone wolf atrack?

What purpose does this really serve but to spread racism and hate? And how does that help those people who are really and trully affected by these tragedies. The families of the victims.

To be fair to TST this is the UM politics section...

Almost 75% of all posts are full of divisive as hell language from any and all sides!If you would like perhaps follow me through a Trump or brexit thread lol

This post of yours will probably recieve several "likes" as it's contents should,but many who will "like" it couldn't look in a mirror and honestly say to themselves they aren't guilty as hell of using their own divisive language on here regularly!

[+and-then]

2 hours ago, Setton said:

No, some of those places of worship are known focal points for radicalisation. It's an important distinction. Those ones should have extra surveillance and they can just cope with being offended. Or better yet, don't make them aware of it, like I said before.

Permanent surveillance on all mosques will just stir up more ill-feeling, drive would-be terrorists underground and be completely impractical both in costs and logistics.

We disagree on the scope and severity of the problem, apparently.  Your country already has greatest the CCTV surveillance in the world, or close to it.  The idea that government can possibly know every mosque where radicalization occurs or WILL occur is not well conceived, imo.  As to stirring "ill feelings", we've had almost 16 years of episodes where members of one community have been responsible for attacking, killing or maiming unarmed civilians.  Whether one believes they have a real grievance or not, it is unacceptable in any civilized society to kill non-combatants in such a way.  Any religious leader, Muslim, Christian, or Jew that balks at surveillance through CCTV and sound recordings can apply to the government for input in the law prior to its passage.  It should be uniform for all public religious gatherings.  The statute can be crafted such that the only legal use of the intel would be for criminal cases.  All these facilities should be subject to thorough, random inspection for weapons storage.  

Just as we continually hear/see the refrain -#NOT ALL MUSLIMS!, I posit that if most Muslims are just like everyone else in their communities (I believe this is true) then they, too, will understand the need for some steps to help fight these ongoing atrocities.  If Muslims were singled out, I still believe it would be just but this plan doesn't do that. There is no speech within halls of worship that should be so secretive that this would pose a major burden.  Is it an extreme measure?  ABSOLUTELY.  And this measure or one much worse will come eventually.  We've been dragged down the rabbit hole by a group of fundamentalist Muslims who clearly state their goals and then follow through in a methodical way to accomplish them.  The feelings and supposed outrage of their fellows in the faith don't matter at all to me and, I suspect, to most western citizens who have to wonder if their children will live to come home each time they part company.  Put simply, the secular and multi-tradition religious communities of the west are at war with a significant % of Muslims who adhere to the tenets of an unrepentant, unreformed religion that is being practiced in a barbaric fashion.  

The time for concern over stirring ill feelings is long past.  The time is here for decisions by the people in Europe, GB and in Asia on the future of Islam in their midst.  If they are content to be eventually compelled to live under the sharia then I wish them well.  If they reject that ideology then I suggest that they begin planning to fight it by whatever means necessary.  I can assure you of one thing.  In my part of the US, the sharia will never take hold.  In fact, at the first hint of non-assimilating communities of Muslims gathering, they will be made to understand that we are not fools and we will not be silent.  If they choose to live among us and be a peaceful part of our communities then they will be welcome.  If we find that they have more "traditional" aspirations then they will be made to feel MOST unwelcome.  That message will also be sent to any community member who tries to advocate for allowing insular Muslim neighborhoods or rules.

[docyabut2]

Quote

If anything Trump is  right  banned those Muslims  that are  traveling back and forth to these terrorist  countries, that are being radicalize:( a pause  to figure them out .

 

Edited May 24, 2017 by docyabut2

[+and-then]

11 hours ago, Manfred von Dreidecker said:

Kind of like how the Government would keep an agent stationed in every church that they permitted to remain open in Communist countries to ensure Right Thought? all these "solutions" of yours seem to want to turn the UK (and presumably every Western country) into Stalin's USSR.

 

Yes, government  isn't to be trusted - the people of those communities may have to stop meeting publicly.  For now, at least here in the US, there are rules about how such evidence can be used.  The incidental criminal types of conversations or plans not concerning planning for missions or rousing the faithful to violent action could be made hands-off for prosecutors.  That kind of loophole has been used in our legal system for decades.  This surveillance would be targeted toward minimizing the radicalization process and if it seems extreme then so be it.  That community could always close their own mosques and meet in private homes.  The truth is that Islamic fundamentalists have the world by the nuts and we WILL change for them in one way or another.  We simply need to remind them that change works both ways.  If children are specifically targeted in the US, I predict you will see a far uglier side of the ugly American than anyone would ever want to see.  I don't agree with vigilantism but I certainly would understand it in the context of the grief and rage over losing a child.  In fact, I'm rather surprised that the BEEB hasn't put together a doco yet about how awful the targeting of Muslims would be.  Since, NOT ALL MUSLIMS and all that jazz.  When a people will docilely accept the public murder of their children without outrage and action then I think it's reasonable to wonder if they aren't already a cowed and broken lot.  I  by no means include all Brits in that category but those who aren't might want to wake up and raise some serious hell in the public square. The mayor of London is a disgrace and should be literally run out of town on a rail for his suggestion that such acts are just part of the landscape now, a new normal.  TO HELL WITH THAT AND HIM!  

[Kismit]

25 minutes ago, CrimsonKing said:

To be fair to TST this is the UM politics section...

Almost 75% of all posts are full of divisive as hell language from any and all sides!If you would like perhaps follow me through a Trump or brexit thread lol

This post of yours will probably recieve several "likes" as it's contents should,but many who will "like" it couldn't look in a mirror and honestly say to themselves they aren't guilty as hell of using their own divisive language on here regularly!

Divisive language happens. And I'm quite familiar with the political boards. This was my stomping ground, my battle ground through the Bush administration.

My problem is when generalisations get thrown around they don't help anyone. Least of all the victims. We give too much credence to the perpetrator and his origins or religions, and not enough to the innocent real life people who are suffering. 

The media spend more time on one scumbag individual than they do those people who are suffering. I wish that would change, giving the scumbag fame helps no one but the terrorist cause.

[The Silver Thong]

I never promote hate but I do like the truth and sometimes it`s ugly many don`t want the truth. Don`t sell me a watermellon when it`s a lemon. I have a tendancy to expose the lies from the truth. I`m not always right but who is. If I have to get a bit dirty I will. I don`t post willy nilly I look things up and times it disturbs me what some can do or say. My posts are not to offend but to inform. If my posts are inaccurate Im glad to be corrected by anyone.

 

[Claire.]

I just finished reading this opinion piece in the New York Times: The Jihadi State of Mind. The key point it brings forward is that this 'state of mind' is not limited to Islamic extremists. The author states:

There is now what we might call a “jihadi state of mind,” in which some mixture of social disengagement, moral dissolution, unleavened misanthropy and inchoate rage drives some to see the most abhorrent expressions of violence as a kind of revolt. It is a state of mind that finds its most vicious, barbaric form in Islamist terror. But it’s not only in Islamist terror that it finds expression.

And he's right.  Yet, when incidents like the Manchester bombing happen, we seem to forget that, don't we. We forget that people like Damon Smith (a Brit who was found guilty of planting a homemade bomb filled with ball bearings on a London Underground train) is not an Islamic extremist or someone who thought of themselves as Muslim. We forget that Dylann Roof (who shot dead nine African-American worshipers in a church in Charleston, S.C., in 2015) is also not an Islamic extremist. We forget that acts of terror can, and are, carried out by people from all walks or life and religions.

i hate to imagine what the Manchester victims went through. The fear, the panic, the pain... And now in the aftermath what their families are going through, not to mention those victims who have a long road of recovery ahead of them. None of them will ever get over it.

Edited May 24, 2017 by Claire.
Fixed paragraph spacing.

[The Silver Thong]

5 minutes ago, Kismit said:

Divisive language happens. And I'm quite familiar with the political boards. This was my stomping ground, my battle ground through the Bush administration.

My problem is when generalisations get thrown around they don't help anyone. Least of all the victims. We give too much credence to the perpetrator and his origins or religions, and not enough to the innocent real life people who are suffering. 

The media spend more time on one scumbag individual than they do those people who are suffering. I wish that would change, giving the scumbag fame helps no one but the terrorist cause.

 You must mean Trump I assume but again as I said I could be wrong

Wasn`t Trump that created the terrorists, just sayin.

[thedutchiedutch]

55 minutes ago, The Silver Thong said:

I don`t give 2 craps about peoples feelings I give a crap about kids getting blown up in the name of a god Im not allowed to mention. When will the Liberals  stop making excuses for this stuff. Close the borders and deport illigals other wise this bombing that we are told well be a common thing and will happen everywhere.

 

 

That is so taken out of context. The mayor is advocating for more city preparedness and for Londoners to help combat terror threats.
The mayor of London said that he believes the threat of terror attacks are “part and parcel of living in a big city” and encouraged Londoners to be vigilant to combat dangers.
The Mayor of London revealed he had a “sleepless night” after the recent bombing in New York, and said major cities around the world “have got to be prepared for these sorts of things” to happen when people least expect them. “That means being vigilant, having a police force that is in touch with communities, it means the security services being ready, but it also means exchanging ideas and best practice”

[Kismit]

2 minutes ago, The Silver Thong said:

 You must mean Trump I assume but again as I said I could be wrong

Wasn`t Trump that created the terrorists, just sayin.

You know what they say about when we assume things.

This has nothing to do with Trump. And I'm pretty sure I made it clear it was the individual behind the killing who was responsible. From that point back through each individual is where the police and the governments need to work from. 

And luckily for us they are.

 

 

[Kismit]

12 minutes ago, Claire. said:

I just finished reading this opinion piece in the New York Times: The Jihadi State of Mind. The key point it brings forward is that this 'state of mind' is not limited to Islamic extremists. The author states:

There is now what we might call a “jihadi state of mind,” in which some mixture of social disengagement, moral dissolution, unleavened misanthropy and inchoate rage drives some to see the most abhorrent expressions of violence as a kind of revolt. It is a state of mind that finds its most vicious, barbaric form in Islamist terror. But it’s not only in Islamist terror that it finds expression.

And he's right.  Yet, when incidents like the Manchester bombing happen, we seem to forget that, don't we. We forget that people like Damon Smith (a Brit who was found guilty of planting a homemade bomb filled with ball bearings on a London Underground train) is not an Islamic extremist or someone who thought of themselves as Muslim. We forget that Dylann Roof (who shot dead nine African-American worshipers in a church in Charleston, S.C., in 2015) is also not an Islamic extremist. We forget that acts of terror can, and are, carried out by people from all walks or life and religions.

i hate to imagine what the Manchester victims went through. The fear, the panic, the pain... And now in the aftermath what their families are going through, not to mention those victims who have a long road of recovery ahead of them. None of them will ever get over it.

That's right terrorism is not a religion. Terrorists are individuals who don't care that their beliefs hurt others. And then carry out hate crimes.

We have to fight the hate.

[+and-then]

5 hours ago, aztek said:

we should not ignore other place where radicalization takes place, prisons. 

They should be segregated completely from non-Muslims and if someone converts then they need to be removed from the genpop.

[F3SS]

24 minutes ago, Claire. said:

We forget that people like Damon Smith (a Brit who was found guilty of planting a homemade bomb filled with ball bearings on a London Underground train) is not an Islamic extremist or someone who thought of themselves as Muslim. We forget that Dylann Roof

That's still beating around the bush and avoiding the fact that those two aren't part of a worldwide connected death cult. They had no ties to anyone but themselves and no agenda but their own.

[The Silver Thong]

22 minutes ago, Kismit said:

You know what they say about when we assume things.

This has nothing to do with Trump. And I'm pretty sure I made it clear it was the individual behind the killing who was responsible. From that point back through each individual is where the police and the governments need to work from. 

And luckily for us they are.

 

 

 

I knew you would say that, I`m getting to know you

[+and-then]

15 minutes ago, Kismit said:

That's right terrorism is not a religion. Terrorists are individuals who don't care that their beliefs hurt others. And then carry out hate crimes.

We have to fight the hate.

When the hate is demonstrably of a focused nature with predictable targets, I'd say that targeting it first makes more sense than looking all over for every possible source and diluting the effort.  This IS hate but it isn't mindless.  It is very focused and goal oriented.  THEY are at war with us, whether we deny it or not.

[Kismit]

6 minutes ago, F3SS said:

That's still beating around the bush and avoiding the fact that those two aren't part of a worldwide connected death cult. They had no ties to anyone but themselves and no agenda but their own.

Dylan Roof was a white supremacist and neo natzi.

You are right we have no evidence that he was sent by a leader in the white supremacists. But it is still a hate crime inspired by a mindset.