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Explosions in Manchester


Torchwood

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1 minute ago, Kismit said:

Haha and lol. Ok it's agressive. But anyone here who would like to disagree that the terrorist responsible for this heinous act is a scumbag?

I think the misunderstanding is kinda on me,i brought up Trump threads and your response about the media giving scumbags attention automatically brings to mind what lefties say about Trump constantly lol.

Though i will say i havn't seen much "leaning" from you in the politics section o i kinda just read it as you meant it...my apologies folks :lol:

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4 minutes ago, Kismit said:

Haha and lol. Ok it's agressive. But anyone here who would like to disagree that the terrorist responsible for this heinous act is a scumbag?

My view is he was deluded and probably foolish, gullible and arrogant.  The scumbag part comes from a willingness to kill people, so there are a lot of those around.

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18 minutes ago, CrimsonKing said:

I agree but as i've said previously,the answer to winning this war is to let other muslims stay home and fight it themselves...

Bringing in thousands upon thousands of refugees into our countries not really knowing who they are is foolish!Having "watchlists" of people traveling from sponsoring countries back and forth and not being able to do anything at all out of fear of being "racist" until they accomplish their goal is foolish!

I know i know "most of these things have nothing to do with refugees"

While correct we still bring in many who should be staying at home fighting this themselves and their next generation sees US troops over there fighting their people and poof...we get a reaction!

As with Syria that is a "civil" war and not our place,yet if folks like Mcain get their way we will be on the ground there for 15 plus years while a generation grows up back in the US seeing what the evil US is doing to their people...

I know it's a different world now days and correct me if i'm wrong,but Americans fought the US civil war not Syrians,Iraqi's,ect. and i havn't read any stories of countries opening their arms to take in hundreds of thousands of Americans at the time...War is hell,the solution though isn't to spread that hell willingly.

I agree with quite a lot of what you are saying. I also understand that many people travel between sponsor countries that are not terrorists. I myself travel so much I am sure I have been put on a watch list at some stage. But I travel to see my family which I would refer to as a non-naferious act but some of my family are quite dodgy. Not terrorist dodgy though.

It is not a refugee problem and it's not quite accurate to equte Syria with the American civil war. The refugees are fleeing a conflict that has put them in physical danger. The American civil war was fought in fields and in most cases the civilians where safe

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6 minutes ago, Kismit said:

 

It is not a refugee problem and it's not quite accurate to equte Syria with the American civil war. The refugees are fleeing a conflict that has put them in physical danger. The American civil war was fought in fields and in most cases the civilians where safe

While true as i said "different times" but many soldiers in the Civil war weren't grown adults,they fought with what they had...

Also other muslim countries should be bearing more of the refugee burden,but because of different variations of that single religion they can't even stand each other!Now if they constantly war with each other over different sects of 1 religion,how in hell is it a great idea to put them into something completely foreign to their ways...meh i got no answers either lol

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5 hours ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

That's a bit unfair.

shes like 12 and probsbly bricking it that it could have been her blown up. I fully understand it if every single person who was at the concert or near the concert never actually gives a single thought to another person. They're children, or were once children so recently they might as well still be children. It was two days ago, theyrevall still in "run and hide" mode. 

Shecmight be a public figure and a role model, but she's also a human being who could very possibly have just met death for the first time. 

Off by a decade, she will be 24 next month... but her level of maturity (thus far) would make me think more like 12 too! 

 

But in all seriousness, nobody that was in that Stadium is a Child anymore.  :angry:

5 hours ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

 

You want dumb? You want something to castigate?

the Tweeters who are all showing random photos claiming their of their missing kids. Leave the poor kids who got caught up in this massacre alone. It's not just the ones with shrapnel wounds who are victims here.

Huh?

If that means what I think it means....  have people in general lost their damned minds, or what?

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28 minutes ago, Kismit said:

It is not a refugee problem and it's not quite accurate to equte Syria with the American civil war. The refugees are fleeing a conflict that has put them in physical danger. The American civil war was fought in fields and in most cases the civilians where safe

I guess you've never heard of the burning of Atlanta. Entire towns were destroyed, farms would be looted at gunpoint and people killed for objecting to their property being confiscated to feed the enemy's soldiers.

Some people dig in and fight...others flee.

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13 minutes ago, Michelle said:

I guess you've never heard of the burning of Atlanta. Entire towns were destroyed, farms would be looted at gunpoint and people killed for objecting to their property being confiscated to feed the enemy's soldiers.

Some people dig in and fight...others flee.

Different wars.  Im sure innocent people ran from this sort of thing. Without access to the same travel we have their refugee status was unlikely to be that of someone fleeing the country. Unless they went to parts of the country that where friendly to thier sides. 

Different wars and different times.

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10 minutes ago, Kismit said:

Different wars.  Im sure innocent people ran from this sort of thing. Without access to the same travel we have their refugee status was unlikely to be that of someone fleeing the country. Unless they went to parts of the country that where friendly to thier sides. 

Different wars and different times.

The Civil War was mostly fought on the east coast. All they had to do was go west. Escaped slaves walked for thousands of miles to get to a more neutral area. Innocent people weren't willing to leave their homes for the most part. We are a stubborn people. We don't usually voluntarily walk away from what we have worked so hard to attain.

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Breaking: 
Manchester attack latest: Controlled explosion at Moss Side address as police probe 'network'
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/24/manchester-attack-latest-detectives-hunt-terror-network/

 

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5 hours ago, Dark_Grey said:

Reminds me a lot of the Orlando Nightclub shooter's father, also a landed immigrant.

You know, before he was outed as a vocal supporter of the Taliban.

This father has been outed also.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/24/renegade-libyan-faction-accuses-britain-nurturing-manchester/

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44 minutes ago, seeder said:

Breaking: 
Manchester attack latest: Controlled explosion at Moss Side address as police probe 'network'
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/24/manchester-attack-latest-detectives-hunt-terror-network/

 

Hopefully finding this stopped one more nut from pulling off an attack.

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3 hours ago, Claire. said:

And he's right.  Yet, when incidents like the Manchester bombing happen, we seem to forget that, don't we. We forget that people like Damon Smith (a Brit who was found guilty of planting a homemade bomb filled with ball bearings on a London Underground train) is not an Islamic extremist or someone who thought of themselves as Muslim. We forget that Dylann Roof (who shot dead nine African-American worshipers in a church in Charleston, S.C., in 2015) is also not an Islamic extremist. We forget that acts of terror can, and are, carried out by people from all walks or life and religions.

Yes, terrorism affects all parts of the world in varying degrees, based on religion, politics or the disturbed thought processes of individual nutjobs.

You can't just ignore the elephant in the room though. In the last few years alone we've shared our sympathies and expressed our rage on UM time and again over atrocities in Paris, Nice, Brussels, Berlin, London, Manchester - an ever growing list. And these are just the largest ones. How many smaller attacks have been covered on a weekly basis?

We WILL see more atrocities in the coming weeks, months and years if nothing is done to address the root cause. Right now it's on my doorstep. Tomorrow it could be on the doorstep of anyone reading this thread.

The one common factor? Islam.

It doesn't matter which way you disseminate this fact, the bottom line is that the religion is taught and enforced in such a way that it dominates all aspects of a person's life. For many it comes above country, law and even family.

It is taught in such a way that the step from moderate Islam to radical Islam, while most don't take it, is a shorter one than in any other major religion, outside of the fanatics on the fringes.

I can't think of another single religion in Britain that so wholely consumes a person's identity, and I can't think of another religion that causes so much controversy.

I'm not religious at all, but I don't find the behaviour of other minority faiths in Britain offensive. I'm not offended by Sikhism, Hinduism, Judaism, Buddhism, etc. I'm not offended by the customary dress and traditions of other faiths. I'm not even offended when some of these faiths form fairly closed communities in Britain, as I don't believe that anything sinister is happening in the vast majority of churches, temples and synagogues around the country.

When governments actually find the courage to go against political correctness and address why certain aspects of Islam are considered both controversial and offensive in Western societies, then - and only then - will we be able to move forward somewhat peacefully.

Edited by LV-426
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1 hour ago, Michelle said:

I guess you've never heard of the burning of Atlanta. Entire towns were destroyed, farms would be looted at gunpoint and people killed for objecting to their property being confiscated to feed the enemy's soldiers.

Some people dig in and fight...others flee.

You still complaining about that?  You should have seen what the Catholics did to Northern Germany during the 30 years'  war.

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4 minutes ago, LV-426 said:

Yes, terrorism affects all parts of the world in varying degrees, based on religion, politics or the disturbed thought processes of individual nutjobs.

You can't just ignore the elephant in the room though. In the last few years alone we've shared our sympathies and expressed our rage on UM time and again over atrocities in Paris, Nice, Brussels, Berlin, London, Manchester - an ever growing list. And these are just the largest ones. How many smaller attacks have been covered on a weekly basis?

We WILL see more atrocities in the coming weeks, months and years if nothing is done to address the root cause. Right now it's on my doorstep. Tomorrow it could be on the doorstep of anyone reading this thread.

The one common factor? Islam.

It doesn't matter which way you disseminate this fact, the bottom line is that the religion is taught and enforced in such a way that it dominates all aspects of a person's life. For many it comes above country, law and even family.

It is taught in such a way that the step from moderate Islam to radical Islam, while most don't take it, is a shorter one than in any other major religion, outside of the fanatics on the fringes.

I can't think of another single religion in Britain that so wholely consumes a person's identity, and I can't think of another religion that causes so much controversy.

I'm not religious at all, but I don't find the behaviour of other minority faiths in Britain offensive. I'm not offended by Sikhism, Hinduism, Judaism, Buddhism, etc. I'm not offended by the customary dress and traditions of other faiths. I'm not even offended when some of these faiths form fairly closed communities in Britain, as I don't believe that anything sinister is happening in the vast majority of churches, temples and synagogues around the country.

When governments actually find the courage to go against political correctness and address why certain aspects of Islam are considered both controversial and offensive in Western societies, then - and only then - will we be able to move forward somewhat peacefully.

Christianity was no different, but it reformed.  Even now you see signs of major change in attitudes in Iran and the Gulf.

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2 minutes ago, Frank Merton said:

You still complaining about that?  You should have seen what the Catholics did to Northern Germany during the 30 years'  war.

If correcting a misconception is complaining then I'm guilty.

Get off my ass, old man.

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17 minutes ago, LV-426 said:

Yes, terrorism affects all parts of the world in varying degrees, based on religion, politics or the disturbed thought processes of individual nutjobs.

You can't just ignore the elephant in the room though. In the last few years alone we've shared our sympathies and expressed our rage on UM time and again over atrocities in Paris, Nice, Brussels, Berlin, London, Manchester - an ever growing list. And these are just the largest ones. How many smaller attacks have been covered on a weekly basis?

We WILL see more atrocities in the coming weeks, months and years if nothing is done to address the root cause. Right now it's on my doorstep. Tomorrow it could be on the doorstep of anyone reading this thread.

The one common factor? Islam.

It doesn't matter which way you disseminate this fact, the bottom line is that the religion is taught and enforced in such a way that it dominates all aspects of a person's life. For many it comes above country, law and even family.

It is taught in such a way that the step from moderate Islam to radical Islam, while most don't take it, is a shorter one than in any other major religion, outside of the fanatics on the fringes.

I can't think of another single religion in Britain that so wholely consumes a person's identity, and I can't think of another religion that causes so much controversy.

I'm not religious at all, but I don't find the behaviour of other minority faiths in Britain offensive. I'm not offended by Sikhism, Hinduism, Judaism, Buddhism, etc. I'm not offended by the customary dress and traditions of other faiths. I'm not even offended when some of these faiths form fairly closed communities in Britain, as I don't believe that anything sinister is happening in the vast majority of churches, temples and synagogues around the country.

When governments actually find the courage to go against political correctness and address why certain aspects of Islam are considered both controversial and offensive in Western societies, then - and only then - will we be able to move forward somewhat peacefully.

I wonder how I can show you that it is not Islam itself, but only radical elements in Islam, and that the religion, like all Abrahamic religions, has regrettable teachings that can be overcome over time with patience and showing how they conflict with the higher morality also in these religions.  The problem now is mostly Islam because of the refugee problems and the civil wars.  Christianity went through a very similar period.  There remain radical Christians now, spewing hate, but for the most part they have leaned that terrorism is counter-productive.  

Also, I see nothing to be achieved by blaming the religion when all agree that there are many if not most Muslims who are good people and deserve good treatment.  It would not be possible nor morally acceptable to try to eliminate the relligion, yet that is the implied procedure in blaming the religion for the terrorism.

There are obviously no easy solutions, but vigil and persistence over time will help.  Also important will be the steady elimination from the Middle East itself of the inspirations for this sort of violence -- and most Muslim countries are devoted to just that.

 

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3 hours ago, docyabut2 said:

Lets face the facts these terrorists are part of the Islam religion :( that wants to kill us all to rule.

Bingo

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Quote

 

Manchester attack: May to tackle Trump over 'evidence' leaks

Theresa May is to raise concerns with Donald Trump after evidence from the Manchester Arena bombing was apparently leaked to US media.

UK officials were "furious" when photos appearing to show debris from the attack appeared in the New York Times.

The prime minister is expected to raise the issue with the US president when they meet at a Nato summit later.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40040210


 

 

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4 hours ago, thedutchiedutch said:

 

That is so taken out of context. The mayor is advocating for more city preparedness and for Londoners to help combat terror threats.
The mayor of London said that he believes the threat of terror attacks are “part and parcel of living in a big city” and encouraged Londoners to be vigilant to combat dangers.
The Mayor of London revealed he had a “sleepless night” after the recent bombing in New York, and said major cities around the world “have got to be prepared for these sorts of things” to happen when people least expect them. “That means being vigilant, having a police force that is in touch with communities, it means the security services being ready, but it also means exchanging ideas and best practice”

and yet you fail to mention what threat and by who.  It`s not taken out of context, what he`s saying is this is just begging get use to it.

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3 hours ago, CrimsonKing said:

She was talking about the scumbag who did the attack in Britain,so kinda just calling a spade a spade ;)

Yes and no we can call a spade a spade. The guy was a scumbag but naming his reason or religion is frownd on because we all must be progressive and tolerant. I think that time is comming close to an end.  People are waking up and starting to see the the underlying issue. 

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4 hours ago, and then said:

They should be segregated completely from non-Muslims and if someone converts then they need to be removed from the genpop.

Sounds harsh but I kind of agree. It`s like giving Charles Manson a room with a hundred inmates and not expecting a few to come out a bit ummm well converted so to speak.

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4 hours ago, and then said:

When the hate is demonstrably of a focused nature with predictable targets, I'd say that targeting it first makes more sense than looking all over for every possible source and diluting the effort.  This IS hate but it isn't mindless.  It is very focused and goal oriented.  THEY are at war with us, whether we deny it or not.

It is a war that most don`t see and right now we are losing.

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1 minute ago, The Silver Thong said:

It is a war that most don`t see and right now we are losing.

The only way to lose is to actively engage. We arn't losing. We are suffering fatalities. 

Take a good solid look at the world and all of the people who are not extremists there are many many more of us than there is them.

And their attacks achieve nothing. Nothing!

If we engage they get the holy war they are after. 

If this where an actual war they wouldn't have a chance. We have the people, we have the arms, and we have more military intelligence than they could ever imagine. Together the allied forces would anihalte them. Unfortunately innocents would die and engaging would breed more terrorists putting more people at risk.

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Just now, susieice said:

Wow seeder! I've been posting what I'm hearing, mostly on FOX or CNN, because I'm not always sure what I'm hearing is correct. I have been checking a lot of English sources also. I had no idea the US media may have been releasing things prematurely that could compromise the investigation. I agree it should be addressed if that's the case. Our own police withhold information until they feel it's ok to release it.

 

Indeed. Another poster a few pages back made some snide comments that the UK would have kept his identity a secret....and that it takes the US to name the terrorist..... and I cant be bothered to go back and find the post

But yes....in any serious investigation the police have every reason to hold back info...for the simple reason that by naming any suspect quickly in the media, any associates will get freaked out and destroy any evidence, cover their tracks, or even leave the country

So our PM has every reason to be angry...

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2 minutes ago, seeder said:

 

Indeed. Another poster a few pages back made some snide comments that the UK would have kept his identity a secret....and that it takes the US to name the terrorist..... and I cant be bothered to go back and find the post

But yes....in any serious investigation the police have every reason to hold back info...for the simple reason that by naming any suspect quickly in the media, any associates will get freaked out and destroy any evidence, cover their tracks, or even leave the country

So our PM has every reason to be angry...

I do understand. When making things public knowledge, you need to understand the impact of what you are releasing. I can't believe US media got sensitive information that quickly. 

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