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Explosions in Manchester


Torchwood

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11 hours ago, acute said:

"Known Wolf"

I like that! :tu:

Right?  It's PERFECT!  I have a special love for words and especially when they capture a meaning so well.  Hat-tip to OverSword for a real winner!

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10 minutes ago, seanjo said:

Saudi is our 'friend'.

 

No, Saudis are just a customer...with a huge purse

 

Quote

 

US-Saudi Arabia seal weapons deal worth nearly $110 billion immediately, $350 billion over 10 years

http://www.cnbc.com/2017/05/20/us-saudi-arabia-seal-weapons-deal-worth-nearly-110-billion-as-trump-begins-visit.html


 

 

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We have to stop lieing to ourselves. We know what the threat is and we need to take a stand. If we don`t our kids and there kids will be living in a very differnt world. The west is under attack and for some reason we are ok with it. Makes no sence.

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5 minutes ago, aztek said:

strangely , Islamic state is right next door to israel, you would think if their goal is worldwide caliphate, they had to attack their worst enemy, Jews, yet they keep killing their own fellow Muslims by thousands, but never attacked Israel, something is not what it seems. 

Because if full out war started with Israel it would be an ass whoppin. I`m a bit suprised that the Mossad hasn`t stepped in more.

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11 hours ago, Future ghost said:

Yeah, I don't know much about them, maybe they were smarter? When I say these people are successful I didn't mean to imply they were smart. It must take a group effort just to get a bomb inside a building, with a lot of planning involved. Of course, I could just be reading too much into it. It's probably really simple, I don't know.

One example of Guerrilla warfare is Vietnam beat the US using it.

Edited by The Silver Thong
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52 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

I think, the Reformation is slowly coming.

Iran took a massive step away from the dogmatic extremist in their last election, the Saudi will do whatever is good for business, the average Muslim on the street must be tired of being cast as "the bad guy" by now ... I think we're almost at critical mass for a Martin Luther. There was an Aussie Cleric on TV yesterday butting heads with another cleric shouting that their book "tells people to murder others". If the people with those sort of thoughts and ideas are starting to feel safe enough to express them on TV (therefore on record forever) ... it feels like the first wiff of the winds of change.

I wish I were as optimistic.

The problem is that for every Islamic nation looking to reform, there is another heading in the opposite direction, e.g. Turkey.

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Just now, LV-426 said:

I wish I were as optimistic.

The problem is that for every Islamic nation looking to reform, there is another heading in the opposite direction, e.g. Turkey.

Turkey is IMO less a case of culturally sliding into Extreme Sharia and more un volk, un reich, un furher if you get my drift.

Simon Reeve did a doco in Turkey after the attempted Coup and it's all cult of personality wearing the hat of religion rather than anything else. 

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4 hours ago, Dark_Grey said:

I can see a third way - Islamic reformation.

Nail, meet hammer...

Alas the person I was responding to had already discounted that as an option. They'll only get there when they get fed up of the violence and start talking. And maybe that has already started.  It must be encouraged. 

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41 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

Turkey is IMO less a case of culturally sliding into Extreme Sharia and more un volk, un reich, un furher if you get my drift.

Simon Reeve did a doco in Turkey after the attempted Coup and it's all cult of personality wearing the hat of religion rather than anything else. 

Possibly, but I can't see the situation improving.

It's not hard to imagine Turkey falling to civil war somewhere in the near future, as secular Turkey stands against Erdogan's vision of Turkey.

The refugee situation with Syria is already breaking Europe apart. Can you imagine the chaos if Turkey descends into civil war too?

I'm putting my doomsayer hat on again, but personally I think war in Europe is inevitable within the next decade. There are too many potential flashpoints, too many political, religious, social and cultural differences that will not be solved with conciliatory words and happy thoughts.

When I read through posts on UM, I note that there are maybe a handful who have actually experienced the horrors of war. We have some who've fought in overseas conflicts such as Vietnam, the Gulf and Iraq. We have even fewer that have experienced war on their own doorstep, such as in the Balkans.

Most have us, though we discuss the topic at length, have no concept of what it is like to live through war. The Millenial generation particularly so. They think "love can conquer all" and they don't even understand that the predominantly peaceful times we've enjoyed in the West since WWII, came about as millions of soldiers shed their blood and gave their lives for it to be possible. It didn't come about through conciliatory words and happy thoughts.

Some of the earlier posts talk of "Islamic reformation." Personally, I think it is too late, and the wheels are already in motion. You can't undo decades of governments talking about multicultularism and integration, while the reality outside of trendy metropolitan areas is closed communities and closed minds.

As a starting point, we need to stop allowing children to be brainwashed in Islamic schools, or even further remove all religion from schools, other than perhaps an academic study of ALL faiths.

Like I say though, personally I think it's too late. What we're reaping now is from seeds planted long ago

Edited by LV-426
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2 hours ago, The Silver Thong said:

One example of Guerrilla warfare is Vietnam beat the US using it.

The Vietnam war was a bit before my time, so I obviously can't recall anything from that time. Simply hearing about events that transpired is a poor substitute for actual memories, in my opinion. And before you say anything-- no, I didn't pay attention in school. ( obviously). :P

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4 hours ago, aztek said:

strangely , Islamic state is right next door to israel, you would think if their goal is worldwide caliphate, they had to attack their worst enemy, Jews, yet they keep killing their own fellow Muslims by thousands, but never attacked Israel, something is not what it seems. 

They only go after EASY targets, Israel is a little too tough for people with a 3rd-grade education who generally run for cover (preferably behind women and children) after 30 seconds of 'spray & pray'. 

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4 hours ago, The Silver Thong said:

One example of Guerrilla warfare is Vietnam beat the US using it.

Actually, no, they lost. Our troops beat that phase of the war and got a negotiated settlement in 1972 or 73. That's why we got our POWs back.

Then the Communists broke the treaty and invaded with a Conventional Army in late 1974-75, finishing it all off by April when the US declined to become involved directly once again. 

Our media has been lying to us for a long, long time.

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5 hours ago, and then said:

Right?  It's PERFECT!  I have a special love for words and especially when they capture a meaning so well.  Hat-tip to OverSword for a real winner!

Oh yeah, the Known Wolf thing, that's actually pretty good.

But let's take a step back here, that is NOT something we can rag on the Brits about when it is a very serious issue here in the US... and one our own Govt has been dropping the ball with for 8.5 years at least.

The Boston Bombers, the San Bernardino shooters, the Orlando Nightclub massacre ... that was all done by people on the US watch list. Watch... as in look, but don't touch.  <_<

Our trusted protectors have let us down even more badly than their's have, bigtime, and for a long time.

 

I say deport them, NOW. Associating with know criminals to commit acts of terror IS a crime. If there is an on-going investigation then skip that guy and go on to the next dozen or so. 

I don't think that Political Correctness is more important than everyone's right to stay alive.

 


 

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i used to work with electrician who was a tunnel rat,  he said before we found out about tunnels they were beating us, but once we discovered how they did it, it was over for them.  he told me they had very interesting revolver that was used in tunnels, self sealing shell would contain gases, no bang, no flame, it had very short barrel, no more than 1,5 in. it was smoothbore, and was shooting buck shot,, like a shotgun

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22 hours ago, The Silver Thong said:

and yet you fail to mention what threat and by who.  It`s not taken out of context, what he`s saying is this is just begging get use to it.

?? I have no clue what you mean. I am clearly responding to your post in this thread # 312. The words of the mayor are taken out of context. Have you even read the full interview ?

 

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2 hours ago, thedutchiedutch said:

?? I have no clue

 

Your right

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Quote

 

Middle-England terror cell: Police fear a SECOND bomb made by Manchester Arena suicide attacker is in the hands of his accomplices as they carry out raids across Britain to destroy the jihadi network

    A huge stash of explosive chemicals was allegedly found at the home of killer Salman Abedi by police
    Quantity of material has sparked fears that he could have build more than one device and distributed them
    Ten people have been arrested since Monday's atrocity, which claimed the lives of 22 innocent people
    One line of inquiry is that Abedi traveled to Syria, where he met up with other Islamic extremists
    Police carried out searches in St Helens, Merseyside, and Moss Side, Manchester, on Friday morning


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4543336/Police-fear-SECOND-bomb-hands-jihadists.html#ixzz4iAYpGsM2


 

 

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8 minutes ago, Torchwood said:

Deport Who now?

Them.

 

 

 

do read what he said. He wants them deported. You know. Those darsdardly them.

Who or what are them?

giant ants I suspect.

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On 25/05/2017 at 2:20 AM, The Silver Thong said:

This was not a lone wolf attack  I Don`t think any of them are. . It will happen again and soon. I wish I knew where but I don`t.  Isis is not dumb, they know how to play us.

 

they know how to play each other as well --- ie. how the older men and Imams must be encouraging and passing on the
militant jihadist teaching to the younger generations - taking advantage of naturally adventurous youth to fight for the 
cause and spread of Islam - (although all  suicide attackers aren't young)

when they put a picture of who is said to have been the biggest recruiter for IS in the Manchester area I couldn't believe it -
he only looked about 12 years old.!.... but he was in his early twenties -

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4541496/The-baby-faced-ISIS-recruiter-knew-Manchester-bomber.html

Hostey, a baby-faced one-time rapper, lived close to Abedi in Moss Side and they worshipped in the same Didsbury mosque.

But in 2013, the graphic design student left his wife and child to travel to Syria. 

Leaked ISIS files show Hostey - nom de guerre Abu Qaqaa al Britani - recruited hundreds of terror recruits to join the warped caliphate, including at least 16 from Manchester, a Sky News investigation found.

 


 

 

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Scrolled back but didn't see this posted.....now She's a class act....just want to give her a hug...lol 

Queen Elizabeth visits victims of 'very wicked' Manchester attack

Queen Elizabeth described the terror attack that left 22 people dead in Manchester as "very wicked" during a visit to Royal Manchester Children's Hospital, according to the UK Press Association.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/25/europe/queen-elizabeth-manchester-attack/

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.

also an interesting bit from the same link I posted --- they say it's not sure that he is the same man -

but.... the fact that it could be is significant in regards to the underground IS movement spreading around
mosques that try to portray themselves as peaceful and not supportive of the Global Jihad...

when really they are behind closed doors...?

These are the kind of people - the hard line Islamists who Gaddafi was keeping at bay in Libya - and who were
released into action and power in Libya with the support of Cameron, Hague, Sarkozy, Clinton, Obama back in 2011 -

If only we had kept out of Libya..... 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4541496/The-baby-faced-ISIS-recruiter-knew-Manchester-bomber.html

 

The news came as an Imam at the mosque regularly attended by Abedi and Hostey was also alleged to be a rebel who fought against Colonel Gaddafi’s regime. 

Mustafa Abdullah Graf, stood alongside members of the steps of Didsbury Mosque in Manchester, on Wednesday, when they made a statement condemning the slaughter Abedi had caused.

It emerged last night that a person who resembled Iman Graf, who stood alongside the mosque’s spokesman, had been seen on camera in the desert when he fought in the Arab Spring, Newsnight reported.

Dressed in military fatigues, with a Libyan flag flying in the background, a man with the same name spoke to the Al-Jazeera News channel in 2011 and was also seen stood amongst other Libyan rebels as they prepared to fight Colonel Gaddafi’s government forces.

It is not clear which group he fought for, or whether the two men are in fact the same person.


.

 

 

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11 hours ago, LV-426 said:

Possibly, but I can't see the situation improving.

It's not hard to imagine Turkey falling to civil war somewhere in the near future, as secular Turkey stands against Erdogan's vision of Turkey.

The refugee situation with Syria is already breaking Europe apart. Can you imagine the chaos if Turkey descends into civil war too?

I'm putting my doomsayer hat on again, but personally I think war in Europe is inevitable within the next decade. There are too many potential flashpoints, too many political, religious, social and cultural differences that will not be solved with conciliatory words and happy thoughts.

When I read through posts on UM, I note that there are maybe a handful who have actually experienced the horrors of war. We have some who've fought in overseas conflicts such as Vietnam, the Gulf and Iraq. We have even fewer that have experienced war on their own doorstep, such as in the Balkans.

Most have us, though we discuss the topic at length, have no concept of what it is like to live through war. The Millenial generation particularly so. They think "love can conquer all" and they don't even understand that the predominantly peaceful times we've enjoyed in the West since WWII, came about as millions of soldiers shed their blood and gave their lives for it to be possible. It didn't come about through conciliatory words and happy thoughts.

Some of the earlier posts talk of "Islamic reformation." Personally, I think it is too late, and the wheels are already in motion. You can't undo decades of governments talking about multicultularism and integration, while the reality outside of trendy metropolitan areas is closed communities and closed minds.

As a starting point, we need to stop allowing children to be brainwashed in Islamic schools, or even further remove all religion from schools, other than perhaps an academic study of ALL faiths.

Like I say though, personally I think it's too late. What we're reaping now is from seeds planted long ago

.

good post --- and re the bolded 

it's crazy that we can't (won't) even do this -

Many people can see what's coming down the line as the Islamic colonization of Britain / Europe.. continues
(with some overlap but  it still more or less colonization because we aren't prepared to discourage a political
organization with a religious front - )......

We've tied ourselves in knots with the ''''religious freedom'''' thing - and now Islam is deeply embedded in our society -
 + legal and political processes -

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1 hour ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

Them.

 

 

 

do read what he said. He wants them deported. You know. Those darsdardly them.

Who or what are them?

giant ants I suspect.

Oh, them, well now, he should have said; we can deport them, no problem, I'll get right on it...

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12 minutes ago, bee said:

good post --- and re the bolded 

it's crazy that we can't (won't) even do this -

Many people can see what's coming down the line as the Islamic colonization of Britain / Europe.. continues
(with some overlap but  it still more or less colonization because we aren't prepared to discourage a political
organization with a religious front - )......

We've tied ourselves in knots with the ''''religious freedom'''' thing - and now Islam is deeply embedded in our society -
 + legal and political processes -. 

 

The problem is twofold.

On the one hand, we're allowing Muslim children to be brainwashed with antiquated beliefs in Islamic schools, in the largest growth area of the population. Linking an earlier post I made...

... that is an estimated growth of over 3% in the Muslim population of Britain in the next thirteen years, with some areas in the country already having Muslim populations as high as 25 to 35% - as a reference to current events, Manchester is currently around 16%.

On the other hand, non-Muslim children are being equally brainwashed with liberal, politcally correct tolerance of anything and everything. While Muslim children are being taught "the only way is Islam", a local Catholic high school is hosting a speech by a transgender author.

We're breeding a generation of victims. If nothing changes, in another decade or so, these people will be driven into the ground, and they won't have a clue why. They won't comprehend why their mantra of "hope not hate" is falling on deaf ears.

It's not even a question of what is right and wrong. It's simply maths.

There's no voice for common sense middle ground opinions any more, that would see both extremes reigned in and moderated. It's a recipe for disaster.

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