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DanL

UFOs, Cryptid Beasts, Ghosts...???

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DanL

UFOs, Cryptid Beasts, Ghosts, Alien abduction and Psychic phenomena...??? Everyone has their opinions and beliefs about each of these. Each side defends their point of view with almost rabid ferver at times. Here is what I would like to discuss with you. This is not a debate where there are going to be winners and losers. Let us just try and figure out or maybe just better understand an amazing phenomenon. Whether you believe or doubt or as even sure it is all bunk, how do we explain the multitude of seemingly pretty sane and normal people that have seen or experienced these things???

If everyone that thinks that they have seen a Bigfoot is right then those hairy rascals are all over the place and there are a LOT of them. If so why are they still cryptids. A lot of these people are trained observers like cops and such that have nothing to gain from making up a lie about this.

How can so many people share such odd experiences and all be either mistaken, delusional or liars. If these were all just a bunch of lowlife druggies or drunks that would be easy to ignore but the ranks of people that have seen or experienced things include people like presidents, Doctors, lawyers and even a few scientists.

If it is a psychosis it is huge and needs to be figured out because it is affecting a LOT of people. How do we respond to seemingly sane people that have had extremely unlikely experiences? I assure you they are not all stupid, or crazy in the traditional sense. In an effort to be honest I will tell you that I am one of the people that has seen and experienced things that defy my understanding. I know what I've seen and experienced but also don't claim to understand it. ???

 

 

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oldrover

I don't see what you're getting at here, if it's we should debate fairly the evidence to determine what the most likely explanations are for these phenomena, then yes I'd agree. 

But it seems that you're suggesting that the volume of witness reports is significant, in which case I can't agree with that. Nor with any suggestion, which I may have misinfered,  that a doctor, solicitor, or policeman make a better witness they don't, neither does a scientist. All of these professionals are just people and as fallible as anyone else, that why they work within systems to validate their evidence. And a chance observation can rarely if ever have these systems of critical analysis applied to them. 

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Nuclear Wessel
Quote

how do we explain the multitude of seemingly pretty sane and normal people that have seen or experienced these things???

Immediately after reading this the word "attention" came to mind... I think a lot of stories are merely just hollow claims made by people to get their "fifteen minutes of fame", so to speak. Though just because an individual appears "sane" and "normal" doesn't mean that they can't have a yearning for attention, nor does it mean that they can't make up lies to receive said attention. However, assuming that they really did have some kind of an experience...

  1. Are they actually sane/normal? Just because they seem sane/normal doesn't mean that they are. Perhaps they have some undiagnosed mental health illnesses that need to be addressed.
  2. If they really are sane/normal, were they under conditions that may have caused them to hallucinate or otherwise mistake what they saw for something else? Were they drunk at the time, or under the influence of any kind of hallucinogenic drug? If they weren't, were they tired or under a lot of stress?
  3. If they were not drunk or under the influence of any kind of drug and were not involved in any conditions that could impact their psyche, perhaps what they experienced was actually a perfectly normal phenomena that they didn't have an explanation for at the time? Perhaps they had a sporadic temporal lobe epileptic seizure? Perhaps they were being impacted by the effects of infrasound?
Quote

If everyone that thinks that they have seen a Bigfoot is right then those hairy rascals are all over the place and there are a LOT of them. 

Yep. As far as science is currently concerned, though, these creatures don't actually exist.

Quote

If so why are they still cryptids.

Are they?

Quote

A lot of these people are trained observers like cops and such that have nothing to gain from making up a lie about this.

Irrelevant! They are human, and thus their minds are fallible. They are still able to make up stories and they are still able to misinterpret what they are seeing.

Quote

How can so many people share such odd experiences and all be either mistaken, delusional or liars.

This is because of the nature of our minds. It is highly prone to suggestion and cognitive biases; it is a very fallible thing, that is why such a thing called "the scientific method" exists. Using said method as it should be reduces room for human error.

Quote

If these were all just a bunch of lowlife druggies or drunks that would be easy to ignore but the ranks of people that have seen or experienced things include people like presidents, Doctors, lawyers and even a few scientists.

Their occupations aren't relevant, though... their minds are still prone to biases and misinterpretation, as all humans minds are.

Quote

If it is a psychosis it is huge and needs to be figured out because it is affecting a LOT of people.

If it is, I certainly agree... but there is no evidence that it truly is a psychosis--there are a lot of explanations as to why somebody had an "experience" that don't include psychosis, which also does not include something that goes beyond the realm of science or nature.

Quote

How do we respond to seemingly sane people that have had extremely unlikely experiences?

I can't speak for others, but with me I always approach unlikely claims with scepticism... in fact, I approach pretty much every truth claim with scepticism, regardless of the context. I am always researching things for verification. 

Quote

I assure you they are not all stupid, or crazy in the traditional sense.

It is pretty unlikely that they are all stupid or crazy "in the traditional sense", I agree.

Quote

In an effort to be honest I will tell you that I am one of the people that has seen and experienced things that defy my understanding.

And I will be waiting for details of your experience, just don't expect me to sugarcoat my response. I will tell you exactly what I think of your experience! Remember... just because it defies your understanding does not mean that there is not a perfectly rational explanation for your experience.

Quote

I know what I've seen and experienced but also don't claim to understand it. ???

I have no doubts that you have experienced something interesting. Please tell me about it!

EDIT: Please forgive me, but I think this is in the incorrect section!

Edited by Nuclear Wessel
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Future ghost
1 hour ago, Nuclear Wessel said:

Immediately after reading this the word "attention" came to mind... I think a lot of stories are merely just hollow claims made by people to get their "fifteen minutes of fame", so to speak. Though just because an individual appears "sane" and "normal" doesn't mean that they can't have a yearning for attention, nor does it mean that they can't make up lies to receive said attention. However, assuming that they really did have some kind of an experience...

  1. Are they actually sane/normal? Just because they seem sane/normal doesn't mean that they are. Perhaps they have some undiagnosed mental health illnesses that need to be addressed.
  2. If they really are sane/normal, were they under conditions that may have caused them to hallucinate or otherwise mistake what they saw for something else? Were they drunk at the time, or under the influence of any kind of hallucinogenic drug? If they weren't, were they tired or under a lot of stress?
  3. If they were not drunk or under the influence of any kind of drug and were not involved in any conditions that could impact their psyche, perhaps what they experienced was actually a perfectly normal phenomena that they didn't have an explanation for at the time? Perhaps they had a sporadic temporal lobe epileptic seizure? Perhaps they were being impacted by the effects of infrasound?

Yep. As far as science is currently concerned, though, these creatures don't actually exist.

Are they?

Irrelevant! They are human, and thus their minds are fallible. They are still able to make up stories and they are still able to misinterpret what they are seeing.

This is because of the nature of our minds. It is highly prone to suggestion and cognitive biases; it is a very fallible thing, that is why such a thing called "the scientific method" exists. Using said method as it should be reduces room for human error.

Their occupations aren't relevant, though... their minds are still prone to biases and misinterpretation, as all humans minds are.

If it is, I certainly agree... but there is no evidence that it truly is a psychosis--there are a lot of explanations as to why somebody had an "experience" that don't include psychosis, which also does not include something that goes beyond the realm of science or nature.

I can't speak for others, but with me I always approach unlikely claims with scepticism... in fact, I approach pretty much every truth claim with scepticism, regardless of the context. I am always researching things for verification. 

It is pretty unlikely that they are all stupid or crazy "in the traditional sense", I agree.

And I will be waiting for details of your experience, just don't expect me to sugarcoat my response. I will tell you exactly what I think of your experience! Remember... just because it defies your understanding does not mean that there is not a perfectly rational explanation for your experience.

I have no doubts that you have experienced something interesting. Please tell me about it!

EDIT: Please forgive me, but I think this is in the incorrect section!

While I do agree that there is usually a logical explanation for these experiences, I was curious as to your opinion regarding shared experiences. How can multiple people witness the same things at the same time? Is it some kind of group hallucination ? I've been wondering about this for a while, so any input would be great.

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Clarakore
12 hours ago, DanL said:

UFOs, Cryptid Beasts, Ghosts, Alien abduction and Psychic phenomena...??? Everyone has their opinions and beliefs about each of these. Each side defends their point of view with almost rabid ferver at times. Here is what I would like to discuss with you. This is not a debate where there are going to be winners and losers. Let us just try and figure out or maybe just better understand an amazing phenomenon. Whether you believe or doubt or as even sure it is all bunk, how do we explain the multitude of seemingly pretty sane and normal people that have seen or experienced these things???

If everyone that thinks that they have seen a Bigfoot is right then those hairy rascals are all over the place and there are a LOT of them. If so why are they still cryptids. A lot of these people are trained observers like cops and such that have nothing to gain from making up a lie about this.

How can so many people share such odd experiences and all be either mistaken, delusional or liars. If these were all just a bunch of lowlife druggies or drunks that would be easy to ignore but the ranks of people that have seen or experienced things include people like presidents, Doctors, lawyers and even a few scientists.

If it is a psychosis it is huge and needs to be figured out because it is affecting a LOT of people. How do we respond to seemingly sane people that have had extremely unlikely experiences? I assure you they are not all stupid, or crazy in the traditional sense. In an effort to be honest I will tell you that I am one of the people that has seen and experienced things that defy my understanding. I know what I've seen and experienced but also don't claim to understand it. ???

 

 

All of these exists in our neurons. Just as much as you exist in my neurons and as all those you know and have met exists in yours.

The difference might be the the paranormal beings might be projections of self, meaning one person generates them. Even in a group setting one is projecting them.

(In my mother's small hometown she and others all saw a car land on power lines and then men exited the vehicle. While most wete freaking out she was younger so just clapped and marvelled over the fact that they could now fix the grid like that. Of course that was what she thought of as a fact. Then her view shifted to see inside the vehicle. She has been and seen other phenomena and I do believe she was generating this.)

As much as a poltergeist is generated by one person but anyone there will just see things moving on their own.

Most do not know poltergeist activity is being generated.

Brad and Sherry Steiger tell more about the usual people behind polyergeist activity.

It is usually a female but can be a male. In the age of puberty, a newlywed, or going under new sexual experiences.

Frustration is also a factor.

So using what the Steigers have put together I just applied it forward into these other phenomena.

Look to science to explain how other people exist in out neurons which acts as a sort of interface. So when one we know dies can appear as a healthy hallucinations which is part of grieving.

That is because their whole code is in our neurons. 

There are more neurons in one mind than there are stars in the whole universe.

To read more about neurons here are a couple of articles.

http://blog.brainfacts.org/2014/01/perception-and-imagination-a-neuroscientists-perspective/#.WSe_uyIo7qA

https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn7567-why-your-brain-has-a-jennifer-aniston-cell/

http://www.livescience.com/220-scientists-read-minds.html

 

Edited by I hide behind words

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Imaginarynumber1

Memory is not like most people think it is. It is not static and unchanging like a movie. It is mutable and ever changing. People often think, or are convinced. they have seen something that they have not. 

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Clarakore
1 minute ago, Imaginarynumber1 said:

Memory is not like most people think it is. It is not static and unchanging like a movie. It is mutable and ever changing. People often think, or are convinced. they have seen something that they have not. 

That works both ways. They can see something and find a way to write it off to fit their social expectations.

Of course memories change. We can even rewrite them so past events that seemed unhappy van become happy. Perhaps they were not unhappy to begin with.

Edited by I hide behind words

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Imaginarynumber1
Just now, I hide behind words said:

That works both ways. They can see something and find a way to write it off to fit their social expectations.

True. But there is also no reason to assume that something seen isn't just something ordinary. 

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Clarakore
44 minutes ago, Imaginarynumber1 said:

True. But there is also no reason to assume that something seen isn't just something ordinary. 

For one who has not had and known others to experience the preternatutal perhaps.

For those who have they do not assume nor do they fear.

For those who have negative experiences, they would have to offer their view as it would be another view.

And or course your skeptic view is noted but it is best suited to those who are likeminded.

Your use of the word "assume" puts you in that camp but others do not assume but know in part of more fully.

There is no need to convince skeptics or debate them. Everyone has their own paths and experiences.

Believers who need skeptics to validate their views should probably write off their views and join the skeptics. For those who do not need such validation because they have other believers, grounded, without negative issues, or associations then all is well.

Another category are those with wild imaginations who can then experience them. They are unique too but their world is mundane even with those elements.

And countless other categories exist including true skeptics, who are neither debunkers or cynics (two more groups), but truly have open minds and are on the fence. And that category is further subdivided by those who only choose to use scientific evidence which borders on rigdity and doctrinality, and those who await to have their own experiences or not and then provide proper self-analysis, which are the true skeptics.

But to allow a group or commitee to define, analyze, and filter your own experiences, lol.

Yes, anything built by commitee is going to be monstrous.

To rely just on religion or even the current limit of science is also equal and both fallacy.

Our (believers) growth and belief is living, it might move faster than stale religion or the limits of science, but eventually both will catch up, and for those stuck in the science vs religion aka draper white thesis, lol. A good way to limit yourself there.

Modern religion will always catch up to science. As science pushes the envelope it moves faster. As religion upholds tradition because that is how it works, it is usually 20 years behind modern science.

That lag is known by some already. Just as any other lag. Imagine beating on your pc for not downloading fast enough a single image or mp3, back before broadband. Or just stressing at the lag. That stress is what many who side with science face but intensified. They do their own body damage by thinking they have to fight religion.

Also those who side with religion are facing another fear of those wanting to change too fast for their liking but mosy of them in 20 years will have accepted what they did not 20 years past, but still today they are in that same position again 20 years behind and fighting that now again.

Those who side with science or religion are both idiots.

Quote

Idiotes

 

There’s a wonderful word in Greek: idiotes, one who is concerned only with their own little world. That’s what it literally means. It’s the word from which we get our word “idiot.”

Just a tidbit in these troubled times. When someone tells you, “oh, don’t worry, you’ll be fine,” and they’re white and straight and male, yeah. Idiot. By the same token, though, when someone tells you, “oh, god, I’m panicking, please panic with me!” yeah, that’s a kind of idiotes too, but one I have a little more sympathy with. I’ll tell them, “your fear is real and strong, but not the law of the universe. It’s a thing that will wax and wane, and I’ll stand with you and help you as much as I can in the times to come, which will probably not be great. But we’ll try to get through them together, and we’re stronger than we think.”

https://pomomagic.wordpress.com/

So not idiots the way the masses use it as an insult. But literally are bound in their own little world.

I will take whatever is benificial. Whatever part of any system that works for me and further takea away fear and anxiety for me and whatever is conducive to wholeness and balance.

I cannot be whole or balanced with fear and anxiety. Neither can you. Be it in self or causing it among others

Or to have it over others.

So instead of just focusing on believers as the OP suggested I expanded the topic to also include non-believers too. There are various types. And among believers and non-believers there are crappy people in both camps who fight, provoke, insult, feel and import fear and anxiety.

There are unsane and delusional and liars in all camps even among skeptics. Their hostility is not sane. Their view that all will be and should be converted to their view is delusional. And their dabbiling in fear and anxiety is all lie. That is just for starters.

I might post again to further expand on the draper white thesis. As it is at the heart of many believers vs non-believer conflict which is all illusion btw.

But also some believers of one type (super religious) are also opposed and hostile to other believers (of aliens or ghosts for instance).

Best of all though is open-minded and -hearted folk are everywhere willing to allow others their own views and be humored by them even if they never had the same experiences or will have the same views.

Sadly it is profitable in dollars for many to have us at each others throats. I propose it is more profitable in the capital of humanity and goodwill to get along.

/end rant

Carry on. This message is not for most but for those ready for change.

Edited by I hide behind words

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Imaginarynumber1
4 minutes ago, I hide behind words said:

For one who has not had and known others to experience the preternatutal perhaps.

For those who have they do not assume nor do they fear.

For those who have negative experiences, they would have to offer their view as it would be another view.

And or course your skeptic view is noted but it is best suited to those who are likeminded.

Your use of the word "assume" puts you in that camp but others do not assume but know in part of more fully.

There is no need to convince skeptics or debate them. Everyone has their own paths and experiences.

Believers who need skeptics to validate their views should probably write off their views and join the skeptics. For those who do not need such validation because they have other believers, grounded, without negative issues, or associations then all is well.

Another category are those with wild imaginations who can then experience them. They are unique too but their world is mundane even with those elements.

And countless other categories exist including true skeptics, who are neither debunkers or cynics (two more groups), but truly have open minds and are on the fence. And that category is further subdivided by those who only choose to use scientific evidence which borders on rigdity and doctrinality, and those who await to have their own experiences or not and then provide proper self-analysis, which are the true skeptics.

But to allow a group or commitee to define, analyze, and filter your own experiences, lol.

Yes, anything built by commitee is going to be monstrous.

To rely just on religion or even the current limit of science is also equal and both fallacy.

Our (believers) growth and belief is living, it might move faster than stale religion or the limits of science, but eventually both will catch up, and for those stuck in the science vs religion aka draper white thesis, lol. A good way to limit yourself there.

Modern religion will always catch up to science. As science pushes the envelope it moves faster. As religion upholds tradition because that is how it works, it is usually 20 years behind modern science.

That lag is known by some already. Just as any other lag. Imagine beating on your pc for not downloading fast enough a single image or mp3, back before broadband. Or just stressing at the lag. That stress is what many who side with science face but intensified. They do their own body damage by thinking they have to fight religion.

Also those who side with religion are facing another fear of those wanting to change too fast for their liking but mosy of them in 20 years will have accepted what they did not 20 years past, but still today they are in that same position again 20 years behind and fighting that now again.

Those who side with science or religion are both idiots.

https://pomomagic.wordpress.com/

So not idiots the way the masses use it as an insult. But literally are bound in their own little world.

I will take whatever is benificial. Whatever part of any system that works for me and further takea away fear and anxiety for me and whatever is conduicive to wholeness and balance.

I cannot be whole or balanced with fear and anxiety.

So instead of just focusing on believers as the OP suggested I expanded the topic to also include non-believers too. There are various types. And among believers and non-believers there are crappy people in both camps who fight, provoke, insult, feel and import fear and anxiety.

I might post again to further expand on the draper white thesis. As it is at the heart of many believers vs non-believer conflict which is all illusion btw.

But also some believers of one type (super religious) are also opposed and hostile to other believers (of aliens or ghosts for instance).

Best of all though is open-minded and -hearted folk are everywhere willing to allow others their own views and be humored by them even if they never had the same experiences or will have the same views.

Sadly it is profitable in dollars for many to have us at each others throats. I propose it is more profitable in the capital of humanity and goodwill to get along.

Brevity is the soul of wit.

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Clarakore
4 minutes ago, Imaginarynumber1 said:

Brevity is the soul of wit.

Very witty of you.

And wit should be short indeed if that is what one is aiming for or just being witty in general...

Edited by I hide behind words

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Susanc241

On a lighter note, with reference to the lady who as a child saw the 'car on the power lines',  I have a memory of the top of the toilet cistern having to be taken off (?For repairs) when I was about 6 yrs old.  What I saw inside was cogs and wheels!!  Not water and a ballcock.  Even now remembering that memory, I still see cogs and wheels, even though it is quite certain I did not!  Memory can be wonderful, but it can also betray you. :rofl:

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Mr Walker
2 hours ago, Imaginarynumber1 said:

True. But there is also no reason to assume that something seen isn't just something ordinary. 

Unless it is not ordinary. :) 

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DanL

The human mind is a poorly understood frontier. In general even the "experts" are at best guessing about much of it. It SEEMS that basically our minds work like extremely powerful computers with extremely poor software for an operating system. When you toss in that the operator has been offered almost no assistance in the way of training or access to even a simple "owners manual" it is little wonder that a lot of anomalous things and actions happen that are not understood. Each mind is capable of almost miraculous things but we just don't know how to turn on all of the innate abilities. Occasionally someone will get hurt and suddenly they have abilities like lightning calculations or instant musical abilities. These abilities were already there just not turned on. 

Evidently our conscious mind has rather limited ability to sort through much in the way of volume as far as information goes. Not enough RAM maybe. In order that it not be over whelmed most of what we see, hear, feel, smell and taste is blocked off from conscious notice. Then of what we do sense, most of it is forgotten almost immediately and the rest is placed in somewhat longer term storage where it is whittled down in size as time passes. 

I am not sure what abilities are held within the human mind that are either not turned on or are not fully accessible to the conscious part of our mind where that which is especially and essentially ME exists. My long winded point of all this is that possibly people are inherently prone to see things that are not there or is it that some people see things that ARE there that others for some reason filter out those things. 

I will tell you this as a fact. Most people in an unfamiliar environment such as the woods are almost totally blind. Their problem is that they are looking rather than seeing and as such are filtering out most of what passes before their eyes. I walk through the woods with my Granddaughter and then ask her about the animals that we have seen and she hasn't seen anything except a few moving birds. Her eyes are better then mine but I saw all sorts of animals. 

When we are LOOKING for something we have set up preset search parameters. We visualize a deer standing side on to us with his head held high and maybe antlers. In the woods you seldom get to see that sort of view. The deer can be facing in any direction, head down maybe laying down. If you are looking hard you will most likely not see any of this. When deer hear you they stop moving and will crouch down. You can look right at them and not see them unless they move. 

On the other side there are people that do see this sort of thing. It can be partially learned from experience but in general 2a lot of it is some sort of natural ability to see details in a mass of information that most of us just don't catch. When my wife is driving she could pass an elephant standing on the side of the road and never see it! LOL, this actually happened and I made her turn around and go back. I think that these were circus elephants that winter here in the off season and sure enough there were three of them standing in their corals facing the road watching the cars go by.

The things that I personally have seen were not seen when I was looking for something. They were not quick glance sightings and in one case I actually got out of my truck and watched it for several minutes. Several of my experiences could be rather easily dismissed but 3 were not easily open to any reasonable explanation.

One happened to me when I was a child and I've spent a now rather long life seeking answers for it and the other oddities that have come my way. My tentative general conclusion is that some of what people are seeing is misunderstood normal things seen from odd angles or in unexpected locals but that some is from people that just see things that most other people filter out.

The cryptids may be able to make themselves almost unseeable. This is not the same as invisible. If you were looking for a man and a person that is a contortion est were to bend into an “impossible” shame that also hid their face you would not see them because they did not look like anything that was human. This was taught to a friend by a “ninja” master in a plowed field in Japan.

A cryptid, since it doesn't look like anything else that you have experienced would be hard to see and if you did see it you would most likely see it as something similar that is familiar to you. I suspect that this same thing is at work in a majority of the light in the sky UFO sightings. The up close and personal sightings are something different though.

People have been seeing things flying in the skies for a lot longer than there have been things other than birds flying. Imagination sort of goes out the door when people are seeing things that are basically unimaginable. Too many trained observers are seeing things for misunderstandings to be the quick and easy answer. When a military pilot tells you that he sees something that is not shaped like an airplane you should pay attention. Air line pilots are seeing things too and often it is CLOSE and confirmed by radar.

A lot of the things seen now are people that truly WANT to see something. If you want to see something it becomes very easy for you to misinterpret something and see what you want. This is just human nature and doesn't make them liars. My problem is that even when you can eliminate 80% or 90% that still leaves a huge number of experiences that need looking into.

Either there are “things” out there that are unexplained or there is some sort of mental function that we all have that only occasionally pops up. We know that there are things like that where people's minds do things that they don't understand and it can be scary as hell. Sleep paralysis is real and there are aspects of it that are in common for almost everyone that has experienced it. From this one real and somewhat natural if misunderstood mental ...reflex we have the various incubus and succubus experiences and many of the alien abductions experiences. The paralysis, feelings of not being alone, the terror and the big eyes that you are aware of all seem to be imprinted in us for this “special” experience.

What if there is some sort of mental process that makes people see people like things where there shouldn't be people like things doing that. Something like a racial memory that gets triggered in certain odd circumstances. Sorry I don't have any answers just more questions.

When I was about 8 I had an experience where I “remembered” the near future. I call it remembering because that is what it is like. When you imagine something the picture in your mind is hazy and the edges aren't filled in but a memory of a very important event in your life is crystal clear. I saw into the future and reacted to something that I had no way to know. This saved me from disfigurement and maybe death.

Since then I have had a lot of odd experiances. That is because I go places that others avoid and do things that other people don't generally do. If you sit in front of a TV most nights you don't see many odd things in the sky but if you spend several hours walking in the night every night that changes your opportunistic to see things. If you go to “haunted” places or places where a lot of odd things have happened you will see some odd things most of them I have figured out but a couple just elude explanation.

I have walked in the night and welcomed the night to walk with me. That means that when I walk in the woods at night I do it in the dark and not with flash lights blazing. I have always have rather amazing night vision. I think part of it is that my pale blue eyes that don't like bright light lets in more light and the other thing is that I was in the second grade before they figured out that I was blind as a bat. My vision was so poor that when they first tested my vision in elementary school I couldn't even see the chart much less anything on it. My ability to “see” in the dark may in part be that I adapted to a world where there wasn't a lot of visual information available and so later when in the dark I just am not bothered like others by not seeing things clearly.

The night is more the realm of a lot of things that prefer not to be seen. Things will get closer to you feeling safe in the darkness. It is a time when both the predators and the prey are more active. If I wanted to remain unseen I would be nocturnal so if I want to “meet” those things that want to go unseen I go out into the night to be with them.

On a humorous side note. I know for a fact that on several occasions I WAS the Cryptid. I usually walked with my various dogs. A big German shepard and later a just huge malamute/wolf mix that weighted 165 lbs. Occasionally we would stumble up on someone and the low growl of the big dogs mixed with my rather large dark figure (6'2” 235) would later show up in the rumors of a monster haunting a local lovers lane.


BREVITY IS OVERRATED! lol

Edited by DanL
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Mr Walker
20 hours ago, Imaginarynumber1 said:

Brevity is the soul of wit.

but the enemy of wisdom :) 

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GlitterRose

Ok so I usually defer to Crowley here. They're seeing them because everything in your psyche can be "manifested," but it isn't actually real. In essence, they're messed up. They need to gather their psyche up and get out of the "Abyss." 

I'm speaking from experience here. I've been there. You can just quit doing that to yourself. 

Edited by ChaosRose
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Stubbly_Dooright
On 5/25/2017 at 1:18 PM, DanL said:

UFOs, Cryptid Beasts, Ghosts, Alien abduction and Psychic phenomena...??? Everyone has their opinions and beliefs about each of these. Each side defends their point of view with almost rabid ferver at times. Here is what I would like to discuss with you. This is not a debate where there are going to be winners and losers. Let us just try and figure out or maybe just better understand an amazing phenomenon. Whether you believe or doubt or as even sure it is all bunk, how do we explain the multitude of seemingly pretty sane and normal people that have seen or experienced these things???

If everyone that thinks that they have seen a Bigfoot is right then those hairy rascals are all over the place and there are a LOT of them. If so why are they still cryptids. A lot of these people are trained observers like cops and such that have nothing to gain from making up a lie about this.

How can so many people share such odd experiences and all be either mistaken, delusional or liars. If these were all just a bunch of lowlife druggies or drunks that would be easy to ignore but the ranks of people that have seen or experienced things include people like presidents, Doctors, lawyers and even a few scientists.

If it is a psychosis it is huge and needs to be figured out because it is affecting a LOT of people. How do we respond to seemingly sane people that have had extremely unlikely experiences? I assure you they are not all stupid, or crazy in the traditional sense. In an effort to be honest I will tell you that I am one of the people that has seen and experienced things that defy my understanding. I know what I've seen and experienced but also don't claim to understand it. ???

 

 

Interesting questions here indeed. I share them as well. Now, I wouldn't put down those who feel there are mundane reasons too. It could be an area where mass experiences are. That area maybe rift with something. It could be circumstances too, But, there have experiences where similar circumstances don't occur. Anyways, which ever, there is still a hint of subjectiveness to the local objectiveness. Still good questions and points in my view.

On 5/26/2017 at 1:46 AM, I hide behind words said:
On 5/26/2017 at 1:44 AM, Imaginarynumber1 said:

Memory is not like most people think it is. It is not static and unchanging like a movie. It is mutable and ever changing. People often think, or are convinced. they have seen something that they have not. 

That works both ways. They can see something and find a way to write it off to fit their social expectations.

Of course memories change. We can even rewrite them so past events that seemed unhappy van become happy. Perhaps they were not unhappy to begin with.

Or a concussion received in a years ago car accident do it's bit too. ;)  :wacko: 

 

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Stubbly_Dooright
On 5/26/2017 at 3:38 AM, Susanc241 said:

On a lighter note, with reference to the lady who as a child saw the 'car on the power lines',  I have a memory of the top of the toilet cistern having to be taken off (?For repairs) when I was about 6 yrs old.  What I saw inside was cogs and wheels!!  Not water and a ballcock.  Even now remembering that memory, I still see cogs and wheels, even though it is quite certain I did not!  Memory can be wonderful, but it can also betray you. :rofl:

I feel that is a good point. I have distinct memories of both my children's births. My wedding day, (mostly ;) ) and various experiences that have left it's mark on my memory. Some other instances also, because of the severity of the experiences. I remember exactly what I was doing at the time of Princess Diana's death, 9/11, and other such negative situations. 

So, on that note, certain experiences that were out of the ordinary for me like seeing what I thought were ghosts, or UFO's, and such, would leave it's mark. When a customer comes in and asks, 'do you remember me?' And I'm like,................ No, :cry: 

Or did I remember to stop at that stop sign that I always pass each day? I guess, it depends on what happens to make the memory. 

On 5/26/2017 at 3:20 PM, DanL said:

Since then I have had a lot of odd experiances. That is because I go places that others avoid and do things that other people don't generally do. If you sit in front of a TV most nights you don't see many odd things in the sky but if you spend several hours walking in the night every night that changes your opportunistic to see things. If you go to “haunted” places or places where a lot of odd things have happened you will see some odd things most of them I have figured out but a couple just elude explanation.

Granted, I think that is true. (I still think it's subjective, but fascinating just the same) More times I'm out at night walking my dog, I tend to catch a sight of a shooting star. 

21 hours ago, ChaosRose said:

Ok so I usually defer to Crowley here. They're seeing them because everything in your psyche can be "manifested," but it isn't actually real. In essence, they're messed up. They need to gather their psyche up and get out of the "Abyss." 

I'm speaking from experience here. I've been there. You can just quit doing that to yourself. 

I'm curious about something though. And I have reflected on this. When does it become reality and when does it be something that you only think is happening? I sometimes wonder, if even mundane living is not the actual reality. *shrugs*

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DanL

The problem that most people have is that when something odd happens they either get real excited and jump to conclusions that may not be justified. Once that happens their memories are locked in on that thought and THAT is what they will remember. OOORR it scares the crud out of them and about the same set of things happen. Over time I have learned to somewhat resist this. I'm afraid that my curiosity is stronger than my fear and I try real hard to not get over excited so that what I see and remember will be clear and as true to what I'm seeing as possible. Afterward I try to think of every other not odd reason to explain what I've seen and then if possible go back and search the area for clues of what might have caused it. 

Most things actually end up with a rather mundane explanation. Some things you can't prove one way or another and just have to shrug it off as unexplained. Then there are the very very few that have no sensible explanation unless you want to start questioning your own sanity. These are the ones that haunt you. One I absolutely proved to my satisfaction.

Where I live there has always been talk about black panthers. We are told in NO uncertain terms that there is no such critter in where I live by "experts." I saw one and got a plaster of paris mold of his pug marks. (foot prints) That wasn't a house cat!! Its pug was as big as my hand and that cat was over 6' long tail and all. I've seen bobcat prints and they are not even close to this cat. I live in South East Texas and suspect that this is a jaguar that has roamed out of his normal areas. The size is about right and panthers as in black mountain lions have never been recorded. A leopard is possible but it would have to be a released or escaped animal since they are not native to the Americas, 

 

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jmccr8
On 5/25/2017 at 10:47 PM, Imaginarynumber1 said:

True. But there is also no reason to assume that something seen isn't just something ordinary. 

Yes and sometimes where people expand themselves they see things in a different light, this can work for or against oneself during different emotional or other influences. I think attitude is a big influence in how they will re-act at different times in different ways.

jmccr8

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Hawken

alien20.jpg

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Podo
On 2017-05-25 at 5:53 PM, Future ghost said:

While I do agree that there is usually a logical explanation for these experiences, I was curious as to your opinion regarding shared experiences. How can multiple people witness the same things at the same time? Is it some kind of group hallucination ? I've been wondering about this for a while, so any input would be great.

Not everything has to be a hallucination, is the thing. There are many ways to misidentify something without hallucinating it. Shared experiences can be mass misidentification, such as people panicking upon witnessing a meteor, or an unusual cloud formation, or swamp gas, or even mass pareidolia. Mass pareidolia is even more likely when you consider how easy it is to prime a human brain to see something in particular; if one person yells "hey look, a UFO!" and points at a roundish cloud, anyone hearing that will be predisposed to see a UFO, regardless to the actual nature.

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Stubbly_Dooright
17 hours ago, Podo said:

Not everything has to be a hallucination, is the thing. There are many ways to misidentify something without hallucinating it. Shared experiences can be mass misidentification, such as people panicking upon witnessing a meteor, or an unusual cloud formation, or swamp gas, or even mass pareidolia. Mass pareidolia is even more likely when you consider how easy it is to prime a human brain to see something in particular; if one person yells "hey look, a UFO!" and points at a roundish cloud, anyone hearing that will be predisposed to see a UFO, regardless to the actual nature.

The power of suggestion can have a powerful effect. I agree. :yes:  

I wonder though, on the experiences of people when it's just them during it. Then you have others who were also alone at the time, and their experiences seem to have the same elements as the first person's. (yeah, there could be the power of suggestion) but sometimes without talking someone else's, I have found there seems to be close similarities. 

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