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Trump Withdraws from Paris Climate Accord


Raptor Witness

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19 minutes ago, Sweetpumper said:

Bill Nye has joined the protest. 'Nuff said.

Good - they could really use the credibility he brings

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The EU's GDP is just about the same as the USA's, So is the EU paying the same amount that they expect the USA to pay?

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16 hours ago, RavenHawk said:

That’s misleading.  China has far out stripped us in pollution and how long do you think it’ll take at this rate before the “damage” China accumulates surpasses us as well?

Of course they have outstripped the U.S. in pollution. Thats why this agreement is important. China should slow down the rate of pollution and so should the U.S. 

16 hours ago, RavenHawk said:

And?  At least our future remains in our hands.

Unless your country lives in a bubble, which it does not... what happens in America has global repercussions the same for China too. 

17 hours ago, RavenHawk said:

For one thing, this agreement is non-binding, which means that nations are not going to follow this.  On top of that, China isn’t even mandated to meet any emissions target.  You’re worried about collusion with Russia.  The Paris Accords is collusion with China.  It benefits them at our expense.  How is that ‘looking after our people’?  It’s not.  The Paris Accords is the world wide globalist version of the EU.  Trump is our version of Brexit.

The transition into clean power and industry has many advantages that outweigh the current high carbon/pollution economic model currently out there. Trump has already stated that he whats to renegotiate the Paris Accord and not scrape it. It will take many years for this to happen and with any luck Trump will be gone in 4 years if not sooner and the current Paris Accord can be implemented. 

I don't think that its a U.S. Vs's the World has Trump would like to portray it. Its closer to Trump wanting to prove that e can cut a better deal. And really what is it all about? a couple of percentage points. 

17 hours ago, RavenHawk said:

They are one in the same.  That is why we elected him.  We elected him to be President of the United States, not the World.  Obama was too interested in Globalism.  Hilary never cared about the Forgotten Man.  That is why she lost, not the long list of excuses she peddles.

Fair point. Low wages and less work is not good for anyone. But the genie is outta the bottle and good luck on Trump playing Aladdin. 

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15 hours ago, DieChecker said:

So you are OK with allowing India and China to continue polluting at 100% of their current rates into the foreseeable future? That's like saying we need to deal with the Muslim immigration issues in France, but not the rest of Europe, while maintaining open borders. It isn't going to work. 

If the US is going to lead by example, then that example needs to be followed. And as such China and India both need to cut back also. 

No I'm not ok with it. But the best way forward is to lead by example. What you are suggesting it that its better to not evolve your economy and the environment as payback. Somehow thats not right to me. Besides... the U.S. and Europe would get a jump on those that haven't or can't adapt to a low pollution model and gain economies of scale over their competitors. If you factor in no pollution into products and services you make those services and products cheaper over time. 

Generally what I'm saying is that even thou Trump means well he is just not being realistic in his silly game of who's the better businessman. 

Edited by Captain Risky
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1 minute ago, Captain Risky said:

No I'm not ok with it. But the best way forward is to lead by example. What you are suggesting it that its better to not evolve your economy and the environment as payback. Somehow thats not right to me. Besides... the U.S. and Europe would get a jump on those that haven't or can't adapt to a low pollution model and gain economies of scale of their competitors. If you factor in not pollution into products and services you make those services and products cheaper over time. 

Generally what I'm saying is that even thou Trump means well he is just not being realistic in his silly game of who's the better businessman. 

No the best way forward is to actually put something together that curbs emissions. All this deal does is send our jobs to China, where they will then double the pollution they currently spew. 

This deal was a total scam. A scam that was going to put the final nail in our economic coffin 

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We have always been up to the standards of the Kyoto Protocol, which neither Bush or Obama ratified. 

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7 hours ago, OverSword said:

Why?

Cause America has done more pollution damage to the planet. That and the fact that it has the worlds biggest economy and is the worlds only superpower. Question is will it survive Trumps super ego?  

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9 minutes ago, preacherman76 said:

No the best way forward is to actually put something together that curbs emissions. All this deal does is send our jobs to China, where they will then double the pollution they currently spew. 

This deal was a total scam. A scam that was going to put the final nail in our economic coffin 

They have, its called the Paris Accord. Dropping wages is the only way America will become a manufacturing hub again. You prepared to work in a factory that pumps out unless nik naks for 5 dollars an hour? 

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22 minutes ago, Captain Risky said:

They have, its called the Paris Accord. Dropping wages is the only way America will become a manufacturing hub again. You prepared to work in a factory that pumps out unless nik naks for 5 dollars an hour? 

No. I'm gonna cut taxes to next to nothing, and I'm gonna put tariffs on incoming goods, and level the playing field.  

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Then Id publically praise those who stayed, and those who came back. Then shame those who were leaving, rally boycotts etc.

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2 hours ago, preacherman76 said:

No. I'm gonna cut taxes to next to nothing, and I'm gonna put tariffs on incoming goods, and level the playing field.  

...and who exactly will be paying taxes if American corporations don't?

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1 hour ago, Captain Risky said:

...and who exactly will be paying taxes if American corporations don't?

No taxation without representation.

the government only represents business interests, QED no one except those business interests should be taxed.

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4 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

No taxation without representation.

the government only represents business interests, QED no one except those business interests should be taxed.

In a perfect world they (corporations and businesses) should be the only ones being taxed cause like you said our politicians are subservient to their needs and neglect ours. But I don't think that the original poster i was referring to that. According to that poster, America should tax foreign products and services while not taxing local ones. Just wanna know what happens when there are no imports left... who pays taxes?

 

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Who even really cares about this...

A non-binding agreement that anyone can just willingly do whatever...yet a big fuss because one pulls out!

Wonder why that is...maybe because the most watched,begged of,and critisized nation who if they didn't pony up massive dollars every year would take the sole blame for the failures of the rest to uphold their commitments...

Germany,France,and Italy say so and so...who gives a ****!

Rest assured if Big Bad Vlad makes even the tiniest ripple across Europe over the next 4-8 years those 3 will be the first in line begging on bended knee for the finest US tax payer funded weaponry,troops,ect...

Give me a break,this s*** is a hysterical joke!

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13 hours ago, toast said:

I partially agree with you but, Ive said that already, if he was dissatisfied with the conditions he should had ask the community for negotiations but he didnt. Thats because he dont understand the whole issue, his diplomatic skills ar zero and he wanted to deliver something big, despite the fact how much damage that decision would cause. Well done, mission executed.

It took 20 years to bring the community under the umbrella. For 20 years, smart minds worked on a solution and found it. So for what reasons do you think a person who think that the climate change is a hoax by the Chineese should be a person of competence, surrounded by a bunch of "experts" with clowns like Pruitt/Bannon, to discuss the issue again, and, in general?

Well, here we are in June, and Trump has been talking dropping Paris Accords since more then a year ago. Did anyone on the board of the Paris Accords stretch out the olive branch? Maybe. But if they did, and Trump smacked it away, then you have a case. Otherwise the failure comes from both sides.

Much like one nation saying it wants to bomb another, you don't have to wait for the bombs to be dropping for the targeted nation to open a discussion.

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Corporations pay taxes and thus government must represent corporate interests!   That is not a sound system.   Pay taxes on it, so therefore the government can control it!    That's like getting slapped twice, once on the left side and once on the right. 

It's impossible to have an objective, neutral, balanced, and sane government when we're hosting a corporatocracy.    The fed govt can only spend money in the name of fixing problems, and wants to spend as much money as possible on the things that resonate at the ballot box.   Unfortunately those things are one hundred percent completely FoS, by default.  

Spending endless hours raging fake religion masquerading as "science" about carbon, immigrants, terrorism.   I gotta vote for another Republican or Democrat next time too?   Do I want to pour all my time and money into Fake Science or Fake National Security!?    Do I want to try our country's luck on Durrnob #1 or Durrnob #2?   

How many fake divides are there that divide us?   "Red", or "Blue"?   "black" or "white"?   "Conservative", or "Liberal"?    "Pro-Life"TM, or "Pro-Choice"TM?   That last one reveals its true essence via our opinions on the Abortion issue!  ?!   So there's political morality now too?  

Donald Trump goes around talking to other countries and companies like he's got the giant credit card in the sky and he's the Big Swipper.    If Trump turns out to be nothing more than a Derppedo run straight into the hull of America?    I'm not sure if that's a net positive or net negative for the country!!??  

But for the people who constantly consume the nooz they're fed by the mainstream media, then start fighting about it?  

170530144046-kathy-griffin-tyler-shields

Might as well fight about Kathy Griffin.  Even Anderson Cooper, the CIA's next Lee Harvey Oswald, dumped her like a bag of rocks.    So.... tell me Righties, is that the true face of the liberal in the 21st century?   If I wasn't running away from the "liberals" fast enough already, should I be terrified and run even faster?

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5 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

No I'm not ok with it. But the best way forward is to lead by example. What you are suggesting it that its better to not evolve your economy and the environment as payback. Somehow thats not right to me. Besides... the U.S. and Europe would get a jump on those that haven't or can't adapt to a low pollution model and gain economies of scale over their competitors. If you factor in no pollution into products and services you make those services and products cheaper over time. 

Generally what I'm saying is that even thou Trump means well he is just not being realistic in his silly game of who's the better businessman. 

I'm suggesting that if one nation is required to lower CO2 output, all should. China has no motive to change... Such environmental accords need to address that. Signing a paper that is a fangless snake changes nothing.

Is there a known track record of China following the US lead in any societal actions? Are they more tolerant of minorities, like gays, or of different religions? I've seen no evidence of them following any lead from any other nation. Their activities in the South China Sea clearly show they care little to nothing about international pressure.

 

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5 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

They have, its called the Paris Accord. Dropping wages is the only way America will become a manufacturing hub again. You prepared to work in a factory that pumps out unless nik naks for 5 dollars an hour? 

How then does Japan and Germany do it?

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5 hours ago, preacherman76 said:

No. I'm gonna cut taxes to next to nothing, and I'm gonna put tariffs on incoming goods, and level the playing field.  

Just cut taxes and get out of the way.

Stop preying on the emotional and even religious sensibilities of good hard working people from the rust belt where I come from.    We'll never be that thriving city in Eastern Ohio with 100,000+ population, the steel mills running 24/7, big trains going by every day, big ships sailing up and down the river every day.    We're never going to be that manufacturer anymore because there's so little demand for it.   It's old fashioned, the world has moved on.   The best thing for the "workers" is to get out of the way, and let the market determine what kind of jobs and businesses the communities are going to have.

Or you could just control the marketplace yourself from the White House and sell a hundred billion dollars of weapons to Saudi Arabia, and go start more wars together.  We'll need a lot more steel doing that.   Is that what we want?    Is that what Pittsburgh and Detroit need to be great again?

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California has the toughest environmental standards of any state and also the most jobs in the manufacturing sector of any state.  Prosperity might be increased by looking toward the future rather than the past.

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28 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

California has the toughest environmental standards of any state and also the most jobs in the manufacturing sector of any state.  Prosperity might be increased by looking toward the future rather than the past.

 

Source, please?

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Which state is leading regarding Manufacturing depends on what statistic you are talking about. 

How do you pick which to emulate? Simply the one with the highest population, like was suggested? Or, those who are the most productive?

http://www.areadevelopment.com/RegionalReports/Q1-2013/states-leading-US-manufacturing-resurgence-2665542.shtml

manufacturing-share-employment-state-bls

manufacturing-gsp-by-state-2011-nam.png

manufacturing-jobs-by-state-bls-nov2012.

This article would suggest that California isn't even in the top ten of states regarding strong Manufacturing...

http://chiefexecutive.net/the-top-10-states-for-manufacturing/

Manufacturing-Chart-768x390.jpg

According to CNBC.... I don't see California on the list...

http://www.cnbc.com/id/100832195

top-20-states-for-manufacturing-job-crea

Edited by DieChecker
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California has higher pollution requirements because it needs them. CAs history sucks regarding pollution.

2015 worst cities in America... Top 6... In California.

https://www.ecowatch.com/25-most-and-least-polluted-cities-in-america-1882034956.html

980x.jpg

http://www.stateoftheair.org/2015/city-rankings/most-polluted-cities.html

Basically says the same thing.... In case there is a second source needed.

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1 hour ago, DieChecker said:

How then does Japan and Germany do it?

Japan and Germany leave the nik naks to china and Taiwan while they produce high end stuff. It's what most developed nations do. Value add as much as possible to their products by sourcing cheap suppliers. 

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2 hours ago, DieChecker said:

I'm suggesting that if one nation is required to lower CO2 output, all should. China has no motive to change... Such environmental accords need to address that. Signing a paper that is a fangless snake changes nothing.

Is there a known track record of China following the US lead in any societal actions? Are they more tolerant of minorities, like gays, or of different religions? I've seen no evidence of them following any lead from any other nation. Their activities in the South China Sea clearly show they care little to nothing about international pressure.

 

You know... every one is on board with this bar Trump. I seriously don't think that America and Europe got collectively hoodwinked by the Chinese. Trump is wrong. 

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