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Opus Magnus

Mark of the Beast

Mark of the Beast  

50 members have voted

  1. 1. Would you take or receive the mark of the beast six hundred three score and six in your right hand or forehead?

    • Yes
      10
    • No
      40


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Ogbin
On ‎9‎/‎17‎/‎2017 at 7:16 PM, ChaosRose said:

There's plenty of tribulation already been going on. Always, for that matter. But there is some next level stuff. I don't think it means Revelation is true. It could mean we've done a lot of damage, though.

Ever since the fall of Man there has been tribulation in the world, I agree. And most of it was brought on by our own actions. Man is a very destructive force when he wants to be, that's for sure. As far as the "event" known as the Tribulation, I believe it to not only be a real thing, I believe it to be happening some time in the near future. It truly was a miracle that Israel not only survived as a people for 2000 years being spread out among the nations, but that they were able to become a nation again just as prophesied. Technology, nations, attitudes, character traits and personalities of people also seem to be happening just as prophesied. The crazy thing is, if Israel had never became a nation again, then none of these other prophesies (which there are a lot of) would be on the verge of fulfillment as they are today. As Hal Lindsey says, "Yesterdays prophesies, Todays headlines."

Edited by Ogbin
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Ogbin
On ‎9‎/‎13‎/‎2017 at 1:45 PM, Opus Magnus said:

So, from Revelation 21:8

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

 

On ‎9‎/‎15‎/‎2017 at 11:43 AM, Guyver said:

I don't know if you believe any of this stuff or not; but if you do, here's a couple things to think about.

1.  David and Moses are in hell because they were murderers.

2.  All people are liars, and therefore everyone is going to hell.  

So, according to this "bible" verse; everyone is going to hell.  I mean, just derp.  

 

No.. not everyone is going to Hell. Only those who reject Christ Jesus as their Lord and Savior are going to Hell according to the Bible.

On ‎9‎/‎13‎/‎2017 at 1:45 PM, Opus Magnus said:

 

And Revelation 22:14-15

14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

 

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Ogbin
On ‎9‎/‎13‎/‎2017 at 1:45 PM, Opus Magnus said:

 

And Revelation 22:14-15

14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

 

So, I guess the outside is the furnace.  I've just always wanted to be hopeful there were things on the new earth besides the city of New Jerusalem.

If you do not have eternal life with the Father, then you have eternal death without Him. Revelation 20:15 says, "whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." So it's not saying that outside the New Jerusalem is the furnace. The furnace is just another name for the lake of fire. What it's saying is, is that outside of the presence of God and eternal life is the lake of fire and eternal death. People will not just be inside the New Jerusalem for all eternity, they will be spread all over the earth.

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Ogbin
On ‎9‎/‎9‎/‎2017 at 5:19 PM, Noteverythingisaconspiracy said:

Israel became a nation because the British agreed to give them land in Palestine, which was a British protectorate at the time. The fact that it happened in 1948 is because the process was greatly accelerated due to what happen to the jews in World War II and the general decolonisation happening at the time. After the tremendous cost of World War II the British simly couldn't afford their big empire anymore. Nothing to do with biblical prophesy and everthing to do with politics and economics. 

I disagree. Israel becoming a nation again has everything to do with bible prophecy. It does not matter how the prophecy was fulfilled, it only matters that it was fulfilled, and fulfilled it was in 1948. If a day is as a thousand years as a thousand years is a day to the Lord(2Peter 3:8), then Hosea 6:2A would then be a fulfilled prophecy, which says, "After two days he will revive us:" This is speaking of the rebirth of the nation of Israel. Now Isaiah 66:8 says, "...Shall the Earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once?..." Another fulfilled prophecy. Israel became a nation in one day just as prophesied. And lets not forget about Ezekiel 37, which is another prophecy about the rebirth of Israel. These are just 3 of many prophesies about the rebirth of Israel.

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Opus Magnus

Yeah, I'm not sure.  I'd like to believe there was a place outside of New Jerusalem.  Also, I'd think that it would be somewhat possible that they would attack the city, or that somehow Satan would crawl out of the furnace during eternity and attack, because he might be immune to the flames.  I'd also like to believe that some people would go to hell as a period of cleansing in flames and heat for their sins, and that they would be able to stand for the judgement of the dead and be permitted into the city if they were cleansed in Hell.  However, I'm not sure if this is the case, it might be more pessimistic, and straightforward, and everybody who goes down those paths are falling straight into the furnace.  Also, I guess, my desire of wanting an end to eternity is a symptom of having curse.  Because there is supposed to be no curse in the new creation, so it's barely possible for me to comprehend life without curses and sorrow.

Though, as for Moses and David, they did kill, but in war.  That's one thing David expresses in Psalms, is how he feels bad and guilty for winning and losing in war.  But, he asks God to cleanse him from his iniquities from battle.  Though, David does have some bad sins, like Urijah, I guess it just goes to show how flexible those last verses really are.  I think they majorly apply to certain personality types, like compulsive liars, and people who love to do the wrong thing, that's why it says 'those who loveth and maketh a lie'.  

That's one thing I've gone over with myself a lot.  Is about when we lie, and it seems right.  I think, it's a childish thing, like when a child maybe breaks a lamp by accident, and when their parents ask if they do it, they say, "No," because they might get away with it.  Sometimes the child might say yes, but if the parents are going to overreact about the lamp and the child lies and gets away with it, it might be worth it.  Then, i guess the only harm that could come is the parents blaming someone else for breaking the lamp.  Then I guess it's up to the child if they come clean, so as not to have someone else take the blame.  I think King David lies like this a little, when he is trying to flee King Saul, when King Saul is trying to kill him for no good reason but he is Jealous that King David is becoming more popular than him.

I think things have to be balanced on some sort of scales.  There's some sort of stakes to the matter, and what they are worth.

On another note, as pertaining the rider on the black horse, who uses scales.  I always wondered when it says, "

When the Lamb opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature say, “Come!” I looked, and there before me was a black horse! Its rider was holding a pair of scales in his hand. Then I heard what sounded like a voice among the four living creatures, saying, “Two pounds[a] of wheat for a day’s wages,[b] and six pounds[c] of barley for a day’s wages,[d] and do not damage the oil and the wine!”

"

I always thought that meant they were cheap, and yeah, it means what and barley are really cheap.

As I was reading through the Bible again, I came to this " 1 Then Elisha said, Hear ye the word of the LORD; Thus saith the LORD, To morrow about this time shall a measure of fine flour be sold for a shekel, and two measures of barley for a shekel, in the gate of Samaria. "

In 2 Kings 7:1.

It's a whole story, but I think that's where the 3rd horseman comes from.  It puts a little more understanding into the scenerio.

So, anyway, a lot of things in Revelation goes back to things in the old testament, I'm not sure if they've all been discovered, but I don't look at the side-notes.

I don't want to argue about the literality of the temple with you, because I like the idea that it happens literally.  It makes sense to me to keep it both a spiritual and literal understanding, and it has to make sense.  But, as concerning the whole world, even if they didn't have knowledge of the whole world, Christianity has spread to these continents, making them susceptible to the prophecy today.

I guess, what I've been thinking of.  Is there's still a lot of heat about the Temple Mount.  Where the temple used to be.  There's new temples built there, but I guess they're not temple temples.  But, I think the point is the struggle over the temple mount, that it's still a special place that gets a lot of heat put on it.

So, there kinda is a temple on there now.

Edited by Opus Magnus

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and then
On 9/6/2017 at 5:30 PM, Stubbly_Dooright said:

OK, going to these links, I'm getting different messages here. Granted, I see how the various scientists, and so forth, in each link doing and saying how things that would influence behavior, like over population, under population, and other things like eating certain things, might effect DNA and such, but are you pointing to evolution? 

The first link and I think either the second or third one, talks about over population, but in a quick study of the result, it seems thing occur due to behavior and then it's actions, nothing about the Change in DNA. Other links, seems to me, to point to evolution. 

Here's the thing. You brought up left handedness, and it seems you linked that to mutation. Granted it's something wired ina person, but is it a mutation? What do you consider left handed people? Yes, I'm left handed. Not saying I'm over sensitive, just curious. 

As for irreligion, are you considering that a mutation? I ask, because it seemed to me that you linked that to mutation. 

Plus, these two items, that you mentioned, didn't seem to come up in your links. Yes, you're talking about mutations, and thus DNA, but it seems this is getting off tract here, to what I thought you were implying. 

Plus, how does this gear toward the "mark'? In which, more and more I see other's responses, I still don't get. 

Uh, so are we discussing what it takes for someone to 'break down' to receive the 'mark, and judging a person from there? 

Why? 

 

No.  I never said the choice would be easy or fair.  The bottom line is that the choice will be forced upon those living in the world in those days.  What a person does is up to them.  They WILL serve God or Satan.  It isn't my story, it's the Lord's story.  I believe that the vast majority will choose to extend their comfort and then their lives, to the very last moment.  Then, when they stand before God they will make the excuse that it wasn't fair to do that to them.  The problem with that is that if they simply accepted His son's sacrifice in their stead, they'd not have had to worry about it at all.  

" if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved."

Pride.

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Liquid Gardens
On 9/19/2017 at 1:13 AM, Ogbin said:

 It does not matter how the prophecy was fulfilled, it only matters that it was fulfilled, and fulfilled it was in 1948. If a day is as a thousand years as a thousand years is a day to the Lord(2Peter 3:8), then Hosea 6:2A would then be a fulfilled prophecy, which says, "After two days he will revive us:" This is speaking of the rebirth of the nation of Israel. Now Isaiah 66:8 says, "...Shall the Earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once?..." Another fulfilled prophecy. Israel became a nation in one day just as prophesied. And lets not forget about Ezekiel 37, which is another prophecy about the rebirth of Israel. These are just 3 of many prophesies about the rebirth of Israel.

Was there someone before 1948 stating that since 2000 years had passed that it was time for Israel to be reborn?  Looking after the fact at what occurred and seeing if you can fit it into prophecies is not really very impressive or difficult (especially when you are taking single verses out of two different books to come up with 2000 years). If that method is compelling then we should be astounded by Nostradamus.

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Noteverythingisaconspiracy
8 hours ago, Liquid Gardens said:

Was there someone before 1948 stating that since 2000 years had passed that it was time for Israel to be reborn?  Looking after the fact at what occurred and seeing if you can fit it into prophecies is not really very impressive or difficult (especially when you are taking single verses out of two different books to come up with 2000 years). If that method is compelling then we should be astounded by Nostradamus.

The sad thing is that some people actually are astounded by Nostradamus. :no:

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Ogbin
On ‎9‎/‎21‎/‎2017 at 6:22 AM, Liquid Gardens said:

Was there someone before 1948 stating that since 2000 years had passed that it was time for Israel to be reborn?  Looking after the fact at what occurred and seeing if you can fit it into prophecies is not really very impressive or difficult (especially when you are taking single verses out of two different books to come up with 2000 years). If that method is compelling then we should be astounded by Nostradamus.

Isaiah spoke of a Israel being reborn in one day

ISAIAH 66:7-8 "Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child. Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children."

In ISAIAH 66:7-8, the prophet foreshadowed the re-birth of Israel in 1948. Isaiah describes a woman giving birth before going into labor, and he speaks of a country being born in one day. This accurately describes what happened on May 14, 1948 - when the Jews declared independence for Israel as a united and sovereign nation for the first time in 2900 years.

During that same day, the United States issued a statement recognizing Israel’s sovereignty. And, only hours beforehand, a United Nations mandate expired, ending British control of the land. During a 24-hour span of time, foreign control of the land of Israel had formally ceased, and Israel had declared its independence, and its independence was acknowledged by other nations. Modern Israel was literally was born in a single day.

Isaiah said the birth would take place before there would be labor pains. And that too is precisely what happened. A movement called Zionism began in the 1800s to encourage Jews worldwide to move to Israel, which at that time was called Palestine. Within hours of the declaration of independence in 1948, Israel was attacked by the surrounding countries of Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq and Saudi Arabia.

Jacob’s descendants would regain control of Israel

AMOS 9:14-15  "And I will bring again the captivity of my people of Israel, and they shall build the waste cities, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and drink the wine thereof; they shall also make gardens, and eat the fruit of them. And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the LORD thy God."  Fulfilled 1948

Israel would be brought back to life

EZEKIEL 37:10-14  "So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army. Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts. Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel. And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,  And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it, and performed it, saith the LORD."  Fulfilled 1948

Israel would be re-established as a united nation

EZEKIEL 37:21-22  "And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land: And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:"  Fulfilled 1948

The second Israel would be more impressive than the first

JEREMIAH 16:14-15  "Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that it shall no more be said, The LORD liveth, that brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt; But, The LORD liveth, that brought up the children of Israel from the land of the north, and from all the lands whither he had driven them: and I will bring them again into their land that I gave unto their fathers."  Fulfilled 1948

The people of Israel would return to "their own land"

EZEKIEL 34:13 "And I will bring them out from the people, and gather them from the countries, and will bring them to their own land, and feed them upon the mountains of Israel by the rivers, and in all the inhabited places of the country." Fulfilled 1948/Still happening

The fortunes of the people of Israel would be restored

DEUTERONOMY 30:3-5  "That then the LORD thy God will turn thy captivity, and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath scattered thee. If any of thine be driven out unto the outmost parts of heaven, from thence will the LORD thy God gather thee, and from thence will he fetch thee: And the LORD thy God will bring thee into the land which thy fathers possessed, and thou shalt possess it; and he will do thee good, and multiply thee above thy fathers."  Fulfilled 1948

 

 

 

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Ogbin
On ‎9‎/‎20‎/‎2017 at 1:51 PM, Opus Magnus said:

  Because there is supposed to be no curse in the new creation, so it's barely possible for me to comprehend life without curses and sorrow.

That's the thing, no one can fully comprehend eternal life until we get there.

On ‎9‎/‎20‎/‎2017 at 1:51 PM, Opus Magnus said:

  I think they majorly apply to certain personality types, like compulsive liars, and people who love to do the wrong thing, that's why it says 'those who loveth and maketh a lie'.  

"God is light, and in Him is no darkness at all." People who walk in darkness don't want their deeds to come to light, so they lie, and the Truth is not in them.

On ‎9‎/‎20‎/‎2017 at 1:51 PM, Opus Magnus said:

On another note, as pertaining the rider on the black horse, who uses scales.  I always wondered when it says, "

When the Lamb opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature say, “Come!” I looked, and there before me was a black horse! Its rider was holding a pair of scales in his hand. Then I heard what sounded like a voice among the four living creatures, saying, “Two pounds[a] of wheat for a day’s wages,[b] and six pounds[c] of barley for a day’s wages,[d] and do not damage the oil and the wine!”

"

I always thought that meant they were cheap, and yeah, it means what and barley are really cheap.

My understanding of this scripture is that it takes a whole days wage just to pay for a meal.

 

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DieChecker
On 9/17/2017 at 10:01 AM, Guyver said:

Who's to say what or how God is?  The bible is not a reliable source of information, I'm sorry - but it just isn't.  Now, is the physical world reliable?  It sure seems to be, and what is this world like?  We can consider the vastness and complexity....the precision of the universe, all the way down to the atom itself.  If God made this place, then there is no limit to his capability and skill.  That alone should be an indication that the mind of man is not really capbable of understanding him or explaining him.

You and I may have principles and values that we generally live by, believe in, practice etc.  But at the same time, we can violate these principles based upon circumstances that can overwhelm us.  When I look at the world, I see that God doesn't violate his principles.  Considering this deeply, I see that there's no reason for him to.  So, with this in mind...I believe that the stories that claim God is like a man.....capable of violating good priniciples and moral behavior is just not real.  People express what they "think" in their own minds.  Do you really believe that God would ask a man to make a human sacrifice out of his own son, the way Abraham was supposed to have done, just to prove faith to someone who already knows everything?

I don't.  

I'd say that God does violate His rules. This happens every time someone prays and He answers. Thus violating the natural order that God set into motion at Creation. 

Quote

And what's worse......this same "God" is said to abhor human sacrifice.  So, God suddenly forgets that he detests human sacrifice - yet wishes Abraham to sacrifice Isaac to prove his faith?!!!   Sorry, I'm not buying.  I'm not buying the notion that God could be so confused.  

As to the Sacrifice.... Is it repugnant if a man jumps in front of another with a club, if he saves a family of four? Is it repugnant if a soldier jumps on a grenade to save the rest of his squad? Each of the men in those examples is sacrificing himself to save others. Why would then is Jesus sacrificing himself, so that billions of people, past, present and future, are saved, such a horrible thing?

Jesus wasn't a victim, he was a hero, who went gladly to his fate, because he knew he would save many by doing so, just as the fellow who jumps in front of a knife or club, or onto a grenade knows he will die, but save many.

God doesn't want us to take people, tie them up, and slaughter them in terror, and do so in His name. That is what God doesn't want to do. If someone gives their life, in pursuit of doing what is right, that is also a sacrifice, and one that is pleasing to the Lord.

Edited by DieChecker
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DieChecker
5 hours ago, Ogbin said:

My understanding of this scripture is that it takes a whole days wage just to pay for a meal.

Given modern prices the 2 pounds of Wheat are about 20 cents and the 6 pounds of Barley is about 45 cents.

Though I think anyone would be hard pressed to eat 6 pounds of barley as a meal. That would be close to a 1 gallon milk jug in volume.

:D

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Opus Magnus
On 9/29/2017 at 10:07 PM, Ogbin said:

That's the thing, no one can fully comprehend eternal life until we get there.

"God is light, and in Him is no darkness at all." People who walk in darkness don't want their deeds to come to light, so they lie, and the Truth is not in them.

My understanding of this scripture is that it takes a whole days wage just to pay for a meal.

 

 

On 9/30/2017 at 3:10 AM, DieChecker said:

Given modern prices the 2 pounds of Wheat are about 20 cents and the 6 pounds of Barley is about 45 cents.

Though I think anyone would be hard pressed to eat 6 pounds of barley as a meal. That would be close to a 1 gallon milk jug in volume.

:D

Idk about that, because I buy flour regularly and it's about 4 dollars a bag, and I think the bag is about 5 pounds or so. 

On about the chapter 2 Kings 7, where it gives the reference to the rider on the black horse.  It was Elisha, and he got in trouble because he said something to the King that he should or shouldn't attack this other king.  Then that got the whole city into trouble because the other king surrounded them and they had a famine, and I think that was the part where the king of Israel saw some women in the city fighting over each other about eating their children.  Because one said to the other that they'd eat her baby today, and the other woman's the next day.  But the other woman hid her baby after they ate the other woman's baby or something.  So, the king saw that, and got mad and went out to kill Elisha, but then the miracle happened.  For some reason, I don't remember, it's in those chapters, the other king's army got spooked away and some lepers went in and came back and reported that the whole army was gone.  So Israel went in and took all the spoils they left behind, and were selling the fine flour and barley for a shekel, which is what Elisha said would happen right before the king was going to kill him.  So they had a great feast and ended their famine.  But Elisha says the same thing the rider on the black horse said.

So, when I read it before, it never made sense to me that the food would be sold for cheap, I always thought it meant bad tidings that food would be scarce, and I was confused because the rider does say that it's to be sold for a small amount of money.  People call him famine or pestilence though, so I don't know. 

I just looked it up, and the translations differ.  The King James says, they're sold for a penny, but the NIV says they're sold for a day's wages, the American Standard Version says they're sold for a shilling, but other translations says for a days wages.  I guess that's where the confusion comes in.  There's other places translations differ too.  So I guess it's unclear, because of 2 Kings chapter 7:1 where Elisha says it.

I have to agree that it makes more sense for it to be spun that it's a famine thing where the wheat and barley are sold for a day's wages.  That it's some sort of reversal on Elisha's miracle from God.

The other places the KJV differs is about being lead into captivity.  In Jeremiah he says, whoever is to be meant to be lead into captivity into captivity he will be lead.  And most translations say that same thing in Revelation, but in the KJV it says whoever leads into captivity, into captivity he will go.  Which I guess is a thing with condemn not lest ye be condemned, and the other sayings about he who lives by the sword shall die by the sword.  However, I think Jeremiah makes more sense.  Which I guess is another reversal across each other with the whole Elisha thing and the rider on the black horse.

It's kind of an interesting thing with reversals, however the other part of Isaiah find interesting is in one part he seems to give a description of the new Jerusalem, and the New Earth, except Isaiah talks about it as having your wives there, and building new houses with your children on the New Earth.  However Jesus says in the Gospels that all that are worthy to obtain the resurrection neither marry nor are given in marriage.  And then he goes on to say they err not knowing the scriptures or the power or God.  Except in the scriptures, and what I know of the power of God, it says it differently.  Because I don't think God likes separating people like that, if it would matter.

So, when Jesus gives this line from the Gospels about the part where the Sadducees question him about the woman with 7 husbands.  Jesus gives an answer that seems to cause a lot of trouble, but the Old Prophets, it seems makes perfect sense.  The thing I would wonder, is why can't the woman and her 7 husbands just have some difficulty in the next world?  I mean it seems the power of God to me, that none of them had any children with her, so they could all reason it out without a major dispute when they are resurrected.  Because, with all the peace, it seems like they could just be able to let it go....

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MauriOra

Revelation 13:16-17, "And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a Mark in their right hand, or in their Foreheads: And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the Mark, or the Name of the Beast, or the number of his Name..   Note that there is not just a Mark, but also a Name and a Number. What does the State always need from you? The PERSONS NAME and Birth Date or other Important Numbers. You cannot do Business with the State without these nor can you open a Bank account or access many other conveniences of Modern life without them. Each year it becomes more challenging to buy and sell without the Name or Number of the Beast. But the MARK is the real kicker and it has been sitting there in scripture all along  Exodus 13:9, "And it shall be for a sign unto thee Upon Thine Hand and for a memorial between Thine Eyes, that God's Law may be in thy Mouth.. Ever heard the saying MARK my WORDS.. I read this in some papers I was studying and I found it interesting. There's more but I thought this fitted the topic to me.. 

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Opus Magnus

Yeah, it all appears to be getting that way. However, there have always been banks and censuses. The False Prophet is prophesised to have power to trample the saints and angels for 42 months. It's gone well overtime.

As Jesus replied to the Saducees about if it is right to pay taxes, "Whose inscription is on the coin? Render unto Caesar what is Caesars'."

However, inventions increase as Solomon and the book of Daniel said they would.

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Opus Magnus

There are laws and regulations still that protect religious sovereignty. And some that literally allow us to refuse consecutive 6's.

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GoldenWolf
On 9/18/2017 at 9:04 PM, Ogbin said:

 

On 9/13/2017 at 1:45 PM, Opus Magnus said:

So, from Revelation 21:8

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

 

On 9/15/2017 at 11:43 AM, Guyver said:

I don't know if you believe any of this stuff or not; but if you do, here's a couple things to think about.

1.  David and Moses are in hell because they were murderers.

2.  All people are liars, and therefore everyone is going to hell.  

So, according to this "bible" verse; everyone is going to hell.  I mean, just derp.  

 

No.. not everyone is going to Hell. Only those who reject Christ Jesus as their Lord and Savior are going to Hell according to the Bible.

On 9/13/2017 at 1:45 PM, Opus Magnus said:

 

And Revelation 22:14-15

14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

 

 

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Opus Magnus

I've just been informed: if you divide 144,000 as mentioned in Revelation as the number of sealed Jews before the great tribulation, and divide by 6 three times, you end up with 666.666666666 repeating. 

I think there are many more ironies like this too.

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Opus Magnus

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/547336001

"USA Today article"

"You Will Get Chipped - Eventually...."

It's things like this. Employees getting chipped in Wisconsin for their jobs. And some people want to pass a law making it mandatory for all workers to take a chip implant.

It fits into the prophecy. It doesn't take a genius to realize this is a cancerous idea. My hope is that our laws and constitutions protect us from some idiot bringing this into being until at least 200 years from now.

 

Edited by Opus Magnus

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Opus Magnus

https://www.google.com/amp/www.latimes.com/business/technology/la-fi-tn-microchip-employees-20170403-story.html%3foutputType=amp

Also, there are more companies doing it like in this article. It doesn't bother me if people want to microchip themselves. Because the whole prophecy isn't fulfilled. And it is fun to tempt Satan taking one early, when God can't get you for it. But, it's just a sign of the times that people want it so bad. But it has always been this way. With enough planning you could start the mark of the beast with physical carving. So, there's nothing new under the sun.

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Guyver
22 minutes ago, Opus Magnus said:

https://www.google.com/amp/www.latimes.com/business/technology/la-fi-tn-microchip-employees-20170403-story.html%3foutputType=amp

Also, there are more companies doing it like in this article. It doesn't bother me if people want to microchip themselves. Because the whole prophecy isn't fulfilled. And it is fun to tempt Satan taking one early, when God can't get you for it. But, it's just a sign of the times that people want it so bad. But it has always been this way. With enough planning you could start the mark of the beast with physical carving. So, there's nothing new under the sun.

Judging from your post here, it seems clear that you consider the Revelation a valid prophecy, and I bet I can guess why.  You consider it valid because it's in the bible.  Do you think it possible that there are false words, concepts or prophecies to be found in the bible or is it perfect.....without any fault or error?

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Guyver
23 minutes ago, Opus Magnus said:

With enough planning you could start the mark of the beast with physical carving. So, there's nothing new under the sun.

The technology that you think equals the mark of the beast is new.....it didn't exist when the bible was written.  So, there are new things under the sun.  Many things are new.....electric cars are new compared to the old gas powered ones.  Cars didn't exist when the bible was written.....but horse drawn carriages did exist.  So, in a sense.....people being moved by a force not their own is not a new thing.....but the technologies that allow cars to exist are new.

In any event, the Mark of the Beast is only found in the Revelation - aka - the Apocalypse of John.  Are you aware that there is another Apocalypse written by an Apostle besides John's that was also found in the earliest bibles?  It is the Apocalypse of Peter.  It is not the same as the Revelation and says nothing about a mark of the beast.  

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Guyver

The bible states clearly that prophesy is to be judged (1 Cor. 14:29).  

The bible states that a false prophesy can be identified, and rejected (Deut 18:22).

According to the bible's own standards about judging and considering prophecy; the Revelation is a false prophecy.  The Revelation claims in several places, not the least of which is the very first verse of the prophecy, that the things written in it were to happen in the lifetimes of those who would read the prophecy.  Since they did not occur, by definition....the Revelation is a false prophecy.....

There is no Mark of the Beast.  I hope this helps, but I don't know if it will.  

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Opus Magnus

Well, technology as Solomon puts it, has always been the same, but keeps getting worse. Even computers, which are just like a calculator with magnets aligned to store places. But, whether Revelation is new or not, the human race is looking null from overpopulation. Because it would require an extinction of part of the species to continue in this state, that nature will probably take care on its own. Because I don't think the entire species has ever had a decline in growth before that might be on the way except for a great flood or if we were to terraform other planets.

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Opus Magnus

Albeit, the whole point of God was to be fruitiful and multiply. So, personally, I am against all forms of population control. Except for the forms of usury mentioned in the Torah, which are like selective taxation. But, the mark of the beast would be a way to use population control with a self fulfilling prophecy. Unless it were to happen naturally, or by the Left Hand of God, through the delusions Saul describes happens to people without Illuminati light from God. It just is the ability to see far in thought like we have difficulty in seeing in the dark outside the body. So, deception and trickery in the Art of Warfare. 

But, as for the Universe 9 experiments described earlier in this thread, the rats were in a contained environment, and were being fed by an outside source, a human hand. It somewhat resembles human city life, but as the experimentor mentioned humans aren't rats. There is supposed to be an escape from the vain evolution of all things, and in the way of Jesus Christ.

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