Gun owners could help fight terror attack

[Still Waters]

A police commissioner has caused alarm among rank and file officers by suggesting that members of the public who own guns could help defend rural areas against terror attacks. Alison Hernandez, the Devon and Cornwall police and crime commissioner, said she was interested in having a conversation with the chief constable about whether ordinary people with gun licences could assist in a terrorist crisis.

The comments have caused alarm within the force and prompted a stern warning from a senior officer that citizens should not arm themselves.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/12/gunowners-could-help-fight-terror-attack-says-police-commissioner

[Kismit]

This is worrying. Fear breeds like wild fire and is an incredibly dangerous force. It takes away peoples ability to judge and think accurately. Couple that with a vigilante attitude of righteousness.

That's more work for the legal protection force.

[Future ghost]

Mr. Nethertons suggestion to run, hide, and tell is rather lame since that's exactly what terrorists want. They want us to be afraid, and to run and hide. Maybe they would think differently if ordinary citizens could blast them a new one and ruin their chances of getting 72 virgins. 

[LV-426]

It's a bit of a bizarre story to be honest.

For anyone outside Britain, what we're basically talking about here is farmers with shotguns living in remote areas of the countryside - not exactly terrorism hotspots...

The stories they are typically linked with is whether they have access to broadband, or whether they get network coverage for their phones.

[kartikg]

If rural areas have less police force a few volunteers could be trained to handle guns and coordinate with police during attacks, of course I am not saying arm them but spare guns can be kept in safe lockers in banks police station etc and when need arrives these citizens can be of help. 

[hetrodoxly]

2 hours ago, LV-426 said:

It's a bit of a bizarre story to be honest.

For anyone outside Britain, what we're basically talking about here is farmers with shotguns living in remote areas of the countryside - not exactly terrorism hotspots...

The stories they are typically linked with is whether they have access to broadband, or whether they get network coverage for their phones.

It's not just shotguns there's a lot of firearms out there, the police already call on and expect licence holders to help out in an emergency ie a dangerous bull running wild or injured deer at the side of the road.

[Sweetpumper]

4 hours ago, Still Waters said:

A police commissioner has caused alarm among rank and file officers by suggesting that members of the public who own guns could help defend rural areas against terror attacks.

LMAO.

[eugenonegin]

I think we would all sleep more soundly in our beds if we knew the Devon and Cornwall farmers were on standby to respond to a terror attack in London or Manchester.

[Dark_Grey]

Having Police officers witness an act of terror and run back to get Police officers with guns seems really counter-productive. Seriously, UK.

[The Caspian Hare]

Having read what she said ... I don't think this is as crazy as if first appears IF the idea is to have people protect their own town in an emergency to free up police for use elsewhere. Or something along those lines. That is basically what a militia used to be.

So long as they would only be used in a limited area during a major disturbance, not regularly kicking down the door to kidnap Mohamed the grocer.

[.ZZ.]

4 hours ago, Kismit said:

This is worrying. Fear breeds like wild fire and is an incredibly dangerous force. It takes away peoples ability to judge and think accurately. Couple that with a vigilante attitude of righteousness.

That's more work for the legal protection force.

Please explain how self defense is "righteousness".

[Essan]

The main problem I see is that gamekeepers and farmers may have guns and may be very good marksmen, but they have never shot nor ever expected to need to have to shoot, a person.   Whereas police marksmen are trained specifically to do such a thing.

Shooting a deer is one thing.  Being expected to shoot another man in cold blood, repeatedly (to ensure he is dead)  is quite another.  It's not nearly as easy as it looks in the movies  

[Still Waters]

5 hours ago, Future ghost said:

Mr. Nethertons suggestion to run, hide, and tell is rather lame since that's exactly what terrorists want. They want us to be afraid, and to run and hide. 

Nevertheless, that is the standard advice given -

Quote

How to survive a terror attack: Run and hide - don't play dead, says official UK security advice

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/0/how-to-survive-a-terror-attack-run-and-hide---dont-play-dead-say/

 

[Setton]

4 hours ago, LV-426 said:

It's a bit of a bizarre story to be honest.

For anyone outside Britain, what we're basically talking about here is farmers with shotguns living in remote areas of the countryside - not exactly terrorism hotspots...

The stories they are typically linked with is whether they have access to broadband, or whether they get network coverage for their phones.

I'm just getting visions of Hot Fuzz reading this...

1 hour ago, Dark_Grey said:

Having Police officers witness an act of terror and run back to get Police officers with guns seems really counter-productive. Seriously, UK.

Rather that than have police shoot innocent people.

[Duke Wellington]

6 hours ago, Still Waters said:

A police commissioner has caused alarm among rank and file officers by suggesting that members of the public who own guns could help defend rural areas against terror attacks. Alison Hernandez, the Devon and Cornwall police and crime commissioner, said she was interested in having a conversation with the chief constable about whether ordinary people with gun licences could assist in a terrorist crisis.

The comments have caused alarm within the force and prompted a stern warning from a senior officer that citizens should not arm themselves.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/12/gunowners-could-help-fight-terror-attack-says-police-commissioner

I think guns should be legalised but with controls to reduce spree killers

[Grey Area]

2 hours ago, Dark_Grey said:

Having Police officers witness an act of terror and run back to get Police officers with guns seems really counter-productive. Seriously, UK.

They don't have to run back anywhere, this is the 21st century and every officer is issued with a shiny police issue whistle!

[Dark_Grey]

51 minutes ago, Setton said:

Rather that than have police shoot innocent people, innocent people are stabbed or run over

That's the justification for disarming Police? They might shoot innocent people? How many people did they shoot that posed a threat to the public? Let's see the numbers before making a "feelings" judgement call

[bee]

 

if Islamic Jihad terrorist attacks continue to escalate we might in the future have to have specially trained
civilian armed marksmen and women whose job it is to be ready to take out attackers at public venues , 
shopping centres, train stations etc...?.....

If there had been a marksman or woman on duty at the Bataclan theatre in Paris perhaps they could have
shot the terrorists before they could kill so many of the public..

One chilling thing I heard about the London Bridge attack was that the men going around slitting throats and
stabbing people were said by one witness to be wondering around in a relaxed manner as if they owned the place..!

They were safe in the knowledge that they had time to do a lot of damage until armed police arrived -

 

[stevewinn]

Its absolutely bonkers. The Armed Police put in Hours and hours of training to achieve the highest standard in marksmanship and tactics.

Having Civilians/ Farmers from the dog and duck running about getting in each others way, with very little training in tactical response its a recipe for disaster.

The police commissioner should be pushing the Idea for all our Police officers to carry a gun. not civilians to jump in.

[The Caspian Hare]

One thing occurs to me if we are talking about rural areas, is that they could be used for infrastructure protection, because there are not nearly enough police (or even military) to guard every electrical substation, transformer, wind turbine, etc.

So these would be limited to a very small area and very limited role, and only for duration of the crisis. Since they would be locals they will also have advantage of being familiar with the area, who belongs there, what looks out of place.

Obviously they will not be able to stop a determined assault by ISIS, but against a couple yahoo with knives they could have value.

[Essan]

25 minutes ago, stevewinn said:

Its absolutely bonkers. The Armed Police put in Hours and hours of training to achieve the highest standard in marksmanship and tactics.

Having Civilians/ Farmers from the dog and duck running about getting in each others way, with very little training in tactical response its a recipe for disaster.

The police commissioner should be pushing the Idea for all our Police officers to carry a gun. not civilians to jump in.

Or just a handful of soldiers.  

I believe Dartmoor usually has a few firing shells at one another ......   Could be easily deployed to protect St Ives or Porlock   

[Future ghost]

2 hours ago, Still Waters said:

Nevertheless, that is the standard advice given -

 

I think this advice is meant for people who are unarmed in public during an attack, and it's good advice for such a situation. But if for some odd reason terrorists decide to venture into rural areas, the residents should be allowed to protect themselves any way they can, and if that involves the use of firearms so be it.

[Essan]

28 minutes ago, The Russian Hare said:

One thing occurs to me if we are talking about rural areas, is that they could be used for infrastructure protection, because there are not nearly enough police (or even military) to guard every electrical substation, transformer, wind turbine, etc.

 

Hmmm, I can see a great Dads Army style sit-com here, about a group of local yokels guarding a wind farm in Cornwall from Daesh terrorists  

[Gary Meadows]

Nothing keeps you safer than a bunch of people shooting at each other in a panic.

[eugenonegin]

2 hours ago, bee said:

 

if Islamic Jihad terrorist attacks continue to escalate we might in the future have to have specially trained
civilian armed marksmen and women whose job it is to be ready to take out attackers at public venues , 
shopping centres, train stations etc...?.....

If there had been a marksman or woman on duty at the Bataclan theatre in Paris perhaps they could have
shot the terrorists before they could kill so many of the public..

One chilling thing I heard about the London Bridge attack was that the men going around slitting throats and
stabbing people were said by one witness to be wondering around in a relaxed manner as if they owned the place..!

They were safe in the knowledge that they had time to do a lot of damage until armed police arrived -

 

The idea of armed civilians providing protection has been mooted with regard to school shootings in the USA.

Two major problems have been highlighted: the professionals, when they arrive, may not be able to distinguish between a civilian shooter with evil intent and one with benign intent and end up shooting the wrong person; and also,if you train a civilian sufficiently to act appropriately, you may as well forget about a civilian being there at all and employ a professional guard, which defeats the idea. Expecting members of the public just to carry guns and make a judgement about using them is fraught with problems.