Space Commander Travis Posted June 15, 2017 #201 Share Posted June 15, 2017 3 minutes ago, kartikg said: the residents are to be blamed partially they knew the building was fire hazard and after seeing that their complaints were not addressed by whomever responsible should have put some money on their own for alarms and sprinklers. I have seen this kind of mindset before. (a) probably many of them had enough on to scrape enough together for day-to-day things, and (b) rigging up sprinklers entirely off their own bat without the permission of the landlord? I rather doubt that would be tolerated. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Silver Thong Posted June 15, 2017 #202 Share Posted June 15, 2017 1 minute ago, Manfred von Dreidecker said: So why don't you share some of yours then, if you think you know but will not say? Why not offer your advice to the Police and the Fire service? I'm sure they'd be most grateful. Why do you want me to tell people how to burn down a highrise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post glorybebe Posted June 15, 2017 Popular Post #203 Share Posted June 15, 2017 29 minutes ago, kartikg said: the residents are to be blamed partially they knew the building was fire hazard and after seeing that their complaints were not addressed by whomever responsible should have put some money on their own for alarms and sprinklers. I have seen this kind of mindset before. That is one of the most callous things I have read in a long time. These were low income families. They could not pack up and just move, they reported the problems. They were not financially secure to fix the building themselves and they should not have had to. A company was being paid to manage the building, making a profit on these people living there and to keep the profitability going, they cut corners and did not put the renters safety first. The residents in no way, shape or form can or should be blamed for this tragedy. 17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Setton Posted June 15, 2017 Popular Post #204 Share Posted June 15, 2017 37 minutes ago, kartikg said: the residents are to be blamed partially they knew the building was fire hazard and after seeing that their complaints were not addressed by whomever responsible should have put some money on their own for alarms and sprinklers. I have seen this kind of mindset before. Well this not only callous but also woefully uninformed. This was social housing. People who can't afford their own place to live. They don't have the money to spare for things like that. Secondly, they don't own the property. They aren't allowed to make changes to it. It's the responsibility of the landlord and if, as it seems, they have cut corners and compromised safety, there should be some serious jail time. 15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.United_Nations Posted June 15, 2017 #205 Share Posted June 15, 2017 1 hour ago, kartikg said: the residents are to be blamed partially they knew the building was fire hazard and after seeing that their complaints were not addressed by whomever responsible should have put some money on their own for alarms and sprinklers. I have seen this kind of mindset before. Tell me.can you afford a sprinkler system? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freetoroam Posted June 15, 2017 #206 Share Posted June 15, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Mr.United_Nations said: Tell me.can you afford a sprinkler system? They should be on every floor...paid for by the coucil, but not all council blocks have them....but every floor does have some form of fire extinguisher, ours had a hose on each floor, also every flat should have their own fire alarm and fire extinguisher, especially when you know the block is a risk....these can be obtained for free 2 hours ago, Setton said: People who can't afford their own place to live. They don't have the money to spare for things like that. I am from a sky rise council block...we are not all poor people. many are hard working respectable people and although not able to buy their own homes, does not mean you are living the life of poverty. We had a roof over our heads, heating, running water and 90% of us had dignity and respect for where we lived and who we lived next to. most of the flats had tv and their mod coms....but people have to also take responsibilty for their own safety too AND think about the safety of others around them those on the higher floors are only safe if those below them are being vigilant.... The fire brigade give out free smoke alarms and do checks in peoples flats.....FOR FREE to those who need and and want it. no excuse not to have this done....especially if you have been concerned about the block you live in: http://www.london-fire.gov.uk/SmokeAlarms.asp please note.. .no matter how careful people are, i still think families should not be living in these high rise flats...unless every one of them have regular checks and each flat is equipped. i now own my own boat...but life was not easy in those block...mainly because of the 10% who made it bad. Edited June 15, 2017 by freetoroam 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acute Posted June 15, 2017 #207 Share Posted June 15, 2017 This tragic event was waiting to happen. The fact that there has been an Action Group protesting about the management of the building says it all. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post ExpandMyMind Posted June 15, 2017 Popular Post #208 Share Posted June 15, 2017 2 hours ago, kartikg said: the residents are to be blamed partially they knew the building was fire hazard and after seeing that their complaints were not addressed by whomever responsible should have put some money on their own for alarms and sprinklers. I have seen this kind of mindset before. This takes blaming the victim to a whole new level. 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Daughter of the Nine Moons Posted June 15, 2017 Popular Post #209 Share Posted June 15, 2017 How about we have the decency and compassion to leave the victim blaming and conspiracy theories at the door until at the very least the victims are all accounted for and the fire department has issued their report? 15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freetoroam Posted June 15, 2017 #210 Share Posted June 15, 2017 18 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said: This takes blaming the victim to a whole new level. Up to a point i agree with Kartikg, when i lived in a sky scrapper there was one fire which gutted the flat...this was due to the resident leaving a chip pan on and going out. we had numerous fires in the chutes, these were due to people putting their rubbish in the chute with still lit cigarettes and most were started in the chute area by kids or arsonists..so there is reason to blame the initial fire starter...BUT this case has got way wat out of hand.....the blame lies also with the council etc . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acute Posted June 15, 2017 #211 Share Posted June 15, 2017 (edited) Apparently, there are between 3000 and 4000 tower blocks in the UK (depending on what you call high-rise) and only 18 of them have sprinkler systems. The vast majority have fire hoses on every floor, which is adequate for most situations. Edited June 15, 2017 by acute . 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Wellington Posted June 15, 2017 #212 Share Posted June 15, 2017 The firefighters have said the blaze started in a flat on floor 2 (they haven't confirmed it was an exploding fridge yet) and have said it took an estimated 4 minutes to climb above the 12th floor. They say it is highly likely the fire spread so fast because of the exterior wooden cladding. And, unfortunately, because by the time they had arrived it had already passed the 12th floor there was nothing they could do with their fire engine hoses. This is because they could only reach 12 floors up. Nasty. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freetoroam Posted June 15, 2017 #213 Share Posted June 15, 2017 28 minutes ago, Daughter of the Nine Moons said: How about we have the decency and compassion to leave the victim blaming and conspiracy theories at the door until at the very least the victims are all accounted for and the fire department has issued their report? Growing up in one of these blocks and seeing a fire 2 floors below me....i can honestly say this case here has left me numb. I can not even start to say how much pain i feel for all the victims and their families....it is heart wrenching. I feel complete utter pain for them all and yet at the same time anger as i recall my experiences with a tower block fire....but what has happened here is every bodies nightmare living in a council blocks like this. My heart goes out to the victims and my praises and much respect and admiration to our fire fighters and medical personel. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LV-426 Posted June 15, 2017 #214 Share Posted June 15, 2017 6 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said: The firefighters have said the blaze started in a flat on floor 2 (they haven't confirmed it was an exploding fridge yet) and have said it took an estimated 4 minutes to climb above the 12th floor. They say it is highly likely the fire spread so fast because of the exterior wooden cladding. And, unfortunately, because by the time they had arrived it had already passed the 12th floor there was nothing they could do with their fire engine hoses. This is because they could only reach 12 floors up. Nasty. It reportedly took fifteen minutes to spread from the second floor to the roof. It's being reported today that this type of cladding has been linked with other fires too: London fire: Grenfell Tower cladding 'linked to other fires' "The cladding installed on Grenfell Tower was also used on other buildings that have been hit by fires around the world, the BBC has learned. The exterior cladding, added in 2015, had a polyethylene - or plastic - core instead of an even more fireproof alternative, BBC Newsnight understands. High-rise buildings in France, the UAE and Australia that had similar cladding have all been hit by fires that spread." There's some serious questions that need to be answered, but if this cladding is in widespread use, it must be meeting building regs around the world? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freetoroam Posted June 15, 2017 #215 Share Posted June 15, 2017 8 minutes ago, RabidMongoose said: The firefighters have said the blaze started in a flat on floor 2 (they haven't confirmed it was an exploding fridge yet) and have said it took an estimated 4 minutes to climb above the 12th floor. They say it is highly likely the fire spread so fast because of the exterior wooden cladding. And, unfortunately, because by the time they had arrived it had already passed the 12th floor there was nothing they could do with their fire engine hoses. This is because they could only reach 12 floors up. Nasty. The exploding fridge story was on the 4th floor. Have to wait and see what the reports say about how it started. but this now puts a whole new look on all the flats which have been cladded....they would have to have been at least fire retardant....you can not even buy a new sofa without a fire safety label. In this country there are so many rules about fire safety......we are a health and safety country, it would be interesting to know how long this fire was burning for inside the flat before getting to an uncontrollable stage where it got through to the fire retardant cladding and being at the point where it could spread so quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still Waters Posted June 15, 2017 #216 Share Posted June 15, 2017 The latest death toll has reached 17. It's been estimated the final death toll could be as much as 100 or more. Quote There are still “unknown numbers” of people missing in the Grenfell Tower disaster and it could be weeks before the final death toll is established, London’s fire commissioner said today. Dany Cotton said that “tragically we are not expecting to find anyone else alive” as the number of fatalities confirmed so far rose to 17. Sniffer dogs were being sent in to search for further victims, she said. She warned that it would “take a long time” for firefighters to conduct a full search of the tower block because of the severity of the blaze. http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/grenfell-tower-fire-death-toll-reaches-17-as-fire-chief-says-no-more-survivors-a3565656.html 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daughter of the Nine Moons Posted June 15, 2017 #217 Share Posted June 15, 2017 2 minutes ago, Still Waters said: The latest death toll has reached 17. It's been estimated the final death toll could be as much as 100 or more. That's awful. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Still Waters Posted June 15, 2017 Popular Post #218 Share Posted June 15, 2017 Quote London's fire chief has said that some of her firefighters have been left "truly traumatised" by the horrific blaze at Grenfell Tower. Dany Cotton said her crews had witnessed some terrible things, including seeing people jumping from windows and throwing their children out of the burning building. http://news.sky.com/story/firefighters-left-truly-traumatised-by-grenfell-tower-blaze-10916232 These are the kind of people who deserve medals and honours, not the people who act in films and play football. 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eugenonegin Posted June 15, 2017 #219 Share Posted June 15, 2017 The leader of Southwark council has just pointed out on the radio that of the past recent tower block fires in the UK which have cost lives, and this fire, they have been social housing - private blocks have modern safety features. We should all be ashamed of ourselves in the UK for allowing this to happen when tax money, if it was spent, could prevent these tragedies. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeder Posted June 15, 2017 #220 Share Posted June 15, 2017 3 hours ago, freetoroam said: The exploding fridge story was on the 4th floor. Have to wait and see what the reports say about how it started. but this now puts a whole new look on all the flats which have been cladded....they would have to have been at least fire retardant....you can not even buy a new sofa without a fire safety label. In this country there are so many rules about fire safety......we are a health and safety country, it would be interesting to know how long this fire was burning for inside the flat before getting to an uncontrollable stage where it got through to the fire retardant cladding and being at the point where it could spread so quickly. Quote Was cladding to blame for rapid spread of fire? Cheap 'Polystyrene-type' may have helped spread devastating blaze after it 'went up like a matchstick' - as council is accused of penny pinching despite warnings not to take cheapest bid Cheap cladding could be to blame for rapid spread of fire which killed 12 people Blaze started in the early hours of this morning and 27-storey building destroyed Materials were added to block to 'improve the view' for the luxury flats nearby Boss behind the £10million refurbishment of 1970s tower block admitted he does not know what the cladding is made from Checks are to be carried out on tower blocks going through similar refurbishment to Grenfell Tower, policing and fire minister Nick Hurd has said Woman who worked as a property manager for Kensington and Chelsea Council for 20 years said the deadly blaze could have been prevented Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4604296/Was-cladding-blame-spread-tower-block-fire.html#ixzz4k51cqzFs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+susieice Posted June 15, 2017 #221 Share Posted June 15, 2017 This is so sad. Whole families are unaccounted for. It will take weeks before anything is known. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeder Posted June 15, 2017 #222 Share Posted June 15, 2017 3 hours ago, freetoroam said: The exploding fridge story was on the 4th floor. Quote The man 'whose faulty fridge started Grenfell Tower inferno': Ethiopian taxi driver raised alarm when blaze started in his kitchen, neighbour claims Behailu Kebede raised the alarm in the Grenfell Tower inferno, neighbour claims Father of one, Ethiopian taxi driver, discovered the fire in his fourth floor kitchen Banged on neighbour's door and alerted her to the fire, potentially saving lives Maryam Adam, 41, said neighbour knocked on her door to warn her at 12.50am At 12.54am 999 was called and the first engines arrived within six minutes After another 15 minutes the whole of the west London tower was largely alight Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4606078/Man-flat-tower-fire-started-packed-CLOTHES.html#ixzz4k52FBOeh 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeder Posted June 15, 2017 #223 Share Posted June 15, 2017 Quote Rescuers say finding a survivor in the inferno tower would be a 'miracle' raising fears HUNDREDS have died as ministers face mounting pressure over why 'fire hazard' cladding was used 17 people are known to have died in tower block blaze - although death toll is expected to rise significantly London Labour MP David Lammy called for arrests and said he feared 'hundreds' may have died Fire crews have managed to get to the top but not enter flats or rooms because it is too precarious London fire chief said today that it would be 'miracle' if anyone was still alive in the burnt-out building A full inspection of the building will be carried out to work out whether it is safe for recovery to continue Theresa May is visiting the site today, amid claims ministers turned a blind eye to fire safety concerns Seventy eight people were taken to hospital, with 18 of those fighting for lives in critical conditions Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4605360/Cladding-turned-tiny-fire-hell.html#ixzz4k54G9YGY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeder Posted June 15, 2017 #224 Share Posted June 15, 2017 Quote Battery farms in the sky: Starting in the Fifties, the people who thought they knew best built multi-storey monstrosities. With the same disdain they forced others to live in them, writes RICHARD PENDLEBURY Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4605604/RICHARD-PENDLEBURY-Towers-battery-farms-sky.html#ixzz4k55cFSuV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeder Posted June 15, 2017 #225 Share Posted June 15, 2017 Quote It's corporate manslaughter': London MP calls for arrests saying hundreds may have died after warnings over dangerous cladding were ignored David Lammy voiced fury at the massive death toll in the London tower block fire Close friend Khadija Saye, 24, and her mother Mary, lived on the 20th floor Says he fears 'hundreds' will have lost their lives when final toll becomes clear Brands the disaster 'corporate manslaughter' and demands arrests are made Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4606432/Corporate-manslaughter-MP-s-fury-Grenfell-Tower-fire.html#ixzz4k56GxOXY 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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