Massive blaze in London, U.K. high-rise

[hetrodoxly]

3 minutes ago, oldrover said:

Well, as for the initial cause who knows yet, but why don't you try reading what the residents themselves have been saying? Are you aware of the series of power surges the building experienced recently? 

Read  what the residents concerns were rather than bad mouthing politicians who have a stance on this. 

I've read so many different reasons so far one on TV who said it was done by the Conservatives to get them out, so i'll give the speculation a pass until we know the facts.

[hetrodoxly]

59 minutes ago, oldrover said:

Well, as for the initial cause who knows yet, but why don't you try reading what the residents themselves have been saying? Are you aware of the series of power surges the building experienced recently? 

Read  what the residents concerns were rather than bad mouthing politicians who have a stance on this. 

He deserves bad mouthing he's a ***** we don't even know how many are dead yet, he'll have all the time in the world to point fingers when we have the facts.

[F3SS]

 

5 hours ago, The Russian Hare said:

Wait, I am now reading that there was no sprinkler to begin with. Is this legal in London?

There was a high rise fire in the news recently I think it was here in Pittsburgh. It was recently renovated and had no sprinkler system. Turned out that the building was built long before sprinkler systems were required and so a no sprinkler requirement was grandfathered in. 

3 hours ago, Susanc241 said:

Apparently the mother shouted out she was dropping the baby and begged someone to catch it.  Can't confirm this but news reports mention this a few times.

I couldn't imagine the decisions people have to make in such a situation.

[Duke Wellington]

So from what I can tell a guys fridge exploded in one of the bottom flats. He knocked on neighbours to get them out. Unfortunately the wooden material cladding the outside of the tower block was combustible and that caused the fires rapid spread.

When the fire brigade got there the ladders and hoses only allowed them to reach up 12 floors and even though it only took them 6 minutes to arrive the fire had already climbed above that height. So there was absolutely nothing they could do with the people above that. They couldn't get them out with ladders or direct the hoses through their windows. They could only send in firefighters with fire extinguishers in the hope they could reach the ones at the top in time.

[hetrodoxly]

It shows the mis information were receiving, on tv just they showed a video a poor woman made at 1:00 and loaded to social media, the police were shouting through loudhailer telling them to get out of the building, talking about social media i see Corbyns been lambasted for playing politics over the bodies of the dead and rightly so he thinks he's untouchable.

[hetrodoxly]

1 minute ago, RabidMongoose said:

So from what I can tell a guys fridge exploded in one of the bottom flats. He knocked on neighbours to get them out. Unfortunately the wooden material cladding the outside of the tower block was combustible and that caused the fires rapid spread.

When the fire brigade got there the ladders and hoses only allowed them to reach up 12 floors and even though it only took them 6 minutes to arrive the fire had already climbed above that height. So there was absolutely nothing they could do with the people above that. They couldn't get them out with ladders or direct the hoses through their windows. They could only send in firefighters with fire extinguishers in the hope they could reach the ones at the top in time.

This was the news at 6:00 this morning, i'm seeing on tv 'they don't know the reason'

[Still Waters]

Both the BBC and Sky have live updates:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-england-london-40239008

http://news.sky.com/story/west-london-fire-live-fire-service-chief-confirms-there-have-been-fatalities-10915010

Quote

At least 12 killed in blaze, 68 people taken to hospital - 18 in critical condition

Quote

Emergency services have moved from the "rescue phase" of their operation to the "recovery phase", London Mayor Sadiq Khan says.

Quote

Met Police's Stuart Cundy says death toll will rise, adding: "I don't think any more survivors will be found"

 I dread to think what the final figures will be  

[Kismit]

4 hours ago, Manfred von Dreidecker said:

oh God, do we see the stirrings of a conspiracy theory in which almost inevitably, members of a certain religious/ethnic group in particular will end up being blamed? 

I seriously hope not. I think the best evidwnce against a wacko theory like that would be the ethnic population living, or most likely now deceased, in the housing block.

[Kismit]

6 minutes ago, Still Waters said:

Both the BBC and Sky have live updates:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-england-london-40239008

http://news.sky.com/story/west-london-fire-live-fire-service-chief-confirms-there-have-been-fatalities-10915010

 I dread to think what the final figures will be  

Such a tradgedy. Hard to believe this could happen,  with the government agencies created for safety, the tax money used to create laws and bylaws of protection. The technological systems we have to prevent these things. And just common bloody sense. These where people, not numbers, not revenue delivery systems. It sickens me to my stomache.

I am a private landlord, and my homes are marketed to families. The yards are fenced and safe, the chimneys anually swept(at our expense), electrical work is all current and certified, the homes are insulated and maintained. Smoke alarms and two fire exits provided from every room.

We even allow for the family to keep a limited number of pets, because children grow better when they grow up with animals. 

Why can't people just bloody well be decent to each other.

[glorybebe]

It is just so horrible to read the newslinks.  So preventable.  And it wasn't like the residents who complained could just move somewhere safer.  Human greed and the lack of compassion for fellow humans is getting to be a way of life.  I feel so sad when I think of the future for the human race.

[freetoroam]

6 hours ago, Manfred von Dreidecker said:

oh God, do we see the stirrings of a conspiracy theory in which almost inevitably, members of a certain religious/ethnic group in particular will end up being blamed? 

Numerous should be blamed...no matter what their religion or race, the Kensington and Chelsea Tenant Management Organisation and the council and Rydon Construction and who ever started the fire should all be held accountable.

yes accidents do happen in kitchens, but we have here a block of flats where the tenants have repeatedly said it was a death trap.....and yet someone still managed to start a fire inside their flat.... reports are saying  possibly in a kitchen on the 2nd floor....but we also have the 4th floor.

I have always said ....everyone.....should  have, carbon monoxide alarms, smoke alarms and fire extinguisher in their homes.

I grew up on the 16th floor in a London skyscraper,  where i grew up, each floor had a fire hose, would be interesting to see if this block did and why it was not used. I have said in the past...all flats within the tower blocks should have checks, it is not just down to the building...trust me, i have seen some of those flats over crowded and some where the fire hazzard was inside the flat by those living in there.

this block had 127 flats and over 600 people living there.....that is always going to be a hazzard in a tower block.

 

There is going to be a lot of work here to find out the cause, many questions need to be answered, not just about the building itself, but the work undertaken by the management  and the number of people living in these death traps.

 

 

Edited June 14, 2017 by freetoroam

[eugenonegin]

3 hours ago, hetrodoxly said:

It shows the mis information were receiving, on tv just they showed a video a poor woman made at 1:00 and loaded to social media, the police were shouting through loudhailer telling them to get out of the building, talking about social media i see Corbyns been lambasted for playing politics over the bodies of the dead and rightly so he thinks he's untouchable.

He's not making political capital, he is pointing out massive cutbacks in public spending may have had an impact on safety inspections,etc. He may very well be right.

Other points:the new cladding was insulation as well as making the block look more attractive- probably meeting some target on energy conservation. There have been fire problems with this cladding all around the world.

On TV and YouTube a bystander makes the point that Kensington is an up-market area that could do with less working class inhabitants, and a few more high class dwellings- he insinuates that arson may drive them out. I don't at all think it was arson, but it is an interesting point of view.

Edited June 14, 2017 by eugeneonegin

[freetoroam]

2 hours ago, Kismit said:

I am a private landlord, and my homes are marketed to families. The yards are fenced and safe, the chimneys anually swept(at our expense), electrical work is all current and certified, the homes are insulated and maintained. Smoke alarms and two fire exits provided from every room

In an ideal world this is how everyone in rented accomodation should live, but this is the other end of the scale compared to living in a sky riser owned by the council and run by a management organisation and (with respect)  some people you would not take on as a private landlord. 

I lived in a sky riser in London for 19 years....90% of the people were fine, but the other 10 made living there a nightmare for everyone else. 

Many of these blocks only have one fire exit....that is why i say they should never have been built in the first place for accomodations for families.

 

 

[docyabut2]

20 hours ago, Yamato said:

The 9/11 Conspiracy Theorists are going to crawl out of the cupboards once again citing the fact that Grenfell Tower didn't collapse from the fire as proof that 9/11 was an inside job.

As much as terrorists are killing in anyway in the UK, who`s to say this case wasn't an attack ? A bomber blowing up him self and the building  in a explosion. They still are not finding the evidence  of all the people that were living  there. Until they find out the real cause of this fire I`m holding out     

Edited June 15, 2017 by docyabut2

[ExpandMyMind]

53 minutes ago, docyabut2 said:

As much as terrorists are killing in anyway in the UK, who`s to say this case wasn't an attack ? A bomber blowing up him self and the building  in a explosion. They still are not finding the evidence  of all the people that were living  there. Until they find out the real cause of this fire I`m holding out     

More likely a blocked garbage chute caught on fire, from the way it spread so quickly to multiple floors. Contrary to popular belief, most of the damage from bombs comes from the blast's shockwave, not the fire. In fact, often there is very little fire in the aftermath.

This being said, any would-be terrorists now have a blueprint for an horrendous attack.

[The Silver Thong]

26 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

More likely a blocked garbage chute caught on fire, from the way it spread so quickly to multiple floors. Contrary to popular belief, most of the damage from bombs comes from the blast's shockwave, not the fire. In fact, often there is very little fire in the aftermath.

This being said, any would-be terrorists now have a blueprint for an horrendous attack.

Your right on that point, I hate to say this and I won`t as not to give any ideas to anybody.  That was a nasty fire, but how did it get so big so quick. I think I know but will not say. I feel bad for everyone in that building and good for everyone that got out.  I am sceptical on how it started though, we don`t know yet or may really never know.

[Camarel]

1 hour ago, The Silver Thong said:

I think I know but will not say. 

Unless you are an expert on fire and have info that the rest of us don't then i think you probably don't know.

[seeder]

another factor...perhaps....is the sheer heat we have had lately.... its been HOT!  and very dry....

[Space Commander Travis]

10 hours ago, hetrodoxly said:

It shows the mis information were receiving, on tv just they showed a video a poor woman made at 1:00 and loaded to social media, the police were shouting through loudhailer telling them to get out of the building, talking about social media i see Corbyns been lambasted for playing politics over the bodies of the dead and rightly so he thinks he's untouchable.

will you stop ranting about Corbyn.

[The Silver Thong]

10 minutes ago, Camarel said:

Unless you are an expert on fire and have info that the rest of us don't then i think you probably don't know.

I never said i know how it stared but I have a theory. Does it take an expert to be burned.

[Space Commander Travis]

1 hour ago, The Silver Thong said:

I think I know but will not say.

 

[The Silver Thong]

4 minutes ago, Manfred von Dreidecker said:

 

You amaze me with your wisdom

[Camarel]

11 minutes ago, The Silver Thong said:

I never said i know how it stared but I have a theory. Does it take an expert to be burned.

Maybe you misspoke then but as Manfred pointed out your comment made it sound like you think you know.

I think speculation is fine and some of it could be true, but all yesterday everyone i encountered seemed to be fire experts with more information than me. Telling me how this couldn't happen and how this would've been what actually happened. Was amazing.

[kartikg]

the residents are to be blamed partially they knew the building was fire hazard and after seeing that their complaints were not addressed by whomever responsible should have put some money on their own for alarms and sprinklers. I have seen this kind of mindset before. 

[Space Commander Travis]

5 minutes ago, The Silver Thong said:

You amaze me with your wisdom

So why don't you share some of yours then, if you think you know but will not say? Why not offer your advice to the Police and the Fire service? I'm sure they'd be most grateful.