US Rep Steve Scalise Shot

[+Hammerclaw]

Yes, when addressing Buncombe County instead of Congress, one should make it clear.

[.ZZ.]

29 minutes ago, Likely Guy said:

Someone here at UM called for the death of Donald Trump? Who did and when did they?

I only saw it once, from a younger member that is no longer with us. His post was deleted in minutes and then he sassed back to a mod and went bye-bye.

ETA: Earlier in the campaign it was.

Edited June 16, 2017 by .ZZ.

[Uncle Sam]

4 minutes ago, Likely Guy said:

Fair enough, but I'm still not going to apologize for me, or anyone else, being critical of Donald Trump.

Your just being critical, no calling for the death or attacks on republican supporters or republican congressmen or calling for the overthrowing the current elected government. So I see no reason to demand a apology from you, it is a debate after all and being critical of things is part of the debate.

Edited June 16, 2017 by Uncle Sam

[Uncle Sam]

2 minutes ago, .ZZ. said:

I only saw it once, from a younger member that is no longer with us. His post was deleted in minutes and then he sassed back to a mod and went bye-bye.

ETA: Earlier in the campaign it was.

I must have missed that... sometimes I take breaks from UM. Some members have a habit of not looking at evidence presented by other members or straight up saying that evidence is bull**** based on their own bias hatred towards where the evidence comes from aka youtube.

[+susieice]

Here's another link to the game. A few videos will run at the top in sequence.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2017/06/15/congressional-baseball-game-takes-greater-meaning-after-shooting/102890598/

[.ZZ.]

I was able to watch some of the game. I was surprised by some of the players, they looked pretty good. I guess the Dem pitcher is a ringer that had a great college career. I'll have to look up his name.

[+susieice]

One last link. This was Trump's address before the game. It was shown on screen at the game.

 

Edited June 16, 2017 by susieice

[Uncle Sam]

23 minutes ago, susieice said:

One last link. This was Trump's address before the game. It was shown on screen at the game.

 

The Rhetoric that almost killed a republican congressman has striked again.. 

Karen Handel Receives Threatening Letters With White Substance

And it is not a surprise it was another target of hatred towards a republican..

Karen Handel Biography On Wikipedia

It is going to take a lot to fix the torn rift of divide in United States.

Steve Scalise Shooting Political Intensity at Town Halls And Beyond Rising For Months

It doesn't help the left will not acknowledge the climate of hate that they created either and blame republicans for it

Left Won't Acknowledge Climate Violence they help create

Edited June 16, 2017 by Uncle Sam

[Tatetopa]

1 hour ago, Likely Guy said:

How in that post, did you quote Merc with my name attributed?

Sorry, I quoted Merc's comment when I found it in your post and for  some Unknown Mysteries reason, it attributed it to you.   I didn't go back and find the source. Sorry Likely Guy, sorry Merc10.

[Likely Guy]

9 minutes ago, Uncle Sam said:

The Rhetoric that almost killed a republican congressman has striked again.. 

Karen Handel Receives Threatening Letters With White Substance

And it is not a surprise it was another target of hatred towards a republican..

Karen Handel Biography On Wikipedia

It is going to take a lot to fix the torn rift of divide in United States.

Steve Scalise Shooting Political Intensity at Town Halls And Beyond Rising For Months

...and

https://www.rawstory.com/2017/06/you-guys-are-next-black-and-latino-democrats-receive-party-specific-threats-after-baseball-shooting/

So this just sadly proves that there are crazies on both sides of the political spectrum.

[Tatetopa]

3 minutes ago, Uncle Sam said:

It is going to take a lot to fix the torn rift of divide in United States.

Yes it is.  All of us will never agree on everything.  You won;t be just like me and I won't be just like you, but we should be able to get along or at least tolerate each other. I will confess that i have moved a little toward the right of my previous position in the course of participating in these forums.  I'm probably still left of you.I am trying to understand where the right is coming from and see the human side of the arguments.  Our fears and desires are different, maybe we should try to understand one another rather than dismiss everything with the attitude that it is just stupid snowflake whining.

I don't like or trust democrats or republicans very much.  Both seem like incomplete parodies of leadership.  President Trump has not really tried to mend that rift yet.  I hope he does.

[Uncle Sam]

5 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

Yes it is.  All of us will never agree on everything.  You won;t be just like me and I won't be just like you, but we should be able to get along or at least tolerate each other. I will confess that i have moved a little toward the right of my previous position in the course of participating in these forums.  I'm probably still left of you.I am trying to understand where the right is coming from and see the human side of the arguments.  Our fears and desires are different, maybe we should try to understand one another rather than dismiss everything with the attitude that it is just stupid snowflake whining.

I don't like or trust democrats or republicans very much.  Both seem like incomplete parodies of leadership.  President Trump has not really tried to mend that rift yet.  I hope he does.

Actually I am not right or left, I am middle grounds. I just hate how the left have created this climate of violence and then they deny having any part in it, while denying any apology to the right and the condemnation of the attacks. That is what is ruffling my feathers to see both sides attacking each other. Don't worry, I have been critical of both left and right, but right now the left are the main culprit of today's issues that is astonishing. I'm just focusing on that as of the moment... I do have views from both sides of the isle as well, what I think is good for United States as a whole. Too many people on these threads try to label me as republican or democrat, while I am neither, I am more of my own person and sometimes I will be against you on topics or be with you on others.

Edited June 16, 2017 by Uncle Sam

[Tatetopa]

Sorry again Merc14.  I attributed to Merc10, your great grandfather..   I could claim a typo, but I was just being sloppy.

[Tatetopa]

There are crazies everywhere. Now it may be a difficult position, but I wonder if crazies should have second amendment rights.  Separate question, should terrorists be allowed to buy firearms in the US if they are US citizens?  

[Uncle Sam]

16 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

There are crazies everywhere. Now it may be a difficult position, but I wonder if crazies should have second amendment rights.  Separate question, should terrorists be allowed to buy firearms in the US if they are US citizens?  

The issue with that, 2nd Amendment, is a slippery slop. What do you constitute as crazy? It would be very easy for a government official to label you as crazy and take away your rights if we give them that power. So I don't think we should go down that path... at all. On the other hand, we can do more by addressing the issue of mental illness and what we can do for them in terms of care. As for Terrorists, that is murky as well, people have a tendency to not question things the government or their political party says. I am also very apprehensive of that as well, because it can be abused by labeling anyone a terrorists, taking away their right to own a gun. Obama sicked IRS on republican candidates and had them wiretapped, it was easy and there was no accountability for doing this either, he practically got away with murder.

Oh on the subject of the Rhetoric, Nancy Pelosi showed no tack either, don't want to apologize either and instead tried to blame the republicans for this.

Pelosi GOP Sanctimonious To Blame Left For Inciting Violence

Let's try to stay on topic. I done enough defending the 2nd Amendment to last a life-time and yes I did manage to change a lot of people's minds on that, I just hope we can stop taking about taking away amendments or limiting it and start talking about real issues with real solutions.

Note: I tend to have a problem of editing my post to add my opinions or facts that I missed. As of this moment, this post is done and I won't be editing anymore.

Edited June 16, 2017 by Uncle Sam

[Uncle Sam]

Oh and Loretta Lynch has got her wish for blood... all there is left is death and that will be achieved if Scalise dies.

Loretta Lynch Need More Marching, Blood, and Death on Streets

Edited June 16, 2017 by Uncle Sam

[Tacoavenger17]

Used to be if you had a problem with someone at most you'd fistfight and everyone would live,  why is that not the furthest we go anymore...

[Uncle Sam]

59 minutes ago, Tacoavenger17 said:

Used to be if you had a problem with someone at most you'd fistfight and everyone would live,  why is that not the furthest we go anymore...

It is the mentality of the left these days. If they can't win a argument, they either shut you down by character assassination or violence. Reason I left the liberal left, then join the democrats. Democrats ended up being just as bad so I joined the republican party. And then I come to find out that the republicans are overall religious and seems to not understand the separation of church and state located in the 1st amendment, that lead me to leaving their group as well because I don't want theocracy. Lately it has been a choice between Totalitarian (Liberal,) Socialism (Democrats) Commonwealth (Republicans,) or Theocracy (Alt-Right) with the middle seeming to be where those who respect the constitution is. Now I am floating in the middle as a constitutionalist/Republic. There is a reason why the middle is the best place for United States, because it represents exactly the republic which United States was founded on with a constitution to keep the government in check.

Here are all the type of governments out there...

Quote

 

Absolute monarchy - a form of government where the monarch rules unhindered, i.e., without any laws, constitution or legally organized opposition.

Anarchy - a condition of lawlessness or political disorder brought about by the absence of governmental authority.

Authoritarian - a form of government in which state authority is imposed onto many aspects of citizens' lives.

Commonwealth - a nation, state or other political entity founded on law and united by a compact of the people for the common good.

Communist - a system of government in which the state plans and controls the economy and a single -- often authoritarian -- party holds power; state controls are imposed with the elimination of private ownership of property or capital while claiming to make progress toward a higher social order in which all goods are equally shared by the people (i.e., a classless society).

Confederacy (Confederation) - a union by compact or treaty between states, provinces or territories that creates a central government with limited powers; the constituent entities retain supreme authority over all matters except those delegated to the central government.

Constitutional - a government by or operating under an authoritative document (constitution) that sets forth the system of fundamental laws and principles that determines the nature, functions and limits of that government.

Constitutional democracy - a form of government in which the sovereign power of the people is spelled out in a governing constitution.

Constitutional monarchy - a system of government in which a monarch is guided by a constitution whereby his/her rights, duties, and responsibilities are spelled out in written law or by custom.

Democracy - a form of government in which the supreme power is retained by the people, but which is usually exercised indirectly through a system of representation and delegated authority periodically renewed.

Democratic republic - a state in which the supreme power rests in the body of citizens entitled to vote for officers and representatives responsible to them.

Dictatorship - a form of government in which a ruler or small clique wield absolute power (not restricted by a constitution or laws).

Ecclesiastical - a government administrated by a church.

Emirate - similar to a monarchy or sultanate, a government in which the supreme power is in the hands of an emir (the ruler of a Muslim state); the emir may be an absolute overlord or a sovereign with constitutionally limited authority.

Federal (Federation) - a form of government in which sovereign power is formally divided -- usually by means of a constitution -- between a central authority and a number of constituent regions (states, colonies or provinces) so that each region retains some management of its internal affairs; differs from a confederacy in that the central government exerts influence directly upon both individuals as well as upon the regional units.

Federal republic - a state in which the powers of the central government are restricted and in which the component parts (states, colonies, or provinces) retain a degree of self-government; ultimate sovereign power rests with the voters who chose their governmental representatives.

Islamic republic - a particular form of government adopted by some Muslim states; although such a state is, in theory, a theocracy, it remains a republic, but its laws are required to be compatible with the laws of Islam.

Maoism - the theory and practice of Marxism-Leninism developed in China by Mao Zedong (Mao Tse-tung), which states that a continuous revolution is necessary if the leaders of a communist state are to keep in touch with the people.

Marxism - the political, economic and social principles espoused by 19th century economist Karl Marx; he viewed the struggle of workers as a progression of historical forces that would proceed from a class struggle of the proletariat (workers) exploited by capitalists (business owners), to a socialist "dictatorship of the proletariat," to, finally, a classless society -- Communism.

Marxism-Leninism - an expanded form of communism developed by Vladimir Lenin from doctrines of Karl Marx; Lenin saw imperialism as the final stage of capitalism and shifted the focus of workers' struggle from developed to underdeveloped countries.

Monarchy - a government in which the supreme power is lodged in the hands of a monarch who reigns over a state or territory, usually for life and by hereditary right; the monarch may be either a sole absolute ruler or a sovereign - such as a king, queen or prince - with constitutionally limited authority.

Oligarchy - a government in which control is exercised by a small group of individuals whose authority generally is based on wealth or power.

Parliamentary democracy - a political system in which the legislature (parliament) selects the government - a prime minister, premier or chancellor along with the cabinet ministers - according to party strength as expressed in elections; by this system, the government acquires a dual responsibility: to the people as well as to the parliament.

Parliamentary government (Cabinet-Parliamentary government) - a government in which members of an executive branch (the cabinet and its leader - a prime minister, premier or chancellor) are nominated to their positions by a legislature or parliament, and are directly responsible to it; this type of government can be dissolved at will by the parliament (legislature) by means of a no-confidence vote or the leader of the cabinet may dissolve the parliament if it can no longer function.

Parliamentary monarchy - a state headed by a monarch who is not actively involved in policy formation or implementation (i.e., the exercise of sovereign powers by a monarch in a ceremonial capacity); true governmental leadership is carried out by a cabinet and its head - a prime minister, premier or chancellor - who are drawn from a legislature (parliament).

Presidential - a system of government where the executive branch exists separately from a legislature (to which it is generally not accountable).

Republic - a representative democracy in which the people's elected deputies (representatives), not the people themselves, vote on legislation.

Socialism - a government in which the means of planning, producing and distributing goods is controlled by a central government that theoretically seeks a more just and equitable distribution of property and labor; in actuality, most socialist governments have ended up being no more than dictatorships over workers by a ruling elite.

Sultanate - similar to a monarchy, a government in which the supreme power is in the hands of a sultan (the head of a Muslim state); the sultan may be an absolute ruler or a sovereign with constitutionally limited authority.

Theocracy - a form of government in which a Deity is recognized as the supreme civil ruler, the Deity's laws are interpreted by ecclesiastical authorities (bishops, mullahs, etc.); a government subject to religious authority.

Totalitarian - a government that seeks to subordinate the individual to the state by controlling not only all political and economic matters, but also the attitudes, values and beliefs of its population.

 

By look at this chart. It comes to my attention that United States is more along the lines as a Federal Republic, Democratic Republic, Commonwealth, and Constitutional Democracy today with a hint of socialism involved.

Edited June 16, 2017 by Uncle Sam

[Myles]

5 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

 

I don't like or trust democrats or republicans very much.  Both seem like incomplete parodies of leadership.  President Trump has not really tried to mend that rift yet.  I hope he does.

Same here.   They are all scoundrels.    So far, I'm a little disappointed in Trump.   I had hoped that both Republican and Democrat politicians would continue to dislike him and bridge some sort of common ground instead of the normal partisanship.  Trump is the closest thing we've had to a third party for a long time.   

[F3SS]

5 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

Separate question, should terrorists be allowed to buy firearms in the US if they are US citizens?  

Uhh, not if they've already earned the title "terrorist". What kind of question is that?

[skliss]

I was disgusted to hear that the left is trending #karma.

Very impressed with the two capital police officers! Both wounded and kept on fighting. One eyewitness said that after the woman officer was hit she dragged herself up, balanced by leaning on their SUV and kept returning fire. Dedicated and brave!

[Gary Meadows]

2 minutes ago, skliss said:

I was disgusted to hear that the left is trending #karma.

There is unfortunately no shortage of twisted awful people in the world.

 

[Lilly]

What I found very disturbing (and kind of mentally unhinged) is how Nancy Pelosi managed to somehow blame Fox News for the shooting: https://www.theblaze.com/news/2017/06/15/pelosi-falls-back-into-partisan-rhetoric-blames-fox-news-for-gop-baseball-shooting/

Something tells me that guys like the shooter (who supported Bernie and detested Trump) don't watch very much Fox News!

When I see totally illogical, unsupported, silly-azz notions being tossed out like chum onto the political waters...I know nothing will change as a result of this horrible incident.

Also, I would humbly suggest that everyone 'flip the script' here for a moment. Suppose that this shooting involved the Democrat's baseball team. Suppose the D minority whip had been seriously wounded and the shooter was some far right wing fringe lunatic. What do you think would be happening right now? Here's my personal guess: Protests turning to riots in the streets would be taking place in some locations, Trump would be blamed (100%), a special counsel would be called for because the shooting was obviously a conspiratorial assassination attempt, allegations that perhaps the shooter was actually a secret Russian operative might even crop up.

I'm not kidding either, were the shoe on the other foot and the Democrats targeted I sincerely believe that things like this would be taking place.

[Farmer77]

Just now, Lilly said:

What I found very disturbing (and kind of mentally unhinged) is how Nancy Pelosi managed to somehow blame Fox News for the shooting: https://www.theblaze.com/news/2017/06/15/pelosi-falls-back-into-partisan-rhetoric-blames-fox-news-for-gop-baseball-shooting/

Something tells me that guys like the shooter (who supported Bernie and detested Trump) don't watch very much Fox News!

When I see totally illogical, unsupported, silly-azz notions being tossed out like chum onto the political waters...I know nothing will change as a result of this horrible incident.

Also, I would humbly suggest that everyone 'flip the script' here for a moment. Suppose that this shooting involved the Democrat's baseball team. Suppose the D minority whip had been seriously wounded and the shooter was some far right wing fringe lunatic. What do you think would be happening right now? Here's my personal guess: Protests turning to riots in the streets would be taking place in some locations, Trump would be blamed (100%), a special counsel would be called for because the shooting was obviously a conspiratorial assassination attempt, allegations that perhaps the shooter was actually a secret Russian operative might even crop up.

I'm not kidding either, were the shoe on the other foot and the Democrats targeted I sincerely believe that things like this would be taking place.

I just saw Pelosi and Ryan together on CNN talking about unity and disagreeing without the vitriol. They both looked very uncomfortable sitting that close to each other. 

I have to ask though how is what she did any different than the folks who were on here spreading the Alex Jones headline "CNN promotes violence against dems" ? 

[Lilly]

9 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

I just saw Pelosi and Ryan together on CNN talking about unity and disagreeing without the vitriol. They both looked very uncomfortable sitting that close to each other. 

I have to ask though how is what she did any different than the folks who were on here spreading the Alex Jones headline "CNN promotes violence against dems" ? 

Well, that's a bunch of nonsense (from Ryan) as well. But, keep in mind Ms Pelosi is in a position of much, much higher regard than someone like Alex Jones.

However, I still think (considering what we saw after the election) that the back lash would be far worse had the shoe been on the other foot.