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Farmer77

Any Vape Pen recommendations

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Farmer77

So after 20 some years of using chewing tobacco off and on im quitting on Wednesday. I will be utilizing a vape pen to do so because im hooked on nicotine like a damn crack fiend. In addition to using it for tobacco cessation I want one which will be powerful enough for medicinal purposes as well. 

Knowing nothing about these things I thought I'd ask for recommendations or even recommendations on what NOT to get. 

Anyone out there have any suggestions? 

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Hammerclaw
9 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

So after 20 some years of using chewing tobacco off and on im quitting on Wednesday. I will be utilizing a vape pen to do so because im hooked on nicotine like a damn crack fiend. In addition to using it for tobacco cessation I want one which will be powerful enough for medicinal purposes as well. 

Knowing nothing about these things I thought I'd ask for recommendations or even recommendations on what NOT to get. 

Anyone out there have any suggestions? 

Never heard of a vape pen being used or prescribed for medication. For that you should use a nebulizer. The safety risks for using a vape pen are comparable to that of smokeless tobacco.

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Farmer77
Just now, Hammerclaw said:

Never heard of a vape pen being used or prescribed for medication. For that you should use a nebulizer. The safety risks for using a vape pen are comparable to that of smokeless tobacco.

I hadnt heard that about the safety risks. At this point my mouth is tired of having a chew in it constantly and I always promised myself if I ever had any problems I would quit before it became bad and im reaching that point. 

As for the medication I use medicinal marijuana for my MS so I want one powerful enough to efficiently burn wax and liquid marijuana extracts. 

Thanks for the info. 

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moonman
18 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

Never heard of a vape pen being used or prescribed for medication. For that you should use a nebulizer. The safety risks for using a vape pen are comparable to that of smokeless tobacco.

That's a load of BS. Anti-smoking and anti-tobacco groups want you to believe that, but actual, non-biased studies show no such risk. Vaping has about as much risk as breathing average city air.

I've been vaping for around 5 years now after quitting a 20 year smoking habit. Best thing I ever did. I've switched vaping devices more times than I can count, all I can tell you is I quickly learned pens are garbage for anyone that smokes more than a couple cigs a day. Go big battery and big juice reserves. You should be able to get different atomizers for different uses, you can't use the same "burner" for different substances. You'll need to hit up an e-cig forum for more info.

Edited by moonman
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Hammerclaw
46 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

I hadnt heard that about the safety risks. At this point my mouth is tired of having a chew in it constantly and I always promised myself if I ever had any problems I would quit before it became bad and im reaching that point. 

As for the medication I use medicinal marijuana for my MS so I want one powerful enough to efficiently burn wax and liquid marijuana extracts. 

Thanks for the info. 

An old fashion vaporizer might work for that--it's sort of like a high-tech bong. I quit cigarettes 14 years ago and smoke a pipe on occasion now. You don't inhale and it doesn't become a nervous habit. I found the habituation to cigarette use, not the tobacco, was the hook for me. So, I found a new habit--video games!     https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporizer_(inhalation_device)                          

Edited by Hammerclaw
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Hammerclaw
23 minutes ago, moonman said:

That's a load of BS. Anti-smoking and anti-tobacco groups want you to believe that, but actual, non-biased studies show no such risk.

I've been vaping for around 5 years now after quitting a 20 year smoking habit. Best thing I ever did. I've switched vaping devices more times than I can count, all I can tell you is I quickly learned pens are garbage for anyone that smoked more than a couple cigs a day.

There are no peer reviewed studies or medical consensus of the dangers or lack there of, of E cigarette use, yet. So, I'd take everything you read, for and against, with a grain of salt. I tried them and found the chemicals in the fluid irritated my lungs.

Edited by Hammerclaw

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keithisco

I have successfully switched from 20-a-day to using a Vype pen. No messy filling up with liquids because it uses cartridges and it is also convenient enough to carry in a pocket. It doesn't billow huge clouds of steam either (that type are just anti-social IMO). I use the "Dark Cherry" refills which worked for me from day 1, a pack of 3 cartridges costs (in the UK) 3.99, and easily lasts me 10 days.

I chose the Vype because it meets all regulatory standards and the liquid cartridges are made in the UK. I have heard some horrific tales about Chinese manufactured e-pens and liquids.

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Claire.

Hey, I've got an idea. Why not have a chat with your doctor about quitting altogether? There are also cessation clinics that can help.

Vaping is dangerous. I don't care what anyone says. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that inhaling chemicals is not good for your lungs and other organs. But if you're determined to commit a slow suicide vape, stay away from the Chinese-manufactured ones, as Keith suggests. They are loaded with extremely dangerous chemicals.

Okay, I'm leaving now.

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Farmer77
Just now, Claire. said:

Hey, I've got an idea. Why not have a chat with your doctor about quitting altogether? There are also cessation clinics that can help.

Vaping is dangerous. I don't care what anyone says. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that inhaling chemicals is not good for your lungs and other organs. But if you're determined to commit a slow suicide vape, stay away from the Chinese-manufactured ones, as Keith suggests. They are loaded with extremely dangerous chemicals.

Okay, I'm leaving now.

Haha! I would LOVE to be able to just up and quit, unfortunately I cannot remain functional throughout that process. I actually have contacted a cessation clinic and am planning on gradually stepping down from the vape to lozenges (but I want my mouth to have the chance to heal up first) and then eventually back off the lozenges to nothing. 

Ironically this is the first time in a very long time that ive not been OK with committing a slow suicide hence my desire to quit the chew. 

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Mark One

Ive been vaping for quite some time now with one of these Joyetech Pro`s

2_137_1.jpg

It produces a good puff of smoke, top filling, air control and it comes with two different coils  If you shop around you can get one of these at a bargain price.

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moonman
24 minutes ago, Claire. said:

Hey, I've got an idea. Why not have a chat with your doctor about quitting altogether? There are also cessation clinics that can help.

Vaping is dangerous. I don't care what anyone says. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that inhaling chemicals is not good for your lungs and other organs. But if you're determined to commit a slow suicide vape, stay away from the Chinese-manufactured ones, as Keith suggests. They are loaded with extremely dangerous chemicals.

Okay, I'm leaving now.

Bye.

There is SO much BS press on the "dangers" of vaping, it's infuriating. I make my own juice, and it has the basic three ingredients - nicotine (which is about as harmful as caffeine depending on who you ask), VG (basically sugar), and PG (an ingredient found in inhalers, hospital air purifiers, shampoo, almost every product out there). I don't bother with flavors anymore, but most are equally benign as the three main components regardless of what overblown, out of context studies on Chinese liquids say. Some are questionable, but I don't use any so I don't concern myself.

Anyone who says vaping those three things is anywhere near as dangerous as smoking tobacco is delusional. Fun fact, did you know your body can turn nicotine into niacin, an essential B vitamin?

Edited by moonman
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Claire.
1 minute ago, Farmer77 said:

Haha! I would LOVE to be able to just up and quit, unfortunately I cannot remain functional throughout that process. I actually have contacted a cessation clinic and am planning on gradually stepping down from the vape to lozenges (but I want my mouth to have the chance to heal up first) and then eventually back off the lozenges to nothing. 

Ironically this is the first time in a very long time that ive not been OK with committing a slow suicide hence my desire to quit the chew. 

At least the intent is there. That is the best first step you can take.

I've never smoked, so I can't relate, but do understand how difficult quitting is and why. It's not just the addiction you have to deal with, but also the habitual aspects of it as well. As for vaping, make sure you research the liquids and whatever chemicals they contain. If there isn't a detailed list of them, do not make the purchase. And never ever recharge the e-cig with a charger other than the one that is provided with it.

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Farmer77
Just now, Big Mirk said:

Ive been vaping for quite some time now with one of these Joyetech Pro`s

2_137_1.jpg

It produces a good puff of smoke, top filling, air control and it comes with two different coils  If you shop around you can get one of these at a bargain price.

Thank you for the recommendation! 

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Claire.
4 minutes ago, moonman said:

Bye.

There is SO much BS press on the "dangers" of vaping, it's infuriating. I make my own juice , and it has three ingredients - nicotine (which is about as harmful as caffeine), VG (basically sugar), and PG (an ingredient found in inhalers, hospital air purifiers, shampoo, almost every product out there).

Anyone who says vaping those three things is anywhere near as dangerous as smoking tobacco is delusional.

I would argue that there is just as much, if not, more, BS on the 'safety' of vaping.

  1. Nicotine is highly addictive. It has also been linked to an impaired immune system, among other things. Is it safe? No it is not.
  2. Although propylene glycol (PG) is generally recognized as 'safe' when ingested, there is little information on what happens when it hits the air. In other words, we do not know whether or not it can damage the lungs when inhaled. We are still a long way from being able to state with any certainty that inhaling it is safe. PG, by the way, is rarely if ever used in asthma inhalers, although it is used with some nebulizers to deliver the albuterol. The dose, however, is extremely low — a lot lower than the PG concentration in e-liquids.
  3. As for vegetable glycerin (VG), I haven't been able to find much information as to whether it is safe to inhale, or if diabetics have anything to be concerned about.

Beyond these three main ingredients, we also need to be concerned by any by-products from heating such solutions, as various studies suggest vapors can contain several cancer-causing substances, as well particles of various heavy metals, which, in large enough concentrations, can seriously damage the lungs.

So, is vaping safer than smoking cigarettes. Perhaps. But that does not mean vaping is in any way safe.

Vaping is not safe, nor should it be promoted as such.

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moonman
2 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

There are no peer reviewed studies or medical consensus of the dangers or lack there of, of E cigarette use, yet. So, I'd take everything you read, for and against, with a grain of salt. I tried them and found the chemicals in the fluid irritated my lungs.

If you really think there are no valid studies, then how can you say vaping has risks equivalent to chewing tobacco?

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Hammerclaw
7 minutes ago, moonman said:

If you really think there are no valid studies, then how can you say vaping has risks equivalent to chewing tobacco?

I read about it on the internet, same as you. However, I took it to mean it was no more harmful than Copenhagen. However, my own experience with it shows may not be for everyone. There's no manufacturing standards for the fluid and  I never knew for sure what  I was inhaling. Some of it was pretty rank and left a foul aftertaste.

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moonman
57 minutes ago, Claire. said:

I would argue that there is just as much, if not, more, BS on the 'safety' of vaping.

  1. Nicotine is highly addictive. It has also been linked to an impaired immune system, among other things. Is it safe? No it is not.
  2. Although propylene glycol (PG) is generally recognized as 'safe' when ingested, there is little information on what happens when it hits the air. In other words, we do not know whether or not it can damage the lungs when inhaled. We are still a long way from being able to state with any certainty that inhaling it is safe. PG, by the way, is rarely if ever used in asthma inhalers, although it is used with some nebulizers to deliver the albuterol. The dose, however, is extremely low — a lot lower than the PG concentration in e-liquids.
  3. As for vegetable glycerin (VG), I haven't been able to find much information as to whether it is safe to inhale, or if diabetics have anything to be concerned about.

Beyond these three main ingredients, we also need to be concerned by any by-products from heating such solutions, as various studies suggest vapors can contain several cancer-causing substances, as well particles of various heavy metals, which, in large enough concentrations, can seriously damage the lungs.

So, is vaping safer than smoking cigarettes. Perhaps. But that does not mean vaping is in any way safe.

Vaping is not safe, nor should it be promoted as such.

Thats a lot of misinformation, probably pulled directly from anti-vape sites full of propaganda.

1. Nicotine is addictive, but it has NOT been proven to be harmful beyond that.

2. PV is used in air purifiers. There have also been studies on animals where they were exposed to it in aerosol form for months with no ill effect. 

3. Contaminats found (such as heavy metals) are in such low concentrations as to be effectively non-existent. The old studies where they burned the atomizers and juice far beyond what a user would do are completely bogus and cannot be taken seriously, yet anti-vapers keep citing them like they are the final word. Nobody vapes like that, it's like smoking the filter.

4. For some reason you never hear about a recent study on lung tissue that was exposed to tobacco smoke and vapor. The tobacco exposed tissue died in hours, and the vapor exposed tissue? It didn't die, in fact it showed no ill effects at all. No one talks about that because it doesn't fit the fear mongering anti-vape propoganda so popular in the news.

5. My own personal experience - when I smoked I felt awful and gross all the time, and my lungs felt like they were filled with cotton with a hacking cough. I would get colds every other week. Since I switched 5 years ago, I've never felt better. I breath clearly, and I can count the number of times I've been sick on one hand (perhaps due to the antibacterial PV). No coughing at all. Vaping might actually prevent illness according to some studies.

There's no question in my mind that it's far, far safer than smoking. Is it good for you? Probably not, but nothing is. Breathing city air has the same amount of pollutants, studies show. Better quit breathing altogether.

 

 

Edited by moonman
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Hammerclaw
2 minutes ago, moonman said:

Thats a lot of misinformation, probably pulled directly from anti-vape sites full of propaganda.

1. Nicotine is addictive, but it has NOT been proven to be harmful beyond that.

2. PV is used in air purifiers. There have also been studies on primates where they were exposed to it in aerosol form for months with no ill effect. 

3. Contaminats found (such as heavy metals) are in such low concentrations as to be effectively non-existent. The old studies where they burned the atomizers and juice far beyond what a user would do are completely bogus.

As I said, there's no peer review studies and no medical consensus--but don't get me wrong. I'm not anti-vaping or even anti-tobacco. I'm enjoying a bowl of Prince Albert in my well-broken in Dr. Grabow as I type.

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Hammerclaw

It would be helpful for Farmer if someone would recommend a decent brand of fluid. I tried several and I'd swear some of it was nothing more than stump water.

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moonman

Making it yourself is easy and is about 1/8th the cost of premade. No worries about what's in it, either. The only issue is finding a flavoring/recipe you like. I like plain, it's slightly sweet and has no strong odor. There's just a hint of baking smell.

I've tried lots and I can't recommend anything else. I didn't like most of the premade.

Edited by moonman

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Claire.
2 minutes ago, moonman said:

Thats a lot of misinformation, probably pulled directly from anti-vape sites full of propaganda.

1. Nicotine is addictive, but it has NOT been proven to be harmful beyond that.

2. PV is used in air purifiers. There have also been studies on primates where they were exposed to it in aerosol form for months with no ill effect. 

3. Contaminats found (such as heavy metals) are in such low concentrations as to be effectively non-existent. The old studies where they burned the atomizers and juice far beyond what a user would do are completely bogus.

Misinformation? Not even close.

Nicotine is a habit forming drug that has the potential to be extremely harmful. It even has the potential to kill. It is highly irresponsible to promote it as being safe. As for PG, there are no definitive studies on how it affects the lungs when inhaled. The ASTDR states they have little information about what happens to propylene glycol in the air. The two studies it has referenced in the past were small studies conducted with lab animals, not people. So a few gorillas or whatever were sprayed. That in no way tells us everything we need to know.

Farmer, sorry for starting a debate and taking your thread off course. You're a big boy capable of making your own decisions. :)

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moonman

Most things can kill you if you take too much, that's not really an argument. Caffine will kill you if you take too much, but we don't call it "unsafe" - even though it's also a habit forming drug.

As for PG, more studies are needed, but going around claiming it's harmful is just as irresponsible as saying it isn't. We don't know - even though studies and usages are pointing towards the non-harmful end of the spectrum.

Let's not overlook the lack of deaths from vaping. There hasn't been one documented yet. You can't say that about tobacco.

Edited by moonman

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Claire.
1 hour ago, moonman said:

Most things can kill you if you take too much, that's not really an argument. Caffine will kill you if you take too much, but we don't call it "unsafe" - even though it's also a habit forming drug.

As for PG, more studies are needed, but going around claiming it's harmful is just as irresponsible as saying it isn't. We don't know - even though studies and usages are pointing towards the non-harmful end of the spectrum.

Let's not overlook the lack of deaths from vaping. There hasn't been one documented yet. You can't say that about tobacco.

Correction. What's not an argument is that most things can kill you if you take too much. Nicotine is a toxic, addictive substance. It's not safe in any amount. The addictive factor alone is cause for concern. As for saying PG isn't harmful, what I stated was that there was not sufficient information available to make that determination, so until then, no one should promote it as being harmless. As for the lack of deaths related to vaping (aside from the number of burn victims, and children dying from ingesting liquid nicotine), that isn't a viable argument as vaping is still relatively new and there are no long-term studies from which to make such an assessment.

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moonman

I hope you don't eat vegetables, you're committing slow suicide if so with that horrible "not safe in any amount" chemical.

Hate it all you want, it isn't going away, and I'm confident studies will continue to show it is a far safer alternative to smoking, like most serious studies already have.

Until then, there's no point in taking any hate speech about it seriously. I personally don't need any study to tell me it's far better for me than smoking, if not beneficial, with the PG keeping me from getting sick and the nicotine keeping me from developing Parkinson's and keeping me topped off on B3 and staving off any niacin deficiency.

 

Edited by moonman

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Claire.

I'm not sure where you're getting your information from but your arguments about the overall 'safety' of vaping don't wash as the vast majority of your statements are either misleading or false.

Whilst you may use just three 'ingredients' (nicotine, VG and PG), there are actually more. Many more. Some of the pro-vaping propaganda out there will list flavorings as a fourth ingredient, but the fact of the matter is that flavorings are ethyl maltol, vanillin, ethyl vanillin, benzaldehyde, ethyl butyrate, menthol and ethyl acetat. That's not a single ingredient. Furthermore, there are legitimate concerns about the presence of various other chemicals. These may be low level, but they are still present.

Your statement about many of the ingredients being safe, whilst technically true, is also misleading. As I mentioned earlier, whilst it may be safe to ingest them, it may not necessarily be safe to inhale them. Diacetyl is a prime example of this. Full studies on the effects of inhaling PG have not been done, so we do not as yet know. However, PG is not used in asthma inhalers or nebulizers (although PG might be used as a cosolvent in the latter). So that statement is absolutely false. If you can prove me wrong, then by all means do so.

As for your statement that no one has died from vaping, I repeat, it will take another 20 or 30 years before that can be determined.

But you are right about one thing. Vaping won't go away soon, and we have nicotine to thank for it.

If you or any other member is interested, one of my sources was ecigarette. The full article is well worth the read. The site itself provides reviews of various e-cigs, so some of you might also find it helpful in that regard. I have additional sources if anyone wants them.

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