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Farmer77

Any Vape Pen recommendations

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moonman

I call BS on your info as well, you read a website and cherry picked it. Bravo. Try reading more than one thing, and quit choosing only what you like.

You have a serious problem with reading comprehension. Like I said, I make my own juice, and there are three ingredients, not any of that crap you listed. I buy lab grade VG, PG, and nicotine. That's it. That's what ejuice consists of at it's base. Whatever companies add to their own mix beyond that isn't my concern, I don't recommend any of them- but most companies have moved on from ingredients that are controvesial. Diacytl is only found in butter flavors, and the levels you need of it to develop popcorn lung are WAY too low. "It causes popcorn lung" is one of those old anti standby arguments that just isn't true. I could sit here and shoot holes in most of your points as it all seems to come from outdated, biased research, but I don't have all day.

And how are those veggies for you? Getting sick from them yet? They have nicotine at low levels, you know, and according to you nicotine at any level is unsafe.

As you are fully into anti propaganda, there's no point in responding to you anymore. You are brainlocked into hating it. For everyone else, if you want to learn about vaping, read up on ALL the info you can find, not just anti BS - and if someone says "they have some sources for you to read", you can bet it's probably just a bunch of anti propaganda. Keep an open mind and read everything you can find, not just what is handed to you.

 

Edited by moonman
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rashore

Ok folks.. the debating is getting pretty off topic from Farmers initial post. Good information to be sure, but really getting off topic. Let's stop with it now please.

And to topic again, I'm going to throw a few bits in.

Not everyone realizes this, but several states have laws about vaping now, and some of them are starting to have laws about juices too- if you have to buy premade, what manufactures can have in their juice, and so on. Not every state is ok with folks buying their own separate components and mixing their own. Farmer, if you can, hit a local vape shop or two and ask about it. You can probably google up the info too, but still ask about it at the vape shop. And also since you are legal MM, I assume there are dispensaries in the area- hit them too and ask about it. There's probably also state specific laws about MM too for you that you should be aware of.

Whatever you choose for your vape, have a backup. As in if it's a straight rechargeable, have two, or if it takes batteries have more than one battery. Having a dead vape is like being out of smokes when you want your nicotine.

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CrimsonKing
15 hours ago, rashore said:

Ok folks.. the debating is getting pretty off topic from Farmers initial post. Good information to be sure, but really getting off topic. Let's stop with it now please.

And to topic again, I'm going to throw a few bits in.

Not everyone realizes this, but several states have laws about vaping now, and some of them are starting to have laws about juices too- if you have to buy premade, what manufactures can have in their juice, and so on. Not every state is ok with folks buying their own separate components and mixing their own. Farmer, if you can, hit a local vape shop or two and ask about it. You can probably google up the info too, but still ask about it at the vape shop. And also since you are legal MM, I assume there are dispensaries in the area- hit them too and ask about it. There's probably also state specific laws about MM too for you that you should be aware of.

Whatever you choose for your vape, have a backup. As in if it's a straight rechargeable, have two, or if it takes batteries have more than one battery. Having a dead vape is like being out of smokes when you want your nicotine.

@Farmer77

This bro...if this is the route YOU choose...

My advice...don't know how much "chew" you go through a day my friend,but screw creating a new habit and just go with leveled nicotin patches!

You can't get a "habit" from putting a patch on your arm!...other than the nicotine which you already put in through other means...don't create a calming behaviorial habit!

Hell man your in the gym,your eating right,you are legally mm certified...

If s*** gets stressful and you have that patch on,no joke put your hand over it for a few second...heat warms the skin/patch releasing more nicotine than the time release does under normal measures!

I'm torn between the "argument"...

Yep to early to say on one side,but in no way can be argued that it's worse than insane additives in cigarettes!

Best of luck my friend :tu:

Edited by CrimsonKing
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Farmer77

I wanna thank everyone for their input , advice and especially their well wishes

Today it has been 8 days since my last chew. Im sucking on the vape like its a pacifier at the moment but am already growing weary of it so it wont be long before I ween myself off of it as well. 

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MissMelsWell
On 6/26/2017 at 1:17 PM, Claire. said:

Hey, I've got an idea. Why not have a chat with your doctor about quitting altogether? There are also cessation clinics that can help.

Vaping is dangerous. I don't care what anyone says. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that inhaling chemicals is not good for your lungs and other organs. But if you're determined to commit a slow suicide vape, stay away from the Chinese-manufactured ones, as Keith suggests. They are loaded with extremely dangerous chemicals.

Okay, I'm leaving now.

I've been using a vape for 7 years. It's saved my life so in my humble opinion it's the opposite of dangerous, it's quite literally a life saver. I'd "chatted" with my doctors for years about quitting with NO success. (nothing that even looked remotely close to success) An ecig is what did the trick. My doctors can see the POSITIVE differences over the last 7 years. A 100% improvement in my lung function ( i can RUN for the first time since I was a teenager), high blood pressure is now normal, dental health improvements, circulation improvements. In-so-far, after 7 years, there aren't any negatives the doctors can find only positives. I've also been in a long term study for the last 6 years that's being done by Penn State which is tracking the efficacy and over-all health of ecig users. You're going to start seeing some long range studies appear soon. I'm not sure when they plan to wrap up the Penn State study I'm in, I just keep sending them the documentation they need and keep responding to their study questions every six months. haha. 

As far as Diacetyl goes... no company in the US adds it to their liquids and as far as I know, none in China have for a VERY long time either. People and liquid manufacturers have known Diacety is off limits in these products... Back when I started buying liquids, ALL the manufacturers were advertising Diacetyl free. 7 years ago was the infancy of the ecig industry. 

It also bears mentioning that I haven't used nicotine in my ecig for over 5 years. I accidentally ordered a 0mg nicotine liquid and used it for a MONTH before I realized it had no nicotine. I only noticed because I had my reading glasses on while filling my tank and noticed the nic content, or lack there of, on the lable. LOL

As to the original post... I use a nautilus tank with BVC coils and an eLeaf battery. It's a simple no fuss no muss rig. 

Edited by MissMelsWell
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CrimsonKing
16 minutes ago, MissMelsWell said:

I've been using a vape for 7 years. It's saved my life so in my humble opinion it's the opposite of dangerous, it's quite literally a life saver. I'd "chatted" with my doctors for years about quitting with NO success. (nothing that even looked remotely close to success) An ecig is what did the trick. My doctors can see the POSITIVE differences over the last 7 years. A 100% improvement in my lung function ( i can RUN for the first time since I was a teenager), high blood pressure is now normal, dental health improvements, circulation improvements. In-so-far, after 7 years, there aren't any negatives the doctors can find only positives. I've also been in a long term study for the last 6 years that's being done by Penn State which is tracking the efficacy and over-all health of ecig users. You're going to start seeing some long range studies appear soon. I'm not sure when they plan to wrap up the Penn State study I'm in, I just keep sending them the documentation they need and keep responding to their study questions every six months. haha. 

As far as Diacetyl goes... no company in the US adds it to their liquids and as far as I know, none in China have for a VERY long time either. People and liquid manufacturers have known Diacety is off limits in these products... Back when I started buying liquids, ALL the manufacturers were advertising Diacetyl free. 7 years ago was the infancy of the ecig industry. 

It also bears mentioning that I haven't used nicotine in my ecig for over 5 years. I accidentally ordered a 0mg nicotine liquid and used it for a MONTH before I realized it had no nicotine. I only noticed because I had my reading glasses on while filling my tank and noticed the nic content, or lack there of, on the lable. LOL

As to the original post... I use a nautilus tank with BVC coils and an eLeaf battery. It's a simple no fuss no muss rig. 

I thank you for bringing this subject back up,i thought about doing so about 2 weeks back when it was announced that gov regulations in years to come are going to implement much lower nicotine levels in cigs to the point they are much less addictive...in fact they want "alternatives" like e-cigs,vaping,ect. to help the cause...

It really is funny when a "all a sudden" flip happens on a mass gov level like this...

 

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ExpandMyMind

I just got the MVP4. It's very well priced and the battery is a beast. Once charged it can last days, depending on how often you vape. Great mod.

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Claire.
12 hours ago, MissMelsWell said:

I've been using a vape for 7 years. It's saved my life so in my humble opinion it's the opposite of dangerous, it's quite literally a life saver. I'd "chatted" with my doctors for years about quitting with NO success. (nothing that even looked remotely close to success) An ecig is what did the trick. My doctors can see the POSITIVE differences over the last 7 years. A 100% improvement in my lung function ( i can RUN for the first time since I was a teenager), high blood pressure is now normal, dental health improvements, circulation improvements. In-so-far, after 7 years, there aren't any negatives the doctors can find only positives. I've also been in a long term study for the last 6 years that's being done by Penn State which is tracking the efficacy and over-all health of ecig users. You're going to start seeing some long range studies appear soon. I'm not sure when they plan to wrap up the Penn State study I'm in, I just keep sending them the documentation they need and keep responding to their study questions every six months. haha. 

E-cigarettes may be less harmful than cigarettes but they are not harmless. Whilst your lung function may have improved somewhat, there is no way that it's at full capacity, nor will it ever be, for that matter. I also do not for a moment believe that whatever Penn State study you're on has found only positives. There isn't one Penn State study or article that I've read that's touted vaping as a healthy alternative.

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rashore
12 minutes ago, Claire. said:

E-cigarettes may be less harmful than cigarettes but they are not harmless. Whilst your lung function may have improved somewhat, there is no way that it's at full capacity, nor will it ever be, for that matter. I also do not for a moment believe that whatever Penn State study you're on has found only positives. There isn't one Penn State study or article that I've read that's touted vaping as a healthy alternative.

Well, might not see the studies yet since they aren't finished yet. Miss is probably one of many people participating in the study.

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Claire.
4 minutes ago, rashore said:

Well, might not see the studies yet since they aren't finished yet. Miss is probably one of many people participating in the study.

Penn State has been studying various aspects of vaping for some time now, publishing select findings as they go along. Penn State News is a good source for anyone interested. Sample article: Potentially dangerous molecules detected in e-cigarette aerosols.

As for the long-term study, not only is it premature to state there are no negatives, it's also erroneous. Furthermore, most medical professionals agree that it would take up to 40 years or more before any of the really serious effects (such as lung cancer) are noticed. In the interim, one shouldn't need a scientist to tell them that vaping can and will harm their lungs, and possibly other organs as well.

 

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moonman

 

8065600b8aca1c7a4cff3cf12df25adc.jpg

Edited by moonman
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MissMelsWell
On 8/5/2017 at 11:14 AM, Claire. said:

E-cigarettes may be less harmful than cigarettes but they are not harmless. Whilst your lung function may have improved somewhat, there is no way that it's at full capacity, nor will it ever be, for that matter. I also do not for a moment believe that whatever Penn State study you're on has found only positives. There isn't one Penn State study or article that I've read that's touted vaping as a healthy alternative.

 

Whoa! I NEVER said anything about the results of the study I'm in at all (there aren't any findings released yet) , other than I am in the study group. I won't make ANY assumptions about what they are or are not finding, it would be best if you didn't either. 

It took roughly 5 years, but my lung capacity and health is about that someone my age who never smoked--using the term "100%" was sloppy communication on my part, My tests show it's within the normal range of someone my age who never smoked, I thought that was implied since no one has 100% lung capacity for all intents and purpose. And in all fairness if you read my post, I said I had 100% improvement, not 100% capacity.   

I've had nothing but a VERY positive experience over 7 years of using an ecig as a smoking cessation device. It saved my life. I was headed for COPD at age 42. Now, I'm not, and I'm healthier than I have been since I was 17. 

I also don't think I EVER said ecigs are harmless... But I could come up with HUNDREDS or even thousands of things people do that aren't harmless too and no one says anything about those things. I'll take an ecig and my health results from using one ANY DAY over the two pack a day cigarette habit I had that was bound to kill me in my early 50s. Now, I might have the opportunity to live a very long life indeed. 

 

 

Edited by MissMelsWell
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Claire.
6 hours ago, MissMelsWell said:

Whoa! I NEVER said anything about the results of the study I'm in at all (there aren't any findings released yet) , other than I am in the study group. I won't make ANY assumptions about what they are or are not finding, it would be best if you didn't either. 

It took roughly 5 years, but my lung capacity and health is about that someone my age who never smoked--using the term "100%" was sloppy communication on my part, My tests show it's within the normal range of someone my age who never smoked, I thought that was implied since no one has 100% lung capacity for all intents and purpose. And in all fairness if you read my post, I said I had 100% improvement, not 100% capacity.   

I've had nothing but a VERY positive experience over 7 years of using an ecig as a smoking cessation device. It saved my life. I was headed for COPD at age 42. Now, I'm not, and I'm healthier than I have been since I was 17. 

I also don't think I EVER said ecigs are harmless... But I could come up with HUNDREDS or even thousands of things people do that aren't harmless too and no one says anything about those things. I'll take an ecig and my health results from using one ANY DAY over the two pack a day cigarette habit I had that was bound to kill me in my early 50s. Now, I might have the opportunity to live a very long life indeed.

I realize that it's not my place to comment on others' life choices, but all I could think about when reading your post was how wonderful it was that you managed to kick your cigarette habit (not an easy feat by any means), but what a shame it was that you did not transition off the e-cigarettes. Addiction is also psychological and I understand the difficulty inherent in that. I also understand that addiction may have had no part to play in your decision.

There's no question that e-cigarettes are the lesser of the two evils, but they are still an evil. And whilst they may have saved you from the dangers of cigarette smoking, they could very well be harming you in other ways, which would be unfortunate given how well you've done otherwise.

Anyway, please keep us posted if you can regarding the study you're on. I'm keen on knowing what comes from it,

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Claire.
16 hours ago, moonman said:

 

8065600b8aca1c7a4cff3cf12df25adc.jpg

How ironic. The poster boy for addiction.

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Claire.
14 hours ago, MissMelsWell said:

Whoa! I NEVER said anything about the results of the study I'm in at all (there aren't any findings released yet) , other than I am in the study group. I won't make ANY assumptions about what they are or are not finding

You're right, you did not. I was in a rush to get to work earlier and neglected to apologize to you for that. I read your post and for some reason I erroneously linked your comment about doctors finding only positives not negatives to the Penn State study. It was a blip in the brain that I have no reasonable excuse for.

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CrimsonKing
7 hours ago, Claire. said:

I realize that it's not my place to comment on others' life choices, but all I could think about when reading your post was how wonderful it was that you managed to kick your cigarette habit (not an easy feat by any means), but what a shame it was that you did not transition off the e-cigarettes. Addiction is also psychological and I understand the difficulty inherent in that. I also understand that addiction may have had no part to play in your decision.

There's no question that e-cigarettes are the lesser of the two evils, but they are still an evil. And whilst they may have saved you from the dangers of cigarette smoking, they could very well be harming you in other ways, which would be unfortunate given how well you've done otherwise.

Anyway, please keep us posted if you can regarding the study you're on. I'm keen on knowing what comes from it,

My biggest interest in this issue is the "lesser of 2 evils"...

I have seen several people who come to the gym benefit greatly from switching over!...I agree down the line we may find out a few downsides but i don't think it will be anywhere close to the downside of actual cigs.

I really could't believe it when the fda started their "crackdown",then again i could...gotta get those sin tax dollars for the gov :rolleyes:

I was actually more shocked when they did a sudden reversal on the amount of fearmongering they had started on.

I also agree on the psychological addiction...Even if proven 100% safe i wouldn't allow them in our building...i find it highly irritating people blowing big "clouds" about of 0% nicotine <_<...if your not hooked,put it down lol

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Claire.
2 hours ago, CrimsonKing said:

My biggest interest in this issue is the "lesser of 2 evils"...

I have seen several people who come to the gym benefit greatly from switching over!...I agree down the line we may find out a few downsides but i don't think it will be anywhere close to the downside of actual cigs.

I really could't believe it when the fda started their "crackdown",then again i could...gotta get those sin tax dollars for the gov :rolleyes:

I was actually more shocked when they did a sudden reversal on the amount of fearmongering they had started on.

I also agree on the psychological addiction...Even if proven 100% safe i wouldn't allow them in our building...i find it highly irritating people blowing big "clouds" about of 0% nicotine <_<...if your not hooked,put it down lol

The 'reversal' seems to be more of a delay caused by pressure from the e-cigarette and cigar industries. You can read more about it in this article from the Washington Post. Has anything happened since then that you're aware of?

As for any downsides not being close to those of traditional cigarettes, I suppose there's a difference between a hard kill and a soft one. Ultimately, though, a kill is still a kill. Short term health studies have already demonstrated that e-cigarettes can cause immediate harm to the lungs, and whilst we don't as yet know what the longer-term effects might be, it would be safe to assume that inhaling crap that was never meant to be inhaled isn't good for anyone.

Currently, there are few ways for anyone other than the manufacturers to know what chemicals are contained in e-liquids, so thorough evaluations need to be conducted and regulations put into place. Furthermore, manufactures should not be making therapeutic claims, such as e-cigarettes can help you quit smoking, without first proving that their claim is both safe and effective. If someone decides to forgo other, safer smoking cessation methods, in favor of e-cigarettes, then vaping should be a temporary means to an end, not an end in and of itself.

As for secondhand emissions, I don't blame you for being irritated. There have been a couple of studies that have found carcinogens and other toxins (including nicotine) in them. They are not safe.

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internetperson
4 hours ago, CrimsonKing said:

Even if proven 100% safe i wouldn't allow them in our building...i find it highly irritating people blowing big "clouds" about of 0% nicotine <_<...if your not hooked,put it down lol

Yeah I know what you mean at that point it's not about the health factor. The pool hall where I go used to rent vape hookahs that lit up but they're gone now because that ****s annoying. Was funny because the catalyst to them being removed was some idiot got into it with the owner because the owner asked him not to blow giant smoke clouds around other folks.

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CrimsonKing
3 hours ago, Claire. said:

The 'reversal' seems to be more of a delay caused by pressure from the e-cigarette and cigar industries. You can read more about it in this article from the Washington Post. Has anything happened since then that you're aware of?

As for any downsides not being close to those of traditional cigarettes, I suppose there's a difference between a hard kill and a soft one. Ultimately, though, a kill is still a kill. Short term health studies have already demonstrated that e-cigarettes can cause immediate harm to the lungs, and whilst we don't as yet know what the longer-term effects might be, it would be safe to assume that inhaling crap that was never meant to be inhaled isn't good for anyone.

Currently, there are few ways for anyone other than the manufacturers to know what chemicals are contained in e-liquids, so thorough evaluations need to be conducted and regulations put into place. Furthermore, manufactures should not be making therapeutic claims, such as e-cigarettes can help you quit smoking, without first proving that their claim is both safe and effective. If someone decides to forgo other, safer smoking cessation methods, in favor of e-cigarettes, then vaping should be a temporary means to an end, not an end in and of itself.

As for secondhand emissions, I don't blame you for being irritated. There have been a couple of studies that have found carcinogens and other toxins (including nicotine) in them. They are not safe.

I hear ya Claire and i'm not argueing your points,just saying i don't think even with 50+ years of studies that e-cig use will wind up being more than 1/2 as harmful as tobacco...

I see it as s useful cessation device to drop people down to levels where there physical withdrawal will be broken...as for the other part i dunno...

I always try to give my 2 cents with patches,but those only work for more than a few months at most around 50% of the time or less...

As for the "hard/soft" kill we still aren't sure...trust me i see your point but at this point in time,we can/could only run in circles atm.

But i do agree 100%,intentionally inhaling anything but oxygen isn't good!

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MissMelsWell
6 hours ago, Claire. said:

The 'reversal' seems to be more of a delay caused by pressure from the e-cigarette and cigar industries. You can read more about it in this article from the Washington Post. Has anything happened since then that you're aware of?

As for any downsides not being close to those of traditional cigarettes, I suppose there's a difference between a hard kill and a soft one. Ultimately, though, a kill is still a kill. Short term health studies have already demonstrated that e-cigarettes can cause immediate harm to the lungs, and whilst we don't as yet know what the longer-term effects might be, it would be safe to assume that inhaling crap that was never meant to be inhaled isn't good for anyone.

Currently, there are few ways for anyone other than the manufacturers to know what chemicals are contained in e-liquids, so thorough evaluations need to be conducted and regulations put into place. Furthermore, manufactures should not be making therapeutic claims, such as e-cigarettes can help you quit smoking, without first proving that their claim is both safe and effective. If someone decides to forgo other, safer smoking cessation methods, in favor of e-cigarettes, then vaping should be a temporary means to an end, not an end in and of itself.

As for secondhand emissions, I don't blame you for being irritated. There have been a couple of studies that have found carcinogens and other toxins (including nicotine) in them. They are not safe.

LIVING isn't safe. None of us are getting out alive. At 50 years old, I've figured this one out. 

Let's be honest, i've been using ecigs almost since they were available on the market. My doctors can't find a single health problem with me... with one exception, I have RLS, but I've had that since I was about 15 years old. (It's actually improved in the last 7 years too)

Here's the real deal. As of today, there are no published long term studies with decent sample size groups. You can't say whether it should be temporary or not, you can't say if it's safe or not... the best you can say--if you're going to be unbiased--is that we don't know. There aren't any large enough sample sizes to draw any conclusions with yet.  And, for the record, I'm very much in favor of regulations on the manufacturers of liquids. The company I have always ordered my liquids from is very up front about what's in theirs, they also have a VERY sterile operation. 

keep in mind when you're reading studies that it's also all about the dosages. there are all kinds of harmful things in the water you drink every day, but that doesn't make water unsafe... it just means that those elements aren't present in big enough quantities to harm you. That char on your steak or grilled veggies is FULL of carcinogens... but you still eat them don't you? 

Is there a reason you're so invested in this topic? So invested that you are ok with scaring people who could really benefit from a tool like this? I know why I'm invested in this topic... using them has improved the quality of my life  and health100s of times over. If someone else can enjoy the same success and benefit I do I want them to. Clearly I'd never tell anyone they're harmless... I've always said "We don't know, but Iv'e been using them for 7 years under supervision and have no ill effects" Then, I expect them to make their own decisions and do their own research and talk to their own doctors. Which is the RIGHT thing to do.  

Also, you've mentioned this a few times... what are the "safer" cessation methods you seem to think exist? I understand that Cold Turkey is one... but if it doesn't work, it's not safe. So, what are the others? Because I'm pretty sure I've tried almost all of them except the meds like Chantix and Welbutrin. Meds in that class of drugs will never be something I take. 
 

Edited by MissMelsWell
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MissMelsWell

Here's an interesting story too. This happened the first year after I quit... I did suffer a rather impressive health complication after I quit smoking (it had nothing to do with the vapes though)

One year, almost to the date after I quit smoking using a vape, I went to the doctor to find out that a condition I'd had for almost all my adult life had RAPIDLY gone wildly out of a control. Since my 20s I'd had small uterine fibroid tumors. They were small, they weren't causing any problems, and they're SUPER common in a lot of women. In the year after I quit smoking, two of those tumors rapidly grew into two REALLY big tumors weighing FIFTEEN pounds! I was immediately sent to an oncologist, because rapid growing fibroid tumors are often a sign of cancer. And, the tumors were too big for my regular obgyn to perform a hysterectomy on safely. When I saw the oncologist, he took my history of course and he said he was sure the tumors were NOT cancer (he was right) and that I was NOT the first woman he'd seen with explosive fibroid growth after smoking cessation. Apparently circulation improves so fast, it aids in the rapid growth of the tumors. 

Interestingly enough, during my five days in the hospital (it was a ROUGH surgery) another intresting thing that made me go "hmmm" happened. On the second day I woke up with the worlds worst headache. I called the nurse and asked for something for my poor head, and he said no way, I was already on IV pain meds and there was nothing else they could give me. About 5 minutes later, he came back with a grande cup of Starbucks coffee.  20 minutes later my head felt swell... I could go 5 days without any nicotine and not even notice it... but I couldn't go 48 hours without caffeine. And it's terrifying that an IV drip full of narcotics couldn't even put a dent in the pain in my head from the caffeine withdrawal. Since that experience, I've taken my caffeine use to next to nothing as well. If you ask me, caffeine is WAY worse than nicotine. 

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Claire.
41 minutes ago, MissMelsWell said:

LIVING isn't safe. None of us are getting out alive. At 50 years old, I've figured this one out. 

Let's be honest, i've been using ecigs almost since they were available on the market. My doctors can't find a single health problem with me... with one exception, I have RLS, but I've had that since I was about 15 years old. (It's actually improved in the last 7 years too)

Here's the real deal. As of today, there are no published long term studies with decent sample size groups. You can't say whether it should be temporary or not, you can't say if it's safe or not... the best you can say--if you're going to be unbiased--is that we don't know. There aren't any large enough sample sizes to draw any conclusions with yet.  And, for the record, I'm very much in favor of regulations on the manufacturers of liquids. The company I have always ordered my liquids from is very up front about what's in theirs, they also have a VERY sterile operation. 

keep in mind when you're reading studies that it's also all about the dosages. there are all kinds of harmful things in the water you drink every day, but that doesn't make water unsafe... it just means that those elements aren't present in big enough quantities to harm you. That char on your steak or grilled veggies is FULL of carcinogens... but you still eat them don't you? 

Is there a reason you're so invested in this topic? So invested that you are ok with scaring people who could really benefit from a tool like this? I know why I'm invested in this topic... using them has improved the quality of my life  and health100s of times over. If someone else can enjoy the same success and benefit I do I want them to. Clearly I'd never tell anyone they're harmless... I've always said "We don't know, but Iv'e been using them for 7 years under supervision and have no ill effects" Then, I expect them to make their own decisions and do their own research and talk to their own doctors. Which is the RIGHT thing to do.  

Also, you've mentioned this a few times... what are the "safer" cessation methods you seem to think exist? I understand that Cold Turkey is one... but if it doesn't work, it's not safe. So, what are the others? Because I'm pretty sure I've tried almost all of them except the meds like Chantix and Welbutrin. Meds in that class of drugs will never be something I take.

LIVING may not be safe, and yeah sure, anyone can say what the heck, I could get hit by a bus tomorrow, so why not vape my brains out. But that's hardly the most sensible outlook is it. As for safe alternatives, there are several, and yes, cold turkey is one of them. So is nicotine replacement therapy, trigger avoidance, and even cutting back until you are able to quit altogether.

I also have no objection to vaping if nothing else works. But it's one thing to use e-cigarettes as a temporary means to an end, another to continue using them long after your primary objective has been achieved.

As for your health improvements, we've only your word to take for it. I've no idea what doctors you're seeing, what specific tests have been done, or how closely you're being monitored. I am not suggesting you're being dishonest, but I trust you'll understand why I would not recommend anyone rely on anecdotal evidence when it comes to making such a decision. I don't think you would make such a recommendation either. Everyone is different. What is harmless to one person, might be quite harmful to another.

As for why I'm vested in this topic, I wasn't until misleading information was posted. It had to be addressed, especially given the fact that we have younger members here. And for the record, I don't eat charred anything. I'm also vegan, so meat is totally off the menu. I also don't smoke, drink, or do drugs and am extremely careful with what products I use. And yeah yeah, I know, I could still get hit by a bus tomorrow...

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moonman

When it comes to vaping/smoking/whatever, do you want the advice/experience of someone who actually does it, or someone who has zero experience and simply hates it?

I know who I would take seriously in such a discussion.

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GlitterRose

Don't these pens blow up sometimes?

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moonman
1 hour ago, ChaosRose said:

Don't these pens blow up sometimes?

Anything with a lithium battery is subject to the same risks. Meltdowns are mostly due to people using unprotected/cheap batteries in unsafe/cheap setups (not to mention improper chargers). Battery chemistry and design has changed for the better, new models are much less likely to fail.

Buy a reputable device with a good battery, and you won't have an issue. I've personally owned and used tens of different batteries and devices, and I've never had an issue.

Edited by moonman
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