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Lilly

Why I Think God Exists

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internetperson

I believe this is argument from ignorance. I don't mean that as an insult, but it does sound like the classic 'If that's not ______ then explain what it is' kinda thing. I'm not even doubting that god exists but I am saying this is absolutely not proof.

As to what has always existed? I dunno.

Edited by internetperson
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spartan max2

Thinking about something forever existing is just impossible to wrap our little brains around lol.

Either the universe or some kind of God has had to forever exsist.

Just like the concept of never ending Is impossible to understand. The universe either goes on forever or it ends. But what does ending even me. If there is a stopping point then there would have to be an invisible wall, walls means somethings on the other side lol

I think some things our brains just can't understand 

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Lilly

Keep in mind a hypothesis is not something presented as 'proof'. A hypothesis is more along the line of a possible explanation that may or may not be verifiable. 

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internetperson

^ My bad I didn't take that into account. The last sentence threw me off when you said in your opinion that god has to exist. Still, I get your point. Friend of mine has the exact same viewpoint even though he's not particularly religious.

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Lilly
4 minutes ago, internetperson said:

^ My bad I didn't take that into account. The last sentence threw me off when you said in your opinion that god has to exist. Still, I get your point. Friend of mine has the exact same viewpoint even though he's not particularly religious.

Yeah, a person's opinion doesn't require proof. That said, a good opinion should at least require something supporting it...this is my personal *something* as it relates to the question of God.

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cormac mac airt
11 minutes ago, Lilly said:

Yeah, a person's opinion doesn't require proof. That said, a good opinion should at least require something supporting it...this is my personal *something* as it relates to the question of God.

As it cannot currently nor definitively be "proven" what may or may not exist prior to the Big Bang, and how it may or may not relate to any ideas of God, your opinion/hypothesis is just as valid as any other possibility. Nice thread Lilly.

cormac

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Lilly

To be quite frank, I simply don't think it's possible for anyone to prove the existence of God. IMO, the best we can do is to hold a personal opinion that's at least thoughtful.

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internetperson

@Lilly do you consider yourself religious/spiritual/whatever? I'm not trying to hound you or change your opinion I'm just genuinely curious. I'm fascinated by these kind of topics.

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Lilly

Oh, I think I'm very religious/spiritual/whatever...I just have my own idea about what it is to be religious/spiritual/whatever.

To be a bit more specific, I choose to believe in God. I choose to believe there are moral/ethical absolutes. I choose to believe there is a purpose to being alive and sentient.

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internetperson
20 minutes ago, Lilly said:

I just have my own idea about what it is to be religious/spiritual/whatever.

Ditto. Speaking strictly for myself (and not to sound melodramatic) this has been a continuing process of self discovery for me.

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and then
34 minutes ago, Lilly said:

To be quite frank, I simply don't think it's possible for anyone to prove the existence of God. IMO, the best we can do is to hold a personal opinion that's at least thoughtful.

One of the things about my faith that I love is that a day will come when my questions - and the questions of others - will be answered.  I don't begin to imagine that anyone who says they KNOW how this will occur, actually do know.  His appearance will truly shock even his believers :)  Not that they doubt he will appear, just the WAY he will appear.

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ExpandMyMind
2 hours ago, Lilly said:

Ok, I'm not saying there's a 'personal God' or a God indicative of any particular religion. What I'm offering as a hypothesis is that *something* eternal has to exist. In philosophy this is called the Cosmological Argument. Here's the basic framework of this hypothesis:

Something exists (pretty obviously our universe)

Nothing can’t bring forth something

Therefore, something must have always existed in order to cause the universe to come into existence

The universe didn’t always exist (we know the universe came into being at the Big Bang)

Therefore, something outside of the universe must have always existed

 

So, what has always existed? What is eternal? IMO, this has to be God. Opinions?

I've always thought that our universe could be like an explosion or something in another 'universe' of a far grander scale. And maybe there are other 'universes' created or existing at the quantum level of ours. A box within a box within a box.

I guess it doesn't answer the question though since there would have to be a starting point somewhere.

 

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eugenonegin
3 hours ago, Lilly said:

Ok, I'm not saying there's a 'personal God' or a God indicative of any particular religion. What I'm offering as a hypothesis is that *something* eternal has to exist. In philosophy this is called the Cosmological Argument. Here's the basic framework of this hypothesis:

Something exists (pretty obviously our universe)

Nothing can’t bring forth something

Therefore, something must have always existed in order to cause the universe to come into existence

The universe didn’t always exist (we know the universe came into being at the Big Bang)

Therefore, something outside of the universe must have always existed

 

So, what has always existed? What is eternal? IMO, this has to be God. Opinions?

Lilly,I hope you are just being provocative and this is not your actual belief.

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Stubbly_Dooright

I don't see how there could be an argument or something, because this is a thread based on a personal reason for believing. It's not something I sense of being pushed onto others. And I wouldn't want to stop you believing, as I wouldn't think you would want to start me believing in it. Unless, it's varying poster's thoughts of what they believe or not? 

I don't see how one can say, something has to exist, so therefor that's why. I really think there's more, and yet there's not something we have to formulate how to figure it out now. I don't know about assuming that the universe came from nothing, when it could be something beyond what our thinking is, and right now, it's convenient to think it was nothing. I also think, varying natural reactions could have been part of it. I feel, one can't assume it's this simple, because there is probably a lot we don't know, that could make up the universe before and after that we have no ability to understand. 

So, on that note, because we exist, I feel there has to be something, some entity, to over see us. But, that's how I see it. And even then, I'm not sure, and that's fine. 

I wonder, Lilly, what is the purpose of letting people know you believe God exists? I'm curious myself. 

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Lilly
18 minutes ago, eugeneonegin said:

Lilly,I hope you are just being provocative and this is not your actual belief.

Actually, I think it's a pretty good hypothesis. Not trying to provoke anyone...just what I choose to believe.

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Kismit
1 hour ago, eugeneonegin said:

Lilly,I hope you are just being provocative and this is not your actual belief.

I don't see what makes Lilly's belief provocative. Could you explain.

As I see it it fits very clisely wirh my own belief.

My self, I don't believe people have purpose, but I believe that God is the spark that makes all things exsist. Is this also a provocative thought?

I just don't understand how you where, provoked by someone's genuine and thoughtful post.

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Likely Guy
3 hours ago, Lilly said:

To be quite frank, I simply don't think it's possible for anyone to prove the existence of God. IMO, the best we can do is to hold a personal opinion that's at least thoughtful.

That's part of the reason I'm an apatheist. It's not within the human realm to be provable one way or the other. I'm neither full of enough faith, or skeptisim to say.

So, I don't care if God exists or not. Either way I wouldn't lead my life any differently. I know that I and others exist, and that alone is good enough for me.

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Wes4747
22 minutes ago, Likely Guy said:

That's part of the reason I'm an apatheist. It's not within the human realm to be provable one way or the other. I'm neither full of enough faith, or skeptisim to say.

So, I don't care if God exists or not. Either way I wouldn't lead my life any differently. I know that I and others exist, and that alone is good enough for me.

More and more i find myself attracted to this philosophy, perhaps as a path of least resistance? 

Questioning what cant be known is like watching tv, entertaining but not very productive... 

Since i cant sell myself on any belief the logical choice is apatheism... Or polytheism lol Were i able to pick one, such as Lilly or Andthen, it would seem better than constantly questioning for at least i would free my mind from the question.

Thus, i am a modified apatheist-dont care but acknowledge it would be good to know... Maybe.

Could our existance and everything else that does exist be the purpose in our existance? Just being? Leaves on a river.. 

Something, it seems would have to be permanent but could we not be uknown byproducts of the eternal? Too many possibilities, nothing certain except my existance, my emotions or conscious and right now. Seems all the tools i have to discover a purpose or direction.

 

 

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Tatetopa
56 minutes ago, Likely Guy said:

Either way I wouldn't lead my life any differently.

The good fortune of being Canadian!

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Likely Guy
1 minute ago, Tatetopa said:

The good fortune of being Canadian!

Freedom to believe, or not, or just not care should be universal.

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Tatetopa

The Universe and our understanding of it is still a hot topic in physics.  I just finished a book by Brian Greene called "The Hidden Universe".  He is a physics professor at Columbia.  He has also done a TED talk on string theory about 15 min. long.  The math that underpins relativity and quantum theory points to the Big Bang not being a singular event.   In fact there may be an infinity of bubble universes that pop into being fold time and space around themselves and separate themselves from our universe forever.  We may live in one such bubble universe that spawned in an older existing universe.  The Big Bang is not necessarily the ultimate beginning, but then so what.  It does not change our ability to believe or not, even if we only live in one of an infinite number of other universes.

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Tatetopa
15 minutes ago, Likely Guy said:

Freedom to believe, or not, or just not care should be universal.

That would make the world great again.

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