Galactic Goatman Posted August 10, 2017 #551 Share Posted August 10, 2017 1 minute ago, Mr Walker said: Honestly i dont think that is a reason, and i cant give you guidance on that. i was an atheist, secular humanist, when god chose to impose his presence in my life . I do agree that human beings can shut god out of their life by choice, will and effort, and that we can also invite "him " into our life, with an open heart and mind But how god responds will depend on the individual. God just is; a cosmic intelligence present within all intelligent beings, but also part of the natural environment (You can speak to god via plants or animals if you choose, and it can respond via them) What sort of benefits can one expect once they "let {god} in"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted August 10, 2017 #552 Share Posted August 10, 2017 1 minute ago, AustinHinton said: Ah I see. But it's in my experience as a person that if a god did exist, it doesn't give a damn about humanity. Why kind of a god would allow it's people to kill one another? Call me a nihilist if you want, it is in my opinion that if a god did exist, I would never worship it. But who says (the christian) god simply allows or encourages humans to kill each other. All my life since god came to me it has been pushing me to love others, to help them, to give all i can to them to work for social justice, equality and the liberation of humans from materialism and fear. With god's presence a human being can lose every material possession and even face losing their life, and yet have no fear no anger no regrets . God has taught me the true reasons for protecting and care for animals and the environment. Not because it is necessary for our own survival but simply because it is morally right God does point out the consequences, good and bad, of human behaviours, thoughts and deeds. it is a social conscience for all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted August 10, 2017 #553 Share Posted August 10, 2017 3 minutes ago, AustinHinton said: What sort of benefits can one expect once they "let {god} in"? All the ones a person reads about, and then a lot more trivial but significant ones. With god within you, you need never again be afraid, lonely, lost ,or disconnected (indeed how or why could you be afraid, lost, lonely or disconnected with a god residing within your heart and mind? You need never feel anger, guilt or hate. The mind of god does not feel those things and can teach you how not to. Your life can be filled with joy and happiness peace and contentment. I tis actually what the east would call a moment and ongoing process of enlightenment and raised consciousness Perhaps more significantly you will always have everything you need to survive, and will never envy what others have and you do not Your desire for material things will be much reduced and you will know that happiness and contentment come from within . and you will ALWAYs find a car park right outside where you want to shop A connection to the cosmic consciousness, or mind of god, also allows you some access to the minds and thoughts of other beings, which can be both a blessing and a curse but can be used to help those around you in need. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galactic Goatman Posted August 10, 2017 #554 Share Posted August 10, 2017 20 minutes ago, Mr Walker said: But who says (the christian) god simply allows or encourages humans to kill each other. Then it is not a god of love, nor one worth worshipping. 12 minutes ago, Mr Walker said: All the ones a person reads about, and then a lot more trivial but significant ones. With god within you, you need never again be afraid, lonely, lost ,or disconnected (indeed how or why could you be afraid, lost, lonely or disconnected with a god residing within your heart and mind? You need never feel anger, guilt or hate. The mind of god does not feel those things and can teach you how not to. Your life can be filled with joy and happiness peace and contentment. I tis actually what the east would call a moment and ongoing process of enlightenment and raised consciousness Perhaps more significantly you will always have everything you need to survive, and will never envy what others have and you do not Your desire for material things will be much reduced and you will know that happiness and contentment come from within . and you will ALWAYs find a car park right outside where you want to shop A connection to the cosmic consciousness, or mind of god, also allows you some access to the minds and thoughts of other beings, which can be both a blessing and a curse but can be used to help those around you in need. Hmm... it's a tempting offer, but I'm going to have to decline. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Only_ Posted August 10, 2017 #555 Share Posted August 10, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Mr Walker said: But who says (the christian) god simply allows or encourages humans to kill each other. All my life since god came to me it has been pushing me to love others, to help them, to give all i can to them to work for social justice, equality and the liberation of humans from materialism and fear. With god's presence a human being can lose every material possession and even face losing their life, and yet have no fear no anger no regrets . God has taught me the true reasons for protecting and care for animals and the environment. Not because it is necessary for our own survival but simply because it is morally right God does point out the consequences, good and bad, of human behaviours, thoughts and deeds. it is a social conscience for all. We paint creation with the stars of our fiery imagination. Edited August 10, 2017 by Be.cause 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted August 10, 2017 #556 Share Posted August 10, 2017 3 hours ago, AustinHinton said: Then it is not a god of love, nor one worth worshipping. Hmm... it's a tempting offer, but I'm going to have to decline. You missed my point The god of the bible is a loving caring compassionate god who combines both justice and mercy (the justice means that those who do harm are punished. The mercy means that all are offered eternal life0 . I was just pointing out that the god of the bible has been given a bad rap, often by people who don't think anyone is qualified to judge their behaviours or point out the consequences of their behaviours. Dont forget that, in the bible story god gave us eden, a perfect idyllic existence, yet we would not live within the rules required to stay there. As to the second that is the whole point of a god of love. You can (almost) always decline his offer You can choose the life you live and the consequences which go with your choices. Just don't blame god if it turns out less than perfectly happy, fulfilled, connected, and empowered. gee I thought the availability of preferential parking would get you, if nothing else did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted August 10, 2017 #557 Share Posted August 10, 2017 2 hours ago, Be.cause said: We paint creation with the stars of our fiery imagination. I don't quite get the connection to my post, but this is lovely. I am an evolutionist who believes that the god I know is an evolved entity; wiser, older, and more powerful, than myself. I find incredible beauty in the products of evolution, and especially in the imagination and creative potential of humanity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galactic Goatman Posted August 10, 2017 #558 Share Posted August 10, 2017 7 hours ago, Mr Walker said: You missed my point The god of the bible is a loving caring compassionate god who combines both justice and mercy (the justice means that those who do harm are punished. The mercy means that all are offered eternal life0 So basically, your god is perfectly willing to kill but excuses his actions by offering eternal life, which he has no way of proving to you that you will get it? Sounds like a scam. 7 hours ago, Mr Walker said: . I was just pointing out that the god of the bible has been given a bad rap, often by people who don't think anyone is qualified to judge their behaviours or point out the consequences of their behaviours. Dont forget that, in the bible story god gave us eden, a perfect idyllic existence, yet we would not live within the rules required to stay there. Considering your god drowned the world for not acting the way he wanted (why did he give them freedom of choice then?), I think his bad rap isn't entirely undeserved. If god didn't want Eve to eat the apple, why didn't he take the apple away? If he couldn't then he wasn't omnipoweful, if he didn't know it was there he wasn't omnipresent. 7 hours ago, Mr Walker said: gee I thought the availability of preferential parking would get you, if nothing else did. I don't have a car. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cluey Posted August 10, 2017 #559 Share Posted August 10, 2017 On 7/8/2017 at 6:34 AM, Will Due said: I hear you there. It seems pretty undignified, arguing about God's existence. As I said in another post; you're born in your father's house, he gives you his name, he calls you his son, he feeds you, he clothes you, he issues you a room in his mansion to grow up in, and then because things don't go your way while he's next door, you blame him, and claim he doesn't exist. There's no "evidence." That does seem like a waste of time. my dad did that........so i can call him god......lol......he would love that............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Liquid Gardens Posted August 10, 2017 #560 Share Posted August 10, 2017 9 hours ago, Mr Walker said: I was just pointing out that the god of the bible has been given a bad rap, often by people who don't think anyone is qualified to judge their behaviours or point out the consequences of their behaviours. Often he's given a bad rap because of his behavior period. The only way out of that evaluation is to make the words 'good', 'bad', 'evil', 'cruel', essentially meaningless. Quote Dont forget that, in the bible story god gave us eden, a perfect idyllic existence, yet we would not live within the rules required to stay there. Who is this 'we' and 'us' you are referring to? I never lived in Eden; using 'we' and 'us' is quite the stretch since you are only referring to two people. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phaeton80 Posted August 10, 2017 #561 Share Posted August 10, 2017 Reality, and the laws that govern it, is dripping with intelligence; specific design, focus, intent at all levels (from the smallest atomic, to flora / fauna, to the largest astronomical level). We need mathematics to interpret the patterns of our reality, everything has rules, or logic, that dictates its blueprint. As we need human intelligence to build software code, so must there be intelligence to build, say, DNA code. Even (micro, non transspecies) evolution drips with an inherent intelligence, adapting the system to the specific surroundings. Every geometric, atomic design of every being and plant on earth has logic, grounded in (complex, brilliant) mathematical rules. In other words, intelligence / consciousness is what our world, reality is made of. Without it, nothing would exist. There must be a source for that.. Call it what you like, but we cannot exist without it imo. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Due Posted August 10, 2017 #562 Share Posted August 10, 2017 5 minutes ago, Phaeton80 said: Call it what you like, but we cannot exist without it imo. I'll call it the Almighty. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Liquid Gardens Posted August 10, 2017 #563 Share Posted August 10, 2017 2 hours ago, Phaeton80 said: In other words, intelligence / consciousness is what our world, reality is made of. Without it, nothing would exist. Hmmm, based on the fact that our tiny inconsequential species have created things using our puny human intelligence while riding on an infinitesimal speck in this universe? That seems like a bold, and kinda unfounded, statement (recognizing of course that you did state it is just your opinion). The easiest example of why I disagree is something like snowflakes. They are intricate and geometric and much like other 'things that require intelligence to create'. By all appearances though, they seem to simply be the result of the scientific laws governing water crystallization. Should I then think that the laws of crystallization require an intelligence? Because we have grounds to expect something different? On what basis should we think that intelligence is required for natural laws, if there was no intelligence, on what basis should we expect nothing? I'm not sure, but this kinda sounds a little like what ancient people thought: "I don't know and can't imagine why some people get sick, what lightning is, etc, ergo gods". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenWolf Posted August 10, 2017 #564 Share Posted August 10, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, Liquid Gardens said: Often he's given a bad rap because of his behavior period. The only way out of that evaluation is to make the words 'good', 'bad', 'evil', 'cruel', essentially meaningless. That is exactly what has happened and I see right through it. Edited August 10, 2017 by Mystic Crusader 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenWolf Posted August 10, 2017 #565 Share Posted August 10, 2017 19 hours ago, Will Due said: Perhaps the most effective presentation of how Jesus revealed who God is: loving, merciful, and steadfast, willing to lay down his life for the sake of his friends. Another p.o.v., he was guilty and laid an egg out of revenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Due Posted August 10, 2017 #566 Share Posted August 10, 2017 2 hours ago, Mystic Crusader said: Another p.o.v., he was guilty and laid an egg out of revenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
back to earth Posted August 10, 2017 #567 Share Posted August 10, 2017 6 hours ago, Liquid Gardens said: Often he's given a bad rap because of his behavior period. The only way out of that evaluation is to make the words 'good', 'bad', 'evil', 'cruel', essentially meaningless. Who is this 'we' and 'us' you are referring to? I never lived in Eden; using 'we' and 'us' is quite the stretch since you are only referring to two people. Well, the sins of the fathers shall be passed on to their children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's children's ..... children . And man is still punishing woman for 'making him eat it' as well ( the daughter's daughter's daughter's ........ daughter . ) But you would think after Jesus got our sins forgiven .... they would finally drop this one ? According to Mr Walker ... no ... we still suffering for what they did . More 'theological' quicksand 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
back to earth Posted August 10, 2017 #568 Share Posted August 10, 2017 5 hours ago, Will Due said: I'll call it the Almighty. Is that because of what he might to do all of us if we don't obey ( with our free will ) ? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
back to earth Posted August 10, 2017 #569 Share Posted August 10, 2017 6 hours ago, Liquid Gardens said: Often he's given a bad rap because of his behavior period. The only way out of that evaluation is to make the words 'good', 'bad', 'evil', 'cruel', essentially meaningless. Who is this 'we' and 'us' you are referring to? I never lived in Eden; using 'we' and 'us' is quite the stretch since you are only referring to two people. I forgot .... you could come and visit 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claire. Posted August 10, 2017 #570 Share Posted August 10, 2017 On 2017-08-09 at 8:45 AM, Blood_Sacrifice said: Is there any idea on how the laws of physics/nature came into being? If the laws formed slightly differently, then we probably wouldn't be here to ask this question. Were they always there? By the way, I am not advocating God here - I am certainly not trying to convert anyone here by saying God created them. I am looking for a scientific answer, so if anyone knows the origin of the cosmological constants and laws of nature, then please let me know. Scientists have been trying to answer that question for years. We simply don't know. You might find this article from NOVA quite interesting. It addresses your very question and the problems inherent in coming up with an answer for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted August 10, 2017 #571 Share Posted August 10, 2017 What if we find God and it's nothing like most of humanity expects. Perhaps it is something that see's us as nothing more than that .1% bacteria the Clorox wiped didn't get. How many people would accept that? We discovered god and found out it doesn't care about us at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Due Posted August 10, 2017 #572 Share Posted August 10, 2017 28 minutes ago, XenoFish said: What if we find God and it's nothing like most of humanity expects. Perhaps it is something that see's us as nothing more than that .1% bacteria the Clorox wiped didn't get. How many people would accept that? We discovered god and found out it doesn't care about us at all. You mean you think he might be an apatheist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Due Posted August 10, 2017 #573 Share Posted August 10, 2017 54 minutes ago, back to earth said: Is that because of what he might to do all of us if we don't obey ( with our free will ) ? If you're not careful following Caligastia back to earth, you could end up eating yourself like he is, because of your free will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Liquid Gardens Posted August 11, 2017 #574 Share Posted August 11, 2017 1 hour ago, back to earth said: I forgot .... you could come and visit Wow, yea, nice place! It's amazing how divine nature can be. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted August 11, 2017 #575 Share Posted August 11, 2017 I think we are on our own. We've just made up stories to affirm our ego driven desire for self-importance. What better way to stroke the ego than having a buddy that's got a place in heaven for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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