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Lilly

Why I Think God Exists

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Liquid Gardens
18 minutes ago, Phaeton80 said:

I mean, dont get me wrong, I appreciate your input greatly, but I dont understand what I said that made you think it necessary to state this.

I was trying to get a little more specificity on what you had said concerning every facet of reality breathing intelligence; I think we agree now that snowflakes do not so it's not literally 'every facet'.

21 minutes ago, Phaeton80 said:

What is interesting, is that you seem to be arguing humans have developed into the present state just like a (symmetrical) snowflake, purely by way of external factors guiding it into a certain 'random' path of development.

Not exactly, although I would probably also argue that point also.  What I was arguing is that identifying 'intelligent design' is difficult, since that is an explanation for the structure of snowflakes and their 'design'.

31 minutes ago, Phaeton80 said:

Its like equating symmetrical patterns produced by a whirlwind with the random, spontaneous construction of a Lear Jet by thesame force.

I don't think it's anything like that, there is absolutely nothing spontaneous related to the human body, we've been around for a sliver of the 3+ billion year history of life on earth.

35 minutes ago, Phaeton80 said:

 A snowflake, or any crystal, might seem to have an intelligent design in certain forms, but its pattern is dictated by external factors.  A plane, computer software, all flora & founa, have templated (meaning 'stable') patterns that (always, per definition) follow from its blueprint, regardless of the external factors. Big difference, in my opinion.

Although software is in a different category due to its reliable duplication, flora and fauna are much like snowflakes.  Snowflakes are individual and random and have 'stable patterns' just as we do, and they are both complex and intricate.

50 minutes ago, Phaeton80 said:

I guess if I bring my opinion back to the most fundamental core, is that as a rule (to which exceptions remain) randomness = chaos, templated structured patterns = intelligence. Chaos cannot be interpreted by rules, as chaos is intrinsically ruleless, be they mathematical or not. Hence, if our reality is interpretable by such consistent rules we're not dealing with chaos, but order, thus intelligence.

I'm hard pressed to think of anything at all that is intrinsically ruleless, things merely appear random to us, I think we're really maybe just talking about the size of the 'template'. Cloud shapes, the structure and patterns of ocean waves, throws of dice all have a 'template' too governing their outcome, there's 100% 'order' there, it's just we don't have the brainpower and sensory inputs to appreciate the patterns. 

Quote

Would you pose this code does not exemplify intelligence in its make up, design? We have been talking about my take on this, but I think its about time you let us into what your take is on all this. Maybe this will help us in understanding eachother.

No, I don't think it 'exemplifies intelligence', we have an adequate explanation for why 'the code' is the way it is.  I'm more than willing to give you my take on it, but I guess I don't have much more detail than that to provide at this point, I think evolution and chemistry explains it pretty well.  I guess I'm asking you for specifics on your views and where you draw the line on things to see if there are details in my position I haven't thought about, I don't mean for it to come across like I'm trying to put you on the defensive.

I think one of your positions is that humans, or 'the code' that makes them, are too complex to be the result of 'random' natural forces.  I think you'd agree with me that genetic mutation and natural selection are not, obviously at least, 'intelligent'.  So is there some point in the history of life that species/the code became too complex for the random forces explanation?  Or are even prehistoric or simplest 'life' forms like viruses and algae obviously products of intelligent design?  If you agree that genetics and natural selection are not intelligent forces, what was your prediction on what we should instead see after billions of years of it operating, since you believe that what we see today is inconsistent with that non-intelligent explanation?  A simpler code?  No code at all?

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Only_
9 hours ago, ChaosRose said:

I think there's something deep in our psyche that is a sort of emptiness. It's a longing for something, whether that's answers or some higher consciousness.

It's Sophia's fall from the Pleroma and the resulting abortion we call reality.

The primordial error.

Edited by Be.cause

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Galactic Goatman
On 8/10/2017 at 11:41 PM, Be.cause said:

When I walk the streets instead of people I see shining sparks of light, because I know there is a divine seed waiting to sprout even in the biggest lout out there. Like Plato said: ''Be kind to all of those you meet for everyone is fighting a great battle''. The gnostic sage Basilides said that the holy spirit is sown into everything in the world. The prophet Mani said that God is in every blade of grass. There is light everywhere. The Universe is putrid but it is still the creation of a divine Being, ignorant and angry as He is and above him Sophia and Sabaoth whisper for creation to access it's potential of supernova of love.

The universe wasn't created by a divine hand though. ;) 

Edited by AustinHinton

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Mr Walker
On 12/08/2017 at 0:57 PM, jmccr8 said:

Hmmm, really after all the talk about how you know what other people think past and present.:rolleyes:

jmccr8

A gentleman never enters another persons mind uninvited 

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Mr Walker
On 12/08/2017 at 0:57 PM, jmccr8 said:

Hmmm, really after all the talk about how you know what other people think past and present.:rolleyes:

jmccr8

And after all he is A MYSTIC  crusader and, i suspect, deliberately keeps his points cryptic. :) 

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Mr Walker
On 12/08/2017 at 1:02 PM, jmccr8 said:

Well his book says that he created Adam, Eve, and Lilith in his image and we are born in the image of man, so the we/us point is mute.

jmccr8

But i don't take the bible literally. The writers naturally attributed their god with human attributes  They even tend to attribute god their own personal characteristics   And god is not human but alien

However they have one point.  To be a god for humans a being must have a certain synchronicity with  humans  and be able to think like them and behave like them   Any real god will have evolved intelligence and wisdom and control.

And humans also have the ability to do this.  In genesis god says that, given knowledge and time, humans will become as gods themselves. Some writer had clearly thought this resemblance to god by man   through to its ultimate conclusion. .

Just to point out.  The name lilith never appears in the bible.  Eve was adam's first and only wife in the bible. The legend of lilith is extra biblical, a myth or legend developed  as an adjunct to the bible but not of it  She is a creature in some hebrew writings and was adopted by gnostics  .   

Edited by Mr Walker

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Mr Walker
On 12/08/2017 at 4:29 PM, jmccr8 said:

A sharped pencil gets blunt after a few strokes or rather  not as sharp as it once was.

jmccr8

Then it is more useful, because it does not tear the page so easily,  and can be used to shade things more effectively :) 

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jmccr8
1 minute ago, Mr Walker said:

Then it is more useful, because it does not tear the page so easily,  and can be used to shade things more effectively :) 

Things getting a little slow for you Walker that your quoting me?:lol:

jmccr8

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Mr Walker
On 12/08/2017 at 11:54 PM, ChaosRose said:

He rages against the injustices of existence, and I can't blame him for that. 

I've never got why people feel existence is unjust.  The laws of natural consequence seem very clear to me and the world a very just place  

That is not to say that man is always just  Far from it   Nature is neither just nor unjust  but existence simply is, and mostly our own existence is how we make it by the way we construct our inner perceptions and  understanding of the external environment in which we live.

 To me, basically being alive and self aware is absolutely bloody fantastic, and all we are " entitled to" in life.   Any additional benefits you  can build into being alive and aware, by how you look at your life, and how you work at shaping it , are all bonuses 

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Mr Walker
On 13/08/2017 at 2:32 AM, ChaosRose said:

I think there's something deep in our psyche that is a sort of emptiness. It's a longing for something, whether that's answers or some higher consciousness. 

People try to fill it with all kinds of things that just don't satisfy. 

Without realising that everything the y need for happiness already exists within their consciousness.

 To be happy, very simply, you only have to choose to be happy. The hard part is knowing and understanding and being able to reproduce that sense of happiness (or joy or contentment) on demand   

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Mr Walker
On 14/08/2017 at 1:29 AM, AustinHinton said:

The universe wasn't created by a divine hand though. ;) 

Almost certainly not :)

But then again, at present, no one can really know, and it would depend on your definition of divine.

An entity or race which could create a universe, would be defined by a species in our current evolutionary state as divine.

  By even more advanced beings, they might be called children playing in a sand box. 

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Mr Walker
16 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Things getting a little slow for you Walker that your quoting me?:lol:

jmccr8

When coming back to new posts i start with the first one and reply,  only reading the others as i reach them. Thus i had made my comment, before noticing that you had said something similar  

I also noticed we made similar comments here. Scary isnt it?   :)

But yes. Looks like a week of fairly constant rain which will be absolutely fabulous for the farmers after winter rain did not fall until july  so I Am getting some extra time online, then sitting in front of the wood fire, reading, and watching some new movies online 

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