Italy has had enough Refugees

[Helen of Annoy]

Just now, keithisco said:

...except that you used the word "hypocrite" out of context to my post, and how can I be a "hypocrite" when I apply my beliefs to all??

Oh, we'll play that game... sure. Here:

I was specific in my post you quoted first:  ...you really aren't that simple, you are here with conscious intent to instigate hatred against a group of people, based not on their unlawful actions, but your personal dislike of their race, religion or both.

Was anyone called racist by me there? 

Then I was specific regarding my opinion of you, when you're supporting instigation of hatred while hiding behind misplaced semantic complaints: You're hypocrite.

 

Let me clarify further, since there obviously is a need to do it: a person that spends so much time trying to spread panic and hatred against one group of people and then claims it wasn't their intent is a hypocrite. 

I don't like those. My race is above that.

See, how it's done properly?

 

[FLOMBIE]

35 minutes ago, keithisco said:

Yes they will! How do you prove that someone is simply an economic migrant and not a refugee when they "conveniently" lose all of their ID and paperwork? I'd also like to know just when this repatriation of illegal immigrants is going to take place when they can just wander anywhere they want to in the Schengen area-just as thousands chose to leave the Baltic states and head to richer EU countries for better benefits.

What do I know about these people?? Exactly the same as you do except I prefer to dig out sources in their original language, look at official Police Reports quoted verbatim in Germany and Sweden and not get sucked into some ethereal super-liberal, tree-hugging La-La Land that is devoid of reality.

See, that is another misconception you have. You will not simply be granted an asylum status if you don't have a passport. You have to prove somehow where you are from, and the immigration service will also take investigative actions. Do you honestly believe we are a bunch of moronic and incompetent fools? Thanks a bunch.

What do you want to tell me about the police reports? I'm glad that all the crimes are being reported and thus persecuted. 

[keithisco]

22 hours ago, Helen of Annoy said:

Oh, we'll play that game... sure. Here:

I was specific in my post you quoted first:  ...you really aren't that simple, you are here with conscious intent to instigate hatred against a group of people, based not on their unlawful actions, but your personal dislike of their race, religion or both.

Was anyone called racist by me there? 

Then I was specific regarding my opinion of you, when you're supporting instigation of hatred while hiding behind misplaced semantic complaints: You're hypocrite.

 

Let me clarify further, since there obviously is a need to do it: a person that spends so much time trying to spread panic and hatred against one group of people and then claims it wasn't their intent is a hypocrite. 

I don't like those. My race is above that.

See, how it's done properly?

 

Bolded part: Here is where you called Grey_Area a "Racist".

And clearly you have realised your other mistake because I was not hypocritical at all so you have fabricated this nonsense "you're supporting instigation of hatred"

[keithisco]

22 hours ago, FLOMBIE said:

See, that is another misconception you have. You will not simply be granted an asylum status if you don't have a passport. You have to prove somehow where you are from, and the immigration service will also take investigative actions. Do you honestly believe we are a bunch of moronic and incompetent fools? Thanks a bunch.

What do you want to tell me about the police reports? I'm glad that all the crimes are being reported and thus persecuted. 

Incorrect... you dont need a passport to claim asylum (Geneva Convention applies), and neither are these police reports being followed up due to lack of manpower... indeed investigative journalists have uncovered what appears to be a conspiracy by council heads and Police Chiefs to downgrade reports from serious to just misdemeanours where your new immigrants are concerned. The same, but much worse in Sweden 

[Helen of Annoy]

4 minutes ago, keithisco said:

Bolded part: Here is where you called Grey_Area a "Racist".

And clearly you have realised your other mistake because I was not hypocritical at all so you have fabricated this nonsense "you're supporting instigation of hatred"

I said: personal dislike of their race, religion or both

You've got two options there, it doesn't have to be race he has private problems with. Maybe it's just religion. I'll repeat and reexplain as many times you need. 

 

And I seriously doubt you can make my apparently insufficient English somehow make your hypocrisy less visible. 

You're spending so many hours of your own time on spreading disinformation, painting situation in Europe (Germany and Sweden in particular) catastrophic, like only weak, suicidal morons live there, you accuse all the migrants of coming to Europe out of immoral or even criminal reasons... but no, you don't want your obvious motives named, you wouldn't call that poticanje na mržnju (will you kindly put that in a translator? maybe it can do better job than me) - 'scuse me, but if you do something, obviously, and claim you don't - you are a hypocrite. I'll repeat and reexplain that too, as many times you need. 

 

Back on strict topic, there's now a ship that will 'defend Europe', as you probably know. They intend to sink refugee boats - after they're emptied, let's be thankful for that, I guess, at least - in their effort to defend Europe. From unarmed, poor people. They also announced they'll accept boat people but will take them back to Africa. 

Now, you tell me, if you feel these people are defending you. I'm not afraid or ashamed to say that no, they are not defending me. In fact, I'd ask them nicely not to defend me like that. I do not need human beings 'taken back to Africa' in order to prosper or feel safe.

 

[eugenonegin]

On ‎12‎/‎07‎/‎2017 at 8:37 PM, keithisco said:

You are being way too condemnatory! 

There are simply far too many verifiable accounts of migrants bringing their stone-age beliefs with them, and their total disdain for western women who they see simply as dogs to be done with as they please. Dark_Grey is referring to these freeloaders and their illegal acts who have brought the whole asylum system into disrepute

You are also confusing refugees with economic migrants-the two are completely different. Also... you cannot be racist towards a group of people, or to a religion-that is not what that word means.

So lighten up a little before trying to shut down free speech that you have misinterpreted as being racist.

This is always difficult.

You can be racist to a group of people, that is what racism law is about.

But can you be racist to a religion? I think you possible can, when that religion is practised predominantly by a particular race.

I'm thinking, hypothetically,for example, of a holiday resort in the Far East, which has a hotel banning Christians, when the only Christians in the area would be Caucasian holiday makers from Europe.

I think most people would consider that racist in intent, at least?

I would welcome some clarification on this from more knowledgeable people.

[FLOMBIE]

On 12.7.2017 at 9:52 PM, keithisco said:

Yes they will! How do you prove that someone is simply an economic migrant and not a refugee when they "conveniently" lose all of their ID and paperwork? I'd also like to know just when this repatriation of illegal immigrants is going to take place when they can just wander anywhere they want to in the Schengen area-just as thousands chose to leave the Baltic states and head to richer EU countries for better benefits.

What do I know about these people?? Exactly the same as you do except I prefer to dig out sources in their original language, look at official Police Reports quoted verbatim in Germany and Sweden and not get sucked into some ethereal super-liberal, tree-hugging La-La Land that is devoid of reality.

Do you speak German, or are you trying to figure **** out with google translate. Because that doesn't work well, and can lead to misconceptions. I had to clarify quite a lot already, and I will continue doing so. You don't really know what you are talking about. 

 

If you want benefits, you have to register. Without registration, no benefits. So you cannot be illegal. One more time: Do you think we Germans are stupid idiots that don't care what happens in our country? Do you REALLY know how the asylum system works? 

[keithisco]

13 hours ago, FLOMBIE said:

Do you speak German, or are you trying to figure **** out with google translate. Because that doesn't work well, and can lead to misconceptions. I had to clarify quite a lot already, and I will continue doing so. You don't really know what you are talking about. 

 

If you want benefits, you have to register. Without registration, no benefits. So you cannot be illegal. One more time: Do you think we Germans are stupid idiots that don't care what happens in our country? Do you REALLY know how the asylum system works? 

Yes...I do speak, read and write German (from several years of living there). Hope that clarifies and puts into context your second sentence.

2nd paragraph: you need to register (agreed) for asylum, you do not need any proof of nationality or a passport to register. You German Govt then have 15months to prove (or otherwise) your claim during which period you are entitled to housing, free meals, health cover and monthly cash payment for basic needs. After 15 months you are then entitled to a doubling of the cash you are given monthly plus accommodation and heating costs. Add to that an additional 92 euros for each dependent child (age related benefit). Am I wrong?

Note: since 2015 over 300,000 "asylum seekers" have "disappeared" - can you tell me why, or where they have gone?

I DO NOT think Germans are stupid idiots en masse, but your Chancellor certainly is if she thinks she is not underminig German heritage and allowing people who want to harm Germany free-reign, then covering up the evidence of this happening to delude the public.  

 

[keithisco]

19 hours ago, Helen of Annoy said:

I said: personal dislike of their race, religion or both

You've got two options there, it doesn't have to be race he has private problems with. Maybe it's just religion. I'll repeat and reexplain as many times you need. 

 

And I seriously doubt you can make my apparently insufficient English somehow make your hypocrisy less visible. 

You're spending so many hours of your own time on spreading disinformation, painting situation in Europe (Germany and Sweden in particular) catastrophic, like only weak, suicidal morons live there, you accuse all the migrants of coming to Europe out of immoral or even criminal reasons... but no, you don't want your obvious motives named, you wouldn't call that poticanje na mržnju (will you kindly put that in a translator? maybe it can do better job than me) - 'scuse me, but if you do something, obviously, and claim you don't - you are a hypocrite. I'll repeat and reexplain that too, as many times you need. 

 

Back on strict topic, there's now a ship that will 'defend Europe', as you probably know. They intend to sink refugee boats - after they're emptied, let's be thankful for that, I guess, at least - in their effort to defend Europe. From unarmed, poor people. They also announced they'll accept boat people but will take them back to Africa. 

Now, you tell me, if you feel these people are defending you. I'm not afraid or ashamed to say that no, they are not defending me. In fact, I'd ask them nicely not to defend me like that. I do not need human beings 'taken back to Africa' in order to prosper or feel safe.

 

If uncovering and revealing the truth behind the ludicrous Liberal cheerleading of this undeclared invasion, and pointing out that all is not "sweetness and light" with this policy, that there are HUGE downsides to this project, which you would rather not hear or read then I think it may be you with the problem, not me.

Genuine asylum is one thing, and a noble aspiration, when others use that same emergency procedure to try and grab a better economic life for them selves then we are all entitled to say "no" without people like yourself, resorting to name-calling.

[Helen of Annoy]

Like I said, I'm not afraid or ashamed to say what I think, believe and do. 

That's why I have no problems with directly answering direct questions and that's also why I don't find anything particularly disturbing in the names I was called, by people who - surprisingly - reserve that right for themselves only. 

But enough about us, the incredibly lucky ones. 

 

There's no escape from the fact that these are people in those boats.  

While I understand the caution, I do not understand the need to kick someone who's already on the floor. They keep being kicked. It's especially disgusting that they are so viciously kicked verbally, on the Internet, because it would be too hard to kick them physically in the real life. - Just another fact that cannot be avoided, no matter how much it mustn't be said because it might disturb the fine feelings of the kickers.

My god, what bizarre construction I should comply with here. No way. 

Finding yourself in poverty and under persecution is neither a crime nor a sin. Assisting persecution is both. Hypocrisy is 'only' a sin, though.

 

 

The boat people will stop coming when they can survive at their own homes.   

Whoever thinks that fact can be swept under the rug, will have to import more rug makers.  

[keithisco]

2 hours ago, Helen of Annoy said:

Like I said, I'm not afraid or ashamed to say what I think, believe and do. 

That's why I have no problems with directly answering direct questions and that's also why I don't find anything particularly disturbing in the names I was called, by people who - surprisingly - reserve that right for themselves only. 

But enough about us, the incredibly lucky ones. 

 

There's no escape from the fact that these are people in those boats.  

While I understand the caution, I do not understand the need to kick someone who's already on the floor. They keep being kicked. It's especially disgusting that they are so viciously kicked verbally, on the Internet, because it would be too hard to kick them physically in the real life. - Just another fact that cannot be avoided, no matter how much it mustn't be said because it might disturb the fine feelings of the kickers.

My god, what bizarre construction I should comply with here. No way. 

Finding yourself in poverty and under persecution is neither a crime nor a sin. Assisting persecution is both. Hypocrisy is 'only' a sin, though.

 

 

The boat people will stop coming when they can survive at their own homes.   

Whoever thinks that fact can be swept under the rug, will have to import more rug makers.  

Lets split this argument into 2 very distinct parts:

1. Economic Migrants

2. Refugees (asylum seekers)

1:Economic migrants have every opportunity to apply legally for an entry and work visa into any EU nation by applying to the relevant Embassy in their country of origin. They must meet academic and financial criteria of course, like anybody else applying. These people have seen the opportunity afforded by genuine refugees and simply circumvented the correct way by claiming to be something that they are not. These people are not "on the floor", they are not living in abject poverty, and neither are they, for the most part, unsafe in their own country.

These are people who need to be shown the door, not given anything, and simply deported. This would also appear to be the view of their countrymen living in the EU who have done everything correctly and are really angry that these people dont have to do anything whatsoever to be eligible for entry as an economic migrant.

2. Refugees:This class of people are deserving of our help and assistance, these are the ones who have normally gone to the nearest safe country-this is why Jordan, Turkey and the nearby Syrian Refugee Camps have so many of them. Why they come to Europe is somewhat bewildering to me because asylum only lasts until their home country is declared safe as they have no International Rights to claim citizenship here. That said-these people we can and should help.

I assume that you class me amongst the "kickers" but you do not have a superior moral authority than I do... and yes, without shame, I will say that Merkels "open door" policy to anyone from the African continent will, and can, only end badly for all people. There is overwhelming evidence that many economic migrants have no respect for European ideals and values, they wantonly and openly flout our laws and attack our citizens. That cannot be allowed to continue

 

[Helen of Annoy]

Let's notice that I'm not interested in playing court house. Especially not one where someone will go that far to even suggest human beings could be proven unworthy of basic rights, through their origin and status alone, and found collectively guilty, again for their origin and status alone.

 

But, since there's overwhelming evidence that many native Europeans have no respect for any ideals or values anymore, I am interested in discussion about: where can we deport those?  

[keithisco]

1 hour ago, Helen of Annoy said:

Let's notice that I'm not interested in playing court house. Especially not one where someone will go that far to even suggest human beings could be proven unworthy of basic rights, through their origin and status alone, and found collectively guilty, again for their origin and status alone.

 

But, since there's overwhelming evidence that many native Europeans have no respect for any ideals or values anymore, I am interested in discussion about: where can we deport those?  

Either you did not read my posts, or you did not understand my posts.

ECONOMIC MIGRANTS have a legal route into European nations and millions have followed this route, paid the fees, achieved the level of education required, offering a skill that is required in their nation of choice. The ECONOMIC MIGRANTS that have tagged onto the ASYLUM Seekers fleeing war etc in their own nations are nothing more than ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS and therefore do not qualify for entry. What is so difficult to understand about that?

The simple fact that they do not wish to follow the legal route suggests to me that most are just feckless or want something for nothing. Why have 300,000 "asylum seekers" disappeared in Germany?? Do you , even for one minute, think they are escaping persecution?? 

Why do these people not want to settle in the Balkans, is it because they are also not "safe" countries to live in, or is it because they get more money from the richer northern European nations thereby exposing their true motives?

[stevewinn]

2 hours ago, keithisco said:

Either you did not read my posts, or you did not understand my posts.

ECONOMIC MIGRANTS have a legal route into European nations and millions have followed this route, paid the fees, achieved the level of education required, offering a skill that is required in their nation of choice. The ECONOMIC MIGRANTS that have tagged onto the ASYLUM Seekers fleeing war etc in their own nations are nothing more than ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS and therefore do not qualify for entry. What is so difficult to understand about that?

The simple fact that they do not wish to follow the legal route suggests to me that most are just feckless or want something for nothing. Why have 300,000 "asylum seekers" disappeared in Germany?? Do you , even for one minute, think they are escaping persecution?? 

Why do these people not want to settle in the Balkans, is it because they are also not "safe" countries to live in, or is it because they get more money from the richer northern European nations thereby exposing their true motives?

you only have to listen to migrants already here, even they oppose the mass influx of #allwelcome, because like you said, the legal economic migrants have jumped through all the legal hoops to get here the illegals just jumped in a boat.

[skliss]

18 hours ago, Helen of Annoy said:

The boat people will stop coming when they can survive at their own homes

And exactly when and how is this supposed to happen? How will there be any change if all the people that want change leave? Why would any of them want to go back when they get everything handed to them for free? 

[Helen of Annoy]

The trouble is that everyone tends to judge others based on their own way of doing things. We always expect others to do what we would do in their place. 

[Zinc12]

I'm sorry but you haven't learned to be multicultural yet!

[eugenonegin]

Italy may have found a solution:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4699210/Italy-EU-visas-200-000-migrants-send-north.html

Italian government officials have threatened to issue temporary EU visas to thousands of migrants in an effort to deal with Italy's escalating migrant and refugee crisis that would allow new arrivals to travel north.

In what has been described as a 'nuclear option,' Italian government officials have threatened to allow 200,000 migrants who enter the country to travel across Europe by using a Brussels directive, The Times reports. 

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4699210/Italy-EU-visas-200-000-migrants-send-north.html#ixzz4muuEYtLJ
 

Edited July 15, 2017 by eugeneonegin

[Helen of Annoy]

45 minutes ago, Zinc12 said:

I'm sorry but you haven't learned to be multicultural yet!

There's no such thing as 'multiculture'. 

All the newcomers will assimilate with time (no, not right away) or condemn themselves to isolation, which always ends up devastating for the ghetto (again, no, not today, give it few decades more or less).

And speaking of European culture, I'd say it's deteriorating each time we let people drown because they're poor, black and/or Muslim.

Being afraid is not suddenly, by some far right logic, the defining part of European culture, it's just a sign one doesn't feel up to the problem they're facing.  

Obviously, Europe truly is not up to the migrant problem. But it could be, that's the part that drives not completely stupid people insane with frustration. 

 

23 minutes ago, eugeneonegin said:

Italy may have found a solution:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4699210/Italy-EU-visas-200-000-migrants-send-north.html

Considering the source, it's fairly certain it won't happen. 

If it does, I wouldn't blame Italians. 

[RoofGardener]

19 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said:

There's no such thing as 'multiculture'. 

All the newcomers will assimilate with time (no, not right away) or condemn themselves to isolation, which always ends up devastating for the ghetto (again, no, not today, give it few decades more or less).

....

Either that, or slowly agitate to transform their new host society into a model of their former one. 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2587215/Sharia-Law-enshrined-British-legal-lawyers-guidelines-drawing-documents-according-Islamic-rules.html

http://www.dailywire.com/news/5388/islamic-preacher-british-muslims-demand-sharia-law-michael-qazvini#

http://www.investors.com/tapper-scolding-of-carson-ignores-islamic-fifth-column-building-inside-america/#ixzz3obSt6yyt

"• Omar Ahmad, co-founder of the Council on American-Islamic Relations, the top Muslim lobby group in Washington: "Islam isn't in America to be equal to any other faith, but to become dominant. The Quran should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on Earth."

I don't see any intention to integrate, assimilate,or isolate, in the above ?  

Of course, that may not represent the vocal majority. Oh.. wait.. it does. More than 50% of young Muslims in the USA support the introduction of Sharia to be superior to the US legal code, and a similar proportion in the UK. 

Obviously, not ALL refugee/immigrant types are that arrogant, nor are all of them muslim. But here's the thing. 

MOST of them are. (and - curiously - most are males of military age)

Edited July 15, 2017 by RoofGardener

[Helen of Annoy]

1 hour ago, RoofGardener said:

Either that, or slowly agitate to transform their new host society into a model of their former one. 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2587215/Sharia-Law-enshrined-British-legal-lawyers-guidelines-drawing-documents-according-Islamic-rules.html

http://www.dailywire.com/news/5388/islamic-preacher-british-muslims-demand-sharia-law-michael-qazvini#

http://www.investors.com/tapper-scolding-of-carson-ignores-islamic-fifth-column-building-inside-america/#ixzz3obSt6yyt

"• Omar Ahmad, co-founder of the Council on American-Islamic Relations, the top Muslim lobby group in Washington: "Islam isn't in America to be equal to any other faith, but to become dominant. The Quran should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on Earth."

I don't see any intention to integrate, assimilate,or isolate, in the above ?  

Of course, that may not represent the vocal majority. Oh.. wait.. it does. More than 50% of young Muslims in the USA support the introduction of Sharia to be superior to the US legal code, and a similar proportion in the UK. 

Obviously, not ALL refugee/immigrant types are that arrogant, nor are all of them muslim. But here's the thing. 

MOST of them are. (and - curiously - most are males of military age)

Slowly agitating might result in running fast. 

Though, truth be told, I don't really know about you. You tell me, in all seriousness, do you think your nation really lost itself that much? So that anyone could agitate you into something you're not?  

Is that Muslim fault? If you're so susceptible to idiotic ideas, what does it matter what particular flavour of stupid will destroy you? 

If you can be lobbied into obedience to hostile strangers and change of faith - and by such charming idiots no less - of what use were you anyway?

 

Also, most of them are of working for their families age. 

I live among completely white and Christian people and still it's somehow expected that men are the leading breadwinners in the family. It often isn't so and that often crushes delicate male ego, by the way. So I wouldn't blame someone who literally escaped from Africa, literally yesterday, for being male and wanting to secure survival for his wife and kids. And - oh, the horror - they would like to be reunited with their families one day too! 

 

May I be brutally honest, for a change?

You guys are doing the racism completely wrong. You are supposed to believe you are better, not worse than the others.  

You have to find some confidence already. This is getting embarrassing, really. 

[RoofGardener]

Sorreeeee HoT.  

< sits in corner with nose against wall, writing 100 lines "I must not be susceptible to idiotic ideas" > 

Wait.. hold on.. I'm on Unexplained Mysteries. I'm reading articles about the planet Ubuntu, or whatever it's called. And greys. 

< stands up, and emerges from corner > 

I'm susceptible to Idiotic Idea's, and I'm PROUD !  

[Helen of Annoy]

2 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

Sorreeeee HoT.  

< sits in corner with nose against wall, writing 100 lines "I must not be susceptible to idiotic ideas" > 

Wait.. hold on.. I'm on Unexplained Mysteries. I'm reading articles about the planet Ubuntu, or whatever it's called. And greys. 

< stands up, and emerges from corner > 

I'm susceptible to Idiotic Idea's, and I'm PROUD !  

Don't worry, it can be kicked out of you  

And it's not your fault, it's the fault of the modern technology. If you were writing in chalk, instead of simply copy/pasting it, you'd be cured by now.  

[RoofGardener]

51 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said:

Don't worry, it can be kicked out of you  

And it's not your fault, it's the fault of the modern technology. If you were writing in chalk, instead of simply copy/pasting it, you'd be cured by now.  

Surely you're not casting DOUBT on the existence of the Planet Ubuntu ?

 

Edited July 15, 2017 by RoofGardener

[Helen of Annoy]

24 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

Surely you're not casting DOUBT on the existence of the Planet Ubuntu ?

 

Don't give me false hopes.