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Italy has had enough Refugees


eugenonegin
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10 hours ago, Helen of Annoy said:

Are you sure you are really that much more informed than me that I really need you to tell me I'm the one who's slitting my own society's throat - by living by the principles that makes our society worthy?

The same principles that allow people to make stupid decisions that put others in jeopardy.

 

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You want me to drop compassion? So I can stay European? 'scuse me, but it seems you weren't acquainted with European society at all. Please, inform yourself before you talk to me again. 

I think you're more interested in looking compassionate. Western society prides itself on freedom, but some would rather hang themselves (and everyone else) with it.

Edited by Rlyeh
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10 hours ago, Helen of Annoy said:

Absolutely. 

Only it's mostly your citizens (mostly of Asian descent) that attempted terrorist acts. There's also surprising amount of tolerance in your country, towards open Islamist hatemongers, who disturb everyone except their Saudi sponsors and the freaking extreme right that makes a living from Islamist escapades.  

Your prosperity... I seriously believe that if it does depend on few migrants more or less, you're screwed whether they sneak in or not. If there's not enough for the natives, it's not because Iraqis and Africans ate it all, it's because someone on top is waaaay too greedy or incompetent or both. 

And I'd say you've got far larger influx from already domesticated others than you can ever have from this particular wave that is not aimed at you anyway. All you get is the symbolic amount the French let through, just to mess with you a little.

So, forgive me for I'll be blunt again, but I'd say half of those scared to death of ragged refugees are plain old racists, the other half victims of fear campaign.

I honestly apologize for that bluntness of mine, but I can't force myself anymore to lie as much as it is expected lately. I also must add, since I commented your situation, that our local situation is not in any way clearer or better. It's different than yours, but in fact worse, not to bother you with details. 

Still I'm trying not to be uglier than I necessarily have to be. 

I'd agree with you over the first paragraph. The second... well... it's not black-and-white. A single migrant arriving does not cause the economy to collapse, nor can it be said that "there is not enough for the natives". However, extrapolation is quite easy, and unless something is done, the demographic and social culture of European countries WILL change; from a reasonably enlightened one to a primitive religious theocracy. THAT is the concern.

You do not need to apologise for bluntness; you are actually polite in your discourse, albeit firm. :) 

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2 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

I'd agree with you over the first paragraph. The second... well... it's not black-and-white. A single migrant arriving does not cause the economy to collapse, nor can it be said that "there is not enough for the natives". However, extrapolation is quite easy, and unless something is done, the demographic and social culture of European countries WILL change; from a reasonably enlightened one to a primitive religious theocracy. THAT is the concern.

You do not need to apologise for bluntness; you are actually polite in your discourse, albeit firm. :) 

Thank you. 

I share that concern. It is not likely (in my opinion) but said theocracy is such an repulsive idea it indeed must always be considered and prevented.

It's obvious that I'm certain there's no invading intent among Africans who are trying to reach Europe, but it's also obvious that I'm personally very annoyed with the fact that various Saudis can actually buy influence in our societies and also can apparently buy status above our laws. Now, that's what smells worse than a refugee boat and that has to stop. 

Also, to me personally, any theocracy is absolutely unacceptable. I would go very far for my culture, that is inseparable from Christianity, and precisely because of that I will never allow any blasphemers to ride on Jesus to the totalitarian power. (I'm sort of an agnostic, but I'd never disregard Christian principles the way many professional Christians do.)

 

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2 hours ago, Helen of Annoy said:

Yes, sometimes violence is the answer. 

Only it's not up to anyone outside particular European country to decide when each of us will use violence and to what extent. Especially not just because it suits Russian agenda at this point. (No one even questions who tossed Syrians at Europe, it was Russia, with open intent to create chaos and distrust in the governments who were supposed to be unable to deal with few hundred thousand refugees in total, at once.)

And when violence is used, it was and it will be according to respectable laws of particular country, by people trained, licensed, paid and supervised to do it in the name of the state, certainly not some lynch mobs. 

 

So the next time you swallow Russian activist's bait, will you please think twice if being across the Atlantic gives you both the legal and the moral right to advocate breaking laws in EU countries. 

In other words, do your lynching at your own home, do not even look in the direction of mine. Is this lynching issue a little clearer now?  

I think you're mistaking me for an anti muslim or anti immigrant type but you're missing the mark.

I was solely speaking of how those who are sexually assaulting women. I do apologize if the fact that the people in these european nations are half men for allowing this crap to happen offends you,it should it offends me too. 

Im a stoner hippy who abhors violence, but im very  experienced with it and the reality is there is a time and place when it is appropriate. It would seem to me that once your women start being treated like garbage it has become the right time and place. 

As for your anti lynch mob sentiment, perhaps you are correct , or maybe were correct is the proper verbiage , but (and i can tell you this from professional experience)western law enforcement tactics hold no sway over a populace which has been treated barbarically by those who have lorded over them their entire lives. 

 

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54 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said:

[...]

Also, to me personally, any theocracy is absolutely unacceptable.[...]

Think what will happen when (no ifs) underage engineers from Pakistan, Afghanistan, Syria, etc will become majority in Croatia. You will have full blown theocracy with all niceties... Do you want to see Zagreb as New Kabul?

 

Heck, even in Hell islamists aren't welcomed...

 

Edited by bmk1245
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32 minutes ago, bmk1245 said:

Think what will happen when (no ifs) underage engineers from Pakistan, Afghanistan, Syria, etc will become majority in Croatia. You will have full blown theocracy with all niceties... Do you want to see Zagreb as New Kabul?

:lol:

Come on, you know enough about us to know how ridiculous this was. Majority... we're still in International Court for drawing the line... over the Muslim and Orthodox bodies... of course, being a patriot I will say 'they started first!' and believe it, but to be honest, we did blur the difference between the defence and the retribution. Of morbid extents.  

Besides, I won't argue with you. I know we have different ideas about this particular problem but I believe we have more direct common issues to be worried and unison about. 

If the Muslims are indeed coming, I'll be first to yell about it. (Trust me, I have an ancestor buried with his favourite ax he used to crack Ottoman skulls with.) 

 

 

 

edit: aha, the video. All right, I watched, it is funny :D but it makes fun not as much of the Islamists, as it does of current moronic corporate culture with their endless meetings and wisdom snorted off the toilet lid. 

Edited by Helen of Annoy
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38 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

I think you're mistaking me for an anti muslim or anti immigrant type but you're missing the mark.

I was solely speaking of how those who are sexually assaulting women. I do apologize if the fact that the people in these european nations are half men for allowing this crap to happen offends you,it should it offends me too. 

Im a stoner hippy who abhors violence, but im very  experienced with it and the reality is there is a time and place when it is appropriate. It would seem to me that once your women start being treated like garbage it has become the right time and place. 

As for your anti lynch mob sentiment, perhaps you are correct , or maybe were correct is the proper verbiage , but (and i can tell you this from professional experience)western law enforcement tactics hold no sway over a populace which has been treated barbarically by those who have lorded over them their entire lives. 

 

Which reminds me... do not insult me or my husband with implying I need special protection and he couldn't deliver it. 

And I'm not perhaps correct about clearly instructing you to stop trying to gather lynch mobs in Europe, I'm absolutely certainly correct about it. 

You want private citizens reactions? You had them in Cologne. One of the most prominent was a countryman of mine. Until police came and explained who does what in a civilized country. 

 

Do not assist those who are trying to destabilize European countries by this fear campaign, among other methods. 

Being aware of that or not, that is what you've been used to do here.   

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2 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said:

Which reminds me... do not insult me or my husband with implying I need special protection and he couldn't deliver it. 

And I'm not perhaps correct about clearly instructing you to stop trying to gather lynch mobs in Europe, I'm absolutely certainly correct about it. 

You want private citizens reactions? You had them in Cologne. One of the most prominent was a countryman of mine. Until police came and explained who does what in a civilized country. 

 

Do not assist those who are trying to destabilize European countries by this fear campaign, among other methods. 

Being aware of that or not, that is what you've been used to do here.   

I hear what youre saying however you need to relax a little sometimes a cigar is just a cigar and sometimes a scumbag just needs to be punched in the throat. 

 

 

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10 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said:

:lol:

Come on, you know enough about us to know how ridiculous this was. Majority... we're still in International Court for drawing the line... over the Muslim and Orthodox bodies... of course, being a patriot I will say 'they started first!' and believe it, but to be honest, we did blur the difference between the defence and the retribution. Of morbid extents.  

Besides, I won't argue with you. I know we have different ideas about this particular problem but I believe we have more direct common issues to be worried and unison about. 

If the Muslims are indeed coming, I'll be first to yell about it. (Trust me, I have an ancestor buried with his favourite ax he used to crack Ottoman skulls with.) 

Really? Just look how pestilence spreads in Indonesia. Just a matter of time when all Indonesia falls into that black hole. Do you get where I'm going with that?

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5 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

I hear what youre saying however you need to relax a little sometimes a cigar is just a cigar and sometimes a scumbag just needs to be punched in the throat. 

 

 

Amen to that. 

 

1 minute ago, bmk1245 said:

Really? Just look how pestilence spreads in Indonesia. Just a matter of time when all Indonesia falls into that black hole. Do you get where I'm going with that?

Yes and I'm sure you noticed by now what is my opinion of that. 

For my detailed opinion about our particular situation, see this thread from few pages back up to here... now I'm off to wash windows... on Sunday... but no local turbo-Catholic will say anything against it because they were already informed of my theological stance on dirt, laziness, working hours over the week and so on.  

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Just now, Helen of Annoy said:

Amen to that. 

 

Yes and I'm sure you noticed by now what is my opinion of that. 

For my detailed opinion about our particular situation, see this thread from few pages back up to here... now I'm off to wash windows... on Sunday... but no local turbo-Catholic will say anything against it because they were already informed of my theological stance on dirt, laziness, working hours over the week and so on.  

OK, have a nice weekend (whats left of that)!

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ISIL is defeated.

Let's now spend some money (which will be far, far cheaper than the amount spend on munitions) on helping the citizens of the Middle East return and rebuild their lives-we can spend hundreds of thousands of dollars and pounds a day launching military strikes, let's spend a fraction of that on rebuilding homes and repatriating the displaced peoples.

 

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4 hours ago, eugeneonegin said:

ISIL is defeated.

Let's now spend some money (which will be far, far cheaper than the amount spend on munitions) on helping the citizens of the Middle East return and rebuild their lives-we can spend hundreds of thousands of dollars and pounds a day launching military strikes, let's spend a fraction of that on rebuilding homes and repatriating the displaced peoples.

 

They are not defeated. Now we have to run through the desert again to find them. They are back to the state there were in before they founded the Kalifate, but they are not defeated. It's gonna be the good ol' guerrilla tactics all over again.

And the civil war in Syria is not over at all.

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Over the years I have known many refugees, mainly from Vietnam. Laos, and Cambodia.  My old room mate from Laos told a story that he and a friend stole a water buffalo because everyone was starving.  Someone caught with some of the meat talked and my room mates friend was dragged behind a car by the neck up and down the streets of the town until decapitated.  My room mate escaped to Thailand before they caught him thankfully.  Another guy I was friends with from Vietnam told me a horrific story of his family and others escaping on a boat (remember the boat people?) being boarded by pirates and the things to horrific to mention on this website that happened to them.  An acquaintance from El Salvador told me of the soldiers that came to his village in the middle of the night when he was a boy lining up every man and male teenager against a wall and mowing them down with machine guns while he and the other children and women were forced to witness.  These refugees are trying to escape from some circumstances that we can barely imagine.  I wish we would all empathize with them better, and help more.

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2 minutes ago, OverSword said:

Over the years I have known many refugees, mainly from Vietnam. Laos, and Cambodia.  My old room mate from Laos told a story that he and a friend stole a water buffalo because everyone was starving.  Someone caught with some of the meat talked and my room mates friend was dragged behind a car by the neck up and down the streets of the town until decapitated.  My room mate escaped to Thailand before they caught him thankfully.  Another guy I was friends with from Vietnam told me a horrific story of his family and others escaping on a boat (remember the boat people?) being boarded by pirates and the things to horrific to mention on this website that happened to them.  An acquaintance from El Salvador told me of the soldiers that came to his village in the middle of the night when he was a boy lining up every man and male teenager against a wall and mowing them down with machine guns while he and the other children and women were forced to witness.  These refugees are trying to escape from some circumstances that we can barely imagine.  I wish we would all empathize with them better, and help more.

There is plenty of empathy. It's the helping that is infinitely more complicated and nuanced...

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5 minutes ago, Dark_Grey said:

There is plenty of empathy. It's the helping that is infinitely more complicated and nuanced...

More empathy would equal more willingness to help.  Something that is lacking in some countries :)

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19 minutes ago, OverSword said:

More empathy would equal more willingness to help.  Something that is lacking in some countries :)

People were told they'll have to sacrifice something for the refugees. While it's not true, it scares the bejesus out of average person.  

 

edit: oh, not to mention they were also told refugees will rape everyone and cut their heads off and such.

Edited by Helen of Annoy
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6 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said:

Edit: oh, not to mention they were also told refugees will rape everyone and cut their heads off and such.

...which is exactly what happened ALA Sweden and Germany. Weird how those suspicions turned out to be correct..hmm...

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36 minutes ago, Dark_Grey said:

...which is exactly what happened ALA Sweden and Germany. Weird how those suspicions turned out to be correct..hmm...

But it doesn't. Not in the way that you want it to be true. 

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1 hour ago, Dark_Grey said:

...which is exactly what happened ALA Sweden and Germany. Weird how those suspicions turned out to be correct..hmm...

I don't think you're simple enough to actually believe there are refugees raping and murdering freely through Sweden and Germany. 

So if you really aren't that simple, you are here with conscious intent to instigate hatred against a group of people, based not on their unlawful actions, but your personal dislike of their race, religion or both. It is illegal in most European countries, if not all of them. Do you know why? Because wars keep breaking out when people like you are left to satisfy their unhealthy urges in public. 

 

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31 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said:

I don't think you're simple enough to actually believe there are refugees raping and murdering freely through Sweden and Germany. 

So if you really aren't that simple, you are here with conscious intent to instigate hatred against a group of people, based not on their unlawful actions, but your personal dislike of their race, religion or both. It is illegal in most European countries, if not all of them. Do you know why? Because wars keep breaking out when people like you are left to satisfy their unhealthy urges in public. 

 

You are being way too condemnatory! 

There are simply far too many verifiable accounts of migrants bringing their stone-age beliefs with them, and their total disdain for western women who they see simply as dogs to be done with as they please. Dark_Grey is referring to these freeloaders and their illegal acts who have brought the whole asylum system into disrepute

You are also confusing refugees with economic migrants-the two are completely different. Also... you cannot be racist towards a group of people, or to a religion-that is not what that word means.

So lighten up a little before trying to shut down free speech that you have misinterpreted as being racist.

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1 minute ago, keithisco said:

You are being way too condemnatory! 

There are simply far too many verifiable accounts of migrants bringing their stone-age beliefs with them, and their total disdain for western women who they see simply as dogs to be done with as they please. Dark_Grey is referring to these freeloaders and their illegal acts who have brought the whole asylum system into disrepute

You are also confusing refugees with economic migrants-the two are completely different. Also... you cannot be racist towards a group of people, or to a religion-that is not what that word means.

So lighten up a little before trying to shut down free speech that you have misinterpreted as being racist.

First of all, economic migrants will not be granted asylum in Germany. And second, you are being way to condemnatory. What do you really know about these people except for what you've read on opinionated and sensationalist media outlets?

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4 minutes ago, FLOMBIE said:

First of all, economic migrants will not be granted asylum in Germany. And second, you are being way to condemnatory. What do you really know about these people except for what you've read on opinionated and sensationalist media outlets?

Yes they will! How do you prove that someone is simply an economic migrant and not a refugee when they "conveniently" lose all of their ID and paperwork? I'd also like to know just when this repatriation of illegal immigrants is going to take place when they can just wander anywhere they want to in the Schengen area-just as thousands chose to leave the Baltic states and head to richer EU countries for better benefits.

What do I know about these people?? Exactly the same as you do except I prefer to dig out sources in their original language, look at official Police Reports quoted verbatim in Germany and Sweden and not get sucked into some ethereal super-liberal, tree-hugging La-La Land that is devoid of reality.

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6 minutes ago, keithisco said:

You are being way too condemnatory! 

There are simply far too many verifiable accounts of migrants bringing their stone-age beliefs with them, and their total disdain for western women who they see simply as dogs to be done with as they please. Dark_Grey is referring to these freeloaders and their illegal acts who have brought the whole asylum system into disrepute

You are also confusing refugees with economic migrants-the two are completely different. Also... you cannot be racist towards a group of people, or to a religion-that is not what that word means.

So lighten up a little before trying to shut down free speech that you have misinterpreted as being racist.

Hundreds of thousands refugees went through my country and no one was hurt. Except refugees, in fights that would break out between them.

Literally no one was raped, nothing was stolen and no one was killed. Some refugees died, some were born here.

 

Regarding semantics, would you kindly take a look at my post again and see that this true but tired, old 'you cannot be racist against religion' has nothing to do with what I said? I was specific. You're hypocrite. There, I was specific again. In hope you don't mind some clear text. 

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3 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said:

Hundreds of thousands refugees went through my country and no one was hurt. Except refugees, in fights that would break out between them.

Literally no one was raped, nothing was stolen and no one was killed. Some refugees died, some were born here.

 

Regarding semantics, would you kindly take a look at my post again and see that this true but tired, old 'you cannot be racist against religion' has nothing to do with what I said? I was specific. You're hypocrite. There, I was specific again. In hope you don't mind some clear text. 

...except that you used the word "hypocrite" out of context to my post, and how can I be a "hypocrite" when I apply my beliefs to all??

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