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Italy has had enough Refugees


eugenonegin
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5 minutes ago, Gingitsune said:

I mean working with Mali (to take our yesterday example) to make sure they don't flee their country of origin in the first place.

Libya is a non-state right now, no one is controlling the entire water front, let alone the entire country's territory. Europe is better make sure there is no population movement into Libya in the first place, working with countries around her..
 

To wait for Mali and Libya to get their acts together even with some foreign help may take decades. I'm looking for what the EU's NOW action should be. I still think return to departure port is the best  solution I have heard so far.

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8 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

Not really when you consider that Gaddafi was supported by the vast majority of his people and their country has been destroyed. I mean literally it is a shambles. It had nothing to do with helping the people and everything to do with getting rid of a dictator that they could not control - one who had just dropped use of the dollar. 

No to that. Our reason for involvement was humanitarian; trying to help a people overthrow a crazy violent dictator. You sound like those that don't believe we care about freedom and democracy in our foreign policy. I find that attitude too cynical and incorrect. We do care about the lives of the average Libyan and that is what drove our policy; not the usual claim of greed by the naysayers of the west.

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1 hour ago, papageorge1 said:

Are you talking about EU police not allowing them to leave Libyan waters or just stopping efforts to enter EU waters? It seems like the latter would be more internationally legal.

I believe Australia has now stopped all boats of refugees even setting sail for them. I believe they used to take them straight to an island in the Philippines so they didn't even set foot in Australia.There they were processed and returned.They soon realised Oz was not worth trying for.

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As Europe destroy`s itself It`s painfull to watch. It`s like watching a familey member kill themselves.

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2 hours ago, The Silver Thong said:

You don`t trigger me at all as I could careless. What frustrates me is you post nothing and call everying else false because you don`t like it. If I posted something that is not accurate it`s up to you to point it out. Or do you want me to debunk myself and do all the work for you. Don`t be so lazy.

If I post something not true I will say sorry and thank you. I am Canadian after all :)

What is it you want him to do? Post a news headline saying 'nothing much has changed and we're all fine, thanks for asking'? Yeah, good luck finding a news source that will go with a story like that. It's called news (not olds)  for a reason. 

2 hours ago, keithisco said:

Sixth: 95% seem to be under the age of thirty and male, not families escaping wars

Do you have any evidence for this? Beyond photos, I mean (we all know how easily a photo can be staged to look like something else). I hear this said a lot but never seen actual statistics. 

As for the rest:

1. Yes, but how do we separate the refugees from the economic migrants? 

2. Two ways of looking at this. The suspicious would say the ngos have an arrangement with traffickers. The generous would say they know how dangerous 5th those crossings are and want to pick them up ASAP to reduce casualties. 

3. Which is why it's so important that EU states follow the process to allow refugees to be appropriately distributed. Leading to... 

5. This is why the schengen zone is stupid. 

4. So arrest any captains doing this. And very severe penalties. Not sure what crime you could call it but it's endangering people's lives. 

1 hour ago, The Silver Thong said:

As Europe destroy`s itself It`s painfull to watch. It`s like watching a familey member kill themselves.

Better than watching a family member sink into paranoid delusions and insanity. 

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2 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

No to that. Our reason for involvement was humanitarian; trying to help a people overthrow a crazy violent dictator. You sound like those that don't believe we care about freedom and democracy in our foreign policy. I find that attitude too cynical and incorrect. We do care about the lives of the average Libyan and that is what drove our policy; not the usual claim of greed by the naysayers of the west.

If you know anything about US foreign policy then you'll know that they have a history of supporting brutal dictators who in some cases have killed hundreds of thousands of their own citizens with US support (have you heard of Indonesia or maybe, uh, Indonesia?). A long history of overthrowing progressive democracies to install often brutal US friendly dictators. This is all documented history. How can you try to claim it was for humanitarian purposes when they openly support brutal Saudi Arabia, who are currently massacring Yemen civilians and looking to go to war with Qatar as a means to take out Al Jazeera to prevent more civil uprisings in the region?

The UK is no different though. Or France. Hell, just look at Africa or South America or South East Asia. We support brutal regimes all over the world, as long as they toe the line.

No, it was most definitely due to Gaddafi refusing to be a western puppet. It had been an objective for a long time, with the US attacking Libya in the past, that was finally able to be realised once we had a firm military presence in the region. The same thing happened with Iraq, has been attempted in Iran recently (having worked with the Sha previously), and has happened countless times since WW2.

It's nothing short of naive to believe that our governments give a flying **** about humanitarian situations when history so clearly shows us otherwise. Hell, it was our fault that no one intervened during the Rwandan Genocide! No, it's probably closer to delusional than naive.

Edited by ExpandMyMind
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One of the things Europe needs to accept is multi-culturalism is not a good thing.

Tony Blair was big on this -wasn't it wonderful to see our capital cities thronged with diverse people, bright silks from the Far East, gay printed cottons from the West Indies, the wonderful culture and music of the East European Gypsies, the streets filled with diverse markets.

We would build mosques, temples, and print all our government literature in Mandarin, Korean, Chinese, Japanese,and Arabic etc., and have interpreters on the phones in the NHS Hospitals and Job Centres, so no one could miss out on the wonderful benefits the West could provide.

Multiculturalism is not good because it brings misogyny, fundamental religion, and I dare say an amount of resentment that the West has managed to get it's s--t together over the years into the West.

And it makes us a soft target for people who want a share of the benefits of democracy without having contributed or being prepared to change or assimilate.

 

Edited by eugeneonegin
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19 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

If you know anything about US foreign policy then you'll know that they have a history of supporting brutal dictators who in some cases have killed hundreds of thousands of their own citizens with US support (have you heard of Indonesia or maybe, uh, Indonesia?). A long history of overthrowing progressive democracies to install often brutal US friendly dictators. This is all documented history. How can you try to claim it was for humanitarian purposes when they openly support brutal Saudi Arabia, who are currently massacring Yemen civilians and looking to go to war with Qatar as a means to take out Al Jazeera to prevent more civil uprisings in the region?

The UK is no different though. Or France. Hell, just look at Africa or South America or South East Asia. We support brutal regimes all over the world, as long as they toe the line.

No, it was most definitely due to Gaddafi refusing to be a western puppet. It had been an objective for a long time, with the US attacking Libya in the past, that was finally able to be realised once we had a firm military presence in the region. The same thing happened with Iraq, has been attempted in Iran recently (having worked with the Sha previously), and has happened countless times since WW2.

It's nothing short of naive to believe that our governments give a flying **** about humanitarian situations when history so clearly shows us otherwise. Hell, it was our fault that no one intervened during the Rwandan Genocide! No, it's probably closer to delusional than naive.

This reads like 1970's World Socialist propaganda. As time has gone on there is more and more transparency and well-intentioned humanitarian efforts by the western coalition. Each individual situation is complicated and sometimes you have to choose the lesser of two evils, but I don't buy this dated version of the evil west. I trust that people like Barack Obama were not dictated to by some evil elite somewhere behind the scene.

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3 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

This reads like 1970's World Socialist propaganda. As time has gone on there is more and more transparency and well-intentioned humanitarian efforts by the western coalition. Each individual situation is complicated and sometimes you have to choose the lesser of two evils, but I don't buy this dated version of the evil west. I trust that people like Barack Obama were not dictated to by some evil elite somewhere behind the scene.

You don't have to buy into it and it's not propaganda. It's documented history and not even controversial. And how is supporting the genocide of hundreds of thousands of civilians first in the 50s, then with East Timor, in any way the 'lesser of two evils'? That's straight up apologist talk. 

'The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.'

Edited by ExpandMyMind
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1 minute ago, ExpandMyMind said:

You don't have to buy into it. It's documented history and not even controversial.

Key word there is 'history' and the world changes fast. 

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6 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

Key word there is 'history' and the world changes fast. 

Yeah. Support of Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Israel, China, the likes of Mugabe, Turkey and others show that the world and your foreign policy has really changed.

Edited by ExpandMyMind
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7 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

Yeah. Support of Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Israel, China, the likes of Mugabe, Turkey and others show that the world and your foreign policy has really changed.

Err, what is the preferred option when all details and ramifications are considered?? We choose the best option when the perfect option is not available.

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19 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

Err, what is the preferred option when all details and ramifications are considered?? We choose the best option when the perfect option is not available.

Best option for who? Definitely not the people of those countries. Rather, it's the best for US/UK 'interests' (corporate, industrial and ultimately financial interests, not the interests of the average US citizen).

Look, we'll get nowhere here. You're just espousing the usual apologist lines, making excuses for inexcusable actions. I've shown, I believe, that your original assertion of 'You sound like those that don't believe we care about freedom and democracy in our foreign policy. I find that attitude too cynical and incorrect. ' is completely misinformed and itself ultimately incorrect, as can be shown by looking at said foreign policy - which, for the record, hasn't changed - over the past 3/4 of a century. So we really have nothing left to discuss.

Edited by ExpandMyMind
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5 hours ago, Gingitsune said:

They says 40,081 as of January 29th 2017.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/refugees/welcome/milestones.asp

I was asking him about how many his town of LIKELY had taken in.  

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4 hours ago, The Silver Thong said:

As Europe destroy`s itself It`s painfull to watch. It`s like watching a familey member kill themselves.

May I reprise the 'drama queen' meme?

Edited by Likely Guy
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1 hour ago, and then said:

I was asking him about how many his town of LIKELY had taken in.  

How many has your town taken in?

Like I said before, I support alternate energy but I can't afford my own backyard windmill.

Your question was important how?

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Personally, the argument that the size of my town somehow equals the value of my opinion, is seriously wearing thin.

Edited by Likely Guy
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48 minutes ago, Likely Guy said:

How many has your town taken in?

Like I said before, I support alternate energy but I can't afford my own backyard windmill.

Your question was important how?

My point on where you live equates to your lack of being able to watch relivant video`s with eye opening information.

You want cheap energy look what I did for almost nothing. I Even went larger with 2,  700 watt panels and another battery storage unit. What is your intention on alternate energy when it comes to me. I could go off grid tommorow. I don`t get it.

Opps it`s a video a short one though

My city has taken in about 3500 and I already see the effects. Kids are already being attacked at school.

I know you cant watch video so this is a small bit you can read.

https://www.therebel.media/the_truth_about_refugees

 

Edited by The Silver Thong
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I do wish that you were erudite enough to provide something coherent in the common English,rather than provide yet another video.

Are all your opinions provided by a video, or can you throw a few sentences together to, you know, form your own opinion?

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3 minutes ago, Likely Guy said:

I do wish that you were erudite enough to provide something coherent in the common English,rather than provide yet another video.

Are all your opinions provided by a video, or can you throw a few sentences together to, you know, form your own opinion?

I posted a news clip that had a video in it, you don`t need to watch the video duh read it. WTF i even tried to make it simple for you. 

Edited by The Silver Thong
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10 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

I agree with this and it seems most people do here also. Being an American, I am not as up on the latest European wrangling but what is the reason for the current policy of not doing the above?

The Refugee Convention?

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1 minute ago, The Silver Thong said:

I posted a news clip that had a video in it, you don`t need to watch the video duh read it. WTF i even tried to make it simple for you. 

Duh,  copy and paste the part you feel pertinent. Then provide a link.

If people find it worthy (or, more importantly, you as a source) they will read it.

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8 minutes ago, Likely Guy said:

I do wish that you were erudite enough to provide something coherent in the common English,rather than provide yet another video.

Are all your opinions provided by a video, or can you throw a few sentences together to, you know, form your own opinion?

Plus you know my opinion I have stated it many many times.

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Just now, Likely Guy said:

 

Duh,  copy and paste the part you feel pertinent. Then provide a link.

If people find it worthy (or, more importantly, you as a source) they will read it.

I think you should do a bit more reading

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