Kim Jong Un Fires Off Another Missile.

[Farmer77]

37 minutes ago, Lilly said:

If we disabled the majority of his missiles how would there be that large a death toll right off the bat? Lil' Kim would be left with only conventional weapons, and keep in mind the US still has ICBMs that can reach 'Dear Leaders' country. If Lil' Kim moves on SK we flatten the few NK cities that contain his technology base. Most of North Korea is very backward and if we destroy the tech centers I suspect Lil' Kim's command and control won't be all that effective. Basically, this is going to result in people dying...and the onus falls on Lil' Kim not anyone else. Because if we don't capitulate to this dictator (someone who actually is a Hitler wannabe) then the 100s of thousands dead are very likely to be citizens of California and/or Alaska.

Kim's greatest weapons are his conventional artillery, the vast majority of which is pointed directly at Seoul. The first thing he would do is launch a barrage of near unprecedented proportions on the citizenry there. 

You might be onto something about his command and control and i think that the loss of command through a combination of defectors and confusion caused by an attack are about the only hopes of avoiding a bloodbath should we decide to strike.

Having grown up in and still having family in AK i do take the threat seriously but i think we really have to balance potential threat vs real world damage should we attack preemptively 

[RoofGardener]

Hmm.... I mostly agree with you Lilly. One thought however; has NK ever fired ANY of its missiles (including the short range ones) in anger ? E.g. at a specific target ?

It's all very well LAUNCHING missiles... but.... are they actually accurate ? Kim boasts about his long-range missiles, but have you noticed something ? They land somewhere in the Sea of Japan, but there is never a NK observation boat there to observe their landing. Possibly because the NK missile command have NO idea WHERE they are going to land, and hence no idea where to send the fishing boat.

I wonder if the same could be true of the short-range missiles. Have these EVER been fired at a target that was announced in advance ? It's all very well threatening to launch 1000 missiles at Seoul, but if they all land in a field in Jin Jun Ri 10 miles away, then they are hardly going to devestate the SK population !

Mind you, the owner of the field, or the cows, might be a bit peeved !

[Lilly]

1 hour ago, Farmer77 said:

Kim's greatest weapons are his conventional artillery, the vast majority of which is pointed directly at Seoul. The first thing he would do is launch a barrage of near unprecedented proportions on the citizenry there. 

 

Do we know where most of NK's artillery are located? IMO if the US were to decide to actually do something it would have to be something of the overwhelming force variety.

[The Caspian Hare]

His artillery has been laid in on Seoul and other cities center for decades now. They do not need much command/control to blindly rain explosive on population areas. And just the possibility of a nuclear weapon on a missile makes strike too great a risk.

Evil as he is and much as I would like to see him gone I think the best option for US might be to find rapprochement. Long ago Nixon met with Mao, a who was a thousand times the killer Kim is, and led to ultimate opening of China years later. Trump could fashion a deal with Kim if he choose, I would bet it.

[+and-then]

7 hours ago, acute said:

What's the point in decapitating the regime?

There's plenty more where he came from.

No, not really.  This regime is a family business and they are fresh out of heirs to Kim Il Sung.  Sure, they could stand someone up to lead but the people are used to worshipping the Kims.  Help the fatboy to assume room temperature and it's possible that the uncle or cousin they replace him with may be in a better mood to really negotiate.  It's worth trying.

[acute]

3 minutes ago, and then said:

No, not really.  This regime is a family business and they are fresh out of heirs to Kim Il Sung.  Sure, they could stand someone up to lead but the people are used to worshipping the Kims.  Help the fatboy to assume room temperature and it's possible that the uncle or cousin they replace him with may be in a better mood to really negotiate.  It's worth trying.

Yeah, anything's worth a try, otherwise I don't see the situation ending well.

Maybe he will be toppled by friendly fire from someone within.

[cluey]

this is not the first time this has happened.I do not agree with nuclear weapons being launched although....he is only doing this in his own country.....i believe Trumps tweets about this are not helping....and the current G20 summit that is currently taking place will be very interesting.

[RoofGardener]

1 hour ago, cluey said:

this is not the first time this has happened.I do not agree with nuclear weapons being launched although....he is only doing this in his own country.....i believe Trumps tweets about this are not helping....and the current G20 summit that is currently taking place will be very interesting.

Lets be clear on ONE thing, Cluey. 

there is NO evidence to suggest that NK is capable of mounting its atomic bombs (note...atom bombs, and NOT "nuclear weapons") on any of its missiles, nor capable of detonating them when the missile reaches it's "target". 

also... there is no evidence that NK long-range missiles are even capable of being aimed against a specific target. (unless you consider "The Sea of Japan" as being a specific target). 

North Korea may have thousands of artillary pieces, and - in theory - they could wreak havoc against the city of Seoul. 

But they could only fire a dozen times before being  wiped out by SK counter-battery fire. And immediately following that, SK would invade NK, and NK would be crushed, and the reign of the "Kims" ended. For all time. 

It may seem harsh, but the deaths of a few hundred thousand South Koreans might be worth it, in order to save the lives of MILLIONS of South Koreans in 10 years time. 

 

[cluey]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_weapon

[Astra.]

The mind works in such odd ways.... I just had an image of the little fat one being tied down to one of his own missiles, then being shot far off into space, with a nuclear war head attached.

[AnchorSteam]

So, the N'orks fired another one... and it went "plunk", again.

 

Just curious; if they ever actually hit anything, would the thread have to go on the Weird News section? 

[Lilly]

The North Koreans (currently) aren't trying to 'hit' anything. They're testing the missiles to achieve long range distance and to gather flight data...data that can be used for when they decide to hit something. And, they're getting better at this quickly (not a good thing).

[Lilly]

And Lil' Kim is at it again: http://abcnews.go.com/International/north-korea-test-icbm-early-wednesday-night-us/story?id=48871681

[Lilly]

And Kimmy has fired off yet another one: http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/28/politics/north-korea-missile-test/

Speculation is that NK will be capable of firing a nuclear ICBM by early 2018 (as in 6-8 months from now).

[+susieice]

Just saw this. Yep. It flew for 45 minutes and landed off the coast of Japan again.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/28/north-korea-appears-have-fired-missile-japanese-media-reports/

[Astra.]

The little creep just wont stop will he...the sooner the world sees an end to this pest....all the better.

[LV-426]

And this is North Korea's rhetoric:

North Korea says missile test shows all US within range

"North Korea has hailed as a success its latest test of an intercontinental ballistic missile describing it as a "stern warning" for the US.

North Korean leader Kim Jong-un said the test proved that the entire US was within striking range, state media reported."

BS, most likely, but seriously... what exactly is Kim Jong-un expecting the US response to be if he keeps baiting the proverbial bear? It's one thing defying international will on nuclear proliferation, but constantly threatening another nation that could crush you is insane. Personally, I foresee a military response before the end of the year.

[Astra.]

2 minutes ago, LV-426 said:

And this is North Korea's rhetoric:

North Korea says missile test shows all US within range

"North Korea has hailed as a success its latest test of an intercontinental ballistic missile describing it as a "stern warning" for the US.

North Korean leader Kim Jong-un said the test proved that the entire US was within striking range, state media reported."

BS, most likely, but seriously... what exactly is Kim Jong-un expecting the US response to be if he keeps baiting the proverbial bear? It's one thing defying international will on nuclear proliferation, but constantly threatening another nation that could crush you is insane. Personally, I foresee a military response before the end of the year.

bold; Yes, the way things are going it's highly likely. This is obviously what Jong-un wants.

[+and-then]

3 hours ago, Astra. said:

bold; Yes, the way things are going it's highly likely. This is obviously what Jong-un wants.

If he does, he must really be insane.  He has to know he will die.  OTOH, he may just be acting on behalf of Xi and pushing us to feel the need to concede something to China for their "help".  I suspect that if we began massing invasion troops and ships in the Pacific near Japan, we might see China become more interested in helping defuse the situation.  I think we should be evacuating noncritical U.S. personnel from SK as a sign of our imminent planning.  Between the massed air power of SK and our land based bombers and fighters as well as the hundreds of attack aircraft off 3 carriers, his ability to control the battle space would be pretty limited after a short while.  That said, I still wouldn't want to be anywhere near Seoul when this thing begins. I believe he would be willing to nuke Seoul or use any other WMD he has at the outset of hostilities.  I also believe that China and Russia are poised to move into NK and steal land as soon as it starts.  Imagine NK as Syria in a very compressed space of time.

[Gromdor]

Over 20 million people living in rocket/artillery range in South Korea being targeted by 8-12 thousand entrenched pieces of artillery.  Kim doesn't need the nuke to do mass carnage. 

Even if we didn't care about the populace, the worlds economy will suffer.  And since we are part of the world, out economy would suffer as well.

It's the main reason why North Korea has been able to be like it is without us trying another "regime change".

[RAyMO]

I found this interesting - it's apparently a quote from the North Korean News agency:

-----

The test-launch sent “a grave warning to the US” that it “would not go scot-free if it dares provoke” the North, Pyongyang’s official news agency, KCNA, said. 

“If the Yankees brandish the nuclear stick on this land again despite our repeated warnings, we will clearly teach them manners,” KCNA warned.

The news agency described Pyongyang’s weapons programs as a “precious strategic asset that cannot be bartered for anything” and an indication of the country’s “tremendous might”.

------

The bit I bolded above strikes me as strange to include - unless that is the true message they are trying to get out - via reverse psychology.

I.e.they want to see what they can get in negotiations.

btw I am not sugesting such should be done just pointing out the above thought.

Edited July 29, 2017 by RAyMO

[RoofGardener]

That's a VERY interesting observation RAyMO !

Along similar lines, perhaps we're totally misunderstanding the purpose of these missile tests ? 

Perhaps NK is actually DISARMING... just... very slowly, and one missile at a time ?  

[Lilly]

Here are the US targets that NK desires to nuke: http://www.businessinsider.com/north-korea-likely-nuclear-targets-us-icbm-2017-7

Great...so do we just wait until Kimmy toasts one of these locations? None of this makes me feel very good.

[The Silver Thong]

He won't do it as it would be suicide, he's just chest pounding. China and Russia really have to deal with this guy. If we take action such as a preemptive strike. On NK we could be in for more than we bargained for.   Not from NK 

[stevewinn]

16 hours ago, The Silver Thong said:

He won't do it as it would be suicide, he's just chest pounding. China and Russia really have to deal with this guy. If we take action such as a preemptive strike. On NK we could be in for more than we bargained for.   Not from NK 

Russia and China are probably pleased with Kim. because he's tying up US resources. Russia increasing their military, China doing the same. Between the three of them Russia, China & N.Korea must be stretching the US, and we can see this today the USA is being contested in all areas Land, Air, Sea, Space and Cyberspace. by all three mentioned. seriously worrying times.