Is there a center of the universe?

[Harte]

The something else is the question.

Obviously, whatever light is, it's not BOTH wave AND particle.

But that's what the evidence shows, and the model built upon it works well enough that you can post your thoughts here using it.

Harte

[Will Due]

1 hour ago, Harte said:

The something else is the question.

Obviously, whatever light is, it's not BOTH wave AND particle.

But that's what the evidence shows, and the model built upon it works well enough that you can post your thoughts here using it.

Harte

What follows is a quote from (that's right) the Urantia Book. Don't forget, it's utter BS so don't waste your time reading it.

After all, the UB was written by beings from other worlds in 1934 to say hello. And to let us know that they are not ignoring us earthlings so to give us a little juice to drink for instruction, here's something about wave energy to hold your fancy while later on and at the same time we present you the reality that that dude from Nazareth everyone wants to mock and make fun of, he created it all. Particles, waves and you to wonder about it. Lol.

 

Quote

Wave-Energy Manifestations

42:5.1

In the superuniverse of Orvonton there are one hundred octaves of wave energy. Of these one hundred groups of energy manifestations, sixty-four are wholly or partially recognized on Urantia. The sun’s rays constitute four octaves in the superuniverse scale, the visible rays embracing a single octave, number forty-six in this series. The ultraviolet group comes next, while ten octaves up are the X rays, followed by the gamma rays of radium. Thirty-two octaves above the visible light of the sun are the outer-space energy rays so frequently commingled with their associated highly energized minute particles of matter. Next downward from visible sunlight appear the infrared rays, and thirty octaves below are the radio transmission group.

42:5.2

Wavelike energy manifestations—from the standpoint of twentieth-century Urantia scientific enlightenment—may be classified into the following ten groups:

42:5.3

1. Infraultimatonic rays—the borderland revolutions of ultimatons as they begin to assume definite form. This is the first stage of emergent energy in which wavelike phenomena can be detected and measured.

42:5.4

2. Ultimatonic rays. The assembly of energy into the minute spheres of the ultimatons occasions vibrations in the content of space which are discernible and measurable. And long before physicists ever discover the ultimaton, they will undoubtedly detect the phenomena of these rays as they shower in upon Urantia. These short and powerful rays represent the initial activity of the ultimatons as they are slowed down to that point where they veer towards the electronic organization of matter. As the ultimatons aggregate into electrons, condensation occurs with a consequent storage of energy.

475

3. The short space rays. These are the shortest of all purely electronic vibrations and represent the preatomic stage of this form of matter. These rays require extraordinarily high or low temperatures for their production. There are two sorts of these space rays: one attendant upon the birth of atoms and the other indicative of atomic disruption. They emanate in the largest quantities from the densest plane of the superuniverse, the Milky Way, which is also the densest plane of the outer universes.

42:5.6

4. The electronic stage. This stage of energy is the basis of all materialization in the seven superuniverses. When electrons pass from higher to lower energy levels of orbital revolution, quanta are always given off. Orbital shifting of electrons results in the ejection or the absorption of very definite and uniform measurable particles of light-energy, while the individual electron always gives up a particle of light-energy when subjected to collision. Wavelike energy manifestations also attend upon the performances of the positive bodies and the other members of the electronic stage.

42:5.7

5. Gamma rays—those emanations which characterize the spontaneous dissociation of atomic matter. The best illustration of this form of electronic activity is in the phenomena associated with radium disintegration.

42:5.8

6. The X-ray group. The next step in the slowing down of the electron yields the various forms of solar X rays together with artificially generated X rays. The electronic charge creates an electric field; movement gives rise to an electric current; the current produces a magnetic field. When an electron is suddenly stopped, the resultant electromagnetic commotion produces the X ray; the X ray is that disturbance. The solar X rays are identical with those which are mechanically generated for exploring the interior of the human body except that they are a trifle longer.

42:5.9

7. The ultraviolet or chemical rays of sunlight and the various mechanical productions.

42:5.10

8. The white light—the whole visible light of the suns.

42:5.11

9. Infrared rays—the slowing down of electronic activity still nearer the stage of appreciable heat.

42:5.12

10. Hertzian waves—those energies utilized on Urantia for broadcasting.

42:5.13

Of all these ten phases of wavelike energy activity, the human eye can react to just one octave, the whole light of ordinary sunlight.

42:5.14

The so-called ether is merely a collective name to designate a group of force and energy activities occurring in space. Ultimatons, electrons, and other mass aggregations of energy are uniform particles of matter, and in their transit through space they really proceed in direct lines. Light and all other forms of recognizable energy manifestations consist of a succession of definite energy particles which proceed in direct lines except as modified by gravity and other intervening forces. That these processions of energy particles appear as wave phenomena when subjected to certain observations is due to the resistance of the undifferentiated force blanket of all space, the hypothetical ether, and to the intergravity tension of the associated aggregations of matter. The spacing of the particle-intervals of matter, together with the initial velocity of the energy beams, establishes the undulatory appearance of many forms of energy-matter.

476

The excitation of the content of space produces a wavelike reaction to the passage of rapidly moving particles of matter, just as the passage of a ship through water initiates waves of varying amplitude and interval.

42:5.16

Primordial-force behavior does give rise to phenomena which are in many ways analogous to your postulated ether. Space is not empty; the spheres of all space whirl and plunge on through a vast ocean of outspread force-energy; neither is the space content of an atom empty. Nevertheless there is no ether, and the very absence of this hypothetical ether enables the inhabited planet to escape falling into the sun and the encircling electron to resist falling into the nucleus.

 

 

 

Edited October 19, 2017 by Will Due

[+Noteverythingisaconspiracy]

50 minutes ago, Will Due said:

Don't forget, it's utter BS so don't waste your time reading it.

Ok I won't bother to read it then. Thanks for the heads up. 

[Will Due]

1 minute ago, Noteverythingisaconspiracy said:

Ok I won't bother to read it then. Thanks for the heads up. 

Too late. You already did. 

 

 

[+Noteverythingisaconspiracy]

9 minutes ago, Will Due said:

Too late. You already did. 

I skimmed it and stopped at the mention of aliens.

Edit: Do you get some kind of bonus everytime you mention the Urantia Book ?

Edited October 19, 2017 by Noteverythingisaconspiracy

[Will Due]

1 hour ago, Noteverythingisaconspiracy said:

Do you get some kind of bonus everytime you mention the Urantia Book ?

Demerits.

 

 

[pallidin]

Everything can be moving away from everything else whilst, a long time ago, still once having had a center of origin.

In fact, whether one believes in a linear or non-linear expansion, the fact that there IS expansion presupposes that everything was in a single place at one time (pure energy, of course), when the rate of expansion was zero.

[Derek Willis]

If the UB was written in 1934, then the author - the out of-work-salesman, or whatever, sitting in his living room in a suburb of Chicago, or wherever - will have had access to the work done on quantum mechanics starting in 1905 and pretty much being completed by 1932. So, the author would have been able to do what most inventors of modern religions do, i.e. quote real science in order to give their BS an air of authority. 

[C L Palmer]

The Big Bang theory, as originally postulated, has basically been rejected by scientists. Really, it was untenable to begin with. I think as humans we want to apply our human experience to the universe, to personify it in a way. We experience birth, life, then death. Humans know a beginning and an end, so we think everything else has to as well. It doesn't. 

Quantum theory explains a lot of that. If time exists as a fourth dimension, a line of three-dimensional points extending forever forward and backward, there is no beginning or end to it. It's kind of like a string of pearls, with each pearl being the three-dimensional universe for one moment. Time acts like a movie reel, and the universe moves point by point. An infinite universe has no center, though I like the idea someone mentioned as the center not being in our three-dimensional realm much like the center of a hollow sphere isn't part of the surface. 

The interesting thing that experiments in quantum physics have proved is that objects in our physical realm can be linked through extra-dimensional means. Entanglement requires some theoretical link; if that link isn't occurring in our physical universe, it must somehow be occurring in another that interacts with our own at some level. This opens up the likelihood of String Theory, with a fifth, sixth, seventh and other dimensions, each a new axis added to reality with its own effect on physics. Now, if a person could perceive and act at that dimensionality, anything we can imagine (and much that we can't) would be possible according to those physics. Miracles to us would be simple actions to a being operating according to seventh-dimensional rules. Our entire universe and time itself would appear as a finite point. 

It really makes reality much more interesting to contemplate.

[C L Palmer]

On the Big Bang: https://www.livescience.com/49958-theory-no-big-bang.html

[Derek Willis]

10 hours ago, Noteverythingisaconspiracy said:

I skimmed it and stopped at the mention of aliens.

Do you mean you stopped after the words "In the superuniverse of Orvonton"? That's how far I got.

[+Noteverythingisaconspiracy]

1 minute ago, Derek Willis said:

Do you mean you stopped after the words "In the superuniverse of Orvonton"? That's how far I got.

Hard to pinpoint it precisely. Normally I loose interest when he mentions the Urantia Book, which is nearly every post he makes.

It is well known that there is only one book that gives you the answer to "Life, the Universe and Everything" and that answer is 42.^*

 

 

^*) If you haven't read "Hitchikers Guide to the Galaxy" that probably doesn't make much sense. 

[Derek Willis]

2 minutes ago, Noteverythingisaconspiracy said:

Hard to pinpoint it precisely. Normally I loose interest when he mentions the Urantia Book, which is nearly every post he makes.

It is well known that there is only one book that gives you the answer to "Life, the Universe and Everything" and that answer is 42.^*

If you haven't read "Hitchikers Guide to the Galaxy" that probably doesn't make much sense. 

The words I quoted are the first five...

I will have you know that I once met the late, great Douglas Adams! 

[+Noteverythingisaconspiracy]

8 minutes ago, Derek Willis said:

The words I quoted are the first five...

If you make it to the quote....... There are two paragraphs before that.

Quote

I will have you know that I once met the late, great Douglas Adams! 

Lucky you. From what I have seen he seems to have been a really nice guy.

Edited October 19, 2017 by Noteverythingisaconspiracy

[Derek Willis]

8 minutes ago, Noteverythingisaconspiracy said:

If you make it to the quote....... 

Lucky you. From what I have seen he seems to have been a really nice guy.

He was. I met him at a book fair in London in the 1990's. He was gigantic, both in height and in girth. He looked shambolic, but his self-deprecating wit hid an amazingly sharp mind. A sadly missed man who died far too young.

Edit: I see what you mean. You didn't even make it to the quote...

Edited October 19, 2017 by Derek Willis

[ArcherSage]

I don't think its possible for something finite to discover something infinite

[Harte]

10 hours ago, C L Palmer said:

The Big Bang theory, as originally postulated, has basically been rejected by scientists. Really, it was untenable to begin with. 

While it's true that the Big Bang doesn't completely explain everything other theories maintain as reality, that only means that, as a scientific theory, the BBT is somewhat incomplete.

Or that Quantum Theory is misunderstood.

Or both.

What certainly is completely false is the statement that "The Big Bang theory, as originally postulated, has basically been rejected by scientists. Really, it was untenable to begin with. "

The VAST majority of Cosmologists completely accept the BBT. Similar to the way that the VAST majority of Biologists completely accept the Theory of Evolution.

Harte

[Harte]

7 hours ago, ArcherSage said:

I don't think its possible for something finite to discover something infinite

If you mean physically, that might be a very good point.

Harte

[cluey]

 

enjoy.......

 

https://futurism.com/does-the-universe-have-a-center-2/

[Frank_Hoenedge]

lot better than my rough sketch from June

 

[I'mConvinced]

On 08/07/2017 at 11:56 PM, Will Due said:

An atom has a center, a planet has a center, a solar system has a center, a galaxy has a center and so on. 

Ok.

On 11/07/2017 at 4:05 AM, Will Due said:

It certainly does to me. I can't think of anything that has more than one center.

Alright.

In reply to the question

On 11/07/2017 at 10:49 AM, bmk1245 said:

So... Where is the center of the Universe?

You say:

On 12/07/2017 at 3:58 AM, Will Due said:

Two places.

It's at the center of everything.

And within you

So you can imagine something with two centers? Or you can't? I'mConfused.

[Will Due]

3 minutes ago, I'mConvinced said:

Ok.

Alright.

In reply to the question

You say:

So you can imagine something with two centers? Or you can't? I'mConfused.

 

Lol. I thought you were convinced?

The center of the Universe is God and he is within you, like he's within everyone.

 

 

[Black Monk]

On 19/10/2017 at 5:46 AM, pallidin said:

Everything can be moving away from everything else whilst, a long time ago, still once having had a center of origin.

In fact, whether one believes in a linear or non-linear expansion, the fact that there IS expansion presupposes that everything was in a single place at one time (pure energy, of course), when the rate of expansion was zero.

The centre of origin of the universe is everywhere. There is no single point in the universe where the universe originated. The Big Bang occurred EVERYWHERE.

[Will Due]

26 minutes ago, Black Monk said:

There is no single point in the universe where the universe originated. 

 

Ya know, I never thought about it like that. You might be right.

But there is a single point in the universe, that is its center.

Everything has a center and the Universe of universes does too.

 

 

[+Noteverythingisaconspiracy]

2 hours ago, Black Monk said:

The centre of origin of the universe is everywhere. There is no single point in the universe where the universe originated. The Big Bang occurred EVERYWHERE.

 

1 hour ago, Will Due said:

Ya know, I never thought about it like that. You might be right.

This is excatly what we have been telling you for 14 pages and you say you never thought about it until now. Are you serious Will ? Do you actually read the responses we give to you ?

1 hour ago, Will Due said:

But there is a single point in the universe, that is its center.

You keep saying that, but so far you have provided no reason why we should think that, other than you own opinion. See below.

1 hour ago, Will Due said:

Everything has a center and the Universe of universes does too.

The universe is under no obligation to follow the rules you think it should follow. What you, or anyone else for that matter, think the universe should be is of no consequence to the actual truth.