Trump son met Russian who promised damaging

[Einsteinium]

2 hours ago, and then said:

I'm noting this post and date.  I predict that when this farce is completed, Trump will still be in office and the only prosecution he or his team will be subjected to will be business related.  Let me put a hundred investigators on to your life and the same thing would happen to YOU.  This whole investigation is political and it's shameful and even dangerous.  There are people in this country who seem willing to ignite a war with Russia to remove him from office.  It is insanity.  And if you're going to ride the anti-Trump troop train, at least get the basic lies straight.  The emails that were published after he fell for a phishing attack, were JOHN PODESTA'S, not HRC's.  SHE well and truly knew how to clean a server.

Trump needs to be investigated, he lies too much and has far too many conflicts of interest to be trusted. A good way to force him to be somewhat honest is to investigate every aspect of everything he does. Like Reagan said, "Trust, but verify" (a stance Trump should take against Russia but sadly does not), how sad that we have a POTUS that we are forced to do this with. Trump business record PROVES that he cannot be trusted, just look at how often he bilked investors and banks to enrich himself at their expense? He would do the same to the American people unless we hold a fire over his head so hot that he does not dare to.

[+and-then]

6 minutes ago, Einsteinium said:

Trump needs to be investigated, he lies too much and has far too many conflicts of interest to be trusted. A good way to force him to be somewhat honest is to investigate every aspect of everything he does. Like Reagan said, "Trust, but verify" (a stance Trump should take against Russia but sadly does not), how sad that we have a POTUS that we are forced to do this with. Trump business record PROVES that he cannot be trusted, just look at how often he bilked investors and banks to enrich himself at their expense? He would do the same to the American people unless we hold a fire over his head so hot that he does not dare to.

And yet you posted no complaints of HRC's "issues".... why is that?  BTW, Mueller could find evidence that he robbed a bank and shot the sheriff (but didn't kill the deputy) and he STILL could not be arrested and indicted until he is a private citizen again.  An impeachment is a POLITICAL ACT.

[Dark_Grey]

16 minutes ago, Einsteinium said:

Trump needs to be investigated, he lies too much and has far too many conflicts of interest to be trusted. A good way to force him to be somewhat honest is to investigate every aspect of everything he does.

What do you think 2016 was about? Hell, everything he does is still being investigated. Any little, tiny kernel of Trump corruption will be blasted on a 24/7 news cycle because, as CNN vehemently agrees, it's "good for ratings".

If you don't see the stories, what does that imply? Either Trump's too good at covering his tracks, the investigator's aren't very good at finding evidence or maybe there isn't any corruption at all?

[RoofGardener]

30 minutes ago, Einsteinium said:

Neither, they both are terrible at keeping data safe.

http://money.cnn.com/2017/06/19/technology/voter-data-leaked-online-gop/index.html

 

The two situations are VERY different, Einsteinium. The DNC was directly attacked, and its shields failed. Data was extracted from their servers, and published. 

The RNC was never breached. No Republican owned data was compromised. What happened was a contractor - who was supposed to be doing data analysis for them on a copy of the US Voter Registration database - accidentally uploaded it into an unprotected cloud server. This happened OUTSIDE of the RNC network. So far as anyone knows, no data was actually downloaded. Nobody had time to find it. The weakness was detected by a cyber-security firm, and plugged within 48 hours of the data being exposed.

Despite CNN's attempts to imply that the contractor in question was part of the Republican organisation, it was not. It was just a 3rd party contractor, and the RNC severed their relationship with them immediately that the exposure was detected. 

[ExpandMyMind]

51 minutes ago, OverSword said:

Was this a private Russian citizen or a member of the Russian government?  That is really the key to this story having substance IMO.  If it was a private citizen then it's a non-story because there can be no governmental collusion. 

The lawyer was obviously an intermediary. 

Look, what a lot of people aren't getting here is that this isn't just Trump Jr finally remembering this happened and then deciding to volunteer the information. This was obviously discovered as part of Meuller's investigation, the NYT then gets hold of it, followed by the disgracefully pathetic excuse and suggested content of the meeting put forward by Jr, which is one of the world's worst attempts at covering a bum - all after Jr denied meeting any Russians. I mean his excuse pretty much that he was colluding to prove that Hillary was colluding or something close to that effect

2 hours ago, Agent0range said:

Wonder if this meeting was listed on their security clearance forms?  Something tells me it's not.

Along with nearly 20 other meetings.

I can't believe so many republicans buy into the idea that their government is being investigated by the FBI and probably other agencies all because . . . what? They hate Trump? To quote a wise and knowledgeable man: SO SAD!

 

[RoofGardener]

Why SHOULD Jnr have reported it ? It wasn't an official meeting. (the lawyer one, that is). It was not a meeting with a representative of the Russian government, or any State agency. Nor was Jnr a government official. 

Edited July 10, 2017 by RoofGardener

[ExpandMyMind]

7 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

Why SHOULD Jnr have reported it ? It wasn't an official meeting. (the lawyer one, that is). 

You honestly don't know the answer to that question when there is an investigation into alleged links with the Russians?

Jesus, if the Trump campaign did have anything to do with the email leaks then that exact meeting looks like a very likely candidate for any alleged conspiring.

If I was an American, I'd be asking myself exactly what might have been offered to the Russians in trade. After all, it was after this that Trump suddenly started singing the praises of Putin and Russia. 

It seems to me the right wing of the US would be happy at a Russian coup, as long as they still won the election. 

Edited July 10, 2017 by ExpandMyMind

[RoofGardener]

The investigation is into links with organs of the Russian state. The 'lawyer' case doesn't fall into that category, so there was no requirement for Trump Jnr to report it. 

[+OverSword]

7 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

The lawyer was obviously an intermediary. 

Look, what a lot of people aren't getting here is that this isn't just Trump Jr finally remembering this happened and then deciding to volunteer the information. This was obviously discovered as part of Meuller's investigation, the NYT then gets hold of it, followed by the disgracefully pathetic excuse and suggested content of the meeting put forward by Jr, which is one of the world's worst attempts at covering a bum - all after Jr denied meeting any Russians. I mean his excuse pretty much that he was colluding to prove that Hillary was colluding or something close to that effect

You don't seem to understand that not every Russian is a representative of the Russian government and that private citizen Junior is not required to report every transaction he has with other private citizens.

[ExpandMyMind]

22 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

The investigation is into links with organs of the Russian state. The 'lawyer' case doesn't fall into that category, so there was no requirement for Trump Jnr to report it. 

 

13 minutes ago, OverSword said:

You don't seem to understand that not every Russian is a representative of the Russian government and that private citizen Junior is not required to report every transaction he has with other private citizens.

Wow. I guess I've been lawyered then. 

If the lawyer was acting as an intermediary for anyone in the Russian government, which is seems likely given even what Dumber Trump said was discussed (that they somehow had damning info on Clinton), then does your argument still hold? I guess that's a job for Meuller.

Edited July 10, 2017 by ExpandMyMind

[+OverSword]

7 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

If the lawyer was acting as an intermediary for anyone in the Russian government, which is seems likely given even what Dumber Trump said was discussed (that they somehow had damning info on Clinton), then does your argument still hold? I guess that's a job for Meuller.

I do believe the intent of the meeting was to get dirt on the Clinton campaign, but it's not what you believe or even know which is applicable in a situation like this, it's what you can prove.  I don't believe anything could be proved here so this accusation is just a waste of time and only lends to the perception of a witch hunt going on targeting Trump and anyone associated with him, that in the long term really only helps Trump with the public.  That is why if they think they find something incriminating it is very important that they not leak it before pressing charges.

[RoofGardener]

15 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

.....If the lawyer was acting as an intermediary for anyone in the Russian government, which is seems likely given even what Dumber Trump said was discussed (that they somehow had damning info on Clinton), then does your argument still hold? I guess that's a job for Meuller.

Yes indeed. Except.. there is no reason to believe that she WAS. (despite what CNN, the Washington Post and the NYT keep trying to imply.. without providing any evidence).

[WoIverine]

I'd like to pose a question to our liberal posters in this thread.

What is your ultimate goal here? Trump impeachment, or possibly even WW3 with Russia? Both?

[Helen of Annoy]

2 minutes ago, WoIverine said:

I'd like to pose a question to our liberal posters in this thread.

What is your ultimate goal here? Trump impeachment, or possibly even WW3 with Russia? Both?

Who knows what liberals want, or what exactly is a 'liberal' lately. Who cares.

Regarding WWIII, looks like you're losing it. 

[Gromdor]

6 minutes ago, WoIverine said:

I'd like to pose a question to our liberal posters in this thread.

What is your ultimate goal here? Trump impeachment, or possibly even WW3 with Russia? Both?

For me it would be to restore dignity and integrity back into the office of presidency.  Not being a lackey to Russia would be nice too. 

I'd be fine with Trump if he dropped the twitter and started acting like a grown-up, liquidated his holdings instead of forcing government business his own pocket by using places like Mar-de-lago, stopped with the nepotism, stopped with the cronism, stopped trusting Russia more than American Agencies...

Eh, now that I think about it, yeah a President Pence is probably the best solution.

As for WWIII, I see bombs flying over North Korea or Iran before Russia.  ISIS will probably flare up in someplace like Indonesia, Libya, or the like.  So plenty of opportunity to proxy fight like always.

[Tatetopa]

15 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

And yet... and YET... the newspaper that ran this story did so to highlight possible collusion between the Russian state and the Trump presidential campaign. There was no MENTION of the idea that the Democrats where being funded by "the Russians" ? Why not ? Does "Russian interference with the election" only count if it is pro-Republican  ? Well, the New York Times certainly thinks so.

President Trump was probably not involved, that is a distraction.  The big issue is no matter which side the Russians backed, if they did, they  meddled in our election.  Russian interference counts whether it is Pro Republican or Pro Democrat. Free and fair elections and the peaceful transition of power are the bedrock of this country.  Hillary's foundation did seem to accept gifts from foreign nationals for favors.  That is wrong.  Democrats need to be held to the same standards. It is just as wrong if Donald Trump Jr. or Jared Kushner did it.  Morality and ethics should not be on a sliding scale based on how much you like or agree with the perpetrator. Illegal is illegal I have heard it said.

[AnchorSteam]

Hmmm, lets see here....

BBC, Fox, the Weekly standard... glad to see CNN and the NY Times aren't being used by anyone here.  This might actually be a real story! 

[Farmer77]

35 minutes ago, AnchorSteam said:

Hmmm, lets see here....

BBC, Fox, the Weekly standard... glad to see CNN and the NY Times aren't being used by anyone here.  This might actually be a real story! 

Glad you feel that way.....NYT was the first to break the story. 

 

8 hours ago, WoIverine said:

I'd like to pose a question to our liberal posters in this thread.

What is your ultimate goal here? Trump impeachment, or possibly even WW3 with Russia? Both?

Im not a liberal in the sense that im not a democrat , but clealry im in the camp of the opposition so ill jump in. 

For me the goal is the defense of our nation. From his "joke" on the campaign trail about Russians hacking HIllary to Flynn to Manafort to Sessions and now to Trump jr there has been some seriously questionable behavior coming from team trump as it relates to Russia and it deserves - wait no - our nation deserves to know that its POTUS hasnt been compromised by a foreign power. 

Going a bit further I think we all were screaming about the rule of law during the Hillary email debacle and I think the same argument applies here - oops i didnt mean to isnt really a quality defense when it comes to national security 

We've been raped over and over by oligarchical b******* for decades now. Now we have a guy in office who has no firm political stances and clearly only cares about himself and his profits/ego. Thats a terribly dangerous combination (remember the 1st amendment issue when he was first elected?) for our nation. 

 

[Farmer77]

8 hours ago, Helen of Annoy said:

Who knows what liberals want, or what exactly is a 'liberal' lately. Who cares.

Its funny you say that because ive been really wrestling with the way the political scales shift lately. What is considered a conservative today would have been a Clinton democrat 15 years ago when i was active in politics. As an example tort reform was a huge issue for conservatives , now they elected the most litigious man in America as president. 

 

[Why not]

37 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

Its funny you say that because ive been really wrestling with the way the political scales shift lately. What is considered a conservative today would have been a Clinton democrat 15 years ago when i was active in politics. As an example tort reform was a huge issue for conservatives , now they elected the most litigious man in America as president. 

 

Your exactly right. It's why a lot of people (including myself) have been pushed to the right and the Demacrates lost the working class vote.

[Tatetopa]

I am a liberal on some social issues, but I also like personal responsibility and balanced budgets.  I don't even care about impeaching President Trump.  I certainly don't want war with Russia.  That being said, the US needs to be firm fair and moderately friendly with Russia. We are not going to come out ahead on "deals" or allowing them to get away with infractions. 

I would like equality and uniform justice. I am in favor of infrastructure projects and good schools.  I prefer secure borders, but a wall won't get us that.  The number one thing I would like to see is to fulfill the promise and drain the swamp.  For the first 3-4 weeks of his campaign, I was kind of leaning toward Trump as being outside the system.  Washington is corrupt in so many ways,  Congress, major corporations, and lobbyists are wrapped up in a cozy,sleazy, insulated world.  They think of themselves as a privileged, untouchable  elites.    There are some good men and women there, but the system cripples them.   From everything I can see so far President Trump has filled the swamp with more denizens.  He is not going to do anything.

It would have been nice to have a president that cared for more than power in the case of Hilary or ego in the case of Donald Trump.  Kasich might have been the closest in the race to someone that cared about the people and about the US.  Right now, I would rather have Arnold Schwarzenegger or  Dwayne Johnson as president ,crazy as it sounds.

On the positive side, to say something nice about President Trump, Jim Mattis knows the meaning of duty and service and Rex Tillerson is actually a CEO capable of running the US government.  President Trump picked a couple of top people for his cabinet.

[Space Commander Travis]

It's amazing how much Expandmymind is still living in the Cold War when all Russkies were to be hated and feared and were all part of a vast plot to take over the world. I don't know if he has always hated and feared the Russkies this much, or whether it's, and I suspect this is probably the case, that he's clutching it as a straw to beat Trump with in the desperate hope of causing him to be removed from office. What he's hoping for after that, though, I'm not sure, as he hasn't answered my previous enquiry. 

[Space Commander Travis]

10 hours ago, WoIverine said:

I'd like to pose a question to our liberal posters in this thread.

What is your ultimate goal here? Trump impeachment, or possibly even WW3 with Russia? Both?

|That's exactly what I've been asking. I wonder if one day someone might answer.  

[Space Commander Travis]

10 hours ago, Gromdor said:

For me it would be to restore dignity and integrity back into the office of presidency.  Not being a lackey to Russia would be nice too. 

I'd be fine with Trump if he dropped the twitter and started acting like a grown-up, liquidated his holdings instead of forcing government business his own pocket by using places like Mar-de-lago, stopped with the nepotism, stopped with the cronism, stopped trusting Russia more than American Agencies...

Eh, now that I think about it, yeah a President Pence is probably the best solution.

As for WWIII, I see bombs flying over North Korea or Iran before Russia.  ISIS will probably flare up in someplace like Indonesia, Libya, or the like.  So plenty of opportunity to proxy fight like always.

So basically you're quite happy with deranged sabre-rattling, that doesn't seem to worry you at all, because at least it would be accompanied by the dignity appropriate to the office. 

[RoofGardener]

Procedures for an investigation.

Traditional system

• 1) Evidence exists that a "crime" may have been committed, therefore
• 2) Investigate the evidence. If this leads to a suspect, then investigate the suspect
• 3) Draw conclusions based on the investigation

Left-wing/liberal establishment system

• 1)DonaldTrumpDonaldTrumpDonaldTrumpDonaldTrumpDonaldTrumpDonaldTrumpDonaldTrumpDonaldTrumpDonaldTrumpIMPEACHDonaldTrumpDonaldTrumpDonaldTrumpDonaldTrumpDonaldTrumpDonaldTrumpDonaldTrumpDonaldTrumpDonaldTrumpDonaldTrumpDonaldTrumpDonaldTrumpDonaldTrumpDonaldTrump
• 2) BLACKLIVESMATERZionistFASCISTJewsRACISTSDonaldTrumpDonaldLINDASARSOURTrumpDonaldTrumpDonaldTrumpDonaldTrumpDonaldTrumpLOVELYLOVELYLOVELYPALESTINIANSDonaldTrumpDonaldTrumpDonaldTrumpDonaldTrumpDonaldTrumpDonaldTrump