Trump son met Russian who promised damaging

[ExpandMyMind]

5 minutes ago, preacherman76 said:

You do not remember correctly.

Talking about Hillary exposes the fact that most people who are outraged over fake news of Trump Russia collusion, don't really care about it. They care about their witch hunt.  

It obviously wasn't a witch hunt. Trump Jr just proved that all the accusations of Russian ties were correct. It's almost as if you're living in a world that only exists before yesterday. The denial ship has sailed, mate.

And please stop bringing up Hillary as a method of deflection. If there isn't a thread dedicated to her corruption then by all means start one.

Edited July 12, 2017 by ExpandMyMind

[Farmer77]

8 minutes ago, preacherman76 said:

You do not remember correctly.

 HOW EX-SPY CHRISTOPHER STEELE COMPILED HIS EXPLOSIVE TRUMP-RUSSIA DOSSIER The dude was initially hired by republicans to dig up dirt on trump : 

Quote

In September 2015, as the Republican primary campaign was heating up, he was hired to compile an opposition-research dossier on Donald Trump. Who wrote the check? Simpson, always secretive, won’t reveal his client’s identity. However, according to a friend who had spoken with Simpson at the time, the funding came from a “Never Trump” Republican and not directly from the campaign war chests of any of Trump’s primary opponents.

 

8 minutes ago, preacherman76 said:

Talking about Hillary exposes the fact that most people who are outraged over fake news of Trump Russia collusion, don't really care about it.  

No it doesn't. Thats basically the only tactic that ya'll have left and I get that but it really doesn't work. Trump is POTUS Hillary isnt, one being compromised by a foreign nation poses a clear and immediate danger to our nation and the other doesnt. 

They both should be prosecuted but to bring up Hillary as some sort of a defense for Trump's actions is a weak and juvenile move. 

9 minutes ago, preacherman76 said:

They care about their witch hunt.  

As Expandmymind said above the denial ship has sailed.  Trump Jr. Proved today this isnt a witch hunt, from his tweet: 

 

 Goldstone: "This is obviously very high level and sensitive information but is part of Russia and its government's support for Mr. Trump."  

 

[ExpandMyMind]

Yet more ties to Russia. It should be noted that Agalarov is the same one mentioned in the dossier earlier this year as well as mentioned in Jr's emails:

New details emerge on Moscow real estate deal that led to the Trump-Kremlin alliance

Quote

While in Moscow for the Miss Universe pageant in November 2013, Donald Trump entered into a formal business deal with Aras Agalarov, a Russian oligarch close to Vladimir Putin, to construct a Trump Tower in the Russian capital. He later assigned his son, Donald Trump Jr., to oversee the project, according to Rob Goldstone, the British publicist who arranged the controversial 2016 meeting between the younger Trump and a Kremlin-linked lawyer.

Trump has dismissed the idea he had any business deals in Russia, saying at one point last October, “I have nothing to do with Russia.”

But Goldstone’s account, provided in an extensive interview in March in New York, offers new details of the proposed Trump project that appears to have been further along than most previous reports have suggested, and even included a trip by Ivanka Trump to Moscow to identify potential sites

Quote

Trump “put Donald Jr. in charge and then Ivanka went to Moscow to look around for what the location would be,” Goldstone said. But the plans for a Trump Tower fell apart because “the economy tanked in Russia’’ after the imposition of Western sanctions, he said.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/new-details-emerge-moscow-real-estate-deal-led-trump-kremlin-alliance-190126219.html

And then Trump tried to end those very sanctions. This looks like corruption. The conclusion of the Meuller investigation cannot come fast enough.

So now the real question is: does Trump think that he actually lives in Venezuela?

Edited July 12, 2017 by ExpandMyMind

[Farmer77]

16 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

Yet more ties to Russia. It should be noted that Agalarov is the same one mentioned in the dossier earlier this year as well as mentioned in Jr's emails:

New details emerge on Moscow real estate deal that led to the Trump-Kremlin alliance

https://www.yahoo.com/news/new-details-emerge-moscow-real-estate-deal-led-trump-kremlin-alliance-190126219.html

And then Trump tried to end those very sanctions. This looks like corruption. The conclusion of the Meuller investigation cannot come fast enough.

So now the real question is: does Trump think that he actually lives in Venezuela?

Wow that really paints a picture of corruption for sure. I imagine it wont be the only one Mueller ends up finding either. 

There's a decent sized part of me that wants to gloat a little but as this is unfolding its becoming clear this situation isnt a win for anyone. 

[ExpandMyMind]

8 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

Wow that really paints a picture of corruption for sure. I imagine it wont be the only one Mueller ends up finding either. 

There's a decent sized part of me that wants to gloat a little but as this is unfolding its becoming clear this situation isnt a win for anyone. 

It's way, way worse than Nixon. I mean that sounds strange to say out loud but this is actually shocking. I just pray to god that Hillary doesn't think all this means she can try to run again. 

 

[ExpandMyMind]

How crazy is it though that people all over the internet are still buying into Jr's story about the meeting containing nothing of substance. Here's a timeline: Trump meets with known agent of Russian government after being promised damaging info on Hillary. That same day Trump begins tweeting about Hillary's emails. Later even suggesting to supporters that the Russians should hack her emails. Five days after the meetings the emails are leaked. 

[Farmer77]

Just now, ExpandMyMind said:

It's way, way worse than Nixon. I mean that sounds strange to say out loud but this is actually shocking. I just pray to god that Hillary doesn't think all this means she can try to run again. 

 

One thing which has been glossed over is the democrat party did some serious analysis and figured out why they lost, in short many Obama voters couldnt bring themselves to vote for Hillary. I dont think she'd be welcomed back by the party. 

You're right it is much worse than Nixon and watergate and I think we only know the very tip of the iceberg at this point. I really want to see Mueller dig into Trump's business plans for Cuba among other things as his decision to roll back Obama's decision to open them up for business stinks to high hell. 

[Why not]

20 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

How crazy is it though that people all over the internet are still buying into Jr's story about the meeting containing nothing of substance. Here's a timeline: Trump meets with known agent of Russian government after being promised damaging info on Hillary. That same day Trump begins tweeting about Hillary's emails. Later even suggesting to supporters that the Russians should hack her emails. Five days after the meetings the emails are leaked. 

Did I miss something? Did something come out I don't know about that ties this all togather as you say? Or are you just putting this all togather yourself?

[Lilly]

I feel the need to clear up something. In Watergate The President of the United States ordered breaking and entering and theft of information from the Democratic campaign office. This current issue just isn't comparable. Looking for dirt on the opposition party during a political campaign is something both sides do. Last time I checked Don Jr wasn't President and there was no burglary involved so this is just not Watergate level. Unless there's a lot more evidence that we're unaware of anyway.

Also, everyone seems to be missing a possible connection here, Fusion GPS.

On the first page I said this:

To clarify a bit, if the meeting was set up by Fusion GPS and it was a ploy then the cat is out of the bag so to speak:

http://www.weeklystandard.com/the-sordid-history-of-the-firm-behind-the-trump-russia-dossier/article/2006254 

These Fusion GPS folks were the ones who put together the fake Trump dossier. It would be wise to keep that in mind.

Another thing people have missed...it's not illegal to talk to representatives from other countries during an election campaign. Both sides were doing this as well. Mrs Clinton had the government of the Ukraine backing her.

 

[Farmer77]

1 minute ago, Why not said:

Did I miss something? Did something come out I don't know about that ties this all togather as you say? Or are you just putting this all togather yourself?

It doesnt take a genius to put two and two together ...as evidenced by the fact that Keith Olberman was able to do so (cant stand that guy) : Keith Olbermann links old Trump tweet to son's meeting with Russian lawyer  

You can also check Trumps Twitter timeline directly. Ive not done so myself but it does appear that the Trumpster started tweeting about Hillary emails immediately after that meeting.  

[Lilly]

7 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

 

You can also check Trumps Twitter timeline directly. Ive not done so myself but it does appear that the Trumpster started tweeting about Hillary emails immediately after that meeting.  

The thing is what came first? It could have been that the 'poo was hitting the fan' already about Mrs Clinton's emails and that might have been the very reason Don Jr and the others decided to talk to this Russian lawyer lady, cause and effect is a tricky thing. I suspect the Trump campaign had gotten wind of things and was simply turning over every stone looking for information.

[Farmer77]

7 minutes ago, Lilly said:

I feel the need to clear up something. In Watergate The President of the United States ordered breaking and entering and theft of information from the Democratic campaign office. This current issue just isn't comparable.

The president of the united states colluding with a superpower to subvert the democratic process is much much larger than Watergate. 

8 minutes ago, Lilly said:

Looking for dirt on the opposition party during a political campaign is something both sides do.

Jr. Took a meeting from someone knowing they were offering information and assistance from the Russian government. How would the Russian government have gotten dirt on the secretary of state if not through spying? Stop downplaying this this is huge. 

11 minutes ago, Lilly said:

Another thing people have missed...it's not illegal to talk to representatives from other countries during an election campaign. Both sides were doing this as well. Mrs Clinton had the government of the Ukraine backing her.

Yes it is illegal to accept contributions of any form from an outside government and yes Hillary should be prosecuted. 

It is illegal for a person to solicit a contribution to a campaign from a foreign individual or entity. To solicit:

means to ask, request, or recommend, explicitly or implicitly, that another person make a contribution, donation, transfer of funds, or otherwise provide anything of value. A solicitation is an oral or written communication that, construed as reasonably understood in the context in which it is made, contains a clear message asking, requesting, or recommending that another person make a contribution, donation, transfer of funds, or otherwise provide anything of value. A solicitation may be made directly or indirectly. The context includes the conduct of persons involved in the communication. A solicitation does not include mere statements of political support or mere guidance as to the applicability of a particular law or regulation.

 

 

[Farmer77]

7 minutes ago, Lilly said:

The thing is what came first? It could have been that the 'poo was hitting the fan' already about Mrs Clinton's emails and that might have been the very reason Don Jr and the others decided to talk to this Russian lawyer lady, Cause and effect is a tricky thing. I suspect the Trump campaign had gotten wind of things and was simply turning over every stone looking for information.

Based on this I take it you haven't read the email chain? 

You could be right about the cause and effect part but the emails to Jr. described what information was to be shared and where it was coming from. 

In all honesty I think Trump and company may have started out as just useful idiots in this scenario but their lies since have made them co-conspirators and as I said before , and as many said in the Hillary email thread, "oopsy poopsy I didnt know " isnt an excuse when speaking about national security. 

[Why not]

12 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

It doesnt take a genius to put two and two together ...as evidenced by the fact that Keith Olberman was able to do so (cant stand that guy) : Keith Olbermann links old Trump tweet to son's meeting with Russian lawyer  

You can also check Trumps Twitter timeline directly. Ive not done so myself but it does appear that the Trumpster started tweeting about Hillary emails immediately after that meeting.  

I'm not a genius, so I'm going to wait a day or two to see what else comes out. If it is true Trump Jr. Is lying about not getting any information from this woman, I will be standing right next to you screaming for their heads. I don't like Trump as a person, but I don't have the blind hatred for him that some of you all do. We'll see what else comes out.    

[Farmer77]

1 minute ago, Why not said:

I'm not a genius, so I'm going to wait a day or two to see what else comes out. If it is true Trump Jr. Is lying about not getting any information from this woman, I will be standing right next to you screaming for their heads. I don't like Trump as a person, but I don't have the blind hatred for him that some of you all do. We'll see what else comes out.    

LOL fair enough, but why does the womanhad to have provided any information for you to become upset? Doesn't the fact that they accepted the meeting knowing she was representing the Russian government and their efforts to get Trump elected stand up on its own? 

[Lilly]

Last I heard there was no proof that the Russian lady lawyer was an emissary of the Russian government? Cause and effect is indeed important in all this. Also, what help/contributions did the Trump campaign glean/gain from this Russian lawyer? It appears (last I heard) she was involved with Russian American adoptions and that's what she was looking for from the meeting.

I have to head out this morning...will try and catch the latest news on this when I get back home.

[ExpandMyMind]

55 minutes ago, Why not said:

Did I miss something? Did something come out I don't know about that ties this all togather as you say? Or are you just putting this all togather yourself?

Of course not. It's just all a big series of coincidences.

 

28 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

LOL fair enough, but why does the womanhad to have provided any information for you to become upset? Doesn't the fact that they accepted the meeting knowing she was representing the Russian government and their efforts to get Trump elected stand up on its own? 

This. 'I don't mind so much if it was just attempted collusion/espionage/treason'. There is zero logic in this stance.

Edited July 12, 2017 by ExpandMyMind

[ExpandMyMind]

39 minutes ago, Lilly said:

Last I heard there was no proof that the Russian lady lawyer was an emissary of the Russian government? Cause and effect is indeed important in all this. Also, what help/contributions did the Trump campaign glean/gain from this Russian lawyer? It appears (last I heard) she was involved with Russian American adoptions and that's what she was looking for from the meeting.

I have to head out this morning...will try and catch the latest news on this when I get back home.

Yeah, you've definitely not read the emails. The email to Trump Jr reads

Quote

“This is obviously very high level and sensitive information but is part of Russia and its government's support for Mr. Trump,” wrote Goldstone.

To which, instead of immediately contacting the FBI, he replied:

Quote

“If it's what you say I love it especially later in the summer.”

Before taking the meeting with Kushner and the lawyer.

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/341443-trump-jr-releases-email-chain-on-conversations-with-russian-sources

https://twitter.com/DonaldJTrumpJr?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author

That there be a smoking gun.

Put it this way, if a normal everyday US citizen conspired with a foreign government as a means to influence an election there is no way in hell that person wouldn't be imprisoned for treason. 

Edited July 12, 2017 by ExpandMyMind

[RoofGardener]

16 hours ago, ExpandMyMind said:

Also:

https://transition.fec.gov/pages/brochures/contrib.shtml#Foreign_Nationals

Definition of a foreign national:

Clarity on what an 'in-kind' contribution is:

https://www.fec.gov/press/resources-journalists/contributions/

This includes all kinds of contributions. Literally any contribution, including advice and information.

This is collusion and quite possibly treason.

Umm.... ExpandMyMind, neither of these refer to 'information', only goods and services. (and no, information is NOT considered a 'service'. To ban the transfer of information would surely be against the 1st amendment ANYWAY ? )

Thus far, I don't think you have found any law that Trump Jnr might have broken ?

You can forget about treason straight away; it is not treasonous to listen to information, regardless of its nature, and regardless of what use that information might be put to, and regardless whether it is an election period.

US legal definition of treason: ".. Treason against the United States shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort...."

US Liberal/Left definition of Treason: "DonaldTrumpDonaldTrumpDonaldTrumpDonaldTrumpDonaldTrumpDonaldTrumpFASCISTRACISTDonaldTrumpDonaldTrumpDonaldTrumpBLACKLIVESMATTERDonaldTrumpDonaldTrumpISLAMOPHOBIADonaldTrumpDonaldTrumpLOVELYLOVELYLOVELYPALESTINIANS...OHTHEPALESTINIANSDonaldTrumpDonaldTrumpDonaldTrumpDonaldTrumpDonaldTrumpDonaldTrump"

Edited July 12, 2017 by RoofGardener

[ExpandMyMind]

35 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

Umm.... ExpandMyMind, neither of these refer to 'information', only goods and services. (and no, information is NOT considered a 'service'. To ban the transfer of information would surely be against the 1st amendment ANYWAY ? )

Thus far, I don't think you have found any law that Trump Jnr might have broken ?

 

Quote

If, however, Mr. Hochberg imparts poll result information to you or anyone else working for your campaign, including any data or any analysis of the results, or if he uses the poll information to advise your campaign on matters such as campaign strategy or creating media messages, such poll information will constitute an in-kind contribution from Mr. Hochberg to your campaign

(Precedent for information as an in-kind contribution)

https://cg-519a459a-0ea3-42c2-b7bc-fa1143481f74.s3-us-gov-west-1.amazonaws.com/legal/aos/72021.pdf

There's no point in debating this fact since I've already told you it means to aid a campaign in any way shape or form. And how would that be against the 1st Amendment? You realise there are plenty of things that are illegal to say or show, right?

Also, let's get something straight here. No one can deny that this was an act of espionage by the Russian government. So he could be charged with knowingly aiding that act.

Also, Kushner lied about the meeting on applying for security clearance (SF-86), which is also a crime. 

 

Edited July 12, 2017 by ExpandMyMind

[RoofGardener]

There is AMPLE point in debating this "fact", because your example is of a deliberately commissioned political poll being given to a Candidate. Yes, that would be regarded as both Goods AND a service (hence an in-kind contribution). However, the hypothetical information from the Russian lawyer was of payments to the Democratic party. That is NOT a specially-commissioned political poll; it is information.

As for an act of espionage... how on earth do you come to THAT conclusion ? A foreign national offers to give information about a potentially criminal act, but then declines to do so. How is that espionage ?

US definition of espionage: ".. Espionage is the crime of spying on the federal government and/or transferring state secrets on behalf of a foreign country. ..."

US Liberal Left definition of espionage: "DonaldTrumpDonaldTrumpDonaldTrumpDonaldTrumpDonaldTrumpPALESTINIANSDonaldTrumpDonaldTrumpDonaldTrumpDonaldTrumpFASCISTRACISTZIONISTISRAELISDonaldTrumpDonaldTrumpDonaldTrumpDonaldTrumpDonaldTrumpDonaldTrumpLINDASARSOURDonaldTrumpDonaldTrumpDonaldTrumpDonaldTrumpDonaldTrump"

 

Edited July 12, 2017 by RoofGardener

[Lilly]

The United States is not in a state of war with Russia so there is no legal reason not to have spoken to the Russians. Both sides (Ds and Rs) met with people from various foreign governments including Russia. Of course Don Jr would have been interested in dirt on the Clinton campaign...Clinton's campaign people would have been equally interested in dirt on the Trump campaign. The left will say the Trump campaign's actions were horrific, but they will ignore that both sides (Ds and Rs) were rooting around for dirt on each other in the exact same manner.

Now, I recall hearing how Trump's travel ban was against the law...the left gave all sorts of reasons why that was a crime and so on and on and on and on. Guess what happened when it went to the Supreme Court. I can't wait for this current mess to go into the courts.

[ExpandMyMind]

Yeah so treason might not be applicable due to the US and Russia not being at war, so really I should be saying espionage, not treason. My bad. There's a massive difference between the two.

I love how the narrative has changed from 'FAKE NEWS' to 'there's nothing wrong with colluding'.

Also, if it does turn out that the email hack had anything to do with this meeting, which seems quite likely given the timeline of events, then that is a crime. And it's looking likely that Meuller will get to the bottom of it all.

Edited July 12, 2017 by ExpandMyMind

[RoofGardener]

It's not espionage, because Trump Jnr was not giving information away; he was receiving it. (or not, as the case may be).

Unless, of course, you are using the "Liberal Left" definition of Espionage, as per my earlier Post #150 .

[ExpandMyMind]

2 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

It's not espionage, because Trump Jnr was not giving information away; he was receiving it. (or not, as the case may be).

Unless, of course, you are using the "Liberal Left" definition of Espionage, as per my earlier Post #150 .

Well we'll see what Meuller comes up with. This undeniable act of collusion will definitely have put his investigation into overdrive.