Hypothetical Discussion: Telekinesis

[XenoFish]

Of all the "psychic" abilities out there this is one that fascinates me the most. And NO! this isn't a troll thread or intended to troll. I'd like to discuss how Telekinesis/Psychokinesis would work if it was legit. 

Edited August 6, 2017 by XenoFish

[Wickian]

Hard to say since you could theoretically come up with any number of ways to move something without touching it.  Unless your brain has some way to emit some kind of energy or force strong enough to counter gravity, then the way I can think it might work is through some kind of quantum manipulation. 

I'm not nearly read up enough on the subject to sound like I actually know what I'm talking about, but if theoretically any object has a chance of falling through a solid floor, then theoretically it should have an equal chance of moving exactly as you imagine you want it to in relation to the planet it's tethered to.  Maybe a properly focused or deluded observation of an object can trick the universe into making the improbable probable?

[XenoFish]

5 minutes ago, Wickian said:

Hard to say since you could theoretically come up with any number of ways to move something without touching it.  Unless your brain has some way to emit some kind of energy or force strong enough to counter gravity, then the way I can think it might work is through some kind of quantum manipulation. 

I'm not nearly read up enough on the subject to sound like I actually know what I'm talking about, but if theoretically any object has a chance of falling through a solid floor, then theoretically it should have an equal chance of moving exactly as you imagine you want it to in relation to the planet it's tethered to.  Maybe a properly focused or deluded observation of an object can trick the universe into making the improbable probable?

The most common answer I see is quantum physics. From my point of view it's based on a misunderstanding of the observer effect. I think it goes something like, you're thoughts function on a quantum level and that makes something move. Supposedly.

[Wickian]

I honestly can't think of any other way a brain can move something.  The brain simply isn't designed to do heavy lifting, especially from a distance without touching, and we have no organs it controls that can do so either, so probability manipulation is all I can imagine.  It's kind of like how no matter how much you might want a wrench to light up a room like a flashlight, it simply wasn't built to do that.

[Rlyeh]

With current technology we're experimenting with using brain signals to move robotic prosthetics. That could fall under some vague definition of telekinesis.

 

[papageorge1]

I believe it is real. And I believe paranormal spoon bending has occurred. The analyzed bending occurs in a different and more eloquent way than  brute force bending. Detailed analysis has shown a difference. I have seen discussions about this and I don't recall the details but it includes an energy beyond our normal physical three-dimensional observation.

[ChrLzs]

Regarding Quantum woo, for that is what it is:

Quote

 

it's based on a misunderstanding of the observer effect.

 

This.  A thousand times this!

It seems every day there's a new headline about it, with misleading claims about moving particles (it doesn't) and that it can be used for sending info at above the speed of light (no-one's yet proposed a workable method..so, it doesn't)..

And no, it most certainly *isn't* theoretically possible for one solid object to pass through another if you get all your atoms lined up coincidentally... the Pauli Exclusion principle means that, just as you expect, you need to use *immense* amounts of energy to get two atoms closer than they are.  Maybe with a rocket sled..?

Anyway, it's pretty simple - if something moves, something had to move it, either physically, or by some force (gravity/centrifugal/magnetic/electrostatic etc..).  As we can detect all of those 'movers', and as no-one has yet demonstrated unexplainable kinetic abilities of the mind, other than those from the nerve impulses moving muscles or similar (eg Riyeh's post)...  well, it's safe to assume it doesn't exist (or might as well not exist).

But hey, if we are talking quantum woo, why not some sort of interdimensional process.  I just havta think my thoughts at a spirit in another hypothetical dimension, and they.. er .. they .. umm...  they poke their finger through a wormhole and move the object.. Tada!

Or maybe higher- rather than inter- dimensional - eg we just use the 4th, 5th, 6th, whatever dimension that we can't currently detect, and somehow that does it..?

 

FTR, I was young enough (13-14) to briefly believe Uri Geller might have the power when he first started his spoon bending fraud.  But even at that age and without the Internet, it only took me a very short time to work out that he was a scammer...

[ChrLzs]

33 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

I believe it is real. And I believe paranormal spoon bending has occurred. The analyzed bending occurs in a different and more eloquent way than  brute force bending. Detailed analysis has shown a difference. I have seen discussions about this and I don't recall the details but it includes an energy beyond our normal physical three-dimensional observation.

Wow, what a handwave.  It's 'different', 'more eloquent than brute force', an 'energy beyond our normal physical 3D obs'... etc

And that detailed analysis you posted was so compelling!!!  Almost as good as the details you don't recall.

 

Thanks for adding so much to the thread, Papa.

[XenoFish]

I've read in a few places that it's supposedly due to human bioelectromagnetism. But to be fair that is a possibility, but the earth magnetic field is stronger than our own. So it dwarves our own magnetic field. 

http://guardianlv.com/2014/02/the-secret-law-of-attraction-doesnt-work-heres-proof/

[taniwha]

2 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

I've read in a few places that it's supposedly due to human bioelectromagnetism. But to be fair that is a possibility, but the earth magnetic field is stronger than our own. So it dwarves our own magnetic field. 

http://guardianlv.com/2014/02/the-secret-law-of-attraction-doesnt-work-heres-proof/

Interesting.  Could the earth be telekinetic?

[Tonite T]

12 hours ago, XenoFish said:

Of all the "psychic" abilities out there this is one that fascinates me the most. And NO! this isn't a troll thread or intended to troll. I'd like to discuss how Telekinesis/Psychokinesis would work if it was legit. 

There is something dangerous regarding PK in aviation.

Some inexplicable problems have been attributed to PK energy from passengers.

The PK energy would be triggered by the high degree of anxiety found in some passengers.

The PK energy would be causing impact to the planes' sensitive devices causing them to collapse or function erratically.

 

Edited August 7, 2017 by Tonite T
English mistakes

[XenoFish]

What is PK energy exactly? Is it bioelectromagnetic? 

 

[Tonite T]

16 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

What is PK energy exactly? Is it bioelectromagnetic? 

It s best we call it PK energy. Magnetism may be preferably used for the attractiveness ability of mind over matter.

Edited August 7, 2017 by Tonite T
Grammar

[XenoFish]

So how is your electromagnetic field stronger than the earths? 

[kartikg]

I have experienced it done on myself by a friend he made my hands lift by themselves, the feeling was similar to if you let your hand loose in a bucket of water which lifts it. He did it on two other friends. I still think he used some trick but it was an amazing experience. 

[Wes4747]

23 minutes ago, kartikg said:

I have experienced it done on myself by a friend he made my hands lift by themselves, the feeling was similar to if you let your hand loose in a bucket of water which lifts it. He did it on two other friends. I still think he used some trick but it was an amazing experience. 

Ive actually done a trick quite similar, putting pressure on your hand while you try to move it up gradually diminishing both pressures until i remove my hands and their hand would rise as if lifted.

[kartikg]

55 minutes ago, Wes4747 said:

Ive actually done a trick quite similar, putting pressure on your hand while you try to move it up gradually diminishing both pressures until i remove my hands and their hand would rise as if lifted.

hmm I remember something similar he did straighten my hands and might have applied pressure the whole thing was quick and happened in few seconds 

[Rlyeh]

3 hours ago, Tonite T said:

There is something dangerous regarding PK in aviation.

Some inexplicable problems have been attributed to PK energy from passengers.

The PK energy would be triggered by the high degree of anxiety found in some passengers.

The PK energy would be causing impact to the planes' sensitive devices causing them to collapse or function erratically.

 

I assume PK stands for psychokinesis? I'm not aware of aviation recognizing telekinesis.

[Wes4747]

3 hours ago, Tonite T said:

There is something dangerous regarding PK in aviation.

Some inexplicable problems have been attributed to PK energy from passengers.

The PK energy would be triggered by the high degree of anxiety found in some passengers.

The PK energy would be causing impact to the planes' sensitive devices causing them to collapse or function erratically.

 

I remember reading this same thing somewhere... If i wasnt at work i would find the paper. ..

[papageorge1]

11 hours ago, ChrLzs said:

Wow, what a handwave.  Thanks for adding so much to the thread, Papa.

ChrLzs, for a rare time, I actually agree with your post above. I put out a lazy post late at night. 

11 hours ago, ChrLzs said:

 'more eloquent than brute force', 

 

---

“Geller altered the lattice structure of a metal alloy in a way that cannot be duplicated. There is no present scientific explanation as to how he did this.” (This is the first research related to parapsychology conducted at a US Government facility to have been released for publication by the US Department of Defence).
Eldon Byrd (US Naval Surface Weapons Centre, Maryland – U.S.A.)

“The evidence based on metallurgical analysis of fractured surfaces (produced by Geller) indicates that a paranormal influence must have been operative in the formation of the fractures.”
Dr Wilbur Franklin (Physics Department, Kent State University – U.S.A.)

“The bends in metal objects (made by Geller) could not have been made by ordinary manual means.”
Dr Albert Ducrocq (Telemetry Laboratory, Foch Hospital Suren, France)

“The Geller method of breaking is unlike anything described in the (metallurgical) literature, from fatigue fractures at-195 degrees to brittle fractures at +600 degrees C. Why is metal bending important? Simply because we do not understand it.”
Prof. John Hasted (Professorof Physics Birkbeck College, University of London, England)

 

There are theories on how it works. 

The most serious believers of this phenomena say that it involves the focus and manipulation of chi/prana energy discussed in esoteric schools. This is a life force/vitality energy that is extradimensional (not detectable by three-dimensional physical senses and instruments). Energy transfers to where our consciousness focuses. The PK effect in normal circumstances is very slight and to detect it requires a sustained examination. At Princeton they showed how people concentrating on a random bit flipping machine can effect the results to a small but statistically significant degree. 

A theory on Telekinesis is that energy flows where our attention goes and our attention goes where our focus goes. One idea is that we all are made of the same energy, so we could simply connect with whatever we are trying to move. Another is the Chaos Theory. No matter how small our focus is, it does affect the thing somehow, and greater focus equals to greater effect.

The key here is that from Quantum Physics to Telekenisis consciousness effects physical reality. 

Edited August 7, 2017 by papageorge1

[ChrLzs]

10 hours ago, Tonite T said:

There is something dangerous regarding PK in aviation.

Some inexplicable problems have been attributed to PK energy from passengers.

The PK energy would be triggered by the high degree of anxiety found in some passengers.

The PK energy would be causing impact to the planes' sensitive devices causing them to collapse or function erratically.

 

You are making many claims.  Please supply cites.

[XenoFish]

5 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

The key here is that from Quantum Physics to Telekenisis consciousness effects physical reality. 

That's a bold claim without any backing. I'm constantly seeing the quantum physics explanation but I see nothing that proves it. Ever.

[GlitterRose]

I've had weird **** happen around me, but it's not very predictable. 

The only common element is an overabundance of stress. 

[GlitterRose]

I kind of think of it as the psyche is on overload, and something's gotta give. That's when stuff gets interesting. And you can manifest all kinds of weirdness. 

[papageorge1]

1 hour ago, XenoFish said:

That's a bold claim without any backing. I'm constantly seeing the quantum physics explanation but I see nothing that proves it. Ever.

I'm not sure what you want. No backing you say?? IMO; There is now enough quantum physics and psychic experiments that tell us consciousness effects reality in ways that doesn't make sense in materialistic paradigm for my satisfaction.