Hypothetical Discussion: Telekinesis

[GlitterRose]

1 hour ago, XenoFish said:

That's a bold claim without any backing. I'm constantly seeing the quantum physics explanation but I see nothing that proves it. Ever.

I think sometimes people just don't really understand quantum physics and they think it means something it doesn't. 

[ChrLzs]

15 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

IMO; There is now enough quantum physics and psychic experiments that tell us consciousness effects reality in ways that doesn't make sense in materialistic paradigm for my satisfaction. 

Post the very best information that you have to support that claim, in the sense of ANY everyday occurrence or observation where you think quantum effects are the cause.  Give reasons.

[XenoFish]

22 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

I'm not sure what you want. No backing you say?? IMO; There is now enough quantum physics and psychic experiments that tell us consciousness effects reality in ways that doesn't make sense in materialistic paradigm for my satisfaction. 

 

I need links to legit resources. This isn't about your satisfaction it's about getting to the bottom of how and why psychokinesis/telekinesis supposedly works.

[papageorge1]

 

10 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

I need links to legit resources. This isn't about your satisfaction it's about getting to the bottom of how and why psychokinesis/telekinesis supposedly works.

Observation often precedes understanding in science. There are only theories now on how it works. 

 

[XenoFish]

1 minute ago, papageorge1 said:

 

Observation often precedes understanding in science. There are only theories now on how it works. 

 

Then show us these theories. That is the whole point of this thread or did I type something wrong?

[papageorge1]

19 minutes ago, ChrLzs said:

Post the very best information that you have to support that claim, in the sense of ANY everyday occurrence or observation where you think quantum effects are the cause.  Give reasons.

If you notice what I said was There is now enough quantum physics and psychic experiments that tell us consciousness effects reality in ways that doesn't make sense in materialistic paradigm

I did not say I could present and explain some everyday occurrence or observation where quantum effects are the cause.

[XenoFish]

8 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

I did not say I could present and explain some everyday occurrence or observation where quantum effects are the cause.

All you have to do is site evidence that says this is true. I mean if thoughts really do influence things on the quantum level I want to see those studies.

[ChrLzs]

23 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

I need links to legit resources. This isn't about your satisfaction it's about getting to the bottom of how and why psychokinesis/telekinesis supposedly works.

Where papageorge will run into deep trouble is the bolded/italicised word..  I'm tempted to post the link/s he might try to claim are legit before he does, but then this will turn into a discussion about the fact that you can't believe everything you find on the Internet... even if the source (initially) seems impressive...

[XenoFish]

1 minute ago, ChrLzs said:

Where papageorge will run into deep trouble is the bolded/italicised word..  I'm tempted to post the link/s he might try to claim are legit before he does, but then this will turn into a discussion about the fact that you can't believe everything you find on the Internet... even if the source (initially) seems impressive...

I think the thing that get's me with claims of telekinesis is that no one can make any explanation as to how it supposedly works. I keep reading about chi or prana, but nothing as to what it actually is. Then the catch all excuse is "It's Quantum Physics".

[papageorge1]

24 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

I think the thing that get's me with claims of telekinesis is that no one can make any explanation as to how it supposedly works. I keep reading about chi or prana, but nothing as to what it actually is. Then the catch all excuse is "It's Quantum Physics".

chi and prana and Quantum Physics are usually separate subjects to me. Nobody yet can explain the detailed working of how prana/chi can cause changes in physical objects. I only gave some general concepts that might be involved in psychokinesis. 

Edited August 8, 2017 by papageorge1

[XenoFish]

1 minute ago, papageorge1 said:

chi and prana and Quantum Physics are usually separate subjects to me. Nobody yet can explain the detailed working of how prana/chi can cause changes in physical objects. I only gave some general concepts that might be involved. 

We have no evidence that chi even exist. 

[papageorge1]

Just now, XenoFish said:

We have no evidence that chi even exist. 

It is not something physical science can detect at this time. Its understanding comes from occult studies by those that claim perception and experience beyond the physical.

[XenoFish]

Just now, papageorge1 said:

It is not something physical science can detect at this time. Its understanding comes from occult studies by those that claim perception and experience beyond the physical.

And yet physical science is exploring quantum physics.

[Claire.]

8 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

I think the thing that get's me with claims of telekinesis is that no one can make any explanation as to how it supposedly works. I keep reading about chi or prana, but nothing as to what it actually is. Then the catch all excuse is "It's Quantum Physics".

The reason no one can provide an explanation for how telekinesis works is because it doesn't.

You might find this article useful.

 

[XenoFish]

Thanks Claire I've read that before but glad you shared it. The brain has no mechanism for influencing any external object because well, it's low powered 

http://gizmodo.com/could-you-charge-an-iphone-with-the-electricity-in-your-1722569935

[papageorge1]

30 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

And yet physical science is exploring quantum physics.

Or is science just seeing what little it can detect do weird things

[Claire.]

4 minutes ago, papageorge1 said:

Or is science just seeing what little it can detect do weird things

Science is not stupid. Quantum mysticism is.

There's no discussion to be had about PK. It simply is not possible.

[Claire.]

On 2017-08-06 at 6:22 PM, XenoFish said:

I'd like to discuss how Telekinesis/Psychokinesis would work if it was legit. 

It just occurred to me that there is a way to move objects by thought alone  — a brain-computer interface.

It's an invasive procedure, but has been shown to work with monkeys.

[papageorge1]

36 minutes ago, Claire. said:

Science is not stupid. Quantum mysticism is.

I haven't talked about Quantum Mysticism. Also why do you think Quantum Physics is considered mysterious to modern science.

36 minutes ago, Claire. said:

There's no discussion to be had about PK. It simply is not possible.

To quote philosopher William James: I'm  not saying it's possible; I'm saying it happens.

Did you notice what I said earlier about how PK bended metal shows different properties when compared to all other known methods of bending?

“Geller altered the lattice structure of a metal alloy in a way that cannot be duplicated. There is no present scientific explanation as to how he did this.” (This is the first research related to parapsychology conducted at a US Government facility to have been released for publication by the US Department of Defence).
Eldon Byrd (US Naval Surface Weapons Centre, Maryland – U.S.A.)

“The evidence based on metallurgical analysis of fractured surfaces (produced by Geller) indicates that a paranormal influence must have been operative in the formation of the fractures.”
Dr Wilbur Franklin (Physics Department, Kent State University – U.S.A.)

“The bends in metal objects (made by Geller) could not have been made by ordinary manual means.”
Dr Albert Ducrocq (Telemetry Laboratory, Foch Hospital Suren, France)

“The Geller method of breaking is unlike anything described in the (metallurgical) literature, from fatigue fractures at-195 degrees to brittle fractures at +600 degrees C. Why is metal bending important? Simply because we do not understand it.”
Prof. John Hasted (Professorof Physics Birkbeck College, University of London, England)

There is a certain energy required that seems to move and is not readily controlled.

Other magicians, such as James Randi, claim that spoon bending isn’t a psychic phenomenon at all, just a trick. But I had bent a spoon, and I knew it wasn’t a trick. I looked around the room and saw little children, eight or nine years old, bending large metal bars. They weren’t trying to trick anybody. They were just little kids having a good time.

Michael Crichton (Author of Jurassic Park)

 

 

I have become certain that there is a type of science denial that occurs with certain science-minded types whenever foundation shaking evidence is detected. But some move on

[Wes4747]

Been a while since i first read this, but i may have misinterpreted or misremembered. Interesting article nonetheless.

I dont have enough faith to say pk doesnt exist steadfastly, so i wont.

Love all you faithful peoples!!

https://www.wired.com/1995/04/pear

 

On either side of a display that the pilot

watches, a soft white light pulses very rapidly, calling forth a corresponding response in the visual cortex at the rear of the pilot's brain. A computer, linked to the brain by two simple electrodes, measures the strength of this brain rhythm and translates it to the controls. By suppressing the brain's response to the pulsing light, the pilot steers to the left; by enhancing it, he or she steers to the right. No one really knows how the suppressing or enhancing is done, not even the pilots. "Once I let it go and started to let it happen, instead of trying to make it happen, I got better control," marvels one of them. "It was a very Zen experience."

This quote is referencing hardcore brain connectivity affecting signals, no magic there. The article does go over random number generators, etc...

[Claire.]

1 hour ago, papageorge1 said:

I haven't talked about Quantum Mysticism. Also why do you think Quantum Physics is considered mysterious to modern science.

You did indeed enter the realm of quantum mysticism the minute you tried to relate consciousness and other 'mystical' views to the ideas of quantum mechanics. As for the various articles you posted from Uri Geller's website, those so-called studies and claims have been long dismissed by experts in pathological science. Geller is nothing more than a magician  — a trickster who was discredited a long time ago.

There is no 'foundation-shaking evidence'. In fact, there is no evidence at all. And it doesn't matter what philosopher you quote. PK does not happen.

[papageorge1]

8 minutes ago, Claire. said:

 PK does not happen.

Such certainty! I'll leave you be.

[ChrLzs]

Every papageorge link is to Uri Geller's page, and his 'recollections' - why is that?

 

Actually, I think everyone with even a half operational brain or more, knows why. 

[taniwha]

l http://www.learning-mind.com/mind-influence-physical-world/

[taniwha]

Hmmm don't know why the last post was so gigantic?