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Ozymandias

Last time God intervened in the World?

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Kismit
23 minutes ago, Ozymandias said:

I am thinking that this is directed at me and that my threads and posts are not welcome. This feeling is reinforced by your liking of posts by others who have trivialised my OP. As a new member trying to generate debate this has dented my confidence here and leaves me wondering what I should do now. 

I have not meant or intended any offence.

Yes. You are right it is aimed at your recent posts.

 

'Spirituality vs Skepticism' board guidelines

Please always respect the beliefs of other members - the bashing of specific religions, countries, races or belief systems is strictly disallowed. Several of the topics in this section cover some sensitive areas and it is important to respect the views of others; this means no flaming, no flamebaiting, no trolling and no personal attacks. We must also ask that members do not use the forums to promote or 'preach' their personal spiritual beliefs to others....

As was pointed out by another member the thread is set up to generate a negative bias toward a particular version of, 'God'.

This is in violation of the boards guidlines. Your participation in debate is apreciated when debate is not pre-set for an outcome.

18 minutes ago, Dejarma said:

Yeah.. I'll bash religion! The day religion is eradicated from this wonderful planet of mine will be (IMO) the day of our enlightenment as a race!

Religion needs bashing... That is my belief-- are you going to show me respect? We'll see

I'm going to show you respect, but I am also going to show you the Rules.

Your opinion is fine when debated on topic and without disrespecting the many posters we have here of Faith.

 

Back on topic.

If it's genuine debate you want let's start at the basics.

Define what it is you mean by God.

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Scudbuster
55 minutes ago, Ozymandias said:

Fact is, mate, 'he' obviously doesn't exist in your mind! Does that mean 'he' doesn't exist outside it? 

Didn't 'he' cause the Biblical Flood and supervise Noah in building an Ark? That effected all humanity.

Well, the evidence for this particular "flood" doesn't exist, and Noah with his arc is a fairy tale for the ages.

Now, that being said, I'm sure there were plenty of floods, calamities, etc back then that served as the basis for the core of these stories. People then embellished them and passed them on down.....and today we have these supposed "events" that many folks believe verbatim. 

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Mr Walker

 Guess that would be the giant  meteor  impact of 2022.

(oh sorry, right that hasn't happened yet.)

 Ok how about the election of donald trump as president of the USA.

That HAD to be an act of god. :) 

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Dejarma
3 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

God came to me, and as a result thousands of humans are now alive who would have died

it was YOU who saved lives.... why would they have died? by the all caring god's hand? i love the contradictions 

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Dejarma
9 minutes ago, Kismit said:

I'm going to show you respect, but I am also going to show you the Rules.

Your opinion is fine when debated on topic and without disrespecting the many posters we have here of Faith.

yeah, i know the rules= show me where i've disrespected someone?

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Mr Walker
16 minutes ago, Dejarma said:

it was YOU who saved lives.... why would they have died? by the all caring god's hand? i love the contradictions 

Take  two linear timelines. One in which god manifests to me and totally changes me and my priorities. in this timeline my wife and i donate about a million dollars over the next 40 years (approx 25% of my total income over the period)  to feed people, especially  infants and children, to provide safe water and sanitation to multiple  villages in the developing world  to educate young people and to provide start up capital for  women businesses.  In that time we provide musical instruments for kids, and wheelchairs and sporting goods. We even buy glass houses for mongolians so they can have fresh vegetables in their diet 

Now take an alternate time line, where god never manifested to me and we never did any of that.

 Measure the difference.

The difference is down to god, not to me. (  Although i had a choice in  how to respond to god's manifestation presence, teaching, empowering and mentoring of me, over those years.)  They would have died from two causes.

First nature, second, and more terribly, by the indifference of their fellow man, who could easily eliminate poverty and malnutrition in the word, but doesn't care enough to do so.  If people in the developed countries donated about 5% of their income; poverty and malnutrition could be ended in the world.

Edited by Mr Walker
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Dejarma
1 minute ago, Mr Walker said:

The difference is down to god, not to me

oh ok then

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Ozymandias
8 minutes ago, Kismit said:

Yes. You are right it is aimed at your recent posts.

 

'Spirituality vs Skepticism' board guidelines

Please always respect the beliefs of other members - the bashing of specific religions, countries, races or belief systems is strictly disallowed. Several of the topics in this section cover some sensitive areas and it is important to respect the views of others; this means no flaming, no flamebaiting, no trolling and no personal attacks. We must also ask that members do not use the forums to promote or 'preach' their personal spiritual beliefs to others....

As was pointed out by another member the thread is set up to generate a negative bias toward a particular version of, 'God'.

This is in violation of the boards guidlines. Your participation in debate is apreciated when debate is not pre-set for an outcome.

I'm going to show you respect, but I am also going to show you the Rules.

Your opinion is fine when debated on topic and without disrespecting the many posters we have here of Faith.

 

Back on topic.

If it's genuine debate you want let's start at the basics.

Define what it is you mean by God.

What I meant by God was the God of the Jewish and Christian Bible, the Old Testament. The God who made Adam and Eve, and who caused the Biblical Flood, the Plagues on Egypt and gave Moses the Ten Commandments.

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Mr Walker
2 minutes ago, Dejarma said:

oh ok then

Did you read the rest of the post. I am not sure if this comment is dismissive/sarcastic, or it you actually appreciate the effect that the appearance of god (or a strong belief in god) can make  to a person and ,through them, to many others   Did the french win their  war with the english because of joan of arc, or because of god's influence on her? 

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GlitterRose
22 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

 Guess that would be the giant  meteor  impact of 2022.

(oh sorry, right that hasn't happened yet.)

 Ok how about the election of donald trump as president of the USA.

That HAD to be an act of god. :) 

Maybe the demiurge. Lol. 

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Dejarma
8 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

Did you read the rest of the post. I am not sure if this comment is dismissive/sarcastic, or it you actually appreciate the effect that the appearance of god (or a strong belief in god) can make  to a person and ,through them, to many others   Did the french win their  war with the english because of joan of arc, or because of god's influence on her? 

All due respect but this is where folk like your good self have no empathy!

God has not appeared to me-- I do not have the privileged in site that you've been awarded...

So what do you expect me to say!?

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Mr Walker
Just now, ChaosRose said:

Maybe the demiurge. Lol. 

I know demi very well. She would never urge anyone to vote for trump :)  

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Mr Walker
22 minutes ago, Dejarma said:

All due respect but this is where folk like your good self have no empathy!

God has not appeared to me-- I do not have the privileged in site that you've been awarded...

So what do you expect me to say!?

Nothing.

I cant explain it.

I can say that i lived a happy loved and successful life for 22 years as a secular humanist atheist, because i was raised that way.  i did not want need or expect god to manifest in my life, and certainly never wanted it to.  

If god had appeared to you, would you have totally altered your life, given up smoking drinking and any form of drugs  Stopped seeking sex outside of marriage, stopped seeking personal wealth and success? Stopped a pursuit of individual wealth and power; and chosen to give away every cent you did not need to care for yourself and your family?  Would you have opened your home to the homeless for 40 years, fed clothed cared for and educated homeless adolescents in your home with no financial help?

Only you can answer this, but maybe there is no point in god manifesting to those who cannot, or will not, remake themselves as god asks them to.

I am really sorry that i cant give a better answer to a very legitimate question  I've pondered this for years. I will say that god made several things clear to me. Everything i have, from life, to my talents and skills, all my possessions and wealth,  is a gift from god.

They are not mine to do with as i will, to better myself, rather i have a duty to better and empower myself so that i can do more for others    

Second; that peace happiness joy contentment etc are the natural states for a human being. they come from  within our mind when we act in accordance with our conscience and knowledge of right and wrong

  Wealth, possessions and power are irrelevant in meeting human needs, except for the basic ones of hunger, shelter, purpose, and companionship .

Ps if i didnt feel empathy so deeply that it hurts, why would i spend my life helping others, including thousands i will never know see or meet . ?  I am privileged and fortunate That gives me a duty and responsibility to care for others. ALL humans are as one.  All humans are not just my brothers and sisters, we are actually connected parts of one whole being.

That is how I experience the world. A young person suffering in somalia means i am suffering for him or her. When a  person is raped or abused, this hurts and diminishes me as a human being.

It is not acceptable.

 I won't tolerate it for myself, and so, because all are one, i will not tolerate it for others . 

Edited by Mr Walker
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Kismit
52 minutes ago, Ozymandias said:

What I meant by God was the God of the Jewish and Christian Bible, the Old Testament. The God who made Adam and Eve, and who caused the Biblical Flood, the Plagues on Egypt and gave Moses the Ten Commandments.

So just the Judea Christian God. What about if people believe in a God that is infact based on the Judean Christian concept but don't associate themselves with a religion? Is their God an acceptable one for this debate?

 Can the acts of nature be considered acts of God which aided the people of Earth?

I'm only playing devils advocate here my God is not a beimg, nor is it involved in the affairs of humans. It is merely the substance of exsistence. I would sugest without the input of what I view as God there would be no planet, no humans, no universe. 

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Dejarma
28 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

Would you have opened your home to the homeless for 40 years, fed clothed cared for and educated homeless adolescents in your home with no financial help?

yes.. i didn't need god-- it's called: 'being human' it's in all of us as humans to help each other... so what you're saying is as a human all this would mean nothing to you without god!? Really??? if so then imo you're a weak human being.. all due respect

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Mr Walker
Just now, Dejarma said:

yes.. i didn't need god-- it's called: 'being human' it's in all of us as humans to help each other... so what you're saying is as a human all this would mean nothing to you without god!? Really??? if so then imo you're a weak human being.. all due respect

So, being human,and without a god in your life, you have done all those things?  (or will do them if you are young) You will forgo all holidays luxuries and non essentials in life to help your fellow man both in your community and on the other side of the world? 

LOL  I have always been a strong human being, even as an atheist (I think  i mentioned that i was a secular humanist  who have their own ethical principles )

God is in all human beings. You just have to access its presence and power The power of god is the true power of a human being  it is like a bionic enhancement of mind body and will.

 Anyone can live without it and even do well But add it into the mix and you  attain the full potential of a self aware being.  A human without an awareness of the presence of god is not truly fully a human being  (thats a bit tough i know, but it is like being blind or paralysed  You are human but can't use all the potential of your body and mind   You learn to cope and make do with what you are and might even feel quite proud of yourself for coping so well, but it is not the same as being whole in body and mind) 

A secular humanist cares for others as part of their principles and ethics, but one who is connected to god cares for them because we ARE all one and all a part of each other .

When you are 66 tell me what difference you have made in the world. How many lives you have saved, how many people you have educated how many people oyu have helped with health and illness  How many animals you have protected How much of the earth's environment was destroyed to maintain your lifestyle. THEN i will be able to see if your deeds match your words and whether by simply being a human being without god you were able to do all this. . How strong are your ethics and moral principles? how powerful and sustained is your will and motivation.?

 Indeed it is IN all of us to  help each other. The question then is why do some people choose to, while others do not? 

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Wes4747

There was a post here from SimplyBill that attempted to answer my question.

Simplybill, thank you. I had forgotten that part about the stiffnecks so completely its strange actually.

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Will Do
5 hours ago, Ozymandias said:

When was the last time God stuck his nose into human affairs? I do not mean interfering in one person's or a couple of people's life but did something that effected all humanity.

Why did he bother?

Why hasn't he bothered since?

1955

 

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jmccr8
2 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

Did the french win their  war with the english because of joan of arc, or because of god's influence on her? 

Pretty sure that they were praying to the same god, they just made out better and Joan was just the pep team that they executed later.

jmccr8

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Only_

There is a rescue operation going on by higher forces to save our souls trapped in a lower reality.

Edited by Be.cause
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mark66

what do you think about the nuclear threat

 

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jmccr8
1 hour ago, Be.cause said:

There is a rescue operation going on by higher forces to save our souls trapped in a lower reality.

Psst, don't eat the cake I hid the hacksaw in it.

jmccr8

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jmccr8
12 minutes ago, mark66 said:

what do you think about the nuclear threat

 

What can one say nuclear families are dysfunctional and have bad days too.

jmccr8

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Space Commander Travis

November 8, 2016. :santa: 

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jmccr8
16 minutes ago, Manfred von Dreidecker said:

November 8, 2016. :santa: 

I was there but due to a contractual agreement I'm not allowed to discuss it.:ph34r:

jmccr8

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