Can science prove or disprove "God"?

[+Hammerclaw]

6 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Not much different than a well worded affirmation.

Yes, and we all seek that, from ourselves, from others, from God. The book, The Far Pavilions, contains the most perfect of prayers:

"Lord, forgive three sins due to my human limitations. Thou art everywhere, yet I worship thee here. Thou hast no form, yet I worship thee in these forms. Thou hast no need of praise, yet I offer thee these prayers and these salutations"

 

[freetoroam]

24 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

Of course it is, none can escape that fate. I do not accept being a soulless animal whose only purpose is, like other animals, to live, breed and die. You are free to do so if you like.

I suppose it is down to how one perceives their life. I like my life and accept that i am another animal on this planet and am grateful i was given the chance to be on here, for how long i do not know,  but i will make the best of it while i can.

[Stubbly_Dooright]

1 hour ago, Sherapy said:

The area that I am speaking of as measurable is the brain, namely, what parts light up. There is the split brain experiment, and a few others that I have to get together. There is Theory of Mind, the brain as modules, if you will. 

I have often come across in various ways, that this is how the brain is made up and how it does what it does. I myself, am impressed at it. And at sometimes, feel a bit intimidated by it.  

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Of course, I am not suggesting science has  rock solid evidence against god, just that Neurobiology has a lot of interesting studies IMHO. 

Oh, I know you are not suggesting that.   And yes, various sciences and studies and such, I have come to know, has brought a lot of mysteries to light and we can see why our brains do what they do, and why some myths have been put aside because of it. 

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deeply apologize for not providing links, just limited on time and have been deacclimating from my last death journey.

I so understand.     

And to be subjective about it, I am posting my thoughts on this. My subjective opinion, and that I have come to find how I look at it, as me only and not something thing to 'lecture' of it. 

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An add too, On day 2 of the death journey, I want to add that my lady told me that god talked to her, that he was nice and she was going home, she also was on a lot of morphine and methadone, which are known to produce hallucinations. 

For me, I'm on the fence here. Or that, I will accept both things on that experience. Yeah, I could see it being hallucinations. I could also see it as she was seeing what she says she saw. It's just something I'm personally and subjectively entertaining. (Could we look at this as my version of being open minded about this?      

I have been told by a sibling, that was told by one of the nurses were there when my father passed. ( I still feel saddend, and not just with my dad, but my brother as well, how we weren't there when they passed.  ) That my father smiled before he passed. It could be in response to the nurse that was there. Or it was to something else, and that could be physically induced as well. I do entertain that it could be either one. And yes, one of them comforts me to a point and I like to think it's something that sparks to me of a 'future' with my dad. 

But, I do feel that I also do not want to be in the dark of what it also could be, and I entertain that thought too. Whether I'm comforted or have a back up philosophy to that, well, that could be. But, my point is, I'm not going to allow myself to think it has to be not physically induced because of his reaction being similar to numerous OBE's that I have observed. Yes, I would like that, but since it's not proven, it's not going to be a one hundred percent given for me, so that I remain grounded mentally and emotionally.  

1 hour ago, XenoFish said:

2 hours ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

Oh, trust me, (having worked in retail all of my adult life in varying of areas and environments) I have found that to be so true.   And the reasoning behind those situations could be varying as well. And yes, there could be physical and chemical explanations, I think. I also feel, outside influences too. 

 

Because fantasy is safer that the truth of life. That we have to make a meaning. For some its best to shut off their mind and believe the words of others, without question. 

I do feel that is true. And since I feel that is true, because I have observed that in many experiences, I feel also that I recognize the appearances and the effects of such people. I have also seen those, who seem grounded and firmly placed in what is going on, that it's not a running to a fantasy land, but that they do honestly feel it's something based on their life experiences and what they have come to find out. And that such people, do also entertain the logical fact, and want to be aware of the logical facts of it, they just also feel there are other things that they feel are not just a way of being comforted, but feel they are being guided by it. Or if put another way, they feel inspired by it. 

I guess, the reason I see this, (and not by why I have my beliefs and why I feel guided by them) but that sometimes what one feels is their truth and what is their escape and what is their inspiration, is what they need most, than to just ignore all that, and just go on in the purely logical. Sometimes, that 'escape', the 'fantasy land' the 'inspirations' is, I have found, helps guides people to create, to inspire a trend, and to help them cope. I feel, that I should note how we are all not the same, and how each of us deals with and understand and work through things is different. There are a lot who can become 'overwhelmed' by the sheer logic, and I think that might end up putting a person at risk for certain things. I feel overwhelmed many times at life. If I want to look at it without my belief and my 'escapism' (which could be my faith, books, and other such things), I could end up just giving up, and thus land somewhere not very helpful and a waste. 

Some people, I have observed, feel those with varying degrees of ADD and such, don't need drugs. But, I have found that with them, it actually helps the individuals with it, to achieve more than without it. They couldn't help being born with it, and just putting down the parents for doing this and expecting them to jump through hoops for the child with such obstacles, I feel is asking too much. 

I feel, there is so much each individual can handle, and if they need what they need to go on, I feel strongly that they should have it. 

58 minutes ago, Will Due said:

To me, the veracity in the way some feel the need to argue that God doesn't exist is proof that they know that he does. Why else be so focused on him? 

The part in bold. I don't see how that can be thought as such. I do not think talking about something, is proof of it's existence. They know to talk of him, but people talk of unicorns, the tooth fairy, the Easter bunny, and other such 'non-provable' myths, that you would be saying the same thing about them. Some one could easily think up something, and be discussed about, but it wouldn't mean it exists. 

Though, I would think inventions come from things that could be thought up, (my examples of some things that were inspired by Star Trek). But are they exactly the same to the items that were originally thought up? Well, heck, the characters and items of Star Trek don't really exist in the way we see them exist in fiction. Does that mean, by discussing their fictional state, does that mean they actually exist. And pointing out there are such individuals with the same names, there have been Enterprises, is not the same. The real items are more than likely have differences to them compared to the fictional ones. 

1 hour ago, Will Due said:

The most that can be said to relieve this confusion is to reinforce the greatest truth about God. That he is our Father and we are his sons and daughters.

It's because of this fact, which your given free will can deny if you choose, that we are able to know anything for sure. Know what is real.

I have found and felt, that it cannot be the greatest truth, because I have yet to see it being true, meaning evidence with it. I firmly believe the greatest truth has the greatest evidences. 

And again, I don't see how you deny something that is a belief. You believe, because of your own evidences. If you don't believe in God, or what you call the greatest truth, then it's not. It's not denying, it's coming to a conclusion. 

1 hour ago, Will Due said:

Remember, no father ever keeps any of his children in suspense about their standing with him for long. But until your free will rebellion against him ceases, if it exists in your soul, he is not likely to do so. He will never force anyone to change their perception about anything, against their will.

I feel that I can dispute this bit very easily. If I start with the claim that no father ever keeps any of his children in suspense (for what ever really), I would say that is not true, because I have seen fathers doing just that. Keeping their children in defense of anything. 

And those that abandon their children, I'm in the thinking, could be a great example ( not being there for his children to know he's their father ) but part of me doesn't want to go there.  

Heck, Darth Vader even brought Luke into knowing his existence when he found out, and he simply just had to tell him. And yeah, what an interesting way he did it too.  

And yeah, that is fiction, but I feel that tends to show the same examples in real life as well. 

49 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

54 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

Is not the truth of death equally as important as the truth of life? The only truth that matters is the one we hold inside ourselves. To thine own self be true.

That depend on the truth. Is it constructive or destructive. A personal truth in all its subjectiveness is expressed by the words and actions who hold it true. 

Which probably is why I hold on it being inspirational and guiding. Because how the truth can somehow mold a person. 

 

[+Hammerclaw]

6 minutes ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

 

Which probably is why I hold on it being inspirational and guiding. Because how the truth can somehow mold a person. 

 

We resolve the truth of our own existence, internally and display the results of that truth, externally.

[Stubbly_Dooright]

Just now, Hammerclaw said:

We resolve the truth of our own existence, internally and display the results of that truth, externally.

Do we all exactly do that? I feel, there has to be those, a few or more, that can't even do that. 

 

[XenoFish]

The meaning of life is the meaning you give it.

Edited August 15, 2017 by XenoFish

[+Hammerclaw]

Just now, Stubbly_Dooright said:

Do we all exactly do that? I feel, there has to be those, a few or more, that can't even do that. 

 

One can only speak for oneself. Never make the mistake of thinking you know how others speak to themselves.

[+Hammerclaw]

2 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

The meaning of life is the meaning you give it.

So is the meaning of one's own existence.

[Will Due]

Stubbly and Sheri, it's fair to not believe in God. If the circumstances of life force this perception, when in a more ideal situation the opposite would have held fast, it's my belief that the Father would grant mercy for the opportunity to reveal one's purpose in the next life. I insist that it's the case, but as you know, I've been wrong before.

This world is a mess. Especially when considering the deplorable example human parents often represent to their children. It seems to me that having been subjected to this experience, the good Father in heaven will be merciful.

 

 

[Will Due]

I have a question. 

Forget about unicorns, fairytales, Zeus and all those obviously false gods so many go there with.

But why, even without scientific evidence which will never be realized, wouldn't you believe in a fatherly, loving, personal and friendly God, as Jesus of Nazareth revealed?

"He who has seen me has seen the Father."

I know there are problems with the biblical record but there's enough there to know what needs to be known of Jesus to believe in God.

 

Edited August 15, 2017 by Will Due

[Emma_Acid]

On 13/08/2017 at 3:29 AM, simplybill said:

It will always be impossible to 'prove' the existence of spiritual things things that don't exist with material tools that do.

Fixed it for you

[nephili]

9 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

Zeus and all those obviously false gods so many go there with.

Explain the difference between the biblical god and Zeus. I'm actually glad you brought him up.

He was the god of gods with hierarchy of lesser gods below him that all did his dirty work. Each with unique personas and place in his court. Almost like the race of angels.

He even had a half mortal son.

Humanity ruined themselves to appease him and prevent his anger and jealously.

Sound familiar? How is it any different from the modern story other than the target demographic and political aim?

The biblical god and his son are not an original story. Not even close. It's a story told and rewritten for thousands of years now. It's revamped and modernized, but never really any different.

Edited August 15, 2017 by nephili

[Emma_Acid]

8 minutes ago, Will Due said:

I have a question. 

Forget about unicorns, fairytales, Zeus and all those obviously false gods so many go there with.

But why, even without scientific evidence which will never be realized, wouldn't you believe in a fatherly, loving, personal and friendly God, as Jesus of Nazareth revealed?

"He who has seen me has seen the Father."

I know there are problems with the biblical record but there's enough there to know what needs to be known of Jesus to believe in God.

 

No, why would you? I'm fine with being spiritually alone and not having everlasting life. And I see the damage organised religion does (and all religion becomes organised religion sooner or later). Society needs to get out of the habit of looking at atheists weirdly and asking whats wrong with them and switching it around on to you guys.

 

[Only_]

3 hours ago, XenoFish said:

Because fantasy is safer that the truth of life. That we have to make a meaning. For some its best to shut off their mind and believe the words of others, without question. 

What's the Truth of Life™ ?

Edited August 15, 2017 by Be.cause

[+Hammerclaw]

18 minutes ago, Emma_Acid said:

No, why would you? I'm fine with being spiritually alone and not having everlasting life. And I see the damage organised religion does (and all religion becomes organised religion sooner or later). Society needs to get out of the habit of looking at atheists weirdly and asking whats wrong with them and switching it around on to you guys.

 

I see what a life without religion does, too--we have prisons full of them. Where both sides cross the line, both atheists and believers, is when we demand others think as we do. As a believer, I think no less of you. Do you, as an atheist, think less of me?

[Will Due]

10 minutes ago, Emma_Acid said:

No, why would you? I'm fine with being spiritually alone and not having everlasting life. And I see the damage organised religion does (and all religion becomes organised religion sooner or later). Society needs to get out of the habit of looking at atheists weirdly and asking whats wrong with them and switching it around on to you guys.

 

I didn't say anything is wrong with being an atheist. I respect atheists, so long that they are respectful to me. They have the balls to call out the lies, just like Jesus did.

Of course, Jesus allowed the priests of organized religion to put him to death so that the true religion of personal spiritual experience, unhindered with doctrine, dogma and priesthood, can be practiced in isolation, in service to our fellow man and with the ruler and creator of the Universe, the very same Jesus of Nazareth. 

You can think that's weird, but the time will come when it's the norm. 

 

[Will Due]

30 minutes ago, nephili said:

He was the god of gods with hierarchy of lesser gods below him that all did his dirty work. Each with unique personas and place in his court. Almost like the race of angels.

He even had a half mortal son.

Humanity ruined themselves to appease him and prevent his anger and jealously.

The myths of the gods of Olympus had their origin in the rebel members of the corporal staff of the fallen Planetary Prince of this world. Their half mortal descendants occupied the Land of Nod where Cain went to "get a wife" thousands of years after the onset of the planetary rebellion. These people were known as the Nodites, the Nephilim.

That probably sounds weird right?

 

[XenoFish]

Please, by all means go on.

[Will Due]

7 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Please, by all means go on.

Should I go stand in the corner?

 

[XenoFish]

1 minute ago, Will Due said:

Should I go stand in the corner?

 

No. I'm waiting for the part about the rainbow unicorns that fire lasers. 

[Will Due]

9 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

No. I'm waiting for the part about the rainbow unicorns that fire lasers. 

I'll go stand in the corner.

 

[Emma_Acid]

1 hour ago, Hammerclaw said:

I see what a life without religion does, too--we have prisons full of them. Where both sides cross the line, both atheists and believers, is when we demand others think as we do. As a believer, I think no less of you. Do you, as an atheist, think less of me?

We have prisons full of people with no religion? According to a study, atheists only make up 0.2% of the US prison population, with Catholic, Protestant and Muslim making up over 80%. Or is that not your point?

My Grandpa, my favourite person in the world, was a Methodist preacher and Quaker. I absolutely do not think less of people of faith. Only people who judge atheists or who think that we're the ones who have to explain ourselves.

[Emma_Acid]

1 hour ago, Will Due said:

I didn't say anything is wrong with being an atheist. I respect atheists, so long that they are respectful to me.

I can see that my post was aggressive. I wasn't asking for you to be picked on. I was asking for a time when atheists don't have to justify their non-belief. Why the question isn't "why don't you believe" but "why do you".

[XenoFish]

Well from what I can tell is that when you ask believers why the believe, you end up with a mixed bag. Just check out my sell it to me thread in the spirituality section.

[Will Due]

2 minutes ago, Emma_Acid said:

I can see that my post was aggressive. I wasn't asking for you to be picked on. I was asking for a time when atheists don't have to justify their non-belief. Why the question isn't "why don't you believe" but "why do you".

Why do I believe? 

I couldn't sustain holding a grudge anymore. I gave up. I suddenly appreciated being alive and took the time to imagine why life is so beautiful. I garnered my faith, but I didn't know that I did. Then an occurrence happened that was (to me) a bit too coincidental not to be meant to be a meesage I could understand and immediately recognize that what I did with my mind was spiritually significant. Basically, I accepted my plight, the suffering and pain, and decided all was good enough as it is.

Since then, it's happened many times again. The common theme however has always been in response to humbling myself. Especially in regard to my duty and loyalty to my wife and kids.